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Pick Your Power Insane! - Page 10

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
May 29 2011 14:15 GMT
#2042
Scum team played fine, but you made some errors as well. Yes you were winning after Night 2, but so is every scum team with any amount of skill.

The town never had a lead on anyone and was actually about to be GG'd until GM's role claim + the Night 2 and 3 shenanigans. Inventor + Copy Cat + Bad Santa + Detectives.


Chez was already dead. Tnkted was caught once the bus driver role went public. You outted yourself with your overpressing of my role, even had Bum not shot you, you were up for lynching the next day(or Caller). Caller and Kurumi were fairly well hidden.

*The M2DT was huge, yet you didn't take a framing role or a roleblocker or assasin.
*There were a massive amount of investigative roles up for grabs, but you didn't take a godfather role
*You left GM alive. A tough call, but you should have bombed him.
*Kurumi suicided when he was well hidden
*You shot Incog, which put mud on yourself and allowed the town to refocus. Shooting Incog also narrowed down the Kavdragon lynch list, virtually outting Caller when he was well hidden. Incog dying was a turning point for the town(though really the police radio was the turning point).

Anyways, many of your points are valid though, and we relied heavily on the list-checks(mind you, of course we would, they are very OP), though other than NKVD, the other info roles were largely useless/underused. Town played as good as they needed to in a setup that ended up favoring them, mafia played well in a losing effort though.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
May 29 2011 14:17 GMT
#2043
On May 29 2011 23:12 bumatlarge wrote:
Why didn't anyone pick assasin!? looked like such a fun role, but I was already set on bad santa. Would have taken that regardless of my alignment.


Yeah, assassin combined with Ace's role would have been a huge success for the Mafia. Caller could have easily taken assassin and got away with it.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-31 00:00:57
May 31 2011 00:00 GMT
#2070
Ver, were you planning on doing a little write-up on this game? I'm always interested in hearing what you have to say.

Also, fantastic job modding the game. It's always a pleasure having a great host.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2011 11:18 GMT
#2076
A recap of the discussion in Miscellaneous/Multi-Purpose Mafia thread:

On June 11 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
Incog wrote: It always seems to me that at the endgame people focus too much on praising/trash talking other players and don't actually take the time to learn from what went on in the game.


I think it's hard when you're actually playing in a game to be able to look back and find the learning points. Each player is naturally biased to his own perception of how things went down, and it really takes an outsider (or a very experienced player) to actually break down what went on in the game, and where the improvement can take place. In PYPI I can see how the game played out, and see some of the mistakes(or good plays) that I and other players made, but I think it's hard to really take concrete lessons away from a game without talking it out with someone.

Show nested quote +
Incog wrote: Somehow we need to foster more discussion about guides/analyses/playing as town instead of thinking that these pieces are self-explanatory. In other words, I think people would learn better if there was more feedback in the process. Right now the guides are just paragraphs that people treat as some sort of museum piece instead of an improvement tool.


This is absolutely what we need. Perhaps a dedicated thread after each game breaking down the townie play(since this is what we need to improve). Mind you, this is a boatload of work, and would really take someone following the game and willing to make contributions. In PYPI I think town had some real strong points. There was little spam, plenty of townies were contributing their thoughts/ideas that it made it easy to find fairly solid townies, town stayed fairly focused and on task, and didn't get sidetracked. That being said, the sheer volume of list-checks and dt checks meant that very little meaningful scum hunting had to be done. A godfather role or a framing role would have likely had us floundering, instead of cruising to a relatively easy win.

To be clear, I completely agree that more discussion is needed at the end of the game to bring out certain talking points, hopefully with constructive criticism for specific players within the game. I enjoy constructive criticism and think it's extremely beneficial. Some of the mistakes I made during this game:

* The push for Barundar: I honestly thought this was a good Day 1 lynch, as he fit pretty much all the criteria I was looking for. Where did I go wrong? Obviously after the lynch results came in I quickly deduced that Barundar had to be town, but he easily could have been lynched due to my faulty accusation.

* Not backing Incog more: this was just silliness. I had a strong pro-town read, but had too much respect for Incogs play to be able to fully back him. Ace had successfully turned the thread, and I didn't think I could un-turn it. No need for advice here, I know where I failed and how to remedy it.

* Failing at convincing the other players GM was the mole. Yes GM was lynched, but I was as sure as I ever get that GM was the mole, yet barely got him lynched. Where did I go wrong in building my case against him? As far as I could tell it was a slam dunk, but none of the other players seemed to be swayed(other than kita, who was swayed possibly for other reasons). I did miss the Chaoser flip-flop(which was key) but the rest of my case was strong in my eyes. Did I argue too much with him, thus burying the key evidence? Did I not defend myself well enough against GM's counter attacks? Why were the other players unconvinced?

Anyways, these are the things I think about at the end of games, and think we as a group should be talking about. I'm sure we can all see where we went wrong, but not necessarily how to fix them.




On June 11 2011 17:57 Barundar wrote:
Really liking the write up Radfield, and I wish we could have more discussion about that game.
Show nested quote +
The push for Barundar: I honestly thought this was a good Day 1 lynch, as he fit pretty much all the criteria I was looking for. Where did I go wrong? Obviously after the lynch results came in I quickly deduced that Barundar had to be town, but he easily could have been lynched due to my faulty accusation.

I think you picked up on my flawed goals. On the one hand I planned on getting killed ASAP to remove my role from the game, and on the other hand I was afraid of a scum copy cat picking up my role if I died early. Because of this my play was a little too general and wishy washy, which should get called out.

I still think I did pro town stuff (limit suspect list, call out Caller), but I don't think you where all wrong.


I think my problem mainly stemmed from trying too hard for a Day 1 mafia lynch. There is very little separating mafia from town on day 1, as there is very little to contribute. Of course your play was general and your attacks weren't concrete, as there is very little solid evidence to be basing anything on. Anyways, I'm going to keep trying for Day 1 lynches, but I do realize that's not necessarily where my strength lies.

Barundar I think your play was strong from Day 2 onward. You were clear on your thoughts and motivations in the thread, and unafraid to post them. It made you very green which is an excellent trait as a townie and eventually drew a hit from the mafia.

If I could suggest an improvement it would be about your scum-team lists(of which you made a couple). These generally are not an effective tool in my eyes, because they don't really mean much. In my eyes it's much better to keep your lists of potential suspects to yourself and focus on whichever player or players are most scummy. First because your list will(or should) constantly be changing as the game progresses(I find for myself that when I don't write my suspicions down in thread, I can generally keep a more open mind about a player) and second because posting a big list of suspects allows the mafia to cherry pick from your list.

One other piece of constructive criticism that I could offer about your play is to focus less on inactive/lurking players. Many of your suspicions of players in PYPI were based on inactivity in it's various forms, while mafia rarely skirt that inactivity line and instead are around the mid-range activity level. It's fine to put some attention and pressure on inactive players, but in my mind it's more effective to focus your attention/time on the players actually posting.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 17 2011 00:32 GMT
#2085
Post it Ver, you know you want to...
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 17 2011 01:10 GMT
#2087
Well i'm sure he's a busy man, probably busier than blizzard in fact, so if it takes him a while that's cool
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