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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 01:08 GGQ wrote: [/i]I've already explained why it would be bad town play for you to steal from jackal. Even if you think that is true given how the stun gun was claimed to work how does your theory make sense? | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
Why is no one commenting on the fact that the stun gun didnt claim to work the way people are saying?? | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
This stun-gun scenario makes no sense. Why won't people address that instead???? And CubEdIn I figured it makes sense to vote Lemon instead. I just think that Jackal is mafia and wanted to leave no confusion for tomorrow. So what I'll do is this- I'm voting Lemon for now and hoping people ACTUALLY CHECK THIS STUN GUN SCENARIO. It doesn't make sense. I'm a green and you are very capable of coming to that conclusion if you check for yourself instead of trusting to posts that reference others WRONG. If i am lynched tonight when I flip green remember that we need to read into both Lemon AND Jackal. I still think what happened earlier points to Jackal. In fact even though i'm quite certain coagulation is probably green no one can be certain. CHECK THINGS don't get lazy... | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
#1 Whether or not stealing from Jackal is pro-town, anti-town or a non-tell. #2 Whether or not the events from last night imply I am scum or not. Now while I am not interested in an argument about who is right or wrong I am interested in discussing if I am scum or not. The reason i did not directly reply to that post of yours was I felt it would just lead to a 'I know better than you' argument which nobody wins. Let's address it rationally which you seem to be doing. #1 Whether or not stealing from Jackal is pro-town, anti-town or a non-tell. Point 1: People can do what they think is good for town and be wrong: Many people have pointed out that they would have stolen as well in that scenario. This doesn't make them scum for doing so. This means their opinion was a steal was necessitated in the situation. Even if we conclusively prove that stealing was anti-town that doesn't make everybody who concluded otherwise a non-green faction. Similarly I thought that stealing was pro-town (I still do) and did what I thought would help town. If it turns out I made the wrong assumption about stealing that does not imply that I'm mafia. If you need I can quote people that said they would have stolen too but i'd rather not as it has been well established and will take a long time to prove something that isn't intrinsic to the point only this situation. Point 2: I'm not taking the probability of how each scenario will play out Your logic is poor because you assume that each situation has an equal chance of playing out under each scenario. This doesn't make any sense. My labeling of good/bad etc. is a label on each scenario that is my read on how likely the scenario is to go well. You're implying a scenario I label GOOD could have a large possibility of going badly which i haven't taken into account. But in that case it is no longer GOOD. The chances for it to play out well or not are in the labels themselves. If you have a problem with how I label a scenario then attack my assessment of the scenario. Don't say i didn't assess it. Point 3: I'm ignoring the context of this game in particular What I meant is that you are just looking at some percentages without taking the context of the game into account. This is the same as the previous point. Each scenario is taken in context of THIS game, not all games. Check how the scenario's are written. If you disagree with a particular one say that. Don't say I've ignored this game for each scenario - this game is the only one I have to go on. As long as you are around, covered in scum and drawing votes your way, you'll just distract town from finding the real scum tomorrow. If someone is going to shoot you, then you thank them and look forward to seeing jackal hang the next day. This is stated in a way that ignores the context of the game. It takes into account the scumminess I have (which you claim me of not doing) but doesn't take into account other game mechanics - for instance the fact that if Jackal was red he would have a gun. Extra KP for scum. You said that then Jackal will hang the next day. So now you are ignoring the fact that this is insane mafia and he may in fact not be? Also outside of the points being made he would have an item that protects him at night if i didn't steal from him. If he is mafia and wasn't lynched then he would be immune at night. But that's outside this point... Furthermore, on the chance that you might survive (hey, you never know; it's insane mafia! look at what you are claiming now... you are a green and someone out there somewhere decided to save your ass) you would use your DT check item because you know how valuable a DT check is for town. Even if it's not from a trusted source (you)... you know you are going to die soon (most likely to a lynch the next day) so then town will know your check was true. Again here you don't take into account any other information - only the fact that if I don't die and I DT checked the information is then useful after I die. This isn't compared with any other possible outcomes. It's stated as a fact for an outcome you are for. If you aren't comparing outcomes then you are only 'for' it on impulse. Point 4: My logic is bad Compare your 'bad' situation (5) to your 'very good' one (3). The only difference between these two situations is that you have the gun in the 'very good' one. Scenario 3: I have the Gun. Town has the lynch. Basically the night passed and town gets to make the decisions - not the scum and the vig, who may or may not be green. Scenario 5: I don't have the gun. Someone else was shot. We are now down a green and have allowed the decision to be made by the scum and a vig, who may or may not be green. How are those scenario's the same? How is the only difference that I have the gun? Remember that I am working out the choices from the point of view of a green. So taking the gun out of red hands is a win for town no matter which situation. As a green I have to view owning the gun as beneficial. The question is whether or not it is a greater asset then dying. As we are listing situations whether or not I die that is already taken into account! #2 Whether or not the events from last night imply I am scum or not. Point 1: The original post is wrong And yes, it seems I was mistaken about the stun gun If you were mistaken about the gun then your earlier post based around the stun-gun now doesn't make any sense. And we can conclude you were wrong about it - go check what coag said. I can't be bothered trawling for it now but I know I am right so if you disagree go confirm please. Point 2: You're reason for the control doesn't make sense if I am red Perhaps the mafia were hoping that if annul's potato blew up the mafia shooting him, at least it would take Coagulation along with them? Ok that is possible. But if I was red i would be: #1 Taking out coagulation from the IG. If coagulation pop up green that looks good for Jackal. Why would I want that? But if I'm not red this is fine. #2 Shooting someone who I am assuming is going to die anyway from a potato? (annul) Remember that the potato has a chance to take out someone that visits AND annul. If I assume the potato is going to kill coag cos he visits I don't need to shoot annul. Point 3: You're reason for scum definitely not knowing who had the gun is wrong Why would reds possibly risk one of their members to the potato if they knew annul was going to die from Coagulation's shot? The only answer is that they didn't know, which means that the red in the IG must be the only person who didn't know that Coagulation had the gun, which is you. I don't understand what you're saying here. If we assume a red shot annul (which you did) then red risked dying to the potato REGARDLESS of whether they knew coag had the gun. Coag having the gun has nothing to do with red shooting the guy holding the potato. This makes it even less likely that red controlled coag onto annul. But coag insists he was controlled onto annul therefore either - Coag is lying - Black did the mind control But if coag is lying then he would be red and shot who red did as well. That doesn't make any sense and leads me to believe that black performed the mind control. That analysis is independent of whether I am scum and independent of knowledge of who had the gun. If black performed the mind control then they didn't know who had the gun any more than I did. So saying the mind control rests with whoever did/didn't know who had the gun is pointless. If you ask me why coagulation was mind controlled onto annul I couldn't possibly tell you. Assuming black and red don't want to work with each other they may simply have picked up on when coag outed that he had the gun and decided the game would take longer if jackal and I remained. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
Now that Bum says he can't confirm the color of the KP on annul this whole thing needs to be done again. Bum stop making mistakes goddamit!! | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 03:27 bumatlarge wrote: Where did I say that? It's reasonable to assume it was red, but black would still benefit. People gave good reasons to why only red would shoot in the IG, so it's clear they tried someway, but black would as well, even if it was just to kill annul  It's kinda fun not making sense. You guys should seen the plan I had cooked up to have one of my blues counter claim me, oh boy you guys would have been yelling at me so much. But alas, there is already enough on everyone's plate, that crucial discussion could not be wasted  Amuse me some more tackster. Bum you got voted mayor right. In previous posts you have confirmed that the shot on annul was by red. People have referenced it, people have made their minds up based on it. In fact my post was a reply where GGQ said he assumed it only because you said it! Now you're saying that it could have been either. You're the mayor with a PM circle and you don't understand why im annoyed that you can't out real information properly and stop outing things you have to correct yourself on? You said during the campaign phase you may be newish and not have the strongest scumhunting abilities but at least you're clear and can work with the PM circle. And now you come out with this? And whats with the tag line - amuse me some more? I'm a green fighting to get the mafia lynched and you're being condescending and frivolous straight after you admitted you made a mistake. Tell me i've misread something cos otherwise you're a bit of an asshole... | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
Jackals 'great' tunnel based on a plan that made no sense… coags incessant deafness and his willingness to accept confirmations that weren't real… And now bum using his position as leader to make mistakes and then laugh in the face of them… I know I can be wrong and hardly expect everyone to agree with me but the way some of these debates have gone... A lot of the people in here seem like fun and there have been some laughs, absolutely. But the way the game is being played… I'm feeling a little put off tbh. Did everyone feel this at first or what? | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
The whole 'red probably hit annul' isn't a good defense since all the recent analysis has ignored the other possibility. If you now read it all this isn't a good plan. But no one seems bothered. Good job... Apparently if I am green i should just throw my hands in the air and say well let people think what they want, this is mafia and the point is not to use logic or work anything out. Jackal thanks for letting me know my mafia play is good. That's going to be great when i turn up green. Chaoser you've been misreading a lot - when i flip green take it as a sign to pay more attention! | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 04:17 bumatlarge wrote: Like I would need to mayor to do that lol Well if I told you I could probably salvage the outcome of the IG no matter what the lynch is tack? What would you say then? If you could 'probably' salvage the outcome that means we shouldn't analyze anything, rely on real information or even try? Why didn't you say so before? We could all just stop posting and let you do everything. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 04:21 Jackal58 wrote: If you must bus bus all actions from Coag to me. Lemon has his vest but if we mislynch he wont get shot anyways. Cause he's scum. And serious as a heart attack I will have coag shoot me. Town doesn't need another fucking day of no you - no you - no you - no you. So medic protect coag. Bus from coag to me. Coag shoots me. Lynch Lemon. I am not about to go through all this bs and let scum get dt tools. But we're not going to mislynch. But that's plan B Sorry if coag shoots you and you two are bussed coag shoots himself. wtf is that? | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
So you AND coag die... You know you really need to not make any more plans ever... | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 04:28 deconduo wrote: LOLOLOL. You get mediced and coag shoots himself. Deconduo can we put this plan up as a poster in our living room? PLEEEAAAAASSSSEEEE??? | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 04:22 deconduo wrote: + Show Spoiler + 1. RebirthOfLeGenD - Sheep 2. Jackal58 - Tunnel 3. OriginalName - Sheep 4. Kenpachi - Has half a brain 5. deconduo - Has a brain 6. Kavdragon - Black 8. bumatlarge - Sheep 10. Coagulation - Tunnel 11. orgolove - Mafia 12. chaoser - Torn between sheep and mafia 13. Meapak_Ziphh - 15. kevconsim - 16. Mr. Wiggles - Has half a brain 17. CubEdIn - Has a brain 18. GGQ - Torn between sheep and mafia 19. ilovejonn - Dunno 20. Amber[LighT] - Lurking 21. BrownBear - Was lurking, dunno. 22. Lemonwalrus - Mafia 23. Rean - Has a brain 24. tnkted - Has a brain 25. Tackster - Has a brain 26. Lanaia - Has a brain 27. iGrok - Black 28. Beneather - Lurker 29. Insanious - Has a brain 30. Eiii - Sheep I'm offended. Jackal has a brain... not a human one but a brain none the less! | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
No replies? I know it's late in the day but I put in the effort... | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 04:46 BrownBear wrote: STOP TALKING ABOUT TACK JESUS CHRIST. We've pretty much decided he's gonna get lynched, all he's doing now is trying to distract us from his scumbuddies. Don't let him, focus on more important things. Is this one of your 'quality' posts? When I flip green you think I should have just said - oh well im dead, i'll be silent now? | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
Oh I know - to hit the other red in the item game and not give red an advantage. But yea that's a terrible idea. Why bother trying to stop the only team that can't really kill you. Well I suppose if they can't kill you they'll do their best to out you!! Possibly with some ITEMS!! | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 05:16 chaoser wrote: Here's the question then Tack, why would red/black even shoot at annul? He had the hot potato which blows up when people visit him. If he activates it then it's 100% chance it'll blow up. If not then it's 25% chance. Why would red/black risk it, especially black since they lost a member to D1 lynch? The only reason they would shoot at annul that I can think of is if they thought his bomb was diffused or safe right? I read it the first time no need to post it twice! I can think of a reason now that makes even more sense. If black though coag had the gun they could mind control him onto annul so red didn't win item game. That means that red can shoot annul like everyone was clamouring for anyway. BOOM | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 30 2011 05:22 bumatlarge wrote: DONT CONSIDER WHY, DONT GO INTO IT I CANT TELL YOU I KNOW. JUST SHUT UP AND DIE. Geez darm went down nice and easy, his last post made me really consider switching but I trusted my instincts and my thought process. You are making an absurd amount of posts all gearing the conversation to you, when I don't really care! Coagulation is 100% town, and all scum powers were used. We just need to try to keep him or another townie alive. I'm not even that concerned about town getting the items, just as long as mafia don't get them. They won't. This post was I give up and therefore everyone else should. Bum if you don't want to work your delicate mind anymore that's fine. But to ask others to share in that ignorance is disgraceful | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
Debating what is happening can lead to a slip. How could you possibly be against that... | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
I've worked hard as hell to try and show my innocence here. What do I have to do to see some action? The vote is 4 hours away... | ||
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