EPTMini Mafia IV
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote Nemesis On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote: @Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive. And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking. I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 21 2011 04:53 GGQ wrote: Hmm, what do you mean? Wouldn't abstaining mean it takes us longer to reach lylo? it'll take 4 deaths to reach lylo. If we lynch every day then we reach lylo after two days and two nights. If we abstain then we reach lylo after four days and four nights. Not that I'm advocating abstaining. But I'd think the problem with abstaining is that it hands the kills to the mafia instead of letting town get their turn. The problem with abstaining is that we basically let mafia have a free turn. Rather than voting, and therefore collecting vital information and discussion, no one is lynched, and we end up on day 2 being none the wiser. It's basically as if we started on day 2. Whether it postpones lylo for one night cycle is really irrelevant, as losing that vital lynch just for an extra night cycle(which won't mean anything if we don't get through that without town getting hurt), is not even an even trade. Speaking of which: Vigi's do NOT use your ability until town declares a consensus on that. We don't need a townie dead because you decided to be a "hero." Speaking of, I want people to start voting Shockkey as well as nemesis. Shockkey has barely contributed with a real post, I want to see that from him. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote: Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote Shockeyy I haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 21 2011 07:11 chaoser wrote: I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks. Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to. Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it. I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet. Did you just say this? :p I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. Again, we want to pressure people to POST, not lynch the inactives. There is a HUGE difference between those two. We want to pressure the inactives and lynch the lurkers, not lynch the inactives themselves. Remember, mafia aren't inactive, they're lurking. Inactives are those who are bored, who don't care about the game, who don't have time. Lurkers are the ones who are watching yet don't contribute. Differentiating between those will make or break it for the town. We can't just lynch all the inactives and hope for the best. As of right now, I want Shockkey to post, but am giving him time. Meanwhile there is someone who might be scum and slipped up. There's no point not pressuring the person at the very least. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
In mafia, there are two different extremes of people. Those who don't post, and those who do. The active, and the inactive. Mafia will usually end up taking either one of those extremes, either posting alot but not contributing(bill murray for instance), or not posting really at all(most lurking mafia.) There is a vital different between lurkers and inactives. Most inactives are town. Usually when people are inactive they are bored/don't have time. They didn't get a "fun" role, so just have decided to play SC2 instead of play mafia. You will NOT find mafia in the inactive category. Mafia aren't inactive, they are paying plenty of attention to the game. As you will see, they simply decide to lurk, which is different from being inactive. Lurkers are a portion of the inactives, but different in a vital way. While inactives don't pay attention to the thread, lurkers do. Lurkers just choose NOT to post because one of mafia's favorite things to do is let each day go by, while no one has said anything. Lurkers is where you will find mafia. Being inactive, while anti town, is not a "scummy" thing to do. Lurking, however is. That is where we must analyze. And that is where Nemesis strikes me as scummy. Repeats old information, went for the easy lynch, and just overall strikes me as scummy. I'm not saying by any means he's 100% scum, but we should at the VERY least pressure him. @Jackal, any concerns can be put aside by reading in the last paragraph of that post. + Show Spoiler + Don't just check the inactives, they're most likely bored townies. Don't just check big name players, most likely they're going to be framed/picked godfather. We should pick those who seem to be pro town, but fail to actually contribute. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 21 2011 11:11 LSB wrote: Firstly I'm going to point out that there probably aren't going to be any inactives this game. But the question still stands Pandain, why shouldn't we kill inactives? 99% of time mafia do not fall into the realm of inactives. We want to find lurkers, not inactives. Note I have always been ferevent about getting town talking, and this game should be no different. While we should pressure inactives to TALK, we should be VOTING lurkers. For example as of now almost everyone has given a good post with the exception of shockkey. Do you really think(given 3 mafia), that mafia are going for the "inactive" role if town always says "lynch inactives." We want to find those who seem to contribute but don't, not those who don't contribute and don't seem to either. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 21 2011 11:17 Nemesis wrote: Pandain all you did is define inactive/lurker. You still haven't answered how we can differentiate between them.You are just repeating the same points over and over again without really answering that question. The only thing that we can really do is prevent everyone from heading that way in the first place by pressuring/lynching inactives. Mafia will never go inactive if we threaten to lynch inactives. They really never do. Instead they will go "Just above" the threshhold of "contribution", while not really contributing. As for examples? Lurkers: Obviously paying attention, talking about unrelated stuff/not topic of debate, repeating same stuff(can fall under inactives too though so be careful), bad reasoning/mafia tells(wishy washy ness, other stuff) | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
As for pressuring them.... For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured. But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 21 2011 11:26 LSB wrote: Go read XXXIV, or Micro Mafia IV. That or even read XXXV. I don't know what happened at the end, but I'm assuming that inactives still lost you guys the game. It doesn't matter, even town aligned Inactives hurt the game and Inactives in LYLO causes town loss. No LSB, I lost town the game. And I was really active that game. And you can't say "it doesn't matter". Again, we want to pressure inactives to vote, not lynch them. Let me ask you some questions: 1.Do you think mafia will lurk, or be inactive, and why? 2.Would you rather lynch a lurker or an inactive, and why? 3.You said you had opinions on Nemesis, what is that? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Arguing any more will just be pointless/lead to arguments. Moving forward, I am currently satisfied with the state of nemesis, or at least am going to wait. I have a new suspect: Hesmyrr. On January 20 2011 22:46 Hesmyrr wrote: Seconding the opinion that discussing town PR action is rather pointless, since the setup isn't themed or anything. Trying to direct their actions just open up tons of WIFOM on the later days. Is lynching inactives good idea? Hum, let me throw down the gauntlet. ##Vote BloodyC0bbler check the thread faster  Doesn't really say anything. On January 21 2011 02:53 Hesmyrr wrote: Since everyone seems to be piping up, I shall take on the role of Devil's Advocate. Note that the current situation is 8-3. Assuming nothing happens with town keep failing lynches: 8-3 6-3 4-3 That is 2 ML available to eliminate 3 mafia. If vig misfires the available mislynch decreases to 1. Holy jeez, I'd love to have been stuck with F11 setup with these odds. Random bantering aside I am questioning that whether it is wise to religiously throw away one of these valuable lynch opportunity in banner of activity. Of course inactivity is hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell) but it should not be given greater weight than ordinary accusation even in day 1. At least the latter would help draw towns discussion more toward post of actual players. Does a common mafia tell, instead of actually analyzing just gives voting list. On January 21 2011 03:06 Hesmyrr wrote: I just wanted to note that inactivity issue should be treated with less emphasis in small roster setup (Mini-mafia) like this. Will try to look for fos suspects I can post about later on. Semi contradicts previous post that inactivity is a huge scum tell, now says we should place less emphasis on it. Overall hasn't really said anything. For a more seasoned player, I would expect more out of him. ##Vote Hesmyrr | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote: You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no? On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote: Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place. Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 22 2011 04:12 chaoser wrote: You've spoken but all you've given is definitions and what we SHOULD do with no clear plans/idea on how we're going to even go about doing it (differentiate between town lurkers/inactives and mafia lurkers/inactives). You stated that your main goal is get town to be active which is a non-committal thing to do. Your analysis of Nemesis was pretty bad, pretty much calling him out on saying pretty much the same things everyone else was saying/everyone else usually says on Day 1 (Lynch inactives, blah blah blah). Though I do think Nemesis' over aggressiveness was a bit weird, I think your actions/posts haven't been much better. So I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being. I'm not just going to say "If someone does this: then I suspect them as mafia". Should I? It just seems to me that would enable mafia to easily hide from me even more. And me thinks I've gotten town active. By accusing two people, I started discussion, got people talking, and so forth. On January 22 2011 04:53 GGQ wrote: Do you really think that's a relevant reply to what I was saying? You initial point was that we shouldn't lynch inactives because mafia are never inactive. I pointed out the undeniable fact that two mafia were inactive in the last big game, proving your point wrong. Now you are trying to say we don't want to lynch inactives because they will get modkilled (which might not even happen if they're careful enough to post once or twice and vote), and you're saying it as though that was your point all along. Maybe you just weren't keeping up with the logic, but this feels sketchy to me. Also, why so uncomfortable with having just one vote on you? Your play seems nervous to me. Tevo made a very long post, and actually was quite content-full when he actually contributed. Then he died on day 2. We don't know what would've happened with his activity. Furthormore, Brockett was lurking, not inactive. I'm unsure about Tevo, he may have just been inactive as well. But as a very consistent trend those who are inactive are not mafia. While you can name two(and only really one might be inactive mafia), I can name at least 4. George clooney, soulfire, DTA, treehugger. Seeing as I doubt I'll get any more from Hesmyrr seeing as he's going to be gone, it's time to pressure a more seasoned player. I'm going to be voting Bloody Cobblar. He actually hasn't played anti town. But the thing is he hasn't contributed at all really to the discussion of who to lynch. He's talked about "forced activity" and "watch out for lurkers", but then hasn't done anything. I know your in another game, but you need to start posting more. ##Vote BC | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote BC | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 22 2011 06:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Thats your problem. Stop expecting vets to perform and win games and learn to do it yourself. I was asked to join this game, and I am playing, but compared to pyp I am not solo winning this game. I am here purely to help town win, but I am not doing all the heavy lifting. I told you already where the days errors were, and how to redirect them, its now up to you guys to listen or not listen. Its your call. Alright, didn't know you were purposely going to not be as active as you were in pyp3. Since I really don't know who to lynch, I'm just going to stick with the Shockkey lynch. Because while I don't think he's mafia, I'm unsure about everyone. And at the very least, there is merit in lynching lurkers, as he has himself addmitted to be one. I think he's been to "I'm town screw off", but as for right now no one else comes to mind. ##Unvote BC ##Vote Shockkey | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
##Vote LSB Yeah shockkey isn't mafia. If you really think mafia have decided to just let us have a free kill on day 1 with NO resistance, that's a bit of a silly willy thought. Posts LSB has made just have made me suspicious of him. (Then again a side benefit if Shockeyy is red, Pandain is red) He knows better than to think "if X defends Y, and y is mafia, X is definitely red" 2. I'd kill both. I've explained above in a different post. But order of Mafia Lurker>Inactive>Lurker Hasn't shown shockkey to be mafia lurker Indeed, saying things without actually contributing is a great way to find a mafia. An inactive may actually help, but a lurker just repeats nothing. HEAVILY contradicts what he's been saying this whole time. Especially the above post for instance, and several others. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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The only thing worrying me about LSB's lynch is that barundar just suddenly changed from "I'ma do two analysis on shockkey, he's mafia", to "shockkey is just the easy lynch, let's vote lsb." And normally I would be more upset with lynching an active player if everyone wasn't really talking. Thus far almost everyone has been posting a decent amount. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote: My case against him was: 1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too). 2. Indirectly derailing discussion. 3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else. 4. Self-vote. What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
The point I'm trying to make though is LSB is NOT a village idiot, he knows better than this. | ||
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Pandain
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we can't have a tie | ||
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Pandain
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##Unvote LSB ##Vote Shockkey | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 23 2011 00:46 LSB wrote: As per what BC suggested, lets start working on Night Actions. We should keep the Medic Protect List as small as possible, maybe 2-3 people so the mafia won't be tempted to shoot inside it. On the other hand, the DT check list can be pretty large. But it should be used as a way that people can make FOS Medic Protect List Hesmyrr- He has no real suspicion on him, making him an attractive target DT Check Lists Pandain Barunder- weird vote switching GGQ While Hesmyrr is a good choice for medic protection, having only one possibility for medics to protect is a very bad idea. Medic, you should RNG between Hesmyrr and another person you think is blue/going to get hit. As for the DT check list, here's my list: Barundar-I agree, that vote switch did catch my attention. Something about him just isn't right. However, he has been performing analysis, but his playstyle has been off(for example, doesn't post as much.) LSB Has been playing suspiciously Jackal This guy really catches my eyes. Either he is just showing how he's new, or he's mafia. It's somewhat consistent with the previous game so that helps him a little, but as of now i think he's a good check. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Note if I was mafia, then if I had not done so, there would'be been no lynch. | ||
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Pandain
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First off, this is very bad for town. From now on we need to get every lynch right unless there is a medic protection/they hit a vet. In defense of myself, there are a plethora of reasons which show I am not mafia: 1.LSB died-why would, if I'm mafia, I shoot him. It would only bring suspicion upon myself 2.Why would I be frantically changing between two townies. Why not just stick with one? Furthormore, we need to band together and this next vote. Since its 5 v3, if even 1 other person sides with who the mafia want to get lynched, then its going to at least be a tie, which is not good for us. My top suspect is Nemesis. Note how he hasn't been contributing at all this day, when its so important. Yet in previous games when he's town he contributes a lot, making analysis and the such. Along with going for the "easy lynch" in Shockkey, he's hardly contributed to the game. He's a classic "contributing without really contributing". ##Vote Nemesis | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
and Gmarshal, for the love of god its Pandain, not Panadian. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Summary: Nemesis to me is scum. From "contributing without really contributing", weak contribution compared to his previous game(such as lack of analysis) to his general posts this game, Nemesis has been playing scummy. Note how when he was town he would contribute alot, and I even waited a day for Nemesis to perhaps post something, but its very likely in my eyes that he's scum, and just wanted the day to go by. I'm unsure about nearly everyone, but Nemesis in my eyes is our best bet. An analysis of his posts this game + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote: @Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive. And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking. I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I don't like this post. I'm going to be a little lenient since it's a somewhat confusing concept, but again, we don't want to lynch inactives. We want to lynch lurkers. Every person we lynch who's "inactive." is not going to be mafia. On January 20 2011 22:30 Nemesis wrote: Duh, of course lynching the most active player day 1 is not the best idea ever (I suggested lynching inactives), but I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to lynch active players. We shouldn't focus too much on what blues should do. We don't know what blue roles there are and blues will do what they think is best anyways. We should just focus more on scumhunting than whatever blue plans. Okay, focus on scum hunting. However, Nemesis hasn't scum hunted or helped with blues. On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote: Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote Shockeyy I haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. Explains himself, but the main problem about this post is his vote. Votes with a one line answer, going for the easy lynch. On January 21 2011 10:53 Nemesis wrote: Okay, note what he's saying. 1."I'm just pressuring Shockkey". Yet Nemesis never ends up unvoting him, despite Shockkey becoming considerably more active. 2."Hey, no one else is adding new content." Well for one, that doesn't give you an excuse at all and second, you've done some pretty decent analysis in previous games. Furthormore, other people had actually been actively talking about stuff. On January 21 2011 11:17 Nemesis wrote: Pandain all you did is define inactive/lurker. You still haven't answered how we can differentiate between them.You are just repeating the same points over and over again without really answering that question. The only thing that we can really do is prevent everyone from heading that way in the first place by pressuring/lynching inactives. Keeps saying "Lynch inactives!" Again, we want to lynch lurkers. But that's really moot, and it's more the philosophy of how to play mafia rather than mafia itself. Notice how rather than actually contributing at all Nemesis has just defended himself and argued over the definitions. On January 22 2011 12:52 Nemesis wrote: I am not really sure about voting for Gmarshal. He seems to be trying a bit of forced activity, but at least he is trying, while shockeyy on the other hand has pretty much been useless. Note how Shockkey has by this point actually been contributing somewhat. At least more than Nemesis. He's changed from "just make sure he doesn't dissapear" to "lynch him, he's useless." On January 23 2011 03:58 Nemesis wrote: Hmmm, town is in a bit of a bad position right now with BC getting modkilled. Right now it is 6-3 5-3 (after tonight) 3-3 (the next day if we mislynch) So next day is pretty much LYLO, unless medic succesfully protects someone. We need to be careful about the next lynch and not be too rash. States the obvious. His posts, as town, in TMM2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7478150 Contributes ALOT gives a decent reason and vote http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7517284 contributes alot again | ||
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Pandain
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On January 24 2011 13:01 chaoser wrote: You confuse me this game Pandain...I don't understand your logic at all and maybe that's the ploy, to do crazy random shit that no one can follow. You say Nemesis is "contributing without really contributing" but you're even worse. Before this analysis, you were basically "contributing so much that you weren't contributing at all." By jumping from target to target and playing up the fact that you were only doing this to "start up conversation", you basically had no opinion on the game because you pointed fingers at everything and everyone. You realize that isn't helping town right? Making conversation is good, making the topic change every 10 minutes is bad. We went from Nemesis to BC to Shockey to LSB. I think there was someone else in there but basically by doing that, we can't pin you down for anything. Do you see how you're doing the same thing as "contributing without really contributing"? Also, you're riding on him for not contributing today when more than half the town didn't contribute. I don't think that's a strong claim at all. Does that mean GGQ and Hesmyrr and Me are mafia too? Even you barely contributed today until a few hours ago. It's the semi finals for the NFL so maybe that's why some people aren't here? I know that's what I was doing all day. I really don't understand...I don't think you're mafia just cause you're playing so randomly and loud but at the same time that's so WIFOM...for all I know, in a few hours, you're going to jump to trying to lynch someone else...can someone else weigh in on this? I'm confused as fuck on Pandain's actions. What do you think GGQ...I just don't even...sigh Pandain, can you explain what your logic was for your actions on Day 1? Would make my life easier. It's called creating your own information. Day 1 is all about that. In most day 1's, we have no information at all. With the exception of Nemesis, all of my accusations day 1 were not serious, they were just to get them talking as well as generate discussion from others. I do this in all my games as town, I pressure people until they talk enough. For example, the reason why I unvoted Nemesis and waited was to see if he would actually start to help scum hunt. Take me out of the equation. What information would we have had? As for Jackal, he's my number two suspect. However I think he is being too "brazen" for a scum. Like saying I'm mafia "100%", what mafia would do that? Mafia want to seem level headed, not "omg this guy is red 100%". | ||
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On January 25 2011 01:14 Jackal58 wrote: Who do ya have in mind as the 3rd one? In my mind it's Pandain #1. Nobody is that unlucky. What do you mean nobody is that unlucky? You mean because I thought LSB was red on day 1, and then it turns out he's green? Let me repeat on day 1? | ||
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Pandain
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On January 25 2011 01:22 chaoser wrote: If they weren't serious, why did you vote for Shockey? And why did you switch to LSB, not Nemesis, if he was the exception? Something's not adding up... We still have no information...just you saying that you think Nemesis is mafia with no real solid backing, in my opinion. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like you're grasping at empty straws. Post a better analysis please. And leave out the "he didn't scum hunt, only went after inactives" argument, it's getting stale. I voted for Shockkey because I didn't want to have a tie. Note how I never accused Shockkey, I defended him. Yet between lynching a person I FELT was a "bad" townie(I'm using that word lightly), and not lynching at all, the choice was obvious. As for Nemesis, I agree. I'm not certain about anyone. However Nemesis is my best bet, and that's why I'm voting him. Playing vastly different from his previous playstyle when town, going for the easy lynch, and just general scum traits(which you don't want me to talk about), lead him to be my #1 suspect. However of course, its day 2. Do you have anyone better? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched. As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good). Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose. Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?). And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people. How am I mafia? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
sup? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 25 2011 07:23 Jackal58 wrote: You didn't miss one. You missed two. Shockevvy = green LSB = Green and then BC mod killed = green. You were voting for all 3 at various times. Pushing hard for LSB and then voting Shockevvy when you were afraid of a tie. It's just too convenient. Let's see: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#162-say shockkey is town http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#174 I THINK lsb is mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#145 That is the only post in which I voted shockkey, and note how I said I don't think he's mafia, but didn't have anyone else to vote for. Later on I thought LSB was our best bet, so I tried for him. As for BC, originally I thought he was scummy(and keep in mind when I say that I mean keeping in mind that its day1), but then when he was like "you guys have to learN" instead of the typical"I'm busy", that made me think he's town. Are you really voting me because I was wrong on day1? Because I got ONE person wrong on day 1? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
2. Barundar I'm unsure too. But he just isn't as active as before, and while he's done "an" analysis, he isn't really "active" per se. Like he's not actively trying to figure everything out, and seems like he's just chillaxing. 3. Hesmyrr-long analysis, getting replace when you wouldn't need to when mafia(as mafia, don't need to do so much thinking and "real" analysis. 6. Pandain 7. GGQ- Unsure, but he seems to fit his playstyle as town, albeit he's more active/seems to contribute more this game. I think he's town, but unsure. 8. Chaoser- still not getting a "good read", but my gut tells me he's town. Well actually my gut says he's mafia, but my logic says he's town :p. Contributes alot, and really theres only one thing that I can really say might prove:1.Not defending me when he switched to shockkey as well(albeit thats a small thing).. 9. Nemesis Ironically I'm not as sure as before, but I don't really have anyone else that I'm more sure of. 10. GMarshalFor one his vote on Nemesis. If he was mafia, then that means that out of the 3 votes on me, at least one would be town. That means if Gmarshall had voted me, he could've just said "yeah I think he's scum" and gotten me lynched. And mafia would win the game as long as no one got vigi'd/no vet hit/medic protection. Finally has contributed at least a decent amount. Here's the current list from my perspective. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Or jackal? Maybe I'm tunneling a bit. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Which also means your more likely scum based on my list. First off, the fact is you really haven't analyzed at all, contrary to beforehand. Just because you got someone wrong doesn't mean you stop trying. Then you've said "well even if he wasn't scummy, then who would I lynch". The point is you find new people. And I'm tired of people saying I'm derailing the thread so much. Like last time, with my fake claim. People hardly even talked about that, and in return it could've guranteed about 3 days worth of blue actions. Plus at least it generated discussion. And now just because we're talking about "lynching inactives:yes or no" and the typical day 1 jazz, just because I helped forward that discussion, I'm derailing the thread. As for what Shockkey had contributed: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=5#100 A semi analysis on you http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#150 A decent post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#153 Showed he had been at least helping somewhat Shockkey had started contributing, that isn't a lie. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
I'm 75% sure out of you and Jackal, one or both of you are mafia  . Cmon, where are other people? Why am I always nearly alone in trying to figure stuff out? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 25 2011 08:46 Nemesis wrote: I'm sorry but you call shockeyy's posts contributing? The first post that you mentioned was I admit that he was at least trying. But really he only responds when he is called out. It was the same thing with the other 2 post that you mentioned. His second post was an OMGUS for him having "2 jobs and school", and his last post is counting the number of post to "prove" he's not lurking/inactive which is pretty useless as it doesn't take into account the content of the posts. Which is the same as you. You've really only been either defending(and then attacking) from your accuser(me.) I'm going to be honest I literally I have no idea what to do right now. BC getting modkilled was . | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Finally, I thought BC was green. So I didn't want him lynched anyway. What your doing right now is analyzing me in the MINDSET that I'm mafia, rather than in the mindset of "I'll find out." My actions make just as much sense when you put them in the perspective of "Pandain is town." Finally, that was my vote, since no one else was changing. Since they didn't make a choice, I had to. And it was better to lynch an inactive, then not lynch at all. | ||
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United States12989 Posts
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On January 25 2011 09:31 Jackal58 wrote: There are only two possible reasons for the way you played day 1. ! is you're mafia. 2 is you're an idiot. I think 1 is the most likely scenario. How about you actually answer the content rather than say "If you do that your an idiot". I don't deny I'm an idiot, but at least show me the way. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 25 2011 09:38 Jackal58 wrote: No. I said if you were town you were the unluckiest person ever. I've never commented on what you believe or why. My comments are all based on your day one rush to lynch. It only makes sense if you're red. Quit putting words in my mouth. I did answer it. How much more clear can I be in my reasons? Flail all you want. I said why am I unlucky. You said(or what did you mean) by that is because I thought shockkey was red. On January 25 2011 07:23 Jackal58 wrote: You didn't miss one. You missed two. Shockevvy = green LSB = Green and then BC mod killed = green. You were voting for all 3 at various times. Pushing hard for LSB and then voting Shockevvy when you were afraid of a tie. It's just too convenient. Here you say I'm unlucky because I missed three. However, I thought Shockkey and BC were green. So because I got one person wrong ON DAY 1, for the love of god its day 1, I'm red? And what do you mean "day 1 rush to lynch" Furthormore, how many times do I have to say that the day 1 analysis was mostly forced up until I offered Nemesis as a viable lynched, because I was just generating discussion. | ||
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Just because someone was probably going to get modkilled means its suddenly okay if no lynch happens? There was no discussion on BC(besides my SLIGHT accusation which I later revoked.) Him dying told us nothing. And I thought he was town. Part of why lynches are so important is because it provides us information. Otherwise, we're still in the dark. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Keeping in mind its day 1, meaning I'm only 60-75% sure he's town, meaning theres still a chance he's mafia. And at the very least a useless townie. Keeping in mind that if BC, who i thought was green, died, then it would be as if we started off a townie down, and mafia got a free hit. Keeping in mind that its better at the very least to lynch than not lynch, when a modkill won't gurantee us any information... I don't see why you're so insistent on believing I'm mafia. Either your scum or tunneling, and need to think. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 25 2011 10:39 Jackal58 wrote: A lynch puts us into an almost immediate lylo on day 2. Why would a townie do that? Okay I'm sorry I don't have knowledge in hindsight to aid me. You can tell the atmosphere of panic, there wasn't much time to think. What your saying is what would've been "ideal". Just because I didn't do that, and keep in mind no one even mentioned not lynching, so it was on NO ONE's mind. So why do you think I am to blame? This is why I am a sad panda sometimes. Because I'm the most active, I get the blame for everything. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On January 25 2011 11:02 Jackal58 wrote: Your activity hasn't been an issue. But the day 1 lynch can only be explained in 1 way. Well 2 but option 2 doesn't seem to fit. If I'm wrong it's only because you pulled an exceptionally bonehead play at the end of day 1 that guaranteed 3 dead town at the start of day 2. What else am I supposed to think? Wtf? How am I in charge of LSB's death? How am I in charge of BC's deatH? I'm not even in charge of Shockkeys death, I didn't even want that. Furthormore, Shockkey was going to be lynched BEFORE I did anything. In fact, I only ALMOST saved him. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Why, one hour beforehand, would I change. Some people have said because I wanted to "kill a more active townie" but really I just wanted to save shockkey. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
The mod kill just left us with a townie dead and no info. It's as if we started off a day late. You're missing the point of day1:information. That's really the main thing about day 1. And lynches provide a crucial part. I didn't want Shockkey to be lynched, I wanted LSB to be lynched(who I was wrong about on day 1). I tried to save shockkey an hour before(why would i do that as mafia). However, because I didn't want us to end up in the "one day later" scenario, I voted shockkey so at least in the 30-40% chance he was mafia, we would gain info. And in the scenario that he was town, we would still be instutituing the "no lurking" policy. I'm sorry that I didn't realize it brought us to lylo. But as I'm going to point out again, no one else did. And really, if you don't even acknowledge the possibility of what I'm saying is true, I give up - | ||
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On January 26 2011 08:59 Ace wrote: damn Pandain you got lynched as Town? v_v by 3 mafia and jackal :p On January 26 2011 12:28 Jackal58 wrote: When Pandain flipped green. I really should apologize to Pandain but dammit he put us into a lylo situation on day 2 and I really couldn't see anybody but red doing that. Honestly if you expect someone to always remember the lylo count, that's pretty silly. Plus the fact everyone then was like "WE CAN'T HAVE TIE"(not just me). I actually felt I did pretty well, although aparently not. I nailed nemesis, suspected Barundar, and the only one I didn't suspect was Chaoser. Was there anything that gave him away in particular? Anyway, since Incognito hasn't responded yet, I'd like to ask if anyone(paritcularly veterans) have anything to say in my pm to him? This game has been pretty interesting. Even though its only been two days, I still feel like I would have enough information to get this lynch right. However, I am clueless. I was wondering, if, after this game ends, you could shed your light on a number of things: A)What I should've been thinking B)Role of "Metagame" in Mafia-As in, would mafia stick their necks out? Is that wifomish? To what extent should I use that? Furthormore, how other people have played in previous games, to what extent should that be used in analyzing them. C) Role of "Dumb" townies. How should I do this? Do mafia usually stick their neck out? And can I even analyze based on what "mafia usually do", since they would change that anyway? For example I would think Jackal is mafia based on how much he's accusing me. But just because he's SO rash, and actually pretty active makes me think he's town. D)Generating information? Did I derail the thread or help? I thought I was generating information, but apparently I didn't. Anyway, if you would so kindly shed light on these issues, I'd be forever grateful. If you don't, its koo. | ||
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