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Vatican City State1650 Posts
So. What are the DT checks. I'm seriously doubting some people here who trusted Pandain from the start. Every target he pointed out so far either flipped blue or green. Pandain, if you really are a DT, give us your results. And why has the mafia not hit you, not even once?
And do we even have medics? We got absolutely no medic saves. The hell?
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United States1966 Posts
On January 06 2011 20:59 orgolove wrote:
So. What are the DT checks. I'm seriously doubting some people here who trusted Pandain from the start. Every target he pointed out so far either flipped blue or green. Pandain, if you really are a DT, give us your results. And why has the mafia not hit you, not even once?
And do we even have medics? We got absolutely no medic saves. The hell?
It makes sense if medics have been saving pandain/opz, and mafia has been avoiding them due to that. Revealing who he checked is probably not a good idea since mafia will just target them, no?
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Loooooooooooollll mafia. Quality hits yet again.
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People really don’t want to play this game :S More non participants posting than actual players.
On January 06 2011 06:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:
shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me
I don’t think Darth is mafia based on how uneventful yesterday’s vote was. But then again lynching the godfather was uneventful.
Here are my PM’s with Seraph. He is willing to discuss with me, and puts forward his own thoughts. I don’t believe he is mafia, but please make up your own mind and post it in thread.
+ Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH:
About your votes, fine, your call.
I was about to go to sleep but I'll read the PMs if you want me to.
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'd rather let Pandain decides if he insist. He nearly got us to lynch orgolove yesterday, but I don't see my opinion on anyone as being more important than his. And I fucked up badly on RoL.
I've been pressuring Meapak in PM's, and I'm not sure I like his answer. On one hand I find he is acting completely unreasonable. On the other hand it just seems too stupid to be mafia. Do you want to give me your opinion on them if I send them to you?
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Original Message From seRapH:
I think he's the lesser of my two votes. Are you planning on switching off Darth or going through with supporting Pandain?
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'm leaning towards your votes myself. Darth is just me supporting Pandain. What do you think of meapak?
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Original Message From seRapH:
Why are we lynching Darth?
+ Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: Show nested quote +Just quickly looking at the voting I think Shockey is fine, soulfire is a little suspicious and darth is a lotta suspicious. I can't agree with this at all, seems like the exact opposite to me. But if he were mafia I don't really get why he'd want Darth dead so bad unless he thought Darth was blue. And to be fair you never pressed the question, but that is something to be looking for. I've just looked over TheMango, but for now Meapak strikes me as less scummy than the following: Mr.Zergling TheMango Soulfire I'm not afraid to lynch him, especially since he's claiming green. Also why is he so confident that why is Pro-Town? There's probably some PM contact between them but the thread doesn't say anything. ~snip~[my PM’s with Meapak]
Lastly Shockeyy. I have no PM’s with him, but this is what he has done in the game:
Contribution:+ Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 13:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok here how it goes. Pandain claims DT and no one counter claims cause they're scared of actually getting killed by mafia. Then Pandain ask for DT's to claim so early on in the game, why? Because since no one counter claimed him, the mafia weren't able to figure out who's a blue and since Pandain is a mafia, of course he wants the blue to claim so they're easier targets... Since pandain has everyone thinking he's a DT of course no one will go after him... On January 04 2011 09:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" How is attacking the godfather a good idea? If you really think they're scum prove it. At this point they're some of the only people scum hunting in the thread. Until you start pitching in I'd say pandain and barundar are way more town then you. Because the godfather was going down either way... Might as well as jump in on the bandwagon and just play along to not be considered "scum"... On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy"
Tunneling Pandain:+ Show Spoiler + On January 04 2011 08:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Ok, I can't believe you guys are letting Pandain get away... He's asking for blues to roleclaim... He has everyone believing he's a blue, which clearly he's not imo. Why do you go asking blues to roleclaim it's pretty easy to stack hits as a Mafia member and just kill off pandain, but of course he hasn't died because he's one of them. If the mafia really wanted to kill off blues, they already know one right here. Pandain isn't a blue. Heed my warning. On January 03 2011 05:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And I put money on it that Pandain is a mafia. So I'm going to keep sticking it to Pandain. On January 03 2011 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He has gotten out of two day lynches some how and I'm still confused as to how you guys are not noticing this at all. On December 30 2010 12:48 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I vote for Pandain he keeps sending me messages and harassing me while im working.. I don't get home till tomorrow after 1pm, so I won't be able to keep up as much till then or be even able to post cause like I said, reading/posting on my phone is terribad.
Reason for lurking:+ Show Spoiler + On January 03 2011 05:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Meh, I'm not as active cause of holidays and work. Also when ever I'm active, I always end up dying first and since I'm a townie in this game, no point of trying to start analyzing in the beginning so I can just die the next day... So I've just lurked from my phone while I worked and posted when ever I needed too... But now that the night post will happy soon, we'll see what happens. I'll start being more active since I don't have to work crazy hours and stuff.
IMO this raises red flag. A green that is afraid of dieing?
And what to think of this?: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote:
Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote:
WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY
I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones.
SUMMARY
1.Contribute without spamming
2.Be active, make well thought out posts.
3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote:
Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote:
I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then?
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar.
We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote:
Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive.
There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote:
I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself.
By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me.  On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. On December 28 2010 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ahh i read that wrong... this is what happens when you get 2hrs of sleep and are reading/posting from a phone. _.
Anyways, fosing myself cause im an idiot.
And finaly: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. … On January 07 2011 00:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He's mafia themango...
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I'll agree that it doesn't look like ShoCkeyy has contributed much at all.
For those PMs, keep in mind that the last day's wagon was essentially between 3 townies (from my perspective). So there was no reason for the mafia to do anything too crazy because they didn't need to protect anyone really.
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Voting to start it off, but I should be on a couple more times before the day ends.
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On January 07 2011 01:49 Barundar wrote:People really don’t want to play this game :S More non participants posting than actual players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:
shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me I don’t think Darth is mafia based on how uneventful yesterday’s vote was. But then again lynching the godfather was uneventful. Here are my PM’s with Seraph. He is willing to discuss with me, and puts forward his own thoughts. I don’t believe he is mafia, but please make up your own mind and post it in thread. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH:
About your votes, fine, your call.
I was about to go to sleep but I'll read the PMs if you want me to.
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'd rather let Pandain decides if he insist. He nearly got us to lynch orgolove yesterday, but I don't see my opinion on anyone as being more important than his. And I fucked up badly on RoL.
I've been pressuring Meapak in PM's, and I'm not sure I like his answer. On one hand I find he is acting completely unreasonable. On the other hand it just seems too stupid to be mafia. Do you want to give me your opinion on them if I send them to you?
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Original Message From seRapH:
I think he's the lesser of my two votes. Are you planning on switching off Darth or going through with supporting Pandain?
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'm leaning towards your votes myself. Darth is just me supporting Pandain. What do you think of meapak?
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Original Message From seRapH:
Why are we lynching Darth? Original Message From seRapH: Show nested quote +Just quickly looking at the voting I think Shockey is fine, soulfire is a little suspicious and darth is a lotta suspicious. I can't agree with this at all, seems like the exact opposite to me. But if he were mafia I don't really get why he'd want Darth dead so bad unless he thought Darth was blue. And to be fair you never pressed the question, but that is something to be looking for. I've just looked over TheMango, but for now Meapak strikes me as less scummy than the following: Mr.Zergling TheMango Soulfire I'm not afraid to lynch him, especially since he's claiming green. Also why is he so confident that why is Pro-Town? There's probably some PM contact between them but the thread doesn't say anything. ~snip~[my PM’s with Meapak] Lastly Shockeyy. I have no PM’s with him, but this is what he has done in the game: Contribution: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 13:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok here how it goes. Pandain claims DT and no one counter claims cause they're scared of actually getting killed by mafia. Then Pandain ask for DT's to claim so early on in the game, why? Because since no one counter claimed him, the mafia weren't able to figure out who's a blue and since Pandain is a mafia, of course he wants the blue to claim so they're easier targets... Since pandain has everyone thinking he's a DT of course no one will go after him... On January 04 2011 09:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" How is attacking the godfather a good idea? If you really think they're scum prove it. At this point they're some of the only people scum hunting in the thread. Until you start pitching in I'd say pandain and barundar are way more town then you. Because the godfather was going down either way... Might as well as jump in on the bandwagon and just play along to not be considered "scum"... On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" Tunneling Pandain: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2011 08:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Ok, I can't believe you guys are letting Pandain get away... He's asking for blues to roleclaim... He has everyone believing he's a blue, which clearly he's not imo. Why do you go asking blues to roleclaim it's pretty easy to stack hits as a Mafia member and just kill off pandain, but of course he hasn't died because he's one of them. If the mafia really wanted to kill off blues, they already know one right here. Pandain isn't a blue. Heed my warning. On January 03 2011 05:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And I put money on it that Pandain is a mafia. So I'm going to keep sticking it to Pandain. On January 03 2011 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He has gotten out of two day lynches some how and I'm still confused as to how you guys are not noticing this at all. On December 30 2010 12:48 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I vote for Pandain he keeps sending me messages and harassing me while im working.. I don't get home till tomorrow after 1pm, so I won't be able to keep up as much till then or be even able to post cause like I said, reading/posting on my phone is terribad. Reason for lurking: + Show Spoiler + On January 03 2011 05:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Meh, I'm not as active cause of holidays and work. Also when ever I'm active, I always end up dying first and since I'm a townie in this game, no point of trying to start analyzing in the beginning so I can just die the next day... So I've just lurked from my phone while I worked and posted when ever I needed too... But now that the night post will happy soon, we'll see what happens. I'll start being more active since I don't have to work crazy hours and stuff. IMO this raises red flag. A green that is afraid of dieing? And what to think of this?: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote:
Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote:
WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY
I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones.
SUMMARY
1.Contribute without spamming
2.Be active, make well thought out posts.
3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote:
Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote:
I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then?
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar.
We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote:
Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive.
There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote:
I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself.
By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me. On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. On December 28 2010 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ahh i read that wrong... this is what happens when you get 2hrs of sleep and are reading/posting from a phone. _.
Anyways, fosing myself cause im an idiot. And finaly: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. … On January 07 2011 00:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He's mafia themango...
Those are some amazing PMs from Seraph. I'm voting him.
He takes stands in private? Include the time stamp like I do? RoL suggested him.
I'll also be willing to vote for you or pandain. I'm tired of everyone following your lead. Where has it gotten us?
Who do you suspect Insanious?
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On January 06 2011 20:59 orgolove wrote:
So. What are the DT checks. I'm seriously doubting some people here who trusted Pandain from the start. Every target he pointed out so far either flipped blue or green. Pandain, if you really are a DT, give us your results. And why has the mafia not hit you, not even once?
And do we even have medics? We got absolutely no medic saves. The hell?
Pandain fake claimed DT.
Pandain also is not posting. He is on though. He's pming me.
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Also, if you were roleblocked, please post in thread.
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On January 07 2011 01:49 Barundar wrote:People really don’t want to play this game :S More non participants posting than actual players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:
shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me I don’t think Darth is mafia based on how uneventful yesterday’s vote was. But then again lynching the godfather was uneventful. Here are my PM’s with Seraph. He is willing to discuss with me, and puts forward his own thoughts. I don’t believe he is mafia, but please make up your own mind and post it in thread. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH:
About your votes, fine, your call.
I was about to go to sleep but I'll read the PMs if you want me to.
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'd rather let Pandain decides if he insist. He nearly got us to lynch orgolove yesterday, but I don't see my opinion on anyone as being more important than his. And I fucked up badly on RoL.
I've been pressuring Meapak in PM's, and I'm not sure I like his answer. On one hand I find he is acting completely unreasonable. On the other hand it just seems too stupid to be mafia. Do you want to give me your opinion on them if I send them to you?
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Original Message From seRapH:
I think he's the lesser of my two votes. Are you planning on switching off Darth or going through with supporting Pandain?
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'm leaning towards your votes myself. Darth is just me supporting Pandain. What do you think of meapak?
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Original Message From seRapH:
Why are we lynching Darth? Original Message From seRapH: Show nested quote +Just quickly looking at the voting I think Shockey is fine, soulfire is a little suspicious and darth is a lotta suspicious. I can't agree with this at all, seems like the exact opposite to me. But if he were mafia I don't really get why he'd want Darth dead so bad unless he thought Darth was blue. And to be fair you never pressed the question, but that is something to be looking for. I've just looked over TheMango, but for now Meapak strikes me as less scummy than the following: Mr.Zergling TheMango Soulfire I'm not afraid to lynch him, especially since he's claiming green. Also why is he so confident that why is Pro-Town? There's probably some PM contact between them but the thread doesn't say anything. ~snip~[my PM’s with Meapak] Lastly Shockeyy. I have no PM’s with him, but this is what he has done in the game: Contribution: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 13:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok here how it goes. Pandain claims DT and no one counter claims cause they're scared of actually getting killed by mafia. Then Pandain ask for DT's to claim so early on in the game, why? Because since no one counter claimed him, the mafia weren't able to figure out who's a blue and since Pandain is a mafia, of course he wants the blue to claim so they're easier targets... Since pandain has everyone thinking he's a DT of course no one will go after him... On January 04 2011 09:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" How is attacking the godfather a good idea? If you really think they're scum prove it. At this point they're some of the only people scum hunting in the thread. Until you start pitching in I'd say pandain and barundar are way more town then you. Because the godfather was going down either way... Might as well as jump in on the bandwagon and just play along to not be considered "scum"... On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" Tunneling Pandain: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2011 08:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Ok, I can't believe you guys are letting Pandain get away... He's asking for blues to roleclaim... He has everyone believing he's a blue, which clearly he's not imo. Why do you go asking blues to roleclaim it's pretty easy to stack hits as a Mafia member and just kill off pandain, but of course he hasn't died because he's one of them. If the mafia really wanted to kill off blues, they already know one right here. Pandain isn't a blue. Heed my warning. On January 03 2011 05:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And I put money on it that Pandain is a mafia. So I'm going to keep sticking it to Pandain. On January 03 2011 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He has gotten out of two day lynches some how and I'm still confused as to how you guys are not noticing this at all. On December 30 2010 12:48 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I vote for Pandain he keeps sending me messages and harassing me while im working.. I don't get home till tomorrow after 1pm, so I won't be able to keep up as much till then or be even able to post cause like I said, reading/posting on my phone is terribad. Reason for lurking: + Show Spoiler + On January 03 2011 05:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Meh, I'm not as active cause of holidays and work. Also when ever I'm active, I always end up dying first and since I'm a townie in this game, no point of trying to start analyzing in the beginning so I can just die the next day... So I've just lurked from my phone while I worked and posted when ever I needed too... But now that the night post will happy soon, we'll see what happens. I'll start being more active since I don't have to work crazy hours and stuff. IMO this raises red flag. A green that is afraid of dieing? And what to think of this?: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote:
Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote:
WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY
I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones.
SUMMARY
1.Contribute without spamming
2.Be active, make well thought out posts.
3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote:
Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote:
I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then?
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar.
We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote:
Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive.
There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote:
I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself.
By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me. On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. On December 28 2010 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ahh i read that wrong... this is what happens when you get 2hrs of sleep and are reading/posting from a phone. _.
Anyways, fosing myself cause im an idiot. And finaly: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. … On January 07 2011 00:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He's mafia themango...
uneventful? Go read the vote thread. -_- Darth got saved, last minute status.
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Okay hi I'm back. First off I have some bad news. I'm going to a model UN conference and won't be back until Sunday around 5PM. So until then I can't help you scum hunt. However, there are a couple things I want to comment on/note/talk about.
First off I was roleblocked again.
This indicates to me that mafia will probably keep on doing this because:
1)They know I'm DT, and this will be a succeful roleblock
2.)They might try to cast doubt on my role as DT
But I still have good fashioned scum hunting, so I'm going to leave you with a bit of my thoughts.
Let's take a look at the player list:
3. SeRapH
5. Brocket
6. TheMango
7. Mr.Zergling
8. why
9. Jackal58
11. jcarlsoniv Barundar
15. ShoCkeyy
17. ilovejonn
18. Insanious
19. Orgolove
24. d3_crescentia
29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn
Given that mafia KP went down after 2 died, and the fact that most likely there were 6/7(likely 6, 7 seems too big) mafia in the start, the formula for mafia kp is most likely # of mafia/2. So now there are probably either 4/5(likely 4) mafia remaining. I figure one of the best things I can do to help figure out who's still suspicious is to seperate the pro town from the rest.
First off, who's pro town in my eyes:
Me: 
Opz:Confirmed
Mr. Wiggles: Posts long posts when he does, good content in them
Barundar: Has been with me in a while, good reads from him on irc. In addition contributing to discussion.
Insanious: Like Barundar, except not in constant contact with me. Still, very pro town in my eyes.
Why: Doesn't post much, but those posts are long when he does.
People who I feel are likely town, but less sure of:
Jackal58
The Mango
Shockeyy
People Who I don't know:
Soulfire- seriously need to post more
Tree hugger-posts long, but hardly posts
People who I think are mafia but unsure
D3-hardly posts except when pressured.
Seraph-RoL's main suspect, this guy has been pretty suspicious. Aside from an analysis about Soulfire, Seraph hasn't really contributed that much.
People I think are mafia
IloveJonn-from weak thoughts to excuses for not analyzing, from making contradictions like saying we shouldn't just follow what other people think and then vote someone based on what someone else said, for weak vote reasons, this guy is suspicious.
Orgolove-Come on, it really can't still be considered "the holidays."
Mr Zergling Has been playing really scummy. For example, said in beginning we should be lynching inactives and then hasn't voted for an inactive sent. Defended Annul, and did a soft attempt at keeping the bandwagon on Orgolove. Right now really the only thing saving him is that he's playing similar to his last game as town.
Finally, remember everyone should claim to Opz. He is confirmed, 100%. Let me repeat that. Him being vigi is the ONLY POSSIBLE way for three kills to have happened that night.
The sole remaining DT, you are the most important person right now. The people who you have found green are confirmed without a shadow of a doubt. The people who are found red you should tell Opz and then he will say so in thread so you remain safe.
Medics need to claim so more coordination.
Hatters need to claim for more coordination.
There is no reason for anyone not to claim to Opz.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
Okay hi I'm back. First off I have some bad news. I'm going to a model UN conference and won't be back until Sunday around 5PM. So until then I can't help you scum hunt. However, there are a couple things I want to comment on/note/talk about.
Good. Town can stop sheeping to your fake DT claim and actually learn to think for themselves.
On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
First off I was roleblocked again.
My ass. Your only "check" you've revealed was that DrH was green. AFTER he was killed. Good job. And surprise surprise, for two days in a row, the reds never even came close to hitting you, despite your early claim as DT - aka highest priority target. Hmmmm.
On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
This indicates to me that mafia will probably keep on doing this because:
1)They know I'm DT, and this will be a succeful roleblock
2.)They might try to cast doubt on my role as DT
Sure. Just like they blocked you on day 2 and day 3, and you never claimed to be roleblocked on day 2. Right.
On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:But I still have good fashioned scum hunting, so I'm going to leave you with a bit of my thoughts. Let's take a look at the player list:3. SeRapH 5. Brocket 6. TheMango 7. Mr.Zergling 8. why 9. Jackal58 11. jcarlsoniv Barundar 15. ShoCkeyy 17. ilovejonn 18. Insanious 19. Orgolove 24. d3_crescentia 29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn Given that mafia KP went down after 2 died, and the fact that most likely there were 6/7(likely 6, 7 seems too big) mafia in the start, the formula for mafia kp is most likely # of mafia/2. So now there are probably either 4/5(likely 4) mafia remaining. I figure one of the best things I can do to help figure out who's still suspicious is to seperate the pro town from the rest. First off, who's pro town in my eyes: Me: Opz:Confirmed Mr. Wiggles: Posts long posts when he does, good content in them Barundar: Has been with me in a while, good reads from him on irc. In addition contributing to discussion. Insanious: Like Barundar, except not in constant contact with me. Still, very pro town in my eyes. Why: Doesn't post much, but those posts are long when he does. People who I feel are likely town, but less sure of: Jackal58
The Mango
Shockeyy
People Who I don't know:Soulfire- seriously need to post more Tree hugger-posts long, but hardly posts People who I think are mafia but unsure D3-hardly posts except when pressured. Seraph-RoL's main suspect, this guy has been pretty suspicious. Aside from an analysis about Soulfire, Seraph hasn't really contributed that much. People I think are mafia IloveJonn-from weak thoughts to excuses for not analyzing, from making contradictions like saying we shouldn't just follow what other people think and then vote someone based on what someone else said, for weak vote reasons, this guy is suspicious. Orgolove-Come on, it really can't still be considered "the holidays." Mr Zergling Has been playing really scummy. For example, said in beginning we should be lynching inactives and then hasn't voted for an inactive sent. Defended Annul, and did a soft attempt at keeping the bandwagon on Orgolove. Right now really the only thing saving him is that he's playing similar to his last game as town.
How nice of you to put your thoughts in your list. Now we know who NOT to lynch. Hint: you contributed to four lynches so far, and you hit 2 blue and 2 green out of it. The only lynch you tried to dissuade people from - annul - we actually hit a red. Coincidence? I think not.
And "holidays" my ass. I've been having positive contributions to town way more than your "analysis." You apologize about how you're going to be inactive the next few days, then claim I don't post enough? Riiight.
On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
Finally, remember everyone should claim to Opz. He is confirmed, 100%. Let me repeat that. Him being vigi is the ONLY POSSIBLE way for three kills to have happened that night.
The sole remaining DT, you are the most important person right now. The people who you have found green are confirmed without a shadow of a doubt. The people who are found red you should tell Opz and then he will say so in thread so you remain safe.
Medics need to claim so more coordination.
Hatters need to claim for more coordination.
There is no reason for anyone not to claim to Opz.
Yeah right. If ~OpZ~ indeed was a town-aligned , then why did he hit RoL, of all people, instead of an inactive, as he originally claimed? Even if he's town-aligned, I can't trust him to be smart enough to coordinate the remaining blues to the town's benefit.
You. Need. To. Stop. Talking.
Your "good-old fashioned scumhunting" killed four townies, two of them blue, and led us to waste our double lynch.
Your open IRC idea was shit. Utterly shit. All it did was give scum even more tools to manipulate the votes and opinions of the town.
Care to hurt us any more? If, as you claim, the mafia's going to perma roleblock you, then you no longer have any value to us. So quit talking.
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And town, we need the double lynch again. We may have been unlucky the last time, but the reds can't possibly sneak their way out of it two times in a row. And the double lynch is our last tool remaining.
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Orgo originally I just thought you were either really really defensive or a dt who had checked me red(mafia framed me), but now seriously you're being really scummy.
First off, I was wrong about LSB, I admit that. But he was acting really shady and just being wrong doesn't mean anything, as Meapak has shown. Furthormore, you admit "GC was acting so scummy we had no choice but to lynch him", and now you accuse me?
Finally I was the one who told Barundar to post an analysis on annul, and I was the one who said we should think about whether lynching you or annul. And I, along with others, decided to lynch annul. Even though I had already said beforehand I felt he was a good lynch for the other day.
Finally, maybe your (anger of me?) is impacting your reason, but there is no way there could have been 3 hits used on night 2 unless a vigi used it. And given that Opz is the only one who said it, then he is confirmed without a doubt.
The IRC has been grand and helped generate discussion. Maybe if you'd actually join you'd see that.
As for my fake claim, it was a great move. I ask anyone to say they were roleblocked, no one will(and if they do, we will find a mafia.) I have been roleblocked two nights in a row, and unless you seriously think mafia would roleblock either someone they would kill(so why roleblock) or themselves(for two nights? And how long would it have continued, in your theory, had opz not revealed me)?
Now, why do you think Darth is a good lynch, Orgolove?
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Stupid question time. Was TL down most of the day or am I having access issues at work?
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I don't think a double lynch is the wisest move for tomorrow.
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On January 07 2011 06:27 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
Okay hi I'm back. First off I have some bad news. I'm going to a model UN conference and won't be back until Sunday around 5PM. So until then I can't help you scum hunt. However, there are a couple things I want to comment on/note/talk about. Good. Town can stop sheeping to your fake DT claim and actually learn to think for themselves. My ass. Your only "check" you've revealed was that DrH was green. AFTER he was killed. Good job. And surprise surprise, for two days in a row, the reds never even came close to hitting you, despite your early claim as DT - aka highest priority target. Hmmmm. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
This indicates to me that mafia will probably keep on doing this because:
1)They know I'm DT, and this will be a succeful roleblock
2.)They might try to cast doubt on my role as DT
Sure. Just like they blocked you on day 2 and day 3, and you never claimed to be roleblocked on day 2. Right. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:But I still have good fashioned scum hunting, so I'm going to leave you with a bit of my thoughts. Let's take a look at the player list:3. SeRapH 5. Brocket 6. TheMango 7. Mr.Zergling 8. why 9. Jackal58 11. jcarlsoniv Barundar 15. ShoCkeyy 17. ilovejonn 18. Insanious 19. Orgolove 24. d3_crescentia 29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn Given that mafia KP went down after 2 died, and the fact that most likely there were 6/7(likely 6, 7 seems too big) mafia in the start, the formula for mafia kp is most likely # of mafia/2. So now there are probably either 4/5(likely 4) mafia remaining. I figure one of the best things I can do to help figure out who's still suspicious is to seperate the pro town from the rest. First off, who's pro town in my eyes: Me: Opz:Confirmed Mr. Wiggles: Posts long posts when he does, good content in them Barundar: Has been with me in a while, good reads from him on irc. In addition contributing to discussion. Insanious: Like Barundar, except not in constant contact with me. Still, very pro town in my eyes. Why: Doesn't post much, but those posts are long when he does. People who I feel are likely town, but less sure of: Jackal58
The Mango
Shockeyy
People Who I don't know:Soulfire- seriously need to post more Tree hugger-posts long, but hardly posts People who I think are mafia but unsure D3-hardly posts except when pressured. Seraph-RoL's main suspect, this guy has been pretty suspicious. Aside from an analysis about Soulfire, Seraph hasn't really contributed that much. People I think are mafia IloveJonn-from weak thoughts to excuses for not analyzing, from making contradictions like saying we shouldn't just follow what other people think and then vote someone based on what someone else said, for weak vote reasons, this guy is suspicious. Orgolove-Come on, it really can't still be considered "the holidays." Mr Zergling Has been playing really scummy. For example, said in beginning we should be lynching inactives and then hasn't voted for an inactive sent. Defended Annul, and did a soft attempt at keeping the bandwagon on Orgolove. Right now really the only thing saving him is that he's playing similar to his last game as town. How nice of you to put your thoughts in your list. Now we know who NOT to lynch. Hint: you contributed to four lynches so far, and you hit 2 blue and 2 green out of it. The only lynch you tried to dissuade people from - annul - we actually hit a red. Coincidence? I think not. And "holidays" my ass. I've been having positive contributions to town way more than your "analysis." You apologize about how you're going to be inactive the next few days, then claim I don't post enough? Riiight. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
Finally, remember everyone should claim to Opz. He is confirmed, 100%. Let me repeat that. Him being vigi is the ONLY POSSIBLE way for three kills to have happened that night.
The sole remaining DT, you are the most important person right now. The people who you have found green are confirmed without a shadow of a doubt. The people who are found red you should tell Opz and then he will say so in thread so you remain safe.
Medics need to claim so more coordination.
Hatters need to claim for more coordination.
There is no reason for anyone not to claim to Opz. Yeah right. If ~OpZ~ indeed was a town-aligned , then why did he hit RoL, of all people, instead of an inactive, as he originally claimed? Even if he's town-aligned, I can't trust him to be smart enough to coordinate the remaining blues to the town's benefit. You. Need. To. Stop. Talking. Your "good-old fashioned scumhunting" killed four townies, two of them blue, and led us to waste our double lynch. Your open IRC idea was shit. Utterly shit. All it did was give scum even more tools to manipulate the votes and opinions of the town. Care to hurt us any more? If, as you claim, the mafia's going to perma roleblock you, then you no longer have any value to us. So quit talking. -------------- And town, we need the double lynch again. We may have been unlucky the last time, but the reds can't possibly sneak their way out of it two times in a row. And the double lynch is our last tool remaining.
THE MATH ALONE PROVES IM TOWN ARE YOU...@_@....Honestly....I would just hope you werent that....arghh..
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On January 07 2011 12:31 Insanious wrote:
##vote shockeyy
Can you post in thread?
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Ok, so I was out ice-fishing all day (didn't catch a thing  ), so I haven't been able to post yet. I had an initial gut reaction to last night's red kills, but decided to wait until today to post, after mulling it over for a while.
The night-kills suggest to me that mafia is trying to make Barundar and Pandain look red to town.
Mafia so far have seemed to be killing:
A) Active players who are contributing "actual" content and discussion in the post.
B) Experienced players who have played games of Mafia before.
As far as I can tell, every player killed so far fits this criteria. Barundar and Pandain fit this criteria as well. They both have been very active, contributing, and have played several games of Mafia in the past.
This has unsurprisingly led people to ask why they are not being targeted by mafia kp. Are these two really mafia? What is happening? Why aren't they dying?
I believe there could be several reasons for this. Firstly, Barundar and Pandain have been actively posting throughout the entire thread. Pandain has role-claimed DT as well. This could lead mafia to believe that they are likely candidates to attract medic protection, and as such they have chosen to hit other people who fit their criteria, but who have not been as outspoken for as long a period of time, and are less likely to attract the medic.
As well, both of these players have had suspicions laid against them, and have been fingered as mafia. By targeting other active experienced players and leaving these two alive, suspicions against them have risen with each day and night which passes.
Mafia has yet to kill a blue themselves. (Good aim, huh?). So perhaps they see that some people are eager to lynch Pandain and Barundar, and are maybe pushing it themselves, hoping to accomplish their deaths through town lynch, enabling them to hit other targets throughout the night.
If these two were mafia, why would they target other experienced and active players only, and not mix in some newbs or semi-actives. By doing what they have been doing, it is far to easy to separate Pandain and Barundar from the rest of the players and call them out for surviving, which would seem to be a stupid move for mafia, to make themselves easily visible.
From my PM's, irc, and what has been posted in this thread, I am of the personal belief that Barundar and Pandain are town. However, that is no reason to trust them, nor anyone else for that matter, including myself, so take all posts with a grain of salt.
This is why it is of the utmost importance to town that someone claims vig in a post, if they are the one who committed the extra kp night 2, and know Opz is lying about his role-claim. Otherwise, and this seems more likely considering the lack of a counter-claim still, Opz is a confirmed townie, and people should role-claim to him.
People should also post in thread if they are role-blocked. Mafia knows who they role-blocked, the town does not. This would also help us determine if people claiming to have been role-blocked (like Pandain) are lying or not if we get conflicting reports.
If DT's are hesitant to role-claim to Opz, they should get someone they've confirmed as town, (at least one person should've come up green by this point I would hope), to talk to Opz for them and be their PM mouth. We need to form unity as a town, and get some kind of confirmed circle started if we want to start scum-hunting more effectively.
The dwindling discussion is also concerning. As more active players are being killed, there is less posts in the thread. So hopefully this post provides at least something for people to talk about.
These are my opinions, anyways.
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EPT
