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On February 23 2016 02:42 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 01:39 justanothertownie wrote:
Why on earth are games that are obviously not normal constantly getting in the normal mini queue? Are you referring to the third parties in question? I know a lot of people don't like third parties but third party survivors/SKs are normal roles. That said, I will keep them out of all my normal games personally because I'm aware enough people here don't like them. If I get the chance to run a themed game though, I will incorporate them, pending balance/other dynamics.
While third parties suck balls regardless of themed game or not I was talking about hapas game.
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My last game was considered normal. IML is not used much anymore, but it is a "normal" voting format.
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On February 23 2016 03:44 Hapahauli wrote:
My last game was considered normal. IML is not used much anymore, but it is a "normal" voting format.
On February 23 2016 01:39 justanothertownie wrote:
Why on earth are games that are obviously not normal constantly getting in the normal mini queue?
Exactly. It's not a normal voting format and in this case it isn't even "normal" IML.
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Because I can't take all this freedom.
But seriously, what's the point of the normal mini queue like this? I thought it was to ensure that everyone who just wants to play a normal game of mafia can do that whenever he wants. Recently there seem to be more crazy games with unusual mechanics then actual normal games in this queue.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 23 2016 05:50 justanothertownie wrote:
Because I can't take all this freedom.
But seriously, what's the point of the normal mini queue like this? I thought it was to ensure that everyone who just wants to play a normal game of mafia can do that whenever he wants. Recently there seem to be more crazy games with unusual mechanics then actual normal games in this queue.
There's no set of "rules" to define what a normal game is. As a result there's some leniency on what normal means as everyone has their own definition. If you think this should be changed you can certainly motion to do so, though twice in the past a vast majority of hosts and players were against making strict definitions to what a "normal" game means (maybe times have changed).
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On February 23 2016 06:14 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 05:50 justanothertownie wrote:
Because I can't take all this freedom.
But seriously, what's the point of the normal mini queue like this? I thought it was to ensure that everyone who just wants to play a normal game of mafia can do that whenever he wants. Recently there seem to be more crazy games with unusual mechanics then actual normal games in this queue. There's no set of "rules" to define what a normal game is. As a result there's some leniency on what normal means as everyone has their own definition. If you think this should be changed you can certainly motion to do so, though twice in the past a vast majority of hosts and players were against making strict definitions to what a "normal" game means (maybe times have changed).
I just don't see the point in this queue then if everyone can come up and say "hey add my game" regardless of the kind of game he is planning to host. Sure, some degree of leniency is ok we are talking about small things. But IML is a huge fucking deal. It makes it a completely different game.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On February 23 2016 06:20 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 06:14 Foolishness wrote:On February 23 2016 05:50 justanothertownie wrote:
Because I can't take all this freedom.
But seriously, what's the point of the normal mini queue like this? I thought it was to ensure that everyone who just wants to play a normal game of mafia can do that whenever he wants. Recently there seem to be more crazy games with unusual mechanics then actual normal games in this queue. There's no set of "rules" to define what a normal game is. As a result there's some leniency on what normal means as everyone has their own definition. If you think this should be changed you can certainly motion to do so, though twice in the past a vast majority of hosts and players were against making strict definitions to what a "normal" game means (maybe times have changed). I just don't see the point in this queue then if everyone can come up and say "hey add my game" regardless of the kind of game he is planning to host. Sure, some degree of leniency is ok we are talking about small things. But IML is a huge fucking deal. It makes it a completely different game.
IMO a normal game that has IML is still normal. I mean, IML is definitely different from deadline plurality lynch or deadline majority lynch, but so is a game with 15 people different from a game with 5 people or 7 people or 13 people, or a game without cops of any kind, or a game with tracker/watcher instead of cops, and so on. Normal has lots of variety in it. Maybe that means we should have a different definition of Normal if most people want Normal to mean something very strict, but as it is now Normal is quite flexible.
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FWIW, I understand what you are trying to get at JAT, but assuming an m9/m13 game, there's nothing preventing you from also voicing your opinion once a game in question goes up if it's a lynch mechanic you're complaining on. Take Gaiden/Gaiden 2 for example, there was enough whining about majority lynch that IIRC (I forget which one) it was canned. I would think most hosts want to see their games fill up and enough of them are sensible enough to listen to the community. At the same time, some hosts are also aware it's never a bad thing to add some variety, just speak up in the respective game thread (IMO) if you think the community wants more of the same. Or start an actual thread requiring an official definition as BH alluded.
FWIW, I can see newer players to TL complain about something like this and that might be one community-based reason to support complete traditional setups and if I see enough of them speak up saying "keep it simple", will do.
IDK, I think as the lynch mechanics are relatively normal (IML, normal or rolling deadline majority, plurality) it's fine by me to be called normal, things like mayor/cell/resistance/shootout IMO fall in the themed category for me.
Not trying to be antagonistic, just my input there. I also hate IML for the record as a player and will never sign up for a game with IML (given my experience with players getting mislynched when I'm asleep but I digress), but I understand the arguments for its use.
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On February 23 2016 06:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 06:20 justanothertownie wrote:On February 23 2016 06:14 Foolishness wrote:On February 23 2016 05:50 justanothertownie wrote:
Because I can't take all this freedom.
But seriously, what's the point of the normal mini queue like this? I thought it was to ensure that everyone who just wants to play a normal game of mafia can do that whenever he wants. Recently there seem to be more crazy games with unusual mechanics then actual normal games in this queue. There's no set of "rules" to define what a normal game is. As a result there's some leniency on what normal means as everyone has their own definition. If you think this should be changed you can certainly motion to do so, though twice in the past a vast majority of hosts and players were against making strict definitions to what a "normal" game means (maybe times have changed). I just don't see the point in this queue then if everyone can come up and say "hey add my game" regardless of the kind of game he is planning to host. Sure, some degree of leniency is ok we are talking about small things. But IML is a huge fucking deal. It makes it a completely different game. IMO a normal game that has IML is still normal. I mean, IML is definitely different from deadline plurality lynch or deadline majority lynch, but so is a game with 15 people different from a game with 5 people or 7 people or 13 people, or a game without cops of any kind, or a game with tracker/watcher instead of cops, and so on. Normal has lots of variety in it. Maybe that means we should have a different definition of Normal if most people want Normal to mean something very strict, but as it is now Normal is quite flexible.
Then I repeat my question: what's the point of this queue?
And yes, IML matters a whole lot more than all of the other stuff you are mentioning here. The amount of players does not change the way the game has to be played and it is limited anyways (normal MINI). Of course the roles have an influence but as long as they are common ones this is indeed part of normal games (here we have a case of the leniency foolishness was talking about).
IML on the other hand changes the way the game is played completely. None of this other stuff does.
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On February 23 2016 07:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Not trying to be antagonistic, just my input there. I also hate IML for the record as a player and will never sign up for a game with IML (given my experience with players getting mislynched when I'm asleep but I digress), but I understand the arguments for its use.
EXACTLY. It changes the whole game. Why on earth do you consider that normal?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I guess I've always considered IML to be more "normal" than deadline based lynches but that's just me. Deadline lynches... yeah. Very very different.
In any case, probably part of the reason for the past 2 months there haven't been as many normal minis is that I haven't been hosting the newbie games so many normal mini hosts are hosting those instead (which are open to the general populace for signing up!), and given the huge quantity of newbie games I host, making up for my absence as a host is probably pulling many normal mini hosts away from it
I'd recommend people help out by hosting normal mini games and newbie games!
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On February 23 2016 07:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I guess I've always considered IML to be more "normal" than deadline based lynches but that's just me. Deadline lynches... yeah. Very very different.
In any case, probably part of the reason for the past 2 months there haven't been as many normal minis is that I haven't been hosting the newbie games so many normal mini hosts are hosting those instead (which are open to the general populace for signing up!), and given the huge quantity of newbie games I host, making up for my absence as a host is probably pulling many normal mini hosts away from it
I'd recommend people help out by hosting normal mini games and newbie games!
There isn't even a normal newbie game going up atm...
I really have nothing against people hosting/playing unsual games it just annoys me that there will be no normal game on the horizon for quite a while.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On February 23 2016 07:44 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 07:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I guess I've always considered IML to be more "normal" than deadline based lynches but that's just me. Deadline lynches... yeah. Very very different.
In any case, probably part of the reason for the past 2 months there haven't been as many normal minis is that I haven't been hosting the newbie games so many normal mini hosts are hosting those instead (which are open to the general populace for signing up!), and given the huge quantity of newbie games I host, making up for my absence as a host is probably pulling many normal mini hosts away from it
I'd recommend people help out by hosting normal mini games and newbie games! There isn't even a normal newbie game going up atm... I really have nothing against people hosting/playing unsual games it just annoys me that there will be no normal game on the horizon for quite a while.
Yeah, good point! Even more reason to jump in to hosting if you can spare the time!
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Canada11355 Posts
please add [M][N] A normal game just for JAT <3 to the queue.
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On February 23 2016 09:33 Fecalfeast wrote:
please add [M][N] A normal game just for JAT <3 to the queue.
<3 pooping champion
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Mine was about normal as it gets its a shame jat didn't have time when it was signing up.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 23 2016 07:18 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 07:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Not trying to be antagonistic, just my input there. I also hate IML for the record as a player and will never sign up for a game with IML (given my experience with players getting mislynched when I'm asleep but I digress), but I understand the arguments for its use. EXACTLY. It changes the whole game. Why on earth do you consider that normal?
There is no strict definition of "normal" so as a result the entire thing is subjective. As Blazinghand said you could also voice the argument that a game with 7 players is a drastically different game than one with 16 players. It all depends on your definition of normal. Everyone is going to have a different definition. Some (me) will think a PM game is completely normal. Other's don't.
So you may think recent games aren't normal, but then a string of games that are normal for you will be complained about by someone else. Again the way to fix this problem is to have a strict definition of normal. There's not really a middle ground (or rather, we're already in the middle ground depending on your view). But people don't feel that's the best way to handle things.
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On February 24 2016 14:48 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 07:18 justanothertownie wrote:On February 23 2016 07:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Not trying to be antagonistic, just my input there. I also hate IML for the record as a player and will never sign up for a game with IML (given my experience with players getting mislynched when I'm asleep but I digress), but I understand the arguments for its use. EXACTLY. It changes the whole game. Why on earth do you consider that normal? There is no strict definition of "normal" so as a result the entire thing is subjective. As Blazinghand said you could also voice the argument that a game with 7 players is a drastically different game than one with 16 players. It all depends on your definition of normal. Everyone is going to have a different definition. Some (me) will think a PM game is completely normal. Other's don't. So you may think recent games aren't normal, but then a string of games that are normal for you will be complained about by someone else. Again the way to fix this problem is to have a strict definition of normal. There's not really a middle ground (or rather, we're already in the middle ground depending on your view). But people don't feel that's the best way to handle things.
I am pretty sure there would not be many active people who would consider a game which I call normal not normal. I mean I see your point but fact is that your player number argument for example doesn't hold water because it really does not change the game at all. You might consider a pm game normal but that is because you mostly played in a different era of TL mafia where pm games WERE normal. Today they are not.
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EPT
