BC and RoL: Salem Mafia

On November 15 2010 07:36 chaoser wrote:
I'M BACK!

/IN

WHERES PANDAIN!?!?

EDIT: Is it too late =/. I'll be replacement I guess =[[[[

On November 22 2010 10:56 flamewheel wrote:
You learn to read!

Spamming posts for pre-game meta meta.

On November 27 2010 13:44 annul wrote:
what better way to teach the game than to show them precisely what the "non-learning" games are all about?

but okay, sure. real analysis?

the only thing we need now is pandain to attempt to get people to claim to him in PMs and to start a circle and we have a standard TL mafia game. drh is already vying for day 1 leader so we are certainly off to the normal start.

thing of note is that the OP explicitly says not all roles may exist in the game. dont do analysis assuming all these roles are there, especially when trying to reverse engineer rolecounts through the guise of "well, THIS is balanced!" etc.

also if this is a "learning game" then i guess we should stick to the bread and butter playstyles and not go all out with crazy trickeries and gambits and stuff

On November 27 2010 13:51 annul wrote:
ps i voted for darth because a random vote on drh is pretty frowntown given the daily circumstances

On November 27 2010 14:15 annul wrote:
haunted and insane actually had a lot of content to discuss on day 1, surprisingly enough

-----------------------------------------
Original Message From Pandain:
wow thats definitely suscipcious
-----------------------------------------
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
maybe

i didnt like his response to my pm




why does he trust me and say "despite his defense of you", why would defending me make coagulation innocent unless he knew I was town?

doesnt seem like something a townie would say

-----------------------------------------
Original Message From Pandain:
i voted annul. I think it's pretty suscipcious how he's posting, only "contributed" after being called out on that. In addition, it seems to me he's just trying to contribute without really contributing, if you take a look at his posts its either spam or "Well..so far everything is normal." Hasn't offered any thoughts. Usually he does, so what do you think?

On November 28 2010 10:02 deconduo wrote:


Lol, its not insane mafia.

I think I'll vote for kenpachi. He has not been an asset to town, so either he is being lazy or he is not trying to help town.
The other leading candidate for lynch, pandain, at least has taken the time to post analysis of some people.
I would much rather lynch a person who is not productive than a person who actively contributes.

On November 28 2010 08:12 EsbenPM wrote:
Hmm, i'm going to vote Brownbear for now as his action seems the strangest so far. As people has pointed out all he has done is trying to get discussion going and then disapear with no follow up what so ever. While the case aganist him is kindda weak i feel lynching an inactive(Who supposedly played the same way and was mafia) is better then lynching players who are actually posting and can be caught at a later time.

Besides him the main candidates Kenpachi and Pandain just seems like people who have become targetted because there are no one else. Kenpachi have acted strange/dum, but i feel like people are looking too hard for something that aint there, and the main case aganist pandain was his inactivity which he has cleared up, so for now i don't want to vote for either of them.

On November 28 2010 08:50 youngminii wrote:
lol DrH, role fishing like that in a learning game, not a very cool move.

Out of Kenpachi and BB who seem to be the lynch candidates (besides me kinda) I'd have to go for Kenpachi. I don't really want to vote for any of them but Kenpachi's cluelessness/reluctance to defend himself is more worrying than the reasons against BB.

Sorry

On November 28 2010 09:24 Aeres wrote:

I said my vote wasn't absolute, because I wouldn't have been able to foresee major events happening between the time of my vote and the lynching. I still think you're a prime candidate for a lynch, due in part to your past apathy and your current fishiness. The annul analysis seems most convincing in my eyes, so I would have voted for him if it weren't for the fact that it's only you and BrownBear that are viable lynchees tonight. Since I'd rather make my vote matter, and because I'm not sold on BrownBear just yet, my vote remains on you.

I just realized that I've been particularly antagonistic to you in every game I've played with you. Understand, I'm not holding a grudge, but I'm just working off what I know about your behavior and tendencies. No hard feelings.

On November 28 2010 09:44 Aeres wrote:

If I may be candid, it's not that I think you're Mafia, it's that I felt you were a liability regardless of your alignment. If you ARE Mafia, then lynching you is obviously a thumbs up for the town, but based on my past observations of your play, your town game is... lacking.

But... you have a point there.

I've decided to be a gentleman and give you the benefit of the doubt. Your posting frequency and quality have definitely improved from Haunted, so I'll let you off the hook. My vote will be changed to BrownBear now.

But now the onus is on you. Convince me that this vote switch is warranted, and prove to me that you're not the couch potato you were in October! =D


... whoops. *hides*

On November 28 2010 04:00 Aeres wrote:
##Unvote femalewheel (lol)
##Vote Kenpachi

Another placeholder, but more concrete this time. Kenpachi's play has been apathetic at best in recent games, so for now, I'll vote for him. Nothing definite, but until / unless some major development occurs in the thread or in PMs or something, I'm all for the lynch of a confirmed lurker.

On November 28 2010 09:50 ghrur wrote:
Well, Pandain's posted since I was last on, and now it seems it's between Kenpachi and Brownbear.

Let's compare:
Kenpachi has been open
Kenpachi is really trying to improve
Kenpachi has been more active in the thread
Brownbear also seems to be less concentrated because he apparently didn't even read the OP.

Overall, I think that, from a perspective outside the game, we should keep Kenpachi in so he can learn more because this is a bootcamp game.
From a perspective inside the game, despite Kenpachi's lacking history, Brownbear honestly isn't a better town candidate. He's just as, if not more, clueless talking about voting for mayor and such. Furthermore, he hasn't even tried to clear his name. He hasn't even been shown to be on. EZ choice imo.

On November 29 2010 12:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'd bet money that you aren't the chaos ensurgent. Pandain just wants to think he's struck gold.

You're backed into a corner and tbh in my mind it's a stalemate between you being mafia or node/youngminii/dta being mafia. You're suspicious based on objective principles but DTA/Youngminii/Node have all ACTED very scummy to me. But the inconsistency lies with Ghrur.

On November 29 2010 12:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i'm starting to know you? uh what does that mean exactly

On December 01 2010 05:51 DarthThienAn wrote:
I'd be more willing to switch from Kenpachi if exactly what I was seeing wasn't happening (ie. late push to switch). We can definitely get info out of lynching him. If he flips town, we can look for a more even distribution between bandwagons by mafia members the first day. If mafia, then we check BB's bandwagon, blah blah all this pointed out before.

To change now might be exactly what the mafia what. Granted, he might be town. But I don't want to risk the chance that he's mafia and then let him get away because the town is wishy washy -__-.


For those of you commenting on my "lying", yea, I did lie. Initially, I was being cautious with DrH, but I was convinced that he was town pretty quickly - I continued to pressure him just to check his reaction, but after the first day or so, I posted my actual thoughts. Why? Because the first day is generally "oh there's nothing to talk about," so you have to make it something to talk about.



There is now! And if he is a CE, we still want to kill him... not sure what that part of your post is about.

On December 01 2010 07:47 Glasse wrote:


and why the sudden change?

On December 01 2010 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
incognitos laughing is impacting this game by leading me to believe he is laughing because we just switched from mafia to townie

ace did the same thing in dont lose yo villlage and it made me think "he's probably laughing because both me and ym are townies"

you all shouldn't do that imo

On December 01 2010 09:51 Coagulation wrote:
wtf are you serious

its not gonna happen theres like 5 minutes left
dont be stupid
it doesnt even matter anyway kenpachi is being stupid and changed his vote so hes gonna get lynched anyway.

Town circles are tricky, and should always be conducted on a need to know basis. We have both a miller and godfather, which severely slows down a potential Town Circle. If you're a dt, no one needs to know you're a dt until you find a red, and at that point you can go through an intermediary (someone you've already checked, who is likely[though not certainly] town aligned) and get them to speak up in the thread. The identity of the dt is biggest secret that needs to be kept.

Once the godfather goes down, the town circle will become immensely powerful. Keep in mind though, that the ONLY way to catch the godfather is through post analysis, and that as long as the gf is alive, the town circle is flawed. Hence, we need to focus on post analysis first, and town circles second.

I don't think there are any (good) hard and fast rules for dealing with roleclaiming in thread. Each needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis. If someone roleclaims out of the blue, that needs to be dealt with very differently then someone roleclaiming on death row.

We don't necessarily need to worry about the medics and dt's just yet. The mafia have all day to choose who will be the godfather, so offering the dt options at this point is somewhat useless. Doctors go with their gut or anyone they think is particularly valuable.

The role that really needs to be discussed is the Paranoid Villager(vigilante). Do NOT fire until there is good reason to do so. A well timed vig shot can be very, very useful as the game progresses, because it can give the town what amounts to a double lynch. eg. you have 2 lynch candidates on day 3, instead of overly worrying about who to kill, you simply lynch one and vig the other during the night. This saves both a lynch, and a potential dt check.

As far as Vet and Mad Hatter, there are lots of options for sneaky plays to draw hits, but you don't necessarily need to get carried away. Reasoned discussion and good posting is normally enough to get shot.

On November 27 2010 06:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Alright so town circle stuff, here is what I know:

I know one player who is almost certainly a confirmed medic
I know one player who is either a blue role or a red role (not green)


There is absolutely no way that someone can be almost certainly confirmed at this point in the game. Not to mention, there is no way any medic can be confirmed in this set-up, because no one is notified if they took a hit and were medic saved. Wow, what a perfect cover for the GF.....

What you actually know is that two players are either red or blue(I'm assuming the other player roleclaimed blue). I'll admit that a roleclaim at this point is so strange it's probably true, but again, the only player who has nothing to lose from a roleclaim at this point is the GF.

also if he is mafia, i have him in a trap. if he is a mafia medic i can make sure certain people don't get hit, thus almost being something of a medic role myself, because if he tells me "i'm protecting player x" and then player x dies along with 2 others then he's in deep shit


Obviously the mafia just won't kill player x in this case. Yes it keeps them alive, but it slowly and surely leaks the town circle.

Honestly, the only people who can be trusting at this point are mafia. Why? Because they know who all the townies are, so of course they can be trusting. Stop roleclaiming in PMs people! I don't care if you're green or not, every PM roleclaim hurts the town at this point. The town circle needs to be build from the dt(s) outwards, not from random flying PMs.

What circle!? NO ONE SHOULD BE PMING DR H THEIR ROLES.

It's day 1 folks, that means zero dt checks have been done, and the mafia haven't even chosen the godfather. This is a great way to lose the game on day 1.....

Dr H is actively calling for roleclaims on Day 1!? Does this not alarm anyone else? Basically as far as i can tell, the idea is to put our faith in Dr H(for no reason) and hope he's not mafia. Because if he IS mafia, and there's nothing indicating he isn't, then our blues get completely hung out to dry. Why would we ever gamble like this?

No roleclaims people. Today is about lynching and forcing people to vote and post, not about giving away what advantage we have.

On November 27 2010 12:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i'm not asking anybody to roleclaim to me, where are you getting that idea? i presented a few ideas for a possible town circle and asked town to discuss them.



You aren't coming out directly and saying it, but you're certainly insinuating it.

if he is willing, my current proposition is to have him protect me like a bodyguard indefinitely and then I can coordinate the town network but there are problems with that:

-you guys have to trust me, but I think I proved my leadership prowess in Insane Mafia and I promise to improve as town in this game (if youngminii doesn't shoot me)


the best thing is that only one person will know peoples roles and if I'm telling people about what others are saying I'll refer to them only as "the medic" "the DT" etc.


Also, your story doesn't match up:


No mention of Shutting up etc
+ Show Spoiler +


I realize this isn't much, but come on... you only told us 1 single detail about your PM conversation, but then when you show us the convo it's not there? What are we really supposed to think?? Care to explain?

MEDICCLAIMER:
you're a much better player then me.
I'm taking a gamble assuming your town.. but I already claimed to you. so if i die i die. however if you are really town then I will be best off working with you.

-----------------------------------------
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
maybe

why so submissive? it's making me feel weird

-----------------------------------------
Original Message From MEDICCLAIMER:
I will let you call the shots.
just pm who you want me to protect.
I can prot you night 1 if you want.

-----------------------------------------
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
Please tell me who you protect each night. That way I can be sure you aren't mafia faking medic and if you just pick bullshit like random inactives for no reason then it'll be pretty obvious you're scum.

If I know the name of a confirmed townie, I'll tell you so you can tell that person who you're protecting ahead of time. Maybe.

If you do trust me you can tell me ahead of time. Because if it turns out that you protect someone and two people die (including them) and vet doesn't claim the hit then you're mafia.

I trust you though, I don't think mafia would just blueclaim to me so brazenly and quickly. Don't claim to anyone else btw, just keep it on the down low. I'm going to try to start a town circle. If I find anyone who can be trusted, I'll refer you to them. There needs to be a level of disconnection so mafia/GF don't fuck everything up. I'm still trying to think of a safe link system or something

i'll let u know

Whats funny is it hardly even implies it. It's obvious that he was scrambling to try to save himself. I mean, just because he said he said he has leadership prowers and will try to improve as town doesn't exactly scream to me, "ROLECLAIM TO ME
OK, we're running out of time here. There's absolutely no reason that people should be able to coast through Day 1.

Voting Pandain until he posts some content, then moving down the list of people who i know should be posting more content. If Day 1 becomes about pressure votes, so be it. We can't analyse posts if there are none....

5. Scaramanga
6. Kenpachi
7. Amber[light
11. youngminii
15. deconduo

OK, Pandain has posted, Scara you're next.

5. Scaramanga
6. Kenpachi
7. Amber[light
11. youngminii
15. deconduo

Artanis is not on that list because he had one meaty post at that point, and because he was modkilled in the only game i remember playing with him(ie I didn't actually expect him to post more)

You'll notice that there are other players who were inactive who didn't make the list(rocco etc.) The players on that list are either people i'd played with before, or people who are highly active on TL. That list was not meant as a definitive inactivity list, it was meant as a pressure tool for people who I know can play decently.

Town Circles

We should not be checking DoctorH to try and make him the centerpiece of some grand PM circle. If he IS mafia, then he's obviously the godfather, so checking him is a waste. If we want to make a PM circle, dt's need to go about it in the same conservative fashion as always, and need to pick someone other than DH to start with. Players spotlight themselves for different reasons, but one of those reasons is because they are scum. Take a look at BB:

On November 27 2010 05:56 BrownBear wrote:
And so far, nobody has really shown themselves to be either particularly pro or anti-town. For now, I'm voting myself for mayor as a placeholder (although I actually might try to run, depending on the other candidates). I'm starting to think it might be just a great idea to just start throwing votes-for-lynch on the nonspeakers, try and get them to talk. If we can't find anyone, this game is large enough for us to get away with lynching an inactive purely based on their inactivity, at least the first day. To that end, I'm voting that the mayor should lynch georgeclooney. Get to talkin' boy.


Before Brownbear went AFK, he basically started a campaign for mayor. Yes, there is no mayor and it was stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that he still ran for it. This immediatly pegged BB as either red or blue, since townies should only be running for mayor if they are extremely strong players, which BB knows he is not(no offence, but only about 4/5 players fall into this category on this site). Turns out he was Black in this case, but that's close enough.

My town circle advice for ALL players is this: Ignore it. If it forms, it forms, but don't try to force it. This game, just like most mafia games before it, will be won or lost by scumhunting, not by PM circles. Focusing on a town circle removes responsibility from players to actually do the work of combing the thread for scummy posts. It also places all our eggs in one basket.




All new players take note, no wiser words have been spoken. This game is about focusing on who is MAFIA, not who is town. How many times have you used the ALL function to CTRL-F through the thread for a certain players posts? I have done it dozens of times so far, and will continue to do it dozens more before i die(hopefully more than ~12hrs from now). I suggest everyone else do the same.

Night Actions:

We have two possible actions to discuss right now, DT and Medic. Hatters are on their own as always, and PV should be holding their shot for now. If you are a newb and got the mad hatter role, place a bomb tonight. Place it on either whomever you think is scummiest, or if you have no idea, whomever you think will most likely be lynched by the town (Killing the likeliest lynchee probably saves us a lynch).

Doctors protect either whomever you think is likeliest to die, or whomever you think is most valuable to town.

Dt's should be looking hard for scum. Priority #1 is finding mafia, priority #2 is building a town circle. Keep that in mind.

On November 28 2010 22:09 Radfield wrote:










Can one of you please explain what went on here??








This is very true, and an excellent obs. Looking at how the voting went down:

Kenpachi 3
BB 1

this is where we stand with about 4 hours remaining, then:

Jimboslivers -- BB
DrH -- BB
KtheZ--KP
Kenpachi -- BB
Pandain -- BB
Node -- KP
EsbenPM -- BB
Youngmini -- KP
Southrawrea -- BB
Deconduo -- KP(test)
Darth -- KP(test)

It is now 8 for KP, 7 for BB

Aeres -- switch from KP to BB
ghrur -- BB

The changed vote puts BB in the chair, and the vote from ghrur throws the switch. The test by DTA and deconduo succeeds. Keep in mind that BB is a townie for these purposes, because mafia have no reason to think otherwise.

Seems to me that Kenpachi should almost certainly be checked or lynched, as his alignment gives us some quality info. Assuming he flips red, that gives us EsbenPM, Southrawrea, Aeres and ghrur as the final votes coming down the wire. Aeres with the all important switched vote becomes highly suspicious(yes he voted for KP earlier, but it was just a placeholder). The other BB voters are Pandain, DrH and Jimboslivers. If he flips green, it's a dead end since both would be townies and the mafia would likely be split between them.

This seems far too juicy to gloss over, as a little pushing could net us a huge gain. Thoughts?

On November 29 2010 07:46 Radfield wrote:
This is a blessing in disguise. Every person in this game(including myself) need to work on their scumhunting skills, and realize that blue roles are only icing.

Since the dawn is fast approaching, it's time for me post before i die(62.5%).

Likely players with roles(ie Blue or Red, if they turn up green be mildly suspicious)
Annul
Amber
Youngminii
Kitaman
Artanis
Barundar
Southrawrea

As always though, things don't really get cooking until Day 2. If a medic saw it in his heart to pay me a visit tonight, I would not object.

I highly recommend all new players check out Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX. In fact, i recommend ALL players check it out. It's worth both a read and a re-read. Ace's guide to being mafia is also very worth reading.

On November 30 2010 02:20 Radfield wrote:
My apologies everyone, I've had a bit of a crisis at my house. I will try to pick this up tonight/tomorrow, or if RoL has replacements lined up that works for me too. I just need a bit of time

OK, this day is in danger of becoming a total waste. Yes, if Kenpachi flips red, that's fantastic and we lynch Aeres next due to the vote flip-flop(unless someone has a convincing argument against). If Kenpachi flips blue(as he's claiming) not only do we lose a blue, but we lose an entire day to inactivity.



Assuming Amber is telling the truth, ghrur called out 5 players towards the end of the night:

Barunder ---> died that night, why bother to put him on the list if he ghrur knows he is about to die?
Protactinium---> heaps a bit of extra suspicion on top
Node ---> adds in that he is 'quiet'
KtheZ--->nothing
Youngminii--->adds in that he is 'quiet'

This gives all of these players at least an ounce of credibility, but not much more than that yet. It's pretty standard that mafia generally stick 1 or 2 fellow mafia in lists like this.

Dr H, you seem almost surely town at this point, as you continue to brazenly spotlight yourself. In fact, it seems to me like you are screaming out to be hit right now, which makes me hope you are a vet/hatter. Looking at what you've said so far, presumably you have
a hatter

, a dt

, and a medic. Presumably another townie or blue role from the dt check, unless he decided to check you before telling you his alignment. Anyways, you've been throwing a lot of statements into the thread without a lot of reasoning(which isn't a bad thing), but that doesn't really get us anywhere. I think either keep those things to PM's, or really hit us with some reasoning.

Anyways, the kenpachi lynch is a done deal, as it should be. The potential gain from his lynch far outweighs any potential loss. That being said, lets take the time now to discuss where we go after the lynch. No reason to waste the rest of the day.

Also:


Scumhunting made easy?.... or just a really bad townie

On November 29 2010 07:46 Radfield wrote:
This is a blessing in disguise. Every person in this game(including myself) need to work on their scumhunting skills, and realize that blue roles are only icing.

Since the dawn is fast approaching, it's time for me post before i die(62.5%).

Likely players with roles(ie Blue or Red, if they turn up green be mildly suspicious)
Annul
Amber
Youngminii
Kitaman
Artanis
Barundar
Southrawrea

As always though, things don't really get cooking until Day 2. If a medic saw it in his heart to pay me a visit tonight, I would not object.

I highly recommend all new players check out Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX. In fact, i recommend ALL players check it out. It's worth both a read and a re-read. Ace's guide to being mafia is also very worth reading.

On December 04 2010 08:14 SouthRawrea wrote:
Okay well there are 0 No votes. I honestly don't really care anymore who we lynch today. People keep changing their minds. Are we satisfied with Youngminii then?

On December 04 2010 10:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

stop

On December 04 2010 10:28 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
shit sorry, I was reading random shit on the internet. Closing voting now.