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On November 20 2010 03:24 LSB wrote:
Firstly, I would like to note.
It is in the town's benefit to use the lynch mechanism. Night kills are not revealed, and in addition, the mafia has the advantage during the night. The mafia is the only group that can take countries in face of resistance.
The most important question is why was Hesmyrr overrun? The awnser depends on Hesmyrr's alignment. If hesmyrr is actually green. This means that OPZ is red, as it is the only way that OPZ could have overrun Hesmyrr's defense.
Therefore, the best choice of action is to lynch Hesmyrr. As KingJames Stated. Hesmyrr is basically dead to the town, it would be very beneficial if we could get him to flip.
Actually, opz has admitted to gunpowder, which would actually explain the situation. I'm just wondering, what possible info could we actually get from lynching hesmyrr?
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Here's the thing. In order for Hesmyrr to be overrun, remember, it has to be done by two people.
OPZ being gunpowder doesn't mean anything. This means he could have attacked country 27.
It is only if country 19 had gunpowder, and helped OPZ in a joint attack could Hesmyrr be overrun.
As for information. We can tell if Hesmyrr is actually telling the truth, or if he is mafia just trying to cause confusion. If Hesmyrr is telling the truth, something serious is going on.
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On November 20 2010 03:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Ace, what is your opinion on this plan?
I'm opposed to it because Hessmyrr has been a target all game long with no strong reasoning. But the actual idea of lynching players with 0 votes so we can find out what's out there with no better alternatives is actually decent. If it was someone else that was actually suspicious I'd actually be more willing to vote.
Don't want to lose a guy, he flip, we get his information and then we're back at Day 1 all over again.
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On November 20 2010 03:39 LSB wrote:
Here's the thing. In order for Hesmyrr to be overrun, remember, it has to be done by two people.
OPZ being gunpowder doesn't mean anything. This means he could have attacked country 27.
It is only if country 19 had gunpowder, and helped OPZ in a joint attack could Hesmyrr be overrun.
As for information. We can tell if Hesmyrr is actually telling the truth, or if he is mafia just trying to cause confusion. If Hesmyrr is telling the truth, something serious is going on.
If Hesmyrr is defending and ~Opz~ has gunpowder then ~Opz~ succeeds.
Lynching Hessmyrr won't tell you anything about ~Opz~ or any one else.
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At this point? We haven't lynched twice, let's just freaking flip someone. If nothing else, Hesmyrr's lynch will tell us something about the people who are attacking Hesmyrr, or calling for his lynch.
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On November 20 2010 03:41 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 03:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Ace, what is your opinion on this plan? I'm opposed to it because Hessmyrr has been a target all game long with no strong reasoning. But the actual idea of lynching players with 0 votes so we can find out what's out there with no better alternatives is actually decent. If it was someone else that was actually suspicious I'd actually be more willing to vote. Don't want to lose a guy, he flip, we get his information and then we're back at Day 1 all over again.
At this point, I don't care who is lynched, but we need to get a lynch done. Aside from the fact that Hesmyrr was targeted earlier, we know he has no votes, so we know it will have minimal risk for decently high reward. We don't know anyone else who has had their votes taken away, so we don't really have many other options =/ We need information.
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On November 20 2010 03:44 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 03:39 LSB wrote:
Here's the thing. In order for Hesmyrr to be overrun, remember, it has to be done by two people.
OPZ being gunpowder doesn't mean anything. This means he could have attacked country 27.
It is only if country 19 had gunpowder, and helped OPZ in a joint attack could Hesmyrr be overrun.
As for information. We can tell if Hesmyrr is actually telling the truth, or if he is mafia just trying to cause confusion. If Hesmyrr is telling the truth, something serious is going on. If Hesmyrr is defending and ~Opz~ has gunpowder then ~Opz~ succeeds. Lynching Hessmyrr won't tell you anything about ~Opz~ or any one else.
Wait, by bypassing a defender, does this means it goes through a defender? Meaning you basically get two attackers?
Or does this mean you can skip a country and have a 'ranged attack'?
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On November 20 2010 03:47 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 03:44 Ace wrote:On November 20 2010 03:39 LSB wrote:
Here's the thing. In order for Hesmyrr to be overrun, remember, it has to be done by two people.
OPZ being gunpowder doesn't mean anything. This means he could have attacked country 27.
It is only if country 19 had gunpowder, and helped OPZ in a joint attack could Hesmyrr be overrun.
As for information. We can tell if Hesmyrr is actually telling the truth, or if he is mafia just trying to cause confusion. If Hesmyrr is telling the truth, something serious is going on. If Hesmyrr is defending and ~Opz~ has gunpowder then ~Opz~ succeeds. Lynching Hessmyrr won't tell you anything about ~Opz~ or any one else. Wait, by bypassing a defender, does this means it goes through a defender? Meaning you basically get two attackers? Or does this mean you can skip a country and have a 'ranged attack'?
...Someone with gunpowder ignores defense
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Yes, I think it means that you automatically break anyone who chose to defend that night.
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On November 20 2010 03:24 LSB wrote:
Firstly, I would like to note.
It is in the town's benefit to use the lynch mechanism. Night kills are not revealed, and in addition, the mafia has the advantage during the night. The mafia is the only group that can take countries in face of resistance.
The most important question is why was Hesmyrr overrun? The awnser depends on Hesmyrr's alignment. If hesmyrr is actually green. This means that OPZ is red, as it is the only way that OPZ could have overrun Hesmyrr's defense.
Therefore, the best choice of action is to lynch Hesmyrr. As KingJames Stated. Hesmyrr is basically dead to the town, it would be very beneficial if we could get him to flip.
Don't lie to the people. I have gunpowder.
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On November 20 2010 03:46 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 03:41 Ace wrote:On November 20 2010 03:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Ace, what is your opinion on this plan? I'm opposed to it because Hessmyrr has been a target all game long with no strong reasoning. But the actual idea of lynching players with 0 votes so we can find out what's out there with no better alternatives is actually decent. If it was someone else that was actually suspicious I'd actually be more willing to vote. Don't want to lose a guy, he flip, we get his information and then we're back at Day 1 all over again. At this point, I don't care who is lynched, but we need to get a lynch done. Aside from the fact that Hesmyrr was targeted earlier, we know he has no votes, so we know it will have minimal risk for decently high reward. We don't know anyone else who has had their votes taken away, so we don't really have many other options =/ We need information.
Well the thing is even if we get it is it going to help is the problem here. If we're going to be move from the direction of "lynch because someone is scum" to "lynch because we need information" then we are setting a dangerous precedent here.
Just look at the past few days of blatant wagon behavior and people itching for an excuse to just vote off anybody. Also add in the fact that this is not just Mafia vs Town but factional warfare and we're going to have a lot of me too! votes.
So if Hess flips innocent or scum we'd have no really good voting pattern because it's in every other factions best interest to get rid of him because it's an easy vote and no one can be traced.
Jeez this is a pretty hard game.
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On November 20 2010 03:54 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 03:46 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 20 2010 03:41 Ace wrote:On November 20 2010 03:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Ace, what is your opinion on this plan? I'm opposed to it because Hessmyrr has been a target all game long with no strong reasoning. But the actual idea of lynching players with 0 votes so we can find out what's out there with no better alternatives is actually decent. If it was someone else that was actually suspicious I'd actually be more willing to vote. Don't want to lose a guy, he flip, we get his information and then we're back at Day 1 all over again. At this point, I don't care who is lynched, but we need to get a lynch done. Aside from the fact that Hesmyrr was targeted earlier, we know he has no votes, so we know it will have minimal risk for decently high reward. We don't know anyone else who has had their votes taken away, so we don't really have many other options =/ We need information. Well the thing is even if we get it is it going to help is the problem here. If we're going to be move from the direction of "lynch because someone is scum" to "lynch because we need information" then we are setting a dangerous precedent here. Just look at the past few days of blatant wagon behavior and people itching for an excuse to just vote off anybody. Also add in the fact that this is not just Mafia vs Town but factional warfare and we're going to have a lot of me too! votes. So if Hess flips innocent or scum we'd have no really good voting pattern because it's in every other factions best interest to get rid of him because it's an easy vote and no one can be traced. Jeez this is a pretty hard game.
Generally I don't like lynching for information. But the fact of the matter is that the town has 0 information, while Mafia has all the info. We need something. I'm not advocating lynching for information as a general strategy this game, but something needs to be done. We have a plan, albeit not an amazing one, and I think we should follow through with it, just to see where it takes us. We might not learn a huge amount, but it will be more information than we currently have.
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....Who is dead and living....wtf I'm confused....
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On November 20 2010 03:59 ~OpZ~ wrote:
....Who is dead and living....wtf I'm confused....
No one is 'dead' yet. This is because some people that are eliminated by night actions such as communist/guerrilla fighters can stay hidden.
However, Hesmyrr has 0 provinces, so that means he does not have any night actions or votes. So basically he is as good as dead.
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Jcarl I don't think "Mafia" has all the information. I think all the factions that aren't allied with each other pretty much only know their own roles and locations.
It's not a typical game where it's just Scum vs Town and they can kill and manipulate all the innocents because they know they are the only faction. In this game their are several so they are just as in the dark as the "Town".
Still I'm close to going along with this plan. Really the only thing holding me back is the Day 1 and Day 2 attacks on him. Then brownbear who has been afk all this time magically shows up to vote for him. This doesn't sit well with me.
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@LSB: Actually he isn't dead. As long as neutral countries remain, according to the OP they are still in the game. Otherwise why are we picking Hessmyrr over any of the other guys who lost territory Night 1/2 and the list of what, eight inactive players that haven't contributed at all?
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I'm going to post something before the mafia figure it out.
Here's what I'm predicting. Since voting is not mandatory, the mafia is going to wait on this vote until they are sure the town has stirred. They don't want Hesmyrr to flip.
Now, somewhere along the line, one of the more clever mafiosos might realize a way out, so I've been trying to think of a way for Hesmyrr or one of his scum buddies to wriggle out of it.
They're going to advocate keeping him around so that he can still "benefit" the town. Maybe they'll claim that he's a Guerrilla Warrior. Any player who does any such action is suspicious.
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On November 20 2010 03:47 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 03:44 Ace wrote:On November 20 2010 03:39 LSB wrote:
Here's the thing. In order for Hesmyrr to be overrun, remember, it has to be done by two people.
OPZ being gunpowder doesn't mean anything. This means he could have attacked country 27.
It is only if country 19 had gunpowder, and helped OPZ in a joint attack could Hesmyrr be overrun.
As for information. We can tell if Hesmyrr is actually telling the truth, or if he is mafia just trying to cause confusion. If Hesmyrr is telling the truth, something serious is going on. If Hesmyrr is defending and ~Opz~ has gunpowder then ~Opz~ succeeds. Lynching Hessmyrr won't tell you anything about ~Opz~ or any one else. Wait, by bypassing a defender, does this means it goes through a defender? Meaning you basically get two attackers? Or does this mean you can skip a country and have a 'ranged attack'?
No, it means that when he uses gunpowder, it basically bypasses the defense(as in it's like he's not defending at all). That means that he can take over a land alone even if they are defending.
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On November 20 2010 03:59 ~OpZ~ wrote:
....Who is dead and living....wtf I'm confused....
The details are in the plan that I already posted. I will post it again so that it's not lost. Anyway, Hesmyrr admitted that he is Sakura Gaibun. He lost his last Province last night and therefore does not have a vote anymore. Essentially, he's just a talking spirit but we do not know his alignment.
On November 20 2010 03:36 Nemesis wrote:
I'm just wondering, what possible info could we actually get from lynching hesmyrr?
In this regard, I'm going to fall back on my personal motto for research:
"More information is better than less information. Some information is better than no information."
If he's Red, then we're golden.
If he's Blue, then well, that sucks, but at least the town-to-mafia vote ratio has not been altered.
On November 20 2010 03:41 Ace wrote:
I'm opposed to it because Hessmyrr has been a target all game long with no strong reasoning. But the actual idea of lynching players with 0 votes so we can find out what's out there with no better alternatives is actually decent. If it was someone else that was actually suspicious I'd actually be more willing to vote.
Don't want to lose a guy, he flip, we get his information and then we're back at Day 1 all over again.
On November 20 2010 03:44 Ace wrote:
If Hesmyrr is defending and ~Opz~ has gunpowder then ~Opz~ succeeds.
Lynching Hessmyrr won't tell you anything about ~Opz~ or any one else.
On November 20 2010 03:54 Ace wrote:
Well the thing is even if we get it is it going to help is the problem here. If we're going to be move from the direction of "lynch because someone is scum" to "lynch because we need information" then we are setting a dangerous precedent here.
Just look at the past few days of blatant wagon behavior and people itching for an excuse to just vote off anybody. Also add in the fact that this is not just Mafia vs Town but factional warfare and we're going to have a lot of me too! votes.
So if Hess flips innocent or scum we'd have no really good voting pattern because it's in every other factions best interest to get rid of him because it's an easy vote and no one can be traced.
Jeez this is a pretty hard game.
On November 20 2010 04:04 Ace wrote:
Jcarl I don't think "Mafia" has all the information. I think all the factions that aren't allied with each other pretty much only know their own roles and locations.
It's not a typical game where it's just Scum vs Town and they can kill and manipulate all the innocents because they know they are the only faction. In this game their are several so they are just as in the dark as the "Town".
Still I'm close to going along with this plan. Really the only thing holding me back is the Day 1 and Day 2 attacks on him. Then brownbear who has been afk all this time magically shows up to vote for him. This doesn't sit well with me.
On November 20 2010 04:06 Ace wrote:
@LSB: Actually he isn't dead. As long as neutral countries remain, according to the OP they are still in the game. Otherwise why are we picking Hessmyrr over any of the other guys who lost territory Night 1/2 and the list of what, eight inactive players that haven't contributed at all?
Earlier Ace was "actively" supportive of "mafia-hunting" plans. However, now that such a plan has been proposed, he's showing his true colours. These five posts are lightly veiled attempts to stall for more time completely drenched in swamp water. ie. very scummy.
What do you mean "any of the other guys who lost territory Night 1/2"? We don't have any names of those players. Do you know who they are?
Ace, now is your chance. Step up and bus your mafia buddy. Stop stalling, wasting time and trying to distract from the merits of the plan.
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I'm not stalling for time, if I was I'd just accuse somebody else and take attention away from Hessmyrr.
This is not a scumhunting plan. You haven't accused Hessmyrr of being Scum. You just said so yourself:
In this regard, I'm going to fall back on my personal motto for research:
"More information is better than less information. Some information is better than no information."
Earlier I made it clear that if we are going down this path of lynch for information vs lynching for Scum we might be stuck back at Day 1 again.
So unless this is somehow now a Mafia hunting plan, then how does me not supporting it make me Scummy? It's not a mafia hunting plan, it's an information plan.
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EPT
