Insane Mafia

On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:


We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.

If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle

I don't want him to claim in thread if it hurts(thus through pms) and I don't even want him to claim entirely

I know you didn't read the thread entirely, so I'll just tell you it's already known by know there are roles where pms are allowed. If you're invincible, town(at least me) is not going to be like "wtf". If your immune, well then actually we might let you die if it will help other roles live

On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:
I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.

I want to ask you guys something too. Would it be a good idea to analyze the Murrayitis's mechanics and how it would affect the game in the long run? I think I find it's interesting but I'm not sure if other players agree or not.

On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.

On November 01 2010 12:21 Pandain wrote:
Alright, I think just a series of reasonable questions will help express my point. Actually, sometimes I can't express an argument in question form so :/

On November 01 2010 12:40 Nemesis wrote:
Damn this has turned into a shitfest.

Can we please stop with all these "what ifs" bullshit?

I guess important thing right now is who I am going to lynch, then I'm sleeping.

On November 01 2010 12:36 infinitestory wrote:

I'm sorry, but I refuse to simply ignore the alignment of our mayor. I am in no way convinced he is a townie, even if you are. Knowing our mayor has an extra vote still, even if he doesn't have night protection anymore, he is still a power player that deserves additional attention.

On November 01 2010 12:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


Why? The more desperate he gets the better everyone can see how scummy he's playing.

And how easy it would be for the mafia to turn it against me if I just say nothing at all. Regardless I feel like this a lot of noise designed to distract from the Aeres situation.

On November 01 2010 13:06 Misder wrote:
I'm going to bring this up again, why do you think mafia chose to kill annul? Do you think they found about him being the bodygaurd? Cause I don't see another reason why mafia would kill him. He didn't make any amazingly good post that would screw mafia over did he?

On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote:
Still that is the best way for him to use his role if he is telling the truth now, I just am not sure where to criticize his confession. LAL or believe that it was an honest mistake? Kind of a dumb play for scum so I am inclined to believe him.

On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote:
So the potential doctor is risking saving a "confirmed" blue vs losing himself as well. Unless someone provides me with an good enough reason I will not fully roleclaim

On November 01 2010 13:16 Nemesis wrote:
I don't know why there are a good amount of people lynching Aeres. Aeres basically roleclaimed to take a hit incase DC was actually bodyguard. And if he isn't lying about his role, that is basically the best thing he can do with it.

Also, what benefit could roleclaiming as bodyguard give mafia really?

On November 01 2010 20:18 Coagulation wrote:
the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy.

On November 01 2010 22:24 NB wrote:
very interesting that the elder vote has been used again? Could it be that there is some insight that our DTs has connection with the elder and the vote is 100% correct? :D

On November 01 2010 22:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'm not going to quote YM directly since he seems to be active (wow..).

Why you so active? Day 1 you were hiding in the back not making many waves. Now you want to go after someone who has probably made a "newbie" mistake as though he's just stolen all of the cookies from the cookie jar.

Look at your arguments, and look at other arguments. You're really gunning for someone who we don't really know enough about. And you're kinda throwing random discussion out. Sad to say this is typical of your "pro-town" play. It's also worth noting that we know you're not "just a townie" since you would usually play quiet until you're lynched, making yourself completely useless. How useful your being should determine your alignment...

On November 01 2010 23:44 Aeres wrote:
##Vote Aeres

There's no redemption for me now. I made a bad move as an inexperienced player, and the town suffered because of it. I'm too much of a liability to keep alive, so I am voting for myself to smooth things out when I'm lynched.

Again, I apologize for making such an audacious play. I clearly should have considered the ramifications of my actions better, and because I was hasty, the town is no better off than before. At best, I learned what not to do in a Mafia game.

I don't expect to survive the day, so I'm taking the chance now to say good luck. I let you guys down, but I'm still rooting for you.

On November 01 2010 23:57 Amber[LighT] wrote:


Well without putting much effort into outting you since you don't know yourself well enough, this was (what looks like) your end-post for Flamewheels game:



Reference Post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139517&currentpage=91#1811

Very apathetic. Not very engaging. Not really pushing with "evidence." You had this epiphany where you're going to use reason in your posts? I find it highly suspicious.

On November 02 2010 09:29 infinitestory wrote:
Going to offer my argument against youngminii now. This is likely the antithesis to DrH's post.

by request:
An analysis of youngminii

It's interesting to note that youngminii made only one post on Day 1. It "explains" his choice for mayor (not really, since it's exactly 8 words long). He hasn't even expounded on it as of now, and he didn't respond to questioning.

Two conclusions. Nothing to show how he got there. He still hasn't said anything about it, but at this point it might be moot.

I'll be honest, this post was stupid considering it was my only post for day 1, I'm not surprised I was lynched. I was tired and I had just read the role PM when I posted this and after hastily reading through the thread, I posted this in case I didn't have time to post anything later (which was what ended up happening).


That's fair. I'm not going to question an unexpected leave. Still, you should respond to the questions we asked on Day 1.

Fair enough. Half the questions were a "why does he only have one post" kind of thing though.


This isn't much of a defense, actually. Basically, he says there is no way that his lynch-dodge could be a red role. Except that it was pointed out that it is actually possible for a lynch-dodging role to be red (e.g. dodge lynch the first time, like a red veteran). I agree that it's not beneficial for him to roleclaim at this point (at least not fully), but instead of using "It's not beneficial to town" as a reason, he uses "I'm obviously not red" as a reason. That's odd.

I've never seen a red role have an unlynchable role. I mean I read DrH's post and I see that there could be but at the time that was what I believed. Also, veterans cannot bypass lynches, they can only take an extra night hit.


He keeps dodging, but he's been adamant about revealing nothing about his role so far. I wouldn't expect anything different. The question is valid, as it's a miswording from Artanis.
The less information red has about town the better imo.


Reveals that he hasn't been reading the game carefully in any way (doesn't know about bumatlarge's circle powers OR fishball's circle). Continues to claim that his role could only possibly be blue.
It's true, I skimmed about half of the day 1 posts, but I admitted that before. Just so you know, I did know about fishball's circle but not about bum's.


Here begins (?) his wagonmongering against Aeres. Even Glasse pointed out that there's no reason to interpret Artanis' words this way.
I probably shouldn't have said that, it was just something that popped up in my head and I decided to write it to stir some thoughts. I did add the "Maybe" at the end, like you know, "NOT A GUARANTEE" at the end of those ads.


This is legitimate. He does find an odd contradiction in Aeres' post which becomes one of the main reasons he's questioned and eventually revealed.


It's true that Aeres should have been under much more suspicion at this point (and indeed, we soon began questioning Aeres further). However, the scumtell he points out isn't exactly great, as a sane scum who intended to incite distrust of DC would have claimed bodyguard and acted like the only one.


His first post in a long time. LAL isn't even valid unless there's reason to believe he made that claim to deceive the town. Many people (I think Pandain and DrH both said this, which might be an only-once kind of thing) have stated that lying can be beneficial to the town.
Fair enough, I don't like lies though.


At this point, he starts attacking Pandain's arguments as spam. No doubt Pandain gets very worked up and the back-and-forth is ... length, but the argumentation isn't contentless.
I like Pandain, I do. I don't like the way he posts sometimes, just as I know some people don't like the way I post. I'm allowed to make my opinions public.


Focus on Aeres? Why is Aeres' revelation of lying more conclusive than the several contradictions Pandain pointed out? At this point, I'm worried he's reading selectively, and he seems to be actively distracting the town from DrH and putting attention on Aeres.
I don't consider them contradictions. He's just going over the same points over and over ("you said you could prove yourself 100% but now you can't because of reasons x y z which I don't trust so you're scum") and I thought it was getting very tiresome/useless.


This is untrue. A player who plays badly or in a discouraged way is not necessarily red. He's just not an asset to town. But we don't lynch to get rid of just anybody. We must lynch to get rid of REDS. So far, nobody has shown decisively that Aeres lied to deceive the town.
I dunno about you but if there were no reds up for lynch, I'd lynch the bad player. At the moment there's no one that looks scummier than Aeres and the same was true for the time of that post.


That's fair. I didn't play in Haunted Mafia, so I wouldn't know.


good god, and you're trying to lesson us on what's unlikely and hypothetical, what's concrete and conclusive.
hahahahhahaha


Assuming Node is telling the truth, the hit is decided at the beginning of the day.


The mafia could also put us into a state of "as soon as someone is discovered as lying, lynch." He also makes a very interesting comment, that Aeres doesn't seem to have made up his role -> He must have made it up and then had a "team of people" peer review it. He's really finding the most outlandish ways to paint Aeres as red.
It may be outlandish. I don't think that makes me scum though.


This is just WRONG. Killing someone to find out their alignment is not what we lynch for.
It was a bit of a joke post (hence the ^_^) but I shouldn't have posted that in the first place. What I should have posted was "If there's no one that sounds scummier than Aeres right now, we should lynch him and see what he flips, then we can figure out what to do/who to lynch based on his alignment".


This is fair. It makes sense with his alibi, but that doesn't mean it isn't suspicious.


This is true and fair.


This is also true and fair.


I would recommend you defend yourself. If you don't, probably nobody will. YOU should create the counter argument.
I meant counter argument from Aeres about the argument against him.


That might be a bit of a stretch. I doubt there are three circles (aside from the mafia), so the DT and Elder would have to be in either bum's circle or fishball's circle. Remember, fishball only has 3 people in his circle, including himself.


Those arguments are not idiotic. We don't know enough about Aeres to declare him as scum. If you are waiting for a counterargument against yourself, maybe you should produce it. That second part is the main thing I find wrong with this post.


This continues to make 0 sense. Why would you not feel the need to defend yourself?
Fine, fine, I'm defending myself.


OK. I apologize for missing posts (I know I missed one, but I can't find it >____>)
Youngminii has been very concerned with Aeres and getting Aeres lynched without evidence. It seems either scummy or evident of a DT who doesn't know how to play and is martyring himself. Except, how many DTs can dodge lynches? >__>
Youngminii adamantly refuses to defend himself. I can't possibly imagine what that means, but if anybody wants to supply a theory, I REALLY want to hear it.

On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:

Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer.

Maybe.

On November 02 2010 10:34 infinitestory wrote:

For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me.

On November 02 2010 21:38 Glasse wrote:
More of a role claim than slip i thought

i work at a radio

On November 04 2010 10:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

meh, I doubt it's exactly the same. I'm inclined to believe him because he fished for other ADD DT's in the same way I did for other stickys.

I'd think it's more likely he has a 100% chance of investigating correctly, since orgolove actually had a 100% chance of saving right?

On November 04 2010 10:39 Pandain wrote:
Night 1 infinite, safe
Night two, nemesis, safe

On November 04 2010 10:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i feel uncomfortable

something about his role feels really plausible to me, but at the same time its very easy to fake and much safer to fake than mine

i suggest we kill pandain/someone unconnected or opposed to pandain

if pandain turns up blue and the other turns up red that could be really good for us in the end.

On November 04 2010 11:10 Pandain wrote:


So you think i'm mafia, because I claimed a role which you think mafia wouldn't have.

Circular reasoning ftw.

On November 06 2010 11:56 Nemesis wrote:

Yes, but you are forgetting that his mafia buddies could be telling him what to say.

On November 07 2010 13:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
EBWOP: Also I think we should vote double lynch again. I think tomorrow we are going to have a lot better candidates with our information and I don't want to hit a situation where we wish we had that extra KP. It is Day 5 and I don't think this will really go past day 7 at this rate. At least with the mafia KP still being 2+1.

On November 07 2010 15:07 Nemesis wrote:

Well even if that is the case, it is very unlikely that Pandain is mafia then. His role has been confirmed eitherway(Trash Collector), and since it checks the alignment of one random person per night. It would be a useless role for mafia as mafia already knows everyone's alignment.

On November 08 2010 09:46 Pandain wrote:
Seriously guys? We just found the perfect screw up and you still believe him?

He just claimed a role which doesn't do what it says! That's like someone claiming doctor but saying it allows him to check people instead!

Honestly watcher/tracker is very easy to confuse, even I believed kitaman and thought we had found scum. But mafia screwed up, and they screwed up hard. The role he wanted to claim was tracker, but he claimed watcher.

Instant FoS on everyone still voting Ace.

Also, we need to start looking at the possible reasons why Kitaman would try to do a sudden bandwagon on Ace. I'm thinking we were lynching one of the mafia, and they needed to do something.

Since hyperbola was in the lead, I'll vote him. I'll also look at his posts.

On November 11 2010 16:14 Kenpachi wrote:
Something is very wrong with Pandain.. hes faking his roleclaim.. Would it be possible to have a role as a secret Mafia townie?
That would let him go as townie but he can roleclaim as roles such as his "Trash Collector" role.

On November 12 2010 09:04 LSB wrote:

I think this falls under the category of "strategic modkills" or other out of game incentives.

On November 12 2010 09:35 Infundibulum wrote:


ah yeah i forgot you still had that.

but it doesn't excuse me from being retarded

On November 12 2010 10:15 LunarDestiny wrote:
What awesome stuff you did with your role Youngminii?

On November 12 2010 10:16 Fishball wrote:


Trash Collector that can check alignments, yet... people buy it.

On November 12 2010 10:27 LunarDestiny wrote:

I actually prefer myself losing.

On November 12 2010 10:37 infinitestory wrote:
the town was pretty indecisive, a recurring theme...

On November 12 2010 13:44 kingjames01 wrote:
I was so angry about this game.
There were SO many mistakes made by the town. Unfortunately I was killed the first night... (WHAT THE HELL WAS UP WITH THAT???)

It was obvious that Pandain's bid to become mayor was mafia-concocted. Two other players supported him with very shoddy reasoning. That should have been enough to kill 3 mafia.

Another thing that really made my blood boil was the stupidity over the existence of the Godfather and whether or not Pandain could have been him. Godfather can choose to appear as WHATEVER he wants. The perfect role is to pretend that you know when someone is Red or Blue since you know that already. It is IDIOTIC to start with the assumption that there is no Godfather.

Also, in order to win the game as town, you have to think like mafia. If some mafia is going to get lynched, the perfect plan is to bus a teammate, ESPECIALLY, if that means the Godfather is safe.

I watched the entire game and I was not overly impressed with ANYONE's play. After the game, everyone is patting each other's backs and saying, "yeah, that was great how you pulled that off! You're a great player" or "that was some great analysis. You really got that right." NO! EVERYONE ELSE FUCKED UP.

I'm so mad. =(

On November 12 2010 13:50 kingjames01 wrote:
Also, it was CLEAR that Aeres tried to pretend to be a second bodyguard since he thought DCLXVI had accidentally outted himself. I understood as soon as it happened. The reason why I didn't bring it up was BECAUSE I understood as soon as it happened.

If you're FUCKING town, then put a little bit of thought into it, understand it and then go along with it, you shallow-minded fools. Don't make him explain himself. That negates the point of his move. He had a role which allowed him to take that risk. He took one for the team but you guys lynched him for it.

On November 13 2010 04:19 Aeres wrote:
Oh crap, I missed the ending of the game. Good work, Mafia.

Now, I wanna post the death message that I was planning on when I was lynched; I didn't know I couldn't post this after my lynch, due to some miscommunication between me and Artanis, so I guess I'll post it now.

+ Show Spoiler +