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Also reading Pandains posts about my previous mafia game when I was townie actually surprised me. I didn't actually think I was contributing much in BMs game, probably cause Divenek was all like, Misder doesn't post enough and such, lol. Maybe I should start doing things I have done before... I actually don't feel like I'm taking a backseat in this game though. I feel more radical in this game than in other games where in other games, I only posted things I thought I had good evidence to and things that seemed obvious to me. And I should note that when I was mafia, I also answered why I voted for people. And that my analysis on larjarse was pretty much how I would write any analysis, besides the fact that I knew he really wasnt mafia, but I did that just like I would as part of the town.
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On October 08 2010 10:51 Misder wrote:I'm actually surprised not too many people are voting for me, considering the fact that I did contridict myself twice; once when I said that I vote with reason (well technically I did... intuition and my limited knowledge on how mafia players work) and once when I said that mafia members are the ones who die out into the thread (which I basically disappeared from). I'm such a good target for the mafia to start a bandwagon. I don't know if this is a good thing that the town is not impulsive or a bad thing that the town doesn't really like to do analysis... (well ghrur did, and i think he makes good points). And pretty much yeah, I took a shot in the dark, and I think I pretty much shot myself instead. Well this is what I had a while ago, but I never posted "~Opz~ Ok, I’m looking at him from the perspective of Mafia XXX, the most recent normal game. In this game ~Opz~ was tracker. I guess this isn’t the most amazing analysis, and most people also act differently from a green townie and a blue, but I’ll try. In day 1, as a blue ~Opz~ told the town what to do, coming up with plans, participating in the actual crux of what was going on. Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 02:26 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Okay. Vigi should claim Day 2 IMO because he can't use his night kill til night 2. The vigi can openly suggest his target, meds protect target. If 2 people die that night, and dude is protected from a hit then BAM, we have a huge circle formed with meds confirming the vigi, DT's can openly claim to vigi or use a mouth, Bus Driver should stay hidden I feel...except to maybe the meds.
And if it is a mafia ploy? We'd have netted two mafia. The fake vigi claimer, and the dude who was hit by the vigi because he would have to have been protected. All medics should protect the guy getting vigi'd so they get the protection message, or mafia would have to use all KP to stop the plan, GIVING us quite a few more days... He never actually contributes in this game on Day 1, just blames all of the newcomers." So my analysis of him before was when he was a blue role, pretty much irrelevant... I didn't look back at games even older, when I should have. When I actually looked at him more in dept than my intuition and one day of the game where he was blue, I've come to a conclusion that ~Opz~ is most likely town. This is his quote from Mafia XXIII where he was actually townie. Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 15:34 ~OpZ~ wrote:On July 18 2010 08:12 Jayme wrote:On July 18 2010 08:03 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
RNG lynch is dumb because you have more of a chance to land on a townie, and then he could be a helpful townie.
if we lynch an inactive we're killing someone who probably would not have helped us anyway
however, i don't want to lynch someone that would just get modkilled since that's obviously a waste.
Bill, how many votes can someone miss before they get zapped? As far as I know they can't miss any votes at all. We have more of a chance to land on a townie with any day 1 method we choose simply due to the fact that there are 24 townies and 6 mafia...there is no way of avoiding this. As a matter of fact I would say we have a better chance of hitting a good red player through RNG because I mean...who's to say that this "good townie" isn't just a red being a good townie. I understand lynching an inactive is killing someone who wouldn't have helped anyway but you're still doing just that...just about guaranteeing a green lynch which is completely pointless. As I said before I'm willing to go with either, there isn't much we could do. The issue I see with RNG is verifying if it's actually RNG. Actually....I'm done for this....Let me read a little more and we'll see who I want to die.... Also, I'm tired of these idiotic plans. We can pm. Dt, check someone PM them, pass turn, check someone PM them and the other person, pass turn. Quit playing like idiots and realize the benefits of having PMs....Nubby ass mafioso. And go back and look at games with PM's day one, no body does anything that day... The best thing I could say is everyone Roleclaim to me, and lynch me today...Or wait til tomorrow and do it. I'd inform of match ups, over counts, and die out as proof. How does that sound? I can send the PM out, and inform before death of everyone who doesn't respond, over counts of roles, ect. ect. I could be checked night one if that would be a problem, (wouldn't recommend organized multi checking though) and lynched day 2. Even if I was god father, god father would be out and too many blues to snipe with a list of roles and over claims. *yawn* But I don't really wanna die too bad, or abuse how easy this game could be. ~Opz~ has a condescending tone this mafia game, just like he does in this game. When I was reading through his posts in XXIII, its mostly yelling at people. Also, I believe that he is town because of he said that Artanis wrote Townie on his PM. If he was mafia, he wouldn't make such a huge claim. As for BM, I believe that he is VI. BM spammed most of Mafia XXX also, and he was ninja then. Question, what is the point of using an important vig shot on a supposed VI? Can't we just not lynch the VI and be done with? Or are we just afraid that then, mafia members can pose as VI and not get lynched? So question: Can't the mafia not kill BM if they believe that BM is not VI? Also, if BM is VI and tomorrow we double lynch him, don't we also lose? We're are depending on the mafia for this lynch to work, and I don't really like it. Also, mafia wouldn't be killing who they believe to be townies, and BM is definitely not playing like he is blue
Whats the point of "wasting" a vig hit on BM if he is supposed VI, well if nothing else it will stop the spam and I would welcome that. On a more serious note I feel like there is a good chance he is mafia for many reasons, such as he said he spams a lot of one liner as mafia, wild accusations with little content and Contradicting him self in the spam. Now becaues he is likely mafia, that is the real reason to spend a vig hit on him. Due to his spamming and getting everyone pissed off at him he also has the potential to be a second village idiot, or the godfather impersonating the VI, which would mean everyone loses if we lynch him(as I understand it) so yes, I am afraid that a mafia is posing as VI
The way I see it is these are all the situations it could be
BM is mafia and trying to convince people he is VI to hide
BM is the godfather impersonating the VI
BM is a second village idiot
BM is a really, REALLY stupid blue
BM is a green that is helping the mafia more then the town.
really in every case but him being incredibly dumb blue it is in the towns favor to have him killed, but in 2/5 of those cases we cant kill him or we lose, so he seems like the perfect target for a vig hit
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On October 08 2010 11:16 Misder wrote:
Also reading Pandains posts about my previous mafia game when I was townie actually surprised me. I didn't actually think I was contributing much in BMs game, probably cause Divenek was all like, Misder doesn't post enough and such, lol. Maybe I should start doing things I have done before... I actually don't feel like I'm taking a backseat in this game though. I feel more radical in this game than in other games where in other games, I only posted things I thought I had good evidence to and things that seemed obvious to me. And I should note that when I was mafia, I also answered why I voted for people. And that my analysis on larjarse was pretty much how I would write any analysis, besides the fact that I knew he really wasnt mafia, but I did that just like I would as part of the town.
Yet thats the thing. You haven't. You claim to not want to lynch an inactive and then vote to lynch Xelin the sentence after. Then 5 minutes later you change it to opz because of a "vague suspicion" which you haven't clarified until now. You haven't given thoughts on really anyone besides Opz just now, and plainly I'm unsure as to whether you would have had we not pressured you. And when you were mafia, of course you answered why you voted for people. You were under attack.
Also note that contributive =/= posting. A person who posts a page every 5 pages is better than the person who posts a paragraph every 1 page. Its quality that matters, not quanity. And frankly, I haven't seen any from you yet.
+ Show Spoiler +(Also, anyone who didn't spam in that game was inactive :p)
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On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol.
I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak.
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On October 08 2010 11:27 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol. I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak.
He commented DT should not claim, but instead try to build an argument someone is mafia without roleclaiming. Also, if you could group all your defense in one post so I can consider/respond to it easily as well as other's that would be nice. I feel bad when I post like this :/
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On October 08 2010 11:21 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:16 Misder wrote:
Also reading Pandains posts about my previous mafia game when I was townie actually surprised me. I didn't actually think I was contributing much in BMs game, probably cause Divenek was all like, Misder doesn't post enough and such, lol. Maybe I should start doing things I have done before... I actually don't feel like I'm taking a backseat in this game though. I feel more radical in this game than in other games where in other games, I only posted things I thought I had good evidence to and things that seemed obvious to me. And I should note that when I was mafia, I also answered why I voted for people. And that my analysis on larjarse was pretty much how I would write any analysis, besides the fact that I knew he really wasnt mafia, but I did that just like I would as part of the town. Yet thats the thing. You haven't. You claim to not want to lynch an inactive and then vote to lynch Xelin the sentence after. Then 5 minutes later you change it to opz because of a "vague suspicion" which you haven't clarified until now. You haven't given thoughts on really anyone besides Opz just now, and plainly I'm unsure as to whether you would have had we not pressured you. And when you were mafia, of course you answered why you voted for people. You were under attack. Also note that contributive =/= posting. A person who posts a page every 5 pages is better than the person who posts a paragraph every 1 page. Its quality that matters, not quanity. And frankly, I haven't seen any from you yet. + Show Spoiler +(Also, anyone who didn't spam in that game was inactive :p)
I'm pretty sure I said I didn't want to lynch an inactive, and I didn't vote to lynch Xelin. I just asked where he was and that hes usually active in mafia games. That was my original idea for voting for lynching Xelin. I probably didn't say this in the thread, which I should, noted in the future, is that because of his experience, it gives him the exception. I didn't want to lynch an inactive because it was too late to pressure them to contribute, which is the point of lynching an inactive. I would suspect that Xelin reads the thread, and actually contribute, especially since he knows how to contribute.
No, I wasn't attacked during Day 1 nor Day 2 of that game and I still gave analysis. Only on Day 3 was I attacked, and was I on the defensive.
I agree that contributing =/= posting. Look at BM spamming this thread previously lol. Problem is that no one backed me up in that game, and Divinek was calling me out like every single post. Whatever, I 'm pretty sure I know how to improve- stop making posts and claims that have no reasons backing that up. I pretty much screwed that up Day 1.
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On October 08 2010 11:35 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:27 Misder wrote:On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol. I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak. He commented DT should not claim, but instead try to build an argument someone is mafia without roleclaiming. Also, if you could group all your defense in one post so I can consider/respond to it easily as well as other's that would be nice. I feel bad when I post like this :/
Yeah sorry about that. I feel like BM spamming this thread lol, but I am responding to your new posts so thats why my defense is not in one post.
He doesn't say that DT shouldn't roleclaim, he just says that DT shouldn't be lurking/inactive, and if they find a red, find ev that they are red. So, I guess that one line is helpful in a way, but come on, I think I make posts that have one line of helpfulness.
On October 06 2010 09:11 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 07:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 06 2010 07:34 Pandain wrote:
I still believe Infun should be lynched if anyone, based around the fact he's technically off the "inactive list" while he hasn't really posted any content at all besides a link to a site.
My main reason is that I don't think we should lynch Cynan, and Infun is the best person we have. I think we should make a stand right here, and everyone should start to vote for someone, since the way it stands now it is too easy for mafia to manipulate the votes and it will be 100% NOT a scum lynched.
What information do we really get from lynching Infund? He's been posting information to assist DT's and Medics in carrying out their role effectively, I don't think he's been totally useless at all. We shouldn't be lynching by what info we get from the lynch; most of the time, the conclusions are wrong, and the whole point of the game is to lynch the mafia. Infund only posted once this entire time, and it was a link to a guide that could have been found by googling. He didn't really post anything at all. His one quote: Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 04:39 Infundibulum wrote:You are correct, Element 91. But Amber is also right that there are ways for the detective to push lynches on reds he checks, without role-claiming. If you are a detective I suggest you get creative; only roleclaim if you feel it is necessary. If you are a detective, you should probably read this page (if you haven't already) just to get an idea of the ways in which other people (namely mafias and medics) will be trying to find you in the thread: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_the_CopI think that's a pretty good comprehensive guide, but if there's any problems in it hopefully a more experienced player can point them out. I'm really undecided who to vote for at this point. I think right now, its pretty useless trying to lynch an inactive. Theres about 4 hrs left, and the whole point of lynching an inactive is to pressure them to vote. I'm still going to vote for XeliN because he's played many games and I dont understand why hes not here.
If I was there for the Protactinium bandwagon, I would have pointed this out. The purpose of the game for the town is to lynch MAFIA, not opinions on whether smurfs are legit or not, and other crappy reasons.
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Disclaimer: This post is does not in any way encourage additional posting of PM or PM related information, nor do I wish to further the discussion of the PMs themselves. This post contains full disclosure of BM's method to further discourage any claiming. However, the prior claims are here to stay, for better or for worse. There's nothing that can be done, yet they've altered the meta game and as such cannot be ignored.
Alternatively a host could simply come out and confirm that the PM messages were different dependent on host, alleviating us of this meta-game aspect entirely. But if not, then the information's there, and should be taken full advantage of by the townies.
Now, in short, for those that don't feel like reading the spam starting from page 29 and going really until about page 35, Bill Murray demanded players to roleclaim, but emphasized players should carefully reread their PMs before claiming. It was actually very clever, as there was an underlying secret that only town players would recognize: town players were not PM'ed the word "town" but rather "townie" as their role. XeliN sums this up nicely:
On October 07 2010 16:42 XeliN wrote:
My take on the whole "Town//Townie" questioning. It seems quite clear to me that the distinction Bill is trying to highlight here is not whether someone is Green or Blue, but on what a Town player was actually PM'd in their role. Seems a little bit shady as a strategy although nonetheless quite effective as I'm now fairly sure he is legitimately Town.
On October 07 2010 16:47 XeliN wrote:
In fact it's not even "my take" it's blatantly what he actually means as he frequently say's
"go back and look at your role PM, then tell me Town//Townie"
Him being established town (here's where "my take" is appropriate, you can make up your own minds!) doesn't mean he is correct in calling for bloody's lynch, but I'm going to need to go over the thread more purely with that in mind. OpZ is also suspect to me, along with BC, for missing Bill's intention which was quite blatant, although ofc if they were mafia they would miss it as their role PM would not make his intention blatant.
Ironically, Bill, either in a burst of genius or insanity, incessantly insisted the correct answer was "town." And, best of yet, some people fell for it:
On October 07 2010 14:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
town
but i'm more confused by your plan than anything
On October 07 2010 14:49 infinitestory wrote:I claim town.I have no idea where you could possibly be going with this.
On October 07 2010 14:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I'm town, and you already know that.
(Note: BC is especially guilty in this regard, as he kept referring to the town post in the OP as his point of reference). In fact the only player that correctly roleclaimed as far as I can surmise is OpZ:
On October 07 2010 15:16 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Really? my role PM says townie. It was also sent by Artanis. Was yours sent by Artanis? -_-
Even now Bill maintains "town" is the correct answer, and his vigilance for this charade is admirable yet simultaneously disturbing on some deeper level. However, props to him for maintaining it for so long (I'd certainly be convinced).
Now there is the caveat that there were different wording in the PMs based on the host.
On October 08 2010 05:41 BrownBear wrote:
Both Artanis and I sent out role PMs, to make our workload easier.
As such, take the following conclusions with a grain of salt:
Confirmed players from my perspective:
- Bill Murray
- ~OpZ~
- XeliN (maybe, first one to put 2-2 together but never identified "townie" as the correct solution).
Suspect players from my perspective:
- BloodyC0bbler (claimed "town")
- DoctorHelvetica (claimed "town")
- infinitestory (claimed "town")
- Divinek (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Amber[LighT] (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Nuke (just didn't get it)
Still need to look at the votes over the past day to see if there's anything worthwhile there. But I'm certainly curious as to what one of the "town" players will flip ~ if town, then there's possibly a host discrepancy. If not, then this only confirms my suspicions. It's the strongest lead we've got and I see no reason not to pursue it.
Anyway I'm off to bed to mull this over.
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On October 08 2010 12:15 SiNiquity wrote:Disclaimer: This post is does not in any way encourage additional posting of PM or PM related information, nor do I wish to further the discussion of the PMs themselves. This post contains full disclosure of BM's method to further discourage any claiming. However, the prior claims are here to stay, for better or for worse. There's nothing that can be done, yet they've altered the meta game and as such cannot be ignored. Alternatively a host could simply come out and confirm that the PM messages were different dependent on host, alleviating us of this meta-game aspect entirely. But if not, then the information's there, and should be taken full advantage of by the townies.Now, in short, for those that don't feel like reading the spam starting from page 29 and going really until about page 35, Bill Murray demanded players to roleclaim, but emphasized players should carefully reread their PMs before claiming. It was actually very clever, as there was an underlying secret that only town players would recognize: town players were not PM'ed the word "town" but rather "townie" as their role. XeliN sums this up nicely: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 16:42 XeliN wrote:
My take on the whole "Town//Townie" questioning. It seems quite clear to me that the distinction Bill is trying to highlight here is not whether someone is Green or Blue, but on what a Town player was actually PM'd in their role. Seems a little bit shady as a strategy although nonetheless quite effective as I'm now fairly sure he is legitimately Town. Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 16:47 XeliN wrote:
In fact it's not even "my take" it's blatantly what he actually means as he frequently say's
"go back and look at your role PM, then tell me Town//Townie"
Him being established town (here's where "my take" is appropriate, you can make up your own minds!) doesn't mean he is correct in calling for bloody's lynch, but I'm going to need to go over the thread more purely with that in mind. OpZ is also suspect to me, along with BC, for missing Bill's intention which was quite blatant, although ofc if they were mafia they would miss it as their role PM would not make his intention blatant. Ironically, Bill, either in a burst of genius or insanity, incessantly insisted the correct answer was "town." And, best of yet, some people fell for it: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
town
but i'm more confused by your plan than anything Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:49 infinitestory wrote:On October 07 2010 14:46 Bill Murray wrote:
You, too, infinitestory. I claim town.I have no idea where you could possibly be going with this. Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I'm town, and you already know that. (Note: BC is especially guilty in this regard, as he kept referring to the town post in the OP as his point of reference). In fact the only player that correctly roleclaimed as far as I can surmise is OpZ: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 15:16 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Really? my role PM says townie. It was also sent by Artanis. Was yours sent by Artanis? -_- Even now Bill maintains "town" is the correct answer, and his vigilance for this charade is admirable yet simultaneously disturbing on some deeper level. However, props to him for maintaining it for so long (I'd certainly be convinced). Now there is the caveat that there were different wording in the PMs based on the host. Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 05:41 BrownBear wrote:
Both Artanis and I sent out role PMs, to make our workload easier. As such, take the following conclusions with a grain of salt: Confirmed players from my perspective: - Bill Murray
- ~OpZ~
- XeliN (maybe, first one to put 2-2 together but never identified "townie" as the correct solution).
Suspect players from my perspective: - BloodyC0bbler (claimed "town")
- DoctorHelvetica (claimed "town")
- infinitestory (claimed "town")
- Divinek (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Amber[LighT] (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Nuke (just didn't get it)
Still need to look at the votes over the past day to see if there's anything worthwhile there. But I'm certainly curious as to what one of the "town" players will flip ~ if town, then there's possibly a host discrepancy. If not, then this only confirms my suspicions. It's the strongest lead we've got and I see no reason not to pursue it. Anyway I'm off to bed to mull this over.
Your Disclaimer should also read your an idiot. Go re-read the spam you told everyone to ignore and realize BM was arguing the pm's said "town" not Townie.
As you failed to read a thread in its entirety, then re interpreted someones entire theory to push for peoples lynch. Hell you are fingering players your comrade BM cleared. I am amazed. For you to get his master plan so precisely only to come to drastically different conclusions, I am amazed good sir.
I am however intrigued how you come out of complete inactivity, defend not only bm, but xelin as well. Are the mafia really playing so badly as to so obviously link together, or are the three of you combined just bad?
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On October 08 2010 12:15 SiNiquity wrote:
Alternatively a host could simply come out and confirm that the PM messages were different dependent on host, alleviating us of this meta-game aspect entirely. But if not, then the information's there, and should be taken full advantage of by the townies.
I'll make this easy for you then. All role PMs were different based on host sending them out, and role. You have already been asked to not use this as "evidence" in the game, because a) it's not intended to be a part of the game, and b)it's not even legit anyway.
So your entire post is useless. And please read the full thread before you post. I asked people explicitly to stop using this as evidence before.
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Normally I would never do this but I got townie.
I won't say from who, and since we can't discuss anymore let's leave it at that.
Alright, moving forward...
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On October 08 2010 12:15 SiNiquity wrote:Disclaimer: This post is does not in any way encourage additional posting of PM or PM related information, nor do I wish to further the discussion of the PMs themselves. This post contains full disclosure of BM's method to further discourage any claiming. However, the prior claims are here to stay, for better or for worse. There's nothing that can be done, yet they've altered the meta game and as such cannot be ignored. Alternatively a host could simply come out and confirm that the PM messages were different dependent on host, alleviating us of this meta-game aspect entirely. But if not, then the information's there, and should be taken full advantage of by the townies.Now, in short, for those that don't feel like reading the spam starting from page 29 and going really until about page 35, Bill Murray demanded players to roleclaim, but emphasized players should carefully reread their PMs before claiming. It was actually very clever, as there was an underlying secret that only town players would recognize: town players were not PM'ed the word "town" but rather "townie" as their role. XeliN sums this up nicely: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 16:42 XeliN wrote:
My take on the whole "Town//Townie" questioning. It seems quite clear to me that the distinction Bill is trying to highlight here is not whether someone is Green or Blue, but on what a Town player was actually PM'd in their role. Seems a little bit shady as a strategy although nonetheless quite effective as I'm now fairly sure he is legitimately Town. Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 16:47 XeliN wrote:
In fact it's not even "my take" it's blatantly what he actually means as he frequently say's
"go back and look at your role PM, then tell me Town//Townie"
Him being established town (here's where "my take" is appropriate, you can make up your own minds!) doesn't mean he is correct in calling for bloody's lynch, but I'm going to need to go over the thread more purely with that in mind. OpZ is also suspect to me, along with BC, for missing Bill's intention which was quite blatant, although ofc if they were mafia they would miss it as their role PM would not make his intention blatant. Ironically, Bill, either in a burst of genius or insanity, incessantly insisted the correct answer was "town." And, best of yet, some people fell for it: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
town
but i'm more confused by your plan than anything Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:49 infinitestory wrote:On October 07 2010 14:46 Bill Murray wrote:
You, too, infinitestory. I claim town.I have no idea where you could possibly be going with this. Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I'm town, and you already know that. (Note: BC is especially guilty in this regard, as he kept referring to the town post in the OP as his point of reference). In fact the only player that correctly roleclaimed as far as I can surmise is OpZ: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 15:16 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Really? my role PM says townie. It was also sent by Artanis. Was yours sent by Artanis? -_- Even now Bill maintains "town" is the correct answer, and his vigilance for this charade is admirable yet simultaneously disturbing on some deeper level. However, props to him for maintaining it for so long (I'd certainly be convinced). Now there is the caveat that there were different wording in the PMs based on the host. Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 05:41 BrownBear wrote:
Both Artanis and I sent out role PMs, to make our workload easier. As such, take the following conclusions with a grain of salt: Confirmed players from my perspective: - Bill Murray
- ~OpZ~
- XeliN (maybe, first one to put 2-2 together but never identified "townie" as the correct solution).
Suspect players from my perspective: - BloodyC0bbler (claimed "town")
- DoctorHelvetica (claimed "town")
- infinitestory (claimed "town")
- Divinek (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Amber[LighT] (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Nuke (just didn't get it)
Still need to look at the votes over the past day to see if there's anything worthwhile there. But I'm certainly curious as to what one of the "town" players will flip ~ if town, then there's possibly a host discrepancy. If not, then this only confirms my suspicions. It's the strongest lead we've got and I see no reason not to pursue it. Anyway I'm off to bed to mull this over.
you realize anyone that got it 'wrong' besides the fact that two different people sent the pms, there's also the fact that roles exist in this game outside of being red or being green right? This isnt some elaborate plan to get our blues lynched is it -_-, yes i realize that the mafia would fuck that up too but there are more than likely more blue roles in this game than mafia.
I'm really a bigger fan of feel play and post analysis than this hibby jibby crap that isn't even accurate half the time. That's just how i play though, if something like this were to actually be reliable then id be all for it though. Xelin really needs to be speaking up more he's scaring me
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Oh my god.
Stop following BM's train of thought. It's not something intended to be in the game, and his logic is fundamentally flawed because 2 people sent out the PMs.
I mean it. STOP IT.
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On October 08 2010 12:15 SiNiquity wrote:Disclaimer: This post is does not in any way encourage additional posting of PM or PM related information, nor do I wish to further the discussion of the PMs themselves. This post contains full disclosure of BM's method to further discourage any claiming. However, the prior claims are here to stay, for better or for worse. There's nothing that can be done, yet they've altered the meta game and as such cannot be ignored. Alternatively a host could simply come out and confirm that the PM messages were different dependent on host, alleviating us of this meta-game aspect entirely. But if not, then the information's there, and should be taken full advantage of by the townies.Now, in short, for those that don't feel like reading the spam starting from page 29 and going really until about page 35, Bill Murray demanded players to roleclaim, but emphasized players should carefully reread their PMs before claiming. It was actually very clever, as there was an underlying secret that only town players would recognize: town players were not PM'ed the word "town" but rather "townie" as their role. XeliN sums this up nicely: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 16:42 XeliN wrote:
My take on the whole "Town//Townie" questioning. It seems quite clear to me that the distinction Bill is trying to highlight here is not whether someone is Green or Blue, but on what a Town player was actually PM'd in their role. Seems a little bit shady as a strategy although nonetheless quite effective as I'm now fairly sure he is legitimately Town. Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 16:47 XeliN wrote:
In fact it's not even "my take" it's blatantly what he actually means as he frequently say's
"go back and look at your role PM, then tell me Town//Townie"
Him being established town (here's where "my take" is appropriate, you can make up your own minds!) doesn't mean he is correct in calling for bloody's lynch, but I'm going to need to go over the thread more purely with that in mind. OpZ is also suspect to me, along with BC, for missing Bill's intention which was quite blatant, although ofc if they were mafia they would miss it as their role PM would not make his intention blatant. Ironically, Bill, either in a burst of genius or insanity, incessantly insisted the correct answer was "town." And, best of yet, some people fell for it: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
town
but i'm more confused by your plan than anything Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:49 infinitestory wrote:On October 07 2010 14:46 Bill Murray wrote:
You, too, infinitestory. I claim town.I have no idea where you could possibly be going with this. Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 14:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I'm town, and you already know that. (Note: BC is especially guilty in this regard, as he kept referring to the town post in the OP as his point of reference). In fact the only player that correctly roleclaimed as far as I can surmise is OpZ: Show nested quote +On October 07 2010 15:16 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Really? my role PM says townie. It was also sent by Artanis. Was yours sent by Artanis? -_- Even now Bill maintains "town" is the correct answer, and his vigilance for this charade is admirable yet simultaneously disturbing on some deeper level. However, props to him for maintaining it for so long (I'd certainly be convinced). Now there is the caveat that there were different wording in the PMs based on the host. Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 05:41 BrownBear wrote:
Both Artanis and I sent out role PMs, to make our workload easier. As such, take the following conclusions with a grain of salt: Confirmed players from my perspective: - Bill Murray
- ~OpZ~
- XeliN (maybe, first one to put 2-2 together but never identified "townie" as the correct solution).
Suspect players from my perspective: - BloodyC0bbler (claimed "town")
- DoctorHelvetica (claimed "town")
- infinitestory (claimed "town")
- Divinek (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Amber[LighT] (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
- Nuke (just didn't get it)
Still need to look at the votes over the past day to see if there's anything worthwhile there. But I'm certainly curious as to what one of the "town" players will flip ~ if town, then there's possibly a host discrepancy. If not, then this only confirms my suspicions. It's the strongest lead we've got and I see no reason not to pursue it. Anyway I'm off to bed to mull this over.
you realize the whole point of what bill was saying was that people who claimed town were town right?
what an awfully long post with zero content and zero point
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Yay analysis time. I am leaving the obvious moron BM out of this as well, we all have determined he is retarded, so lets move on.
First off I will be analyzing Xelin.
I am opting to analyze him primarily because he stood out for his massive screw up by following BM.
Now your going to ask, “but why xelin?”
I will tell you why. I have been on a mafia team with xelin before. As such I know his play well enough at this point to know he’s not playing town. His general mafia style is sit back and wait, posting the bare minimum to stay off peoples radar’s and only appearing under a few situations.
-Defend himself
-Making random useless post to appear active
-Jump on board ideas of his teammates, or people who are playing badly yet most people believe are town.
Lets give you a brief summary of Xelin’s history this game.
-Signed up
-Didn’t post, nor vote day 1
-Came back with the excuse
*im abit drunk and jump posted because i had mod warnings. just saw the nights ended, but im sure the lynch is about as useful and thoughtout as any lynch at this stage is going to be (not at all)
He openly admits he only posted due to mod warnings. Shows a complete disregard to the game and genuine lack of caring. He then reappears to defend himself against posts that insinuated he wasn’t modkilled because he had a role (this could be true or not). However the only real action to this lack of modkilling was he should be RC’d to verify his role. He then defended himself from being RC’d?
He then drops back into inactive land until reappearing to support BM instantly and push the lynch of two of BM’s targets. Now, Xelin has worked with both myself and Opz in previous games, he knows that between the three of us every blue role in a game was coordinated into one unit and the mafia was quickly killed. Factor in his normal mafia playstyle this fits in perfectly.
He keeps up his defense of BM’s strategy until he, much like bm, had the logic shot down by the town. Now backed into a corner he responds with
On October 08 2010 06:56 XeliN wrote:
Ok I was going to try to write a large response post to some of the things people have said about me, but I'm finding it difficult currently due to the ambiguity of the assertions, there have been some statements such as "sticking his neck out" "sided with bill" and other such things.
I know this will sound a little hmm arrogant or presumptuous maybe, but for the sake of clarity: if anyone has any specific questions about my play, conduct, arguments or actions that they would like me to directly answer then please state them clearly and I will do so .
I'm the most likely to be lynched atm, so plz humor me xD
This post saying “I wont defend myself unless you ask me directly now” is a clever way of dodging all the previous comments and concerns. As rather than answering why he supported bm, or even making analysis on targets, he tries to pull himself out of the hotseat without actually having to do work. People then began to focus on inactive players at the time like misder, leaving xelin forgotten.
He also asserts he was intending to actually contribute then decides he would rather not and sit back and pick what he responds to.
His play this game has been spotty, very anti town and untop of it all extremely inactive. Based on this I would put him as a strong possibility to be Mafia, or since he refuses to defend himself directly from being lynched a VI although that to me seems more like a mafia ploy than reality. At this point he is a strong candidate for a mafia lynch, or if nothing else, it removes a non contributing inactive member out of the game. In both cases town comes away ahead.
If he is VI, then I am as bad as BM.
For now xelin is my #1 suspect, but I will start re-reading now to see if any others stand out glaringly.
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On October 08 2010 11:03 Misder wrote:
Actually, I feel like I've been more active day 1 in this game than in the other games. But then I dropped off.
Pretty much, I agree with what everyone is saying about me not posting a list of who I think is mafia is true. The list comprised of intuition, however much that matters in this game. I think this game I've tried to analyse people from my perspective of being mafia, and didn't realize that other people think differently. Well, I don't know if you still want my list from day 1 since it doesn't mean much and most of its suspicion based on intuition, but it comprised of ~Opz~, DH, and Infund. Well, we know that infund is town, so that goes to show how bad I am at scum hunting...
And this may seem contridictory again, but where is kingjames? He was active day 1, and now hes gone.
Thinking of keeping my vote on you now...
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On October 08 2010 11:27 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol. I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak.
It was a post of mainly thread notes and comments. You don't like my thoughts? Whereforeartthou Amber?! (I musta missed some posts by him for a while)
In the thread they were talking about RNGing a lynch candidate. Giving an idea to make it legit?
Yea, happy's advice was weak.
Oh, hey....Look at all my games as town, I make a post VERY similar to that one. Would you like me to find some?
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On October 08 2010 14:17 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 11:27 Misder wrote:On October 05 2010 10:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 22:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 04 2010 18:58 Protactinium wrote:
Oh, and Detectives, you are not sleuths in this game. You are suicide cops. There is no passing your knowledge on. If you strike gold, er, red, shout out. Don't keep it to yourself, since if you die you take your findings to the grave. Shout out the name of the Mafia, then the names of those you have cleared. If everything goes correctly and Mafia are out for revenge, you should die bloodied and lacerated at night. But at least you'll have done your job.
Detectives, beware the Godfather. It doesn't deny in the Original Post that he can assume the mantle of the Village Idiot, which would make him close to unkillable, disregarding the Vigilante. More thoughts on this later, but if you are a Private Eye and you find the Town Fool, be wary if/when you choose to spill your secret findings to the world.
Oh, and lastly, lynch an inactive. If they are town-aligned, they're not going to be contributing anyway. Might as well get them out of the game to save some trouble later on, since with a lack of Behavior Analysts reds shouldn't be expected to be caught day 1 anyway.
. No. No. AND No. Detectives should not feel that they need to out themselves upon finding someone out. Their abilities are _REALLY_ powerful in this game and we need them to be cautious and analytical in their findings. There is a reason they can't act until NIGHT 2. The one major reason NO Detective should out themselves is because of the miller role. There's no way to sift through posts to gather a reading on a player that could be green/blue and come up red on a check. This is like a reverse sanity check for the Detective. What's going to happen when a DT outs themselves claiming they found a red and then we lynch a blue/green?! Guess who's on the chopping block the next day? That's 2 DAY cycles we miss hitting mafia because of useless knowledge. Their abilities should be used to gather a town circle. Trust the players you check, and take risks in others you think are secure. Do not fear the Godfather. The chances of checking him are very slim. Regardless, his role only buys the mafia a day and he is in the same bucket as the millers. They will need extra attention. DT's once again: Trust your checks. We can go back and find out who's siphoning information out of your circles later. They can be caught, but it's up to you to play smart. If you think you checked someone and the check doesn't match up, then try to get the town to discuss it WITHOUT outing yourself. You're going to just accuse another player anyway, and we (the town) will try to protect you. Lynching an inactive is almost a guarantee at lynching a pro-town role. If they don't want to participate and play like crap, then fine. But they need to vote pro-town at the very least. Don't lynch someone who can make the difference... Most townies play with this stupid passive role as though they should just be quiet. NO. If you are a townie start speaking up! Your job is to look through posting etiquette and weed out "bad" posts. Be careful of traps, like this gem: On October 04 2010 19:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:On October 04 2010 12:49 Amber[LighT] wrote:
So I'm gonna be asleep so I'm gonna just start now:
We should work on figuring out how we want to go about voting on Day 1. We can:
-Randomly Pick
-Pick an Inactive
-Pick an Active
I think of these three we should just go for a random pick. It seems that every time we choose an inactive the game just gets caught in a battle between 2 town groups, which never have mafia in them anyway!
It also might be a good idea to first design a plan (or 2 or 3) for how we want the blues to act over the next few days. We will want to keep our Detectives out of sight until day 2. Sadly I don't think outing them is the best option, so it's going to really be up to them to be really good at concealing themselves tonight. The same thing should apply to our vigilantes.
Pretty much our night 1 decisions need to be for the medics only. It's really hard to point out the people who should be saved, or how many people will be saved, so we should really let them use their best judgment while giving them a list of people to protect.
I'm going to state this now: I am going to be against role claiming, and I don't want to end up ruining the spirit of the game by doing this (as I feel it does). ...Wow....obviously.... -______- Derp typical OpZ day1 post. Don't expect much more from him until Day 2, just a guess. Hey hey hey, don't get all resentful on me. Lol. Come on. Those three ways are always deci---wait....lot of new people this game. My bad. I'll be more helpful then Oh. Hmm...Maybe I should add to the discussion more so next time. Personally.... Too all new players. Do not attach any kind of feelings to anyone trying to give you "good" direction. Distrust them. Even if they sound completely beneficial. Do not trust them. Do not trust me. Do not trust this post.. Ok, gonna look through some stuff. Gf might try and stop me, and gotta go smoke a cig with Champ. On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos Our goal is to mafia kill. We kill suspicious people. It's what we do. It's our....Thaaaaaang. Mafia better be better at sniping then town, that's all I gotta say on that. On October 04 2010 22:27 Amber[LighT] wrote:Pandains post: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2010 17:52 Pandain wrote:
Alright I have high hopes for this game, lots of interesting roles(even for mafia). I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of them and what I think they would want to do, just common advice i suppose.
Medic: Protect people who you think are going to get hit(duh.You would be pretty dumb if you didn't.) This can include active pro town-seeming people, people you think are blue, people you think are going to be hit, or just decide your own path and be a rebel.
DT: Protect who you have a suspicion of, including but not limited to
1.People acting out of character
2.Lurking people
Veteran or Bulletproof: Try to soak up hits, but don't be too obvious. Under NO even remotely normal circumstances should any of these claim, as then the mafia will just stray away from shooting them. The only time they should claim is if they got hit
Then we got the two town KP roles, both very interesting in this game. Let's go over them.
Mad Hatter
This role is very dangerous. In the hands of a good player, it can win the game, in the hands of a bad(or just bad luck) it can lose the game. For example, in Bill Murray's game Citizen,zeks, and sinquity managed to stall mafia by revealing they had a mad hatter, and had bombs on mafia.
However, just as it seemed we were about to win Xelin the suicide bomber came in and killed 5 people, and zeks had a bomb on infun meaning another one died. MH has to be very careful with your bombs, but always place one(as we can get more info/chance) and the fact you can always move it.
Vigilante
The most interesting role for me. Now it says he CAN use it starting night two, but should we have him? I say starting night two we make a vote/tally of who to kill as an "additional lynch." And if we're really not sure, we don't even have to use him. In fact, he might just ignore us or not even exist. However, I'm hoping the town consensus will convince him unless he has a REALLY good read on someone.
But more importantly, he will help us solve the Village Idiot Conundrum. That is, how do we know if a sucipious/scum looking person will not have been the VI the whole time! If we're stuck on that problem , we can use the vigilante to safely remove him. More devilishly, we can not lynch him and say we're going to lynch him next night, so if he's not mafia they will have to make a choice whether to risk having the VI lynched. Then we can even waste a kp, in addition to the possible fact he may have lived because he actually IS mafia.
But that's just getting into theory now, let's go back to what we can do now. Basically, we're at the part where Amber}Light says we are, where we can do one of three things.
1. Lynch an inactive
2.Randomly pick someone (PS KingJames you go to a random number generator on a website or w/e)
3.Lynch a suspicious person
In two options(#1 and 3), the village idiot plays a large role in our decision. How do we know a sucipsious/inactive person isn't simply playing that role so then they will get lynched? The thing is, we don't. We'll have to use our best logic. I am against #2 on the basis of pure statistics. Assuming we have all blue roles, there is a greater chance of lynching a blue than a mafia.
I like lynching inactives for a number of reasons
1.Usually are never blues(almost always townies)
2.Forces people to get talking
3.Provides us with more info(via the result of #2)
Now let me say this: I might not lynch an inactive person. But if I don't push it, I will push you getting vigi'd. I want at least 2 good posts from everyone by the end of the day. As of right now I would hope to see your opinion on what to do today at the very least. Also I'm going to agree with Pandain for the time being. We need to understand how people play. Everyone should post or at least make an attempt to post. Try to use your strengths to figuring out mafia players. It's hard with a blank canvas, so think of a creative way to get the mafia to jump out. I'm in favor of use a random number generator to out someone. The person should then make a convincing claim so we can at least have something to work from.
I was going to suggest a PM tactic for the Day 1 lynch, but this is a NO PM GAME. So this could get tricky :/ p.s. Typical Amber blunder? On October 05 2010 00:10 Divinek wrote:On October 04 2010 22:59 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
I'm in favor of just voting random the first day. We have very little reason to go on to try and pick some one suspicious, and if anyone is suspicious before day 1 night, then they are most likely attempting to be suspicious(read the Village Idiot). The same holds true to voting an inactive. We would most likely end up killing a townie by voting random, but I don't think we really have a better option.
Once people start posting more we can have a more educated, organized, strategy, but for now I believe in chaos chaos is the mafia way. It's far better to try and get something out of people by pressuring them and forcing them to talk than just going 'oh well we RNG'd a hit now no one needs to talk for the rest of the day' Not to mention who's doing said "RNG"-ing. Amirite? -__- On October 05 2010 06:16 Happy.fairytail wrote:
I actually don't think there's a difference whether we pick by random or inactive because:
a) Inactive doesn't necessarily mean non-blue. I've seen plenty of games where the DT was very quiet and seemingly inactive. He evaded all mafia suspicion and survived to the mid game and revealed himself. With himself and 3 innocent townsperson, he was able to establish a lasting majority against the mafia and win.
b) We have an equal chance of picking a village idiot whether we go random or inactive. It's not like we have special insight into the idiot's tactics that would give us an edge in determining one method or the other.
I think the two most important things are:
a) Communication. The upside far outweighs the downside, and I think we all agree here, no need to explain further.
b) We lynch someone every round. I'm going to prove this for another post statistically... That DT blew chunks, and so did that mafia. Fuck that three innocent townspersons were dumb too. Anyway, no. DT if you find a red bloke, I want you to build an argument for why he is mafia. Tell us what he is/is not doing that is/is not helping to town. I want you to lay into him. Be relentless. Don't pull no fucking punches. If his mama's a tramp, I want you to let us know. Shiaaaaaaat. So ignore this kid's advice. It's weak sauce. -___- Quiet people often get sniped by mafia toooooo. (Unless Radfield/Ace/L are playing) Eh...Kinda got the Village idiot post. It was pretty smart thinking with Village Idiot/Mafia win....So we do gotta be careful, cuz if village idiot is down to last 3 "Hai I'm VI, lynch me!!" Mafia just have to wait for him to vote for himself. Lol. I don't really agree that ~Opz~ said anything important in this post. 1) He says that hes not used to all the newcomers and says that newcomers should trust anyone. So to a newcomer, does one trust the post or not? Not really helpful to anyone, and it just messes with the mind. 2) He says that the point of mafia is to kill the mafia, but then implies that town sucks at scum hunting, saying that mafia better be good at green hunting, cause thats the only way we can win. At least thats how I read it. 3) Points out Amber's mistake and calls it typical. Not important I dont think cause anyone who read the OP knows its a no PM game. 4) Don't actually know what hes saying here. I think hes implying that we never actually know whos doing the RNG, and that some people can say that they RNG and they don't. I guess it kinda helps, but I don't even know if thats what he meant by that point, so no idea whether or not it helps him. 5) He just again becomes condescending, and tells everyone not to listen to happy's advice cause its weak. It was a post of mainly thread notes and comments. You don't like my thoughts? Whereforeartthou Amber?! (I musta missed some posts by him for a while) In the thread they were talking about RNGing a lynch candidate. Giving an idea to make it legit? Yea, happy's advice was weak. Oh, hey....Look at all my games as town, I make a post VERY similar to that one. Would you like me to find some?
I already said that you are most likely town in my eyes. I already looked at different mafia games, I already posted a quote from a game you were townie that was very similar to that one, so I agree that youre posting like you are as a townie. The only reason I was critiquing that quote was that Pandain brought it up and said that that quote was long and useful, and I said sure, maybe one line out of the entire quote, but thats not impressive as I did the same thing and he called my posting bad. If you want, I can do that too, and post all my thoughts on the quotes; I just don't find that constructive at all.
Question: you were trying to give an idea for RNGing?
I'm done, I think. If you guys truly believe I'm mafia, go ahead, lynch me. Again, the whole point is to lynch mafia. I'm pretty sure the points that were said that make me scummy were 1) I'm inconsistent and 2) I didn't back up my claims. Of course, these points are valid, but is it enough to say im mafia? If you are just lynching me because I'm a bad town player, then you're just hurting the town, and youre just wasting time while the mafia is hiding in the background, smiling at how they don't have to do any work, and just let the town fight with each other.
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On October 08 2010 12:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
This post saying “I wont defend myself unless you ask me directly now” is a clever way of dodging all the previous comments and concerns.
This is the type of idiocy that I was trying to fight against by making that post. I am and was at the time of writing it fed up with the amount of vague assertions being spewed about by people attempting to paint me as red.
They are fairly hard to respond to because, as Ghur has rather expertly illustrated in his post, it just runs as a collection of opinion. "XeliN jumps out to defend Bill Murray" "Randomly tries to get Bloody lynched with poor or no reasoning" etc.
These are simply claims, so what do I do to try to stop dumb people making these claims, or at least stop them from simply stating them asif they are established fact?
I offer to answer any query or suspicion people have about my play if they only have the courtesy to ask me directly so I can clearly explain my position.
So far hardly anyone has done so, bloody even has the audacity to state I am dodging, in spite of the fact every single thing he wrote could have easily been posed as a question to me instead of him trying to influence the opinion of others yet not actually caring for a response.
And also the word is definitely "Town".
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And Dr I ought to add, because it will be painfully obvious to the mafia at this point, that I am a Green Town player.
The only way I would come out openly about being 100% assured that Bill is a Green Town player is if I was also a Green Town player and could see right off the bat what he was attempting to achieve in his PM shenanigans.
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