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On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:13 LSB wrote:
My idea for dealing for Bill Murray. (This is for figuring out if he is red/VI)
Okay, instead of killing him today, we declare that we are going to kill him tomorrow, with a double lynch.
Mafia knows that we will kill Bill tomorrow, if Bill is VI, Mafia will have to kill him tonight or else they will lose.
But if Bill is Mafia, mafia can't kill Bill, and we would know that he is red.
This way we get to have mafia waste on of their hits or lose. this is the same stupid thing infinitestory proposed we lose if we lynch bill murray and he's vi, everyone loses. this is a bad bad idea Oops. Didn't notice his posts Okay, I'll carry on his torch then. This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs. The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia. But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI. if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat. our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win. We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch. Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia.
or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place
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On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:13 LSB wrote:
My idea for dealing for Bill Murray. (This is for figuring out if he is red/VI)
Okay, instead of killing him today, we declare that we are going to kill him tomorrow, with a double lynch.
Mafia knows that we will kill Bill tomorrow, if Bill is VI, Mafia will have to kill him tonight or else they will lose.
But if Bill is Mafia, mafia can't kill Bill, and we would know that he is red.
This way we get to have mafia waste on of their hits or lose. this is the same stupid thing infinitestory proposed we lose if we lynch bill murray and he's vi, everyone loses. this is a bad bad idea Oops. Didn't notice his posts Okay, I'll carry on his torch then. This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs. The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia. But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI. if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat. our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win. We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch. Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place
I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game.
So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him
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On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:13 LSB wrote:
My idea for dealing for Bill Murray. (This is for figuring out if he is red/VI)
Okay, instead of killing him today, we declare that we are going to kill him tomorrow, with a double lynch.
Mafia knows that we will kill Bill tomorrow, if Bill is VI, Mafia will have to kill him tonight or else they will lose.
But if Bill is Mafia, mafia can't kill Bill, and we would know that he is red.
This way we get to have mafia waste on of their hits or lose. this is the same stupid thing infinitestory proposed we lose if we lynch bill murray and he's vi, everyone loses. this is a bad bad idea Oops. Didn't notice his posts Okay, I'll carry on his torch then. This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs. The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia. But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI. if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat. our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win. We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch. Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game. So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him
Vig hit, we've already went over this
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Ok I was going to try to write a large response post to some of the things people have said about me, but I'm finding it difficult currently due to the ambiguity of the assertions, there have been some statements such as "sticking his neck out" "sided with bill" and other such things.
I know this will sound a little hmm arrogant or presumptuous maybe, but for the sake of clarity: if anyone has any specific questions about my play, conduct, arguments or actions that they would like me to directly answer then please state them clearly and I will do so .
I'm the most likely to be lynched atm, so plz humor me xD
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The reason they killed Infun and Bumatlarge was because they thought they were blues. Bumatlarge hadn't made a single post sharing his opinion of someone(besides that protact might be VI after he was already certain to be lynched) so he was lynchec because they thought he was blue, almost certainly after this post It's very easy to see why mafia would see Bum as that, look for yourself. Most likely DT or something.
And well well, what do we have here LSB? I was looking over Infun, not expecting much, when I noticed you left out some posts of his.
On October 06 2010 11:08 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:58 meeple wrote:
... lots of sudden votes for protactinium... I mean... smurfing isn't that annoying is it?
What's the deal with infinitestory's no-post vote... get in here man! Not just infinitestory, ghrur as well. You guys better post your reasoning for these votes on Element 91.
On October 06 2010 12:24 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 12:14 infinitestory wrote:On October 06 2010 12:09 Infundibulum wrote:On October 06 2010 12:07 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
On that note, Im changing my vote to Protactinium. I don't want the mafia to be able to swing the vote away from a mafioso, and there certainly are enough no votes so far to swing the vote to just about anyone. so Im just going to put the leader further ahead. Also dealing with smurfs does not seem fun. Wait. So you don't think Protact is mafia, but you're still voting him anyway? He's worried that if Protact is mafia, the mafia will pull some shenanigans and change the leader away from him before lynch. this is awful reasoning. we want to lynch the people that we think are mafia. so far i haven't seen a convincing case made against Protact, and there's definitely no consensus. all there is is a bandwagon. How about we flip it: I'm worried that Protact is town and that we're going to lynch a townie, putting us even farther behind after modkills. I voted for gruhr because he bandwagoned on Protact, and this is a huge contradiction to his pretty well thought out posts earlier.
Two posts with an underlying suscipcion of Ghrur. Now, this in itself wouldn't be interesting, but the fact you left them out is.
I'm going to analyze LSB as well tonight.
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On October 08 2010 06:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:13 LSB wrote:
My idea for dealing for Bill Murray. (This is for figuring out if he is red/VI)
Okay, instead of killing him today, we declare that we are going to kill him tomorrow, with a double lynch.
Mafia knows that we will kill Bill tomorrow, if Bill is VI, Mafia will have to kill him tonight or else they will lose.
But if Bill is Mafia, mafia can't kill Bill, and we would know that he is red.
This way we get to have mafia waste on of their hits or lose. this is the same stupid thing infinitestory proposed we lose if we lynch bill murray and he's vi, everyone loses. this is a bad bad idea Oops. Didn't notice his posts Okay, I'll carry on his torch then. This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs. The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia. But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI. if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat. our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win. We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch. Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game. So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him Vig hit, we've already went over this
Small concern: What if it turns out BM is vet? We lose Vigi powers.
Big concern: Having the Vig kill BM doesn't help out the town at all
It's better to have the Mafia do the dirty work for us than for us to have to do it ourselves.
Essentially we are reducing mafia KP for a night. More people are alive. Yay!
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On October 08 2010 06:56 XeliN wrote:
Ok I was going to try to write a large response post to some of the things people have said about me, but I'm finding it difficult currently due to the ambiguity of the assertions, there have been some statements such as "sticking his neck out" "sided with bill" and other such things.
I know this will sound a little hmm arrogant or presumptuous maybe, but for the sake of clarity: if anyone has any specific questions about my play, conduct, arguments or actions that they would like me to directly answer then please state them clearly and I will do so .
I'm the most likely to be lynched atm, so plz humor me xD
i'm more than likely going to be changing my vote to misder or nukethebunnys in the near future, for now i'm using you as a placeholder
don't worry I'm not that suspicious. you explained why you jumped on BM's bandwagon to have BC lynch and you didn't come off as scummy to me in any way.
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On October 08 2010 06:57 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 06:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
[quote]
this is the same stupid thing infinitestory proposed
we lose if we lynch bill murray and he's vi, everyone loses. this is a bad bad idea Oops. Didn't notice his posts Okay, I'll carry on his torch then. This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs. The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia. But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI. if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat. our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win. We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch. Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game. So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him Vig hit, we've already went over this Small concern: What if it turns out BM is vet? We lose Vigi powers. Big concern: Having the Vig kill BM doesn't help out the town at all It's better to have the Mafia do the dirty work for us than for us to have to do it ourselves. Essentially we are reducing mafia KP for a night. More people are alive. Yay!
We don't decide what the mafia does. What you don't understand is that the only way this puts mafia in a corner is IF bill murray is mafia
if bill murray isn't mafia they are sitting back and laughing at the pressure while we are essentially saying "if you don't kill this town player we will". if we have reason to believe he is the village idiot than lynching him is stupid
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LMAO
Pandain are you getting too trigger happy? Are you trying to start bandwagons?
On October 08 2010 06:57 Pandain wrote:And well well, what do we have here LSB? I was looking over Infun, not expecting much, when I noticed you left out some posts of his. Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 11:08 Infundibulum wrote:On October 06 2010 10:58 meeple wrote:
... lots of sudden votes for protactinium... I mean... smurfing isn't that annoying is it?
What's the deal with infinitestory's no-post vote... get in here man! Not just infinitestory, ghrur as well. You guys better post your reasoning for these votes on Element 91. Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 12:24 Infundibulum wrote:On October 06 2010 12:14 infinitestory wrote:On October 06 2010 12:09 Infundibulum wrote:On October 06 2010 12:07 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
On that note, Im changing my vote to Protactinium. I don't want the mafia to be able to swing the vote away from a mafioso, and there certainly are enough no votes so far to swing the vote to just about anyone. so Im just going to put the leader further ahead. Also dealing with smurfs does not seem fun. Wait. So you don't think Protact is mafia, but you're still voting him anyway? He's worried that if Protact is mafia, the mafia will pull some shenanigans and change the leader away from him before lynch. this is awful reasoning. we want to lynch the people that we think are mafia. so far i haven't seen a convincing case made against Protact, and there's definitely no consensus. all there is is a bandwagon. How about we flip it: I'm worried that Protact is town and that we're going to lynch a townie, putting us even farther behind after modkills. I voted for gruhr because he bandwagoned on Protact, and this is a huge contradiction to his pretty well thought out posts earlier. Two posts with an underlying suscipcion of Ghrur. Now, this in itself wouldn't be interesting, but the fact you left them out is. I'm going to analyze LSB as well tonight.
Okay, go accuse Ghur.
Infun literally said that he was accusing Ghur because he "sounded funny".
I'm not going to defend Ghur, but nor am I going to pretend that Infun was seriously attacking Ghur
I don't know about you, but to me, "Sounding funny" is a pretty lame argument
And as for the second post. Obviously Infun is prodding NuketheBunnies. I just find no reason to be redundant
Wait.. do you mean Infinitestory? Could you point out where he attacked Infinitestory? Thanks
Read before you post
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On October 08 2010 06:56 XeliN wrote:
Ok I was going to try to write a large response post to some of the things people have said about me, but I'm finding it difficult currently due to the ambiguity of the assertions, there have been some statements such as "sticking his neck out" "sided with bill" and other such things.
I know this will sound a little hmm arrogant or presumptuous maybe, but for the sake of clarity: if anyone has any specific questions about my play, conduct, arguments or actions that they would like me to directly answer then please state them clearly and I will do so .
I'm the most likely to be lynched atm, so plz humor me xD
(I didn't read much of the spammy part, so please excuse me if you already awnsered/addressed this)
I'm just wondering. Why did you keep on posting about PMs, when BB went out and told people to stop doing that?
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On October 08 2010 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 06:57 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:
[quote]
Oops. Didn't notice his posts
Okay, I'll carry on his torch then.
This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs.
The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia.
But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI. if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat. our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win. We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch. Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game. So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him Vig hit, we've already went over this Small concern: What if it turns out BM is vet? We lose Vigi powers. Big concern: Having the Vig kill BM doesn't help out the town at all It's better to have the Mafia do the dirty work for us than for us to have to do it ourselves. Essentially we are reducing mafia KP for a night. More people are alive. Yay! We don't decide what the mafia does. What you don't understand is that the only way this puts mafia in a corner is IF bill murray is mafia if bill murray isn't mafia they are sitting back and laughing at the pressure while we are essentially saying "if you don't kill this town player we will". if we have reason to believe he is the village idiot than lynching him is stupid
Bill Murray is going to be dead no matter what if he is mafia. Doesn't change the situation for the Mafia at all O.O
If Bill Murray is mafia, mafia is probably cutting losses right now and bandwagoning him.
On the other hand, if Bill Murray isn't mafia, they will kill him. They have to decide between losing the game and using a KP. Obviously they are going to use a KP. If they sit back and laugh they will lose.
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On October 08 2010 07:08 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:57 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
[quote]
if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI.
if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat.
our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win. We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch. Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game. So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him Vig hit, we've already went over this Small concern: What if it turns out BM is vet? We lose Vigi powers. Big concern: Having the Vig kill BM doesn't help out the town at all It's better to have the Mafia do the dirty work for us than for us to have to do it ourselves. Essentially we are reducing mafia KP for a night. More people are alive. Yay! We don't decide what the mafia does. What you don't understand is that the only way this puts mafia in a corner is IF bill murray is mafia if bill murray isn't mafia they are sitting back and laughing at the pressure while we are essentially saying "if you don't kill this town player we will". if we have reason to believe he is the village idiot than lynching him is stupid Bill Murray is going to be dead no matter what if he is mafia. Doesn't change the situation for the Mafia at all O.O If Bill Murray is mafia, mafia is probably cutting losses right now and bandwagoning him. On the other hand, if Bill Murray isn't mafia, they will kill him. They have to decide between losing the game and using a KP. Obviously they are going to use a KP. If they sit back and laugh they will lose.
so lets clarify you are saying
if mafia doesn't kill bill murray we will lynch him and because he is the VI mafia will lose?
if bill murray isn't mafia and the mafia doesn't kill him what does the mafia stand to lose that we don't? in that scenario both the mafia and the town are under equal pressure and the mafia have the upper hand because they know bill isn't red and we don't
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On October 08 2010 07:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 07:08 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:57 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:
[quote]
We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch.
Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red. or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose. why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game. So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him Vig hit, we've already went over this Small concern: What if it turns out BM is vet? We lose Vigi powers. Big concern: Having the Vig kill BM doesn't help out the town at all It's better to have the Mafia do the dirty work for us than for us to have to do it ourselves. Essentially we are reducing mafia KP for a night. More people are alive. Yay! We don't decide what the mafia does. What you don't understand is that the only way this puts mafia in a corner is IF bill murray is mafia if bill murray isn't mafia they are sitting back and laughing at the pressure while we are essentially saying "if you don't kill this town player we will". if we have reason to believe he is the village idiot than lynching him is stupid Bill Murray is going to be dead no matter what if he is mafia. Doesn't change the situation for the Mafia at all O.O If Bill Murray is mafia, mafia is probably cutting losses right now and bandwagoning him. On the other hand, if Bill Murray isn't mafia, they will kill him. They have to decide between losing the game and using a KP. Obviously they are going to use a KP. If they sit back and laugh they will lose. so lets clarify you are saying if mafia doesn't kill bill murray we will lynch him and because he is the VI mafia will lose? if bill murray isn't mafia and the mafia doesn't kill him what does the mafia stand to lose that we don't? in that scenario both the mafia and the town are under equal pressure and the mafia have the upper hand because they know bill isn't red and we don't
We both agree that if Bill Murray is mafia, there is no difference in the plan.
The point of disagreement is what the mafia would do.
Okay, I have no idea how you're approaching the problem. But I think we aren't on the same page. I'll just explain it again. Think of incentives from the Mafia's point of view.
Assume we are following through with our plan.
It's Night 2.
Mafia knows that Bill Murray isn't one of them.
They either have two options
1) Kill Bill Murray, if Bill Murray is a townie, its business as usually. If Bill Murray is VI they adverted disaster
2) Don't Kill Bill Murray, if Bill Murray is townie, nothing really happens as the town will just double lynch. If Bill Murrary is VI, the town would lynch Bill Murrary, thinking that Bill Murrary is red.
Mafia will find that option 1 is preferable. Option 2 they have a chance of loosing. Option 1 they kill someone that doesn't reveal to the town much information about the mafia.
As for the Town.
It's Day 3.
From our incentive analysis, we realize that if Bill Murrary was green/VI, mafia would have killed him. So if Bill Murrary is green, we wake up with his death post.
If Bill Murrary was red, Mafia wouldn't have killed him. So we know that he is red. So we lynch him and we take out a mafia.
What this plan does is exploit the fact that the mafia knows whether or not Bill Murray is red
Mafia basically knows Bill Murray's role. We don't. So we force the mafia to reveal this information.
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or he's the village idiot and we lynch him and we lose lol?
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On October 08 2010 07:23 Divinek wrote:
or he's the village idiot and we lynch him and we lose lol?
But the mafia won't let that happen
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On October 08 2010 07:05 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 06:56 XeliN wrote:
Ok I was going to try to write a large response post to some of the things people have said about me, but I'm finding it difficult currently due to the ambiguity of the assertions, there have been some statements such as "sticking his neck out" "sided with bill" and other such things.
I know this will sound a little hmm arrogant or presumptuous maybe, but for the sake of clarity: if anyone has any specific questions about my play, conduct, arguments or actions that they would like me to directly answer then please state them clearly and I will do so .
I'm the most likely to be lynched atm, so plz humor me xD (I didn't read much of the spammy part, so please excuse me if you already awnsered/addressed this) I'm just wondering. Why did you keep on posting about PMs, when BB went out and told people to stop doing that?
I have come to some conclusions based upon the talk that has surrounded the whole PM debacle.
When I mention or refer to them I do not mention anything that has not already been publically stated in this thread for everyone to see.
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On October 08 2010 07:21 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 07:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 07:08 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:57 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
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or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose.
why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that. We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do. The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia. or because town isn't going to lynch a village idiot and they don't need to kill him in the first place I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game. So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him Vig hit, we've already went over this Small concern: What if it turns out BM is vet? We lose Vigi powers. Big concern: Having the Vig kill BM doesn't help out the town at all It's better to have the Mafia do the dirty work for us than for us to have to do it ourselves. Essentially we are reducing mafia KP for a night. More people are alive. Yay! We don't decide what the mafia does. What you don't understand is that the only way this puts mafia in a corner is IF bill murray is mafia if bill murray isn't mafia they are sitting back and laughing at the pressure while we are essentially saying "if you don't kill this town player we will". if we have reason to believe he is the village idiot than lynching him is stupid Bill Murray is going to be dead no matter what if he is mafia. Doesn't change the situation for the Mafia at all O.O If Bill Murray is mafia, mafia is probably cutting losses right now and bandwagoning him. On the other hand, if Bill Murray isn't mafia, they will kill him. They have to decide between losing the game and using a KP. Obviously they are going to use a KP. If they sit back and laugh they will lose. so lets clarify you are saying if mafia doesn't kill bill murray we will lynch him and because he is the VI mafia will lose? if bill murray isn't mafia and the mafia doesn't kill him what does the mafia stand to lose that we don't? in that scenario both the mafia and the town are under equal pressure and the mafia have the upper hand because they know bill isn't red and we don't We both agree that if Bill Murray is mafia, there is no difference in the plan. The point of disagreement is what the mafia would do. Okay, I have no idea how you're approaching the problem. But I think we aren't on the same page. I'll just explain it again. Think of incentives from the Mafia's point of view. Assume we are following through with our plan. It's Night 2. Mafia knows that Bill Murray isn't one of them. They either have two options 1) Kill Bill Murray, if Bill Murray is a townie, its business as usually. If Bill Murray is VI they adverted disaster 2) Don't Kill Bill Murray, if Bill Murray is townie, nothing really happens as the town will just double lynch. If Bill Murrary is VI, the town would lynch Bill Murrary, thinking that Bill Murrary is red. Mafia will find that option 1 is preferable. Option 2 they have a chance of loosing. Option 1 they kill someone that doesn't reveal to the town much information about the mafia. As for the Town. It's Day 3. From our incentive analysis, we realize that if Bill Murrary was green/VI, mafia would have killed him. So if Bill Murrary is green, we wake up with his death post. If Bill Murrary was red, Mafia wouldn't have killed him. So we know that he is red. So we lynch him and we take out a mafia. What this plan does is exploit the fact that the mafia knows whether or not Bill Murray is redMafia basically knows Bill Murray's role. We don't. So we force the mafia to reveal this information.
well we have to wait on what the mafia does. the mafia can just not kill bill murray knowing the town will lynch him effectively increasing their KP assuming bill is NOT mafia
this is no different from pressuring anyone. you call someone out as mafia and if they don't die during the night you lynch them. this only pressures the mafia if that player is mafia.
i don't necessarily disagree with your argument, i disagreed initially because I was worried you were pulling the "if you don't kill the VI, we'll lynch the VI" argument which is a loss scenario for the town.
am I making sense? the mafia only stands to lose anything here if BM is mafia and I don't think that's the case. he is a strong VI case if there is a second VI but he's played like this as town before. i really just think he's green (especially considering the PM trick he pulled)
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On October 08 2010 07:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
well we have to wait on what the mafia does. the mafia can just not kill bill murray knowing the town will lynch him effectively increasing their KP assuming bill is NOT mafia
However, then they will have risk that BM is mafia, and they have mislead the town.
The Mafia would not be increasing their KP. Remember, either way, BM is going to be dead, whether it is lynch/Vig/mafia.
The thing is, we are going to set up a situation where the mafia will have to either accept risk, or use up one of their KP
this is no different from pressuring anyone. you call someone out as mafia and if they don't die during the night you lynch them. this only pressures the mafia if that player is mafia.
The difference is, when we pressure someone, mafia has no reason to kill that person during the night. Maybe to cause some confusion. But it would be much better to let the town lynch him on their own
On the other hand, mafia has a stake in this, they also need to kill BM. Mafia is under some pressure
am I making sense? the mafia only stands to lose anything here if BM is mafia and I don't think that's the case. he is a strong VI case if there is a second VI but he's played like this as town before. i really just think he's green (especially considering the PM trick he pulled)
I understand what you are saying. Just we differ in what we think the mafia will do.
Also, I think that he is red.
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On October 08 2010 03:17 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 00:12 NukeTheBunnys wrote:
Wow spam much.
Right now I'm thinking Bill is either A. a second village idiot, or B. mafia trying to hide behind the fear of a second village idiot. Its very tempting to vote for him regardless just to get the spam to stop. I really don't understand why he is bragging about convincing everyone(myself included) to vote for the village idiot. Hurrr I made us lose on the first day Im a good player Hurrrrrrrr.
As for the role PM's I think people are just trying to confuse everyone. Even if some one is helping brown bear host, I seriously doubt that he would send out half the role PMs, and some one else would send out the other half. I think anyone(read: Opz) claiming that their PM was not sent by brownbear is very suspicious. Im not going to get nitpicking about the town/townie distinction as they are commonly interchangeable.
My next step is to go reread the past 7 pages completely ignoring everything Bill said and see if it makes any more sense. Then again maybe I should go back and point out the inconsistencies in his spam as Im sure I could find quite a few Didn't I ask you a question in one of my posts? @_@ At school, gotta go back to work. Fuck my lunch break not being for lunch. ...Xelin. There is more to say than just to me. I expect you to address Divinek, Amber, and BC too. Seriously...My vote isn't moving until you start posting thoroughly, and I bet you're decently high on the rest of everyone elses suspect list. Know why? BECAUSE WHO FOLLOWS BILL MURRAY... (Still have the offer to cohost with you BM, I'm telling you you'd do so much better with a little help)
I checked back since day1 night fall to see and no you did not ask me anything. Unless you are counting
On October 07 2010 13:49 ~OpZ~ wrote:
NukeTheBunnys - ....waaaat.
As a question, which I don't because its not actually asking anything.
I think the vig should hit BM tonight and we should lynch some one else. It seems like many of us are suspicious of BM being mafia and also fear him being a VI. His spamming tirade did not start until day 2, I believe the reason for this is he was voted god father and chose VI as his role.
In the case that I am wrong, I doubt that BM would be dumb enough to stick his head out like this if he was a blue so lynching him would result in losing another green, which while undesirable, isn't as bad as taking out a potential blue.
I don't think that threats will work to try and get the mafia to kill Bill, or anyone else. We lose just as much as the mafia if he is the VI, and if he is not mafia, then it could be an acceptable risk to them to go after some potential blue targets and then end up even farther ahead since we would lose a green(bill), plus who ever they kill. So by threatening to lynch a potential VI you end up putting the mafia into a relatively low risk, high reward situation.
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Also threats to lynch people the next day are extremely weak. We cant even agree on what to do next, so there is absolutely no guarantee that the town will follow through on the planed lynch
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EPT
