TL Mafia XXXI - Page 36

On October 08 2010 05:22 XeliN wrote:
I'll make a concise post addressing all of you wonderful people questioning me in a little bit, currently I am waiting on a piece of information.

To briefly outline a few things however.

I believe Bill to be 100% Green Town
I am suspicious of the assertion that both Brown and Artanis sent out role PM's, my inclination is to think only Brown did
My vote on Bloody was initially a more sincere one, now it is a placeholder whilst I evaluate, if it makes any of you feel more comfortable I'll change it to myself
Divinek likes to say fuck

On October 08 2010 05:04 Bill Murray wrote:

Yet another blatant misrepresentation of factual information
your mafia "game" is build upon weak lies
Your town game is great, but your mafia play is terrible.
I don't see how other people can't see through it.

Protactinium/Flamewheel was acting EXACTLY like he does as mafia. I lynched him for acting like he does as mafia. It's easy to act like mafia when you are fucking anti-town.

On October 08 2010 05:30 drag_ wrote:
There are so many little sub-arguments going on right now I'm really struggling to make heads or tails of anything. That said, while BM may be a tool, I think it's more important to crack down on inactive people. In a 25 person game it's really easy to slip under the radar. I feel like focussing on BM is just a waste of time atm.

On October 08 2010 05:02 Ace wrote:
/facepalm

On September 13 2010 00:48 Bill Murray wrote:
I could agree somewhat, though I am actually quite terrible at scum, now, due to my town game improving a little. My scum game is still primarily one-liner-esque, whereas my blue/green game has ascended to being more content-oriented.

On October 05 2010 12:12 Bill Murray wrote:
I'm here. I just started my first day of work, so I don't know if I'll be able to be as active as I have in the past. Haven't gotten to read the thread yet, as I just worked a twelve hour day, but I promise I'll make an informed post tomorrow.

On October 06 2010 08:21 Bill Murray wrote:
At a glance, I see that people have been editing. I am not a fan of that. I see DoctorH is being active. That may or may not be a good thing. I am going to go read the thread and get off the inactive list. I'll make an informed post in a moment... possibly an hour.

On October 06 2010 09:18 Bill Murray wrote:
i like this kingjames guy. i'm also happy with amber and pandain so far.

On October 06 2010 09:19 Bill Murray wrote:

I did pick up on that, but Pandain could just as easily be a Detective trying to defend someone, or a townie with a loud mouth.

On October 06 2010 09:34 Bill Murray wrote:
first off:
@NukeTheBunnys, do you even read the thread?


Buddying. At least to me it is. Admittedly, Mafia buddy town all the time, but if Misder flips scum so will ~OpZ~. Therefore, I am considering voting Misder.

To all the people hunting for the DT, posting about "strategy" in relation to lynches, and cluttering up the thread with speculation and policy: most of you will be the M words of mafia. I'm talking to you, Amber, Protactinium, Misder, Happy.Fairytaile, ~OpZ~, SouthRawrea, and Crisis_



Furthermore, I like this post. It shows that DoctorH and I are on the same page. I am not sure as to his role, but I am pretty sure he is Town.


Detectives typically defend people they find to be town. Combine that with his beating himself up over changing his vote to OpZ, your fishing for why I feel he's DT (when you know my actions are money as fuck), your DT fishing on your own earlier in the thread, and I present to you Bill Murray's first mafia catch of the game:

Protactinium.
Points:
1) as seen from the TL Mafia game I hosted, he is fitting in with his mafia meta. He makes huge "pro-town" posts as mafia. As town he is way more argumentative. I can provide the difference, but I would have to indicate who he is.
2) he is a fucking smurf who has another name on this site
3) He was fishing for the DT and "discussing" who the DT was, how to find him, and what he should do
4) He was curious as to how I knew Pandain was the DT when he knows I am a good player

vote to lynch protactinium

On October 06 2010 09:34 Bill Murray wrote:
first off:
@NukeTheBunnys, do you even read the thread?


Buddying. At least to me it is. Admittedly, Mafia buddy town all the time, but if Misder flips scum so will ~OpZ~. Therefore, I am considering voting Misder.

On October 06 2010 09:34 Bill Murray wrote:

To all the people hunting for the DT, posting about "strategy" in relation to lynches, and cluttering up the thread with speculation and policy: most of you will be the M words of mafia. I'm talking to you, Amber, Protactinium, Misder, Happy.Fairytaile, ~OpZ~, SouthRawrea, and Crisis_

On October 06 2010 09:34 Bill Murray wrote:

Points:
1) as seen from the TL Mafia game I hosted, he is fitting in with his mafia meta. He makes huge "pro-town" posts as mafia. As town he is way more argumentative. I can provide the difference, but I would have to indicate who he is.
2) he is a fucking smurf who has another name on this site
3) He was fishing for the DT and "discussing" who the DT was, how to find him, and what he should do
4) He was curious as to how I knew Pandain was the DT when he knows I am a good player

vote to lynch protactinium

On October 06 2010 09:47 Bill Murray wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133561

Protactinium is scum, guys, honestly

On October 06 2010 10:11 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. It's not fair. If I want to meta him, and provide both town and mafia games, I have to say who he is. That is NOT FAIR to me making a case on him.

On October 06 2010 13:50 Bill Murray wrote:
Well, I knew he was anti-town
what do you all expect?
lol

On October 06 2010 14:02 Bill Murray wrote:
if we're restarting, can i not be a townie?

On October 06 2010 14:03 Bill Murray wrote:
I am obviously tore up that I influenced the lynch of the village idiot, and though he is not-town, I feel bad for us as a whole. I had originally thought the game was going to end/restart, and that the roles had not gone out, to where it would be OK to edit. Sorry.

On October 06 2010 14:05 Bill Murray wrote:
me stop spamming is like asking you to not be asian or smurf

On October 06 2010 14:06 Bill Murray wrote:
nighty night guys
don't let the VIs bite

On October 07 2010 13:43 Bill Murray wrote:
If you don't agree, I'm probably going to label you as scum.
You are now approaching a conundrum, a twilight zone if you will. Do you bus your partner if you are scum in this situation? "Sure, Bill, BC is scum" when you know he is to build townie cred? I don't put it past you, and perhaps I shouldn't fill you in on the ability to do that as it can be a viable tactic, but here at TeamLiquid players are usually very loyal to their scumbuddies.

Watch out how you respond to someone else's case, DoctorH. If you have something bad to say, it is usually better to not say anything at all.

On October 07 2010 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:
My analysis is seeing ~OpZ~, DoctorH, and BC as mafia
My last analysis lynched an anti-town player.
If I really "lost us the game", why is it still going?
I just got a VI smurf out of the game.

On October 07 2010 13:55 Bill Murray wrote:
oh, wait, did I SAY TOWN?

On October 07 2010 13:58 Bill Murray wrote:
lets have an open roleclaim. BC, you first. I'm town, but I'm not saying what at this point
people can say "no, we shouldn't roleclaim, it is way too early". I just want people to claim town/townie, not what role they are.

If I was mafia, I wouldn't have the balls to say this. This is too obvious to be the play of mafia. Lynch BC if I get mislynched. If he flips red, look at ~OpZ~ and DoctorH. If you all want to win, listen to me.

Claim.
I'm claiming town.
We need to consolidate through claims.
Trust me on this one, and we will have a good game.

On October 07 2010 13:59 Bill Murray wrote:

The fact I am pretty sure I know who 3 high-level mafia are
Is that good enough for you?
Do I need to be a martyr for the town to win?
Make me a martyr, DoctorH, get me lynched so they can see I'm town.

On October 07 2010 14:05 Bill Murray wrote:
we are getting EVERYONE to say they're town or whatever. If I flip, lynch BC/OpZ. DoctorH is possibly cleared.

On October 07 2010 14:09 Bill Murray wrote:
I already got the VI lynched, and out of our hair. There is no way he put more than one. That would make the game very gay. He also wouldn't have said "protactinium is an amazing player" if there were a lot of them.

I have a serious plan.
Everyone needs to claim something in their next post.
Don't use your blue role names, just say "town", unless you are a mad hatter with a bomb on BC
In which case I can direct your next bomb. Hell, if you're a mad hatter, just claim to have a bomb on BC and we can roll with that role. I would be able to analyze and tell you who to put your next bomb on, especially if you are an inexperienced player who needs guidance.

On October 07 2010 14:57 Bill Murray wrote:

ok, here is our lynch for today
opz fell right into my trap
town = green in this game.



OH, you just fell for it TOO LOL EBWOP FOR THE WIN
I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM AMAZING AT MAFIA LOL
BC AND OPZ JUST GOT OWNED.

From the OP:


GREEN = TOWN
BC + OPZ DONT REALIZE
BC + OPZ = MAFIA

GG.

On October 08 2010 05:42 Pandain wrote:
An Analysis of Bill Murray:
Summary:
Overall, BM, you have been unproductive, contradictory, blatantly obvious, using logical fallacies, and all the while under the protection of "I'm BM." Yet in the first post I quoted you said you only do the "one line spam" when your scum(or in this case VI) However, I do think there is a high chance of him being VI.

Therefore, I propose we lynch someone else and vigi him tonight. Also, in the scenario in which he doesn't die, we lynch him. This way we get rid of all possible avenues. If he is VI, he will be killed unless mafia get a lucky roleblock(or unlucky, since they will lose next day) or a medic is really "interesting" and protects him. But that won't happen. If he is mafia, then he will either die or be lynched tommorow. If he is town, he will just die. But in the scenario he is either GF or we have no vigi, I also propose we vote double Lynch for tommorow, for him and another person, or just 2 new suspects. I feel we will have far enough evidence to analyze.
I believe I have shown sufficient proof of BM being anti town, and urge you all to consider and comment. I will tackle the "Oh BM always does this" by analyzing his posts in previous games as mafia and town. Hopefully that will be done by tommorow at the VERY latest, hopefully by today.

His posts this game:




Pre game. Note this very much. Now, in Team Melee Mafia Bill Murray actually made some sense and had decent sized posts, and definitely didn't spam. In his own words, he's playing his own scum game.




Basically the only post in day 1. RL issues can occur, but note that he's just making an excuse for inactivity. Now, I believe that he had RL stuff for a number of reasons:
1.If we were going after inactives, why would he seem so inactive? Even though he has an excuse, it might've been better for a full post. So slightly unlikely.
2.His mafia brothers probably would have been like "OMG BM HURRY UP AND POST SO THEY DONT LYNCH YOU." Note that this whole post and its explanation revolve around wifom, but I believe logical wifom. Obviously does not clear him, however.



*yawn* Says nothing, but its alright, as long as he makes a great post right?



BAD! BAD BILL MURRAY! What is this? He gives three opinions in one sentence without backing any of it up. How is he happy with amber or I? Why does he like kingjames? Posting without content, its the same as voting without a reason. Both scum like.



Doesn't make sense, first of all if I am a detective I wouldn't know yet(can't check.)



Here is his long "informed" post. Couple of things to note:
1.He says Dr. H is probably town. Compare this with his recent accusation of him, along with opz and BC. Now, opinions can change, so I'll have more to say as I review more posts.
2. A series of logical fallacies and random conclusions from facts.


Opz asked Misder to share his suspect list. Therefore, they are buddying and both mafia despite the fact Opz has been suscipcious of Misder this whole game. Not logical.


Starts hatin' on the strategy and talking about policy, claiming they are "cluttering up the thread." Yet he spams just in the last 5 pages like cwazy. Also he tells them to stop hunting for the DT yet publicly announces I'm the DT. IN THE SAME POST!




His evidence against Proctatorium. Let's see his evidence against him:
1. Makes pro town posts
2.Smurf
3.Fishing for the DT(How? And you just claimed I'm the DT, yet bashed Proctat for "trying to find the DT and who he was." Utter hypocricy.
4.How would you know I'm DT?

I am in utter shock how Protact got lynched. It was horrible, and should've ended the game if not for Brown Bear's mercy. All of these points are illogical and in error, to the extreme. Bill Murray knows better. Even though he may seem stupid and is sometimes illogical, he's not to this extreme. This is scum/VI BM.




Great evidence. Are you TRYING to get yourself lynched? Notice he's making so many logical fallacies. And noticable too. Recently he's just started random spamming and claiming to lynch people because they claimed "town". I'm so confused by him.




Alright, you were able to after a while. Where's your case?



*sighs* You claimed he was mafia(or one really good VI). We expected him not to be VI. For all purposes, BM got a townie lynched, not only that but a good one too. Mafia doesn't know who the VI is, so for all intents and purposes if mafia pushed forward this lynch it would be aimed at a very experienced town. Also notes he said he knew he was anti town, yet one of the reasons he voted for him was because he made pro town posts. What the fadoodle?



Two posts before the previous one here, Brownbear clearly said the game will not end. In fact, just after posting it, BM would've been able to see it. In fact, Brown bear responds to something else and BM responds to that. Note this was 5 minutes after Brownbear clearly said we were not restarting, and BM responded in between. So it's 100% certain BM knew the game would not end. So why would he claim town?
1.He's mafia
2.He's VI
3. He has a horrible disease which makes him have short term memory loss every 5 minutes.

Bill Murray does not make sense.



For rizzles? Look back at that previous post my nizzle. Then start thinking out of your grizzle some more. Note he claims feeling bad for lynching him, yet now he proudly proclaims it. Contradictions everywhere, my friend.



Remember that first post of yours? How you were becoming more content oriented and now only spammed as scum(or perhaps VI)? Eh?




Pure wifom and speculative, but I thought it might be interesting to note he said VIs instead of the singular VI. Implying theres more than one VI. Still, just wordplay analysis.


+ Show Spoiler +
Spoilered for your convienance. This whole post is interesting, so let's analyze it.
"Let's see who is high tier enough to not hit a blue."
Couple of things wrong with this:
1. Because they did not hit a blue, they are bad at blue sniping. False.
2. Because of this, they must be so high tier so they didn't hit a blue. False. Why the fadoodle would they not hit a blue?
3.BC would be high tier enough to not hit a blue. False. In BM's own game BC basically led the mafia, leading to blue snipe after blue snipe.

As you may note we are seeing a series of logical fallacies and incorrect reasoning. To the extreme. Note the process above. It does not make sense at all. People may just say "Oh, he's BM and he's just stupid." But that's how he won penalty mafia, and if someone has gone to this extreme they are not pro town.
Again he also claims BC is fishing for blues, yet what the frick? He is not at all. There is no way you could get that out of what Proctat was saying, or BC. He's being stupid, for the sake of being stupid.

However, the contradiction is the (only) valuable part of this, and while interesting, is too easily explained by a myriad of what happened in RL, and we do not have happy tail with us. BM is proving far more interesting anyway.




To Dr. H. Starts to insinuate he's scum on no basis.



So much that's wrong with this. First of all, you should've lost us the game. You lynched a person that should've seemed pro town, but because your'e either scum or mafia you're playing stupid and spammy. Unfortunately, you got alot of new players to support you in day 1. This shall not happen again . Also still thinks Doctor H is mafia, despite nothing having changed from when he thought he was town.




Right after a previous post. Stop trying to prove your' town by finding "tells" in YOUR OWN posts. Anyone knows this is pointless, so why are you doing it? Because you're mafia, or VI(mostly VI).



Stupid stupid stupid argument. Made up of wifom("If I was mafia I wouldn't have the balls to say this. This is too obvious."). Made up of stupidity(let's open roleclaim!) Made up of no content( Just trust me.)



This post sets me off. It's like he's asking to be lynched. If he was town, why would he asked to be lynched? In addition, he can't know who the 3 mafia already are. He's asking Dr. H to lynch him(still think's hes mafia, remember that!). The only reason he would want that is if he is VI.



Oh, now he claims Doctor H might be cleared. Yet shouldn't his plan confirm or condemn them?



Fail logic. First off, he fishes for mad hatter(ACTUALLY does), outright saying "Just claim to me. Especially if you are inexpierenced and need guidance" Don't fall for this trick, new folk.
Also, how the frick does Brownbear saying "Protact is an amazing player" make there be only one VI. Right now BM is just trying to use a tactic I call "Appeal to Impulse". This is where he says a point, attempts to get someone to do something, and quickly before anyone can really talk about it. Here he's just spamming "everyone claim now! Next post! Do it!"

Also, note in his plan Blues would also put "Town" or "townie". OF course, according to Opz Artanis sent him Townie. But don't claim this plan means he's town, it catches the blues as well. And now he has been trying to convince the new people to claim as soon as possible. When I say claim, note I don't just mean the role claim. By claiming, BM the Scum would know if they were blue as well IF he trusted the majority. From there he could work out the blues. For he himself wouldn't know the exact wording if he was scum. Really the only reason he would start to begin such an insane plan is if he knew it was stupid, he knew it would cause controversy. He's red or VI.

The plan should be discarded. We can analyze it for why it would've been sent out, but please not how people respond. And according to Opz, theres more than one way people got it. So it's really useless. Most importantly, it ruins the spirit of the game, and makes babies go berserk when they see it and go emo later in life.

Now begins the mass use of "Appeal to Impulse"
+ Show Spoiler +

Now, after all that we see he reveals his"Majestic plan"



I''m sorry, but this plan is and was horrible, and disproved because it was revealed people were sent town or townie. In addition, you're giving mafia a 50% chance of getting it "right"(which turned out to be either). I won't comment anymore because of what Brownbear said.

But seriously, I'm disgusted. I'm not usually this strong about an issue, but this ruins the spirit of the game. And I'm saddened with myself that I even have to comment this much into viewing why you might propose it, however far away from actually comparing pms might be. It's a good plan, but against the spirit of the game.

On October 08 2010 06:13 LSB wrote:
My idea for dealing for Bill Murray. (This is for figuring out if he is red/VI)

Okay, instead of killing him today, we declare that we are going to kill him tomorrow, with a double lynch.

Mafia knows that we will kill Bill tomorrow, if Bill is VI, Mafia will have to kill him tonight or else they will lose.
But if Bill is Mafia, mafia can't kill Bill, and we would know that he is red.

This way we get to have mafia waste on of their hits or lose.

On October 08 2010 06:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


great analysis pandain. I did play in a game with BM where he was town and spammed like this but in a game with the possibility of several village idiots it's far too dangerous to lynch him.

who is your suspect for todays lynch out of curiosity?

On October 08 2010 04:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Also I need to put pressure on Misder again.

You're not getting away with being inactive this time buddy. Where is the evidence for your original accusations? Why did you fingerpoint and run away? Why did you fingerpoint, call out other players for not backing up their accusations, then go inactive without backing up your accusations?

I might have changed my vote to Xelin for the time being but you're still under fire here.

On October 05 2010 13:03 Misder wrote:


I think I rather wait. First, my suspicions aren't really big; they could be comepletely wrong, and I don't really have strong evidence. Plus, I'm still looking at different play styles from previous games. Second, this way, the mafia doesn't know whether I'm right or wrong, so if they really are scared, they're going to have to kill me If you guys really want, I'll post my suspicions, maybe to generate discussion or something on day 1.
Which reminds me, how do we decide which inactive to lynch?

On October 08 2010 06:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

this is the same stupid thing infinitestory proposed

we lose if we lynch bill murray and he's vi, everyone loses. this is a bad bad idea

On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:

Oops. Didn't notice his posts

Okay, I'll carry on his torch then.
This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs.

The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia.
But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win

On October 08 2010 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

if town lynches bill murray as a threat to end the game, the town still loses if BM is VI.

if BM isn't mafia and isn't VI then we've wasted a lynch AND put no pressure on the mafia. the point is that this is a suicide threat.

our goal is not for mafia to lose it is for town to win.

On October 07 2010 13:51 Infundibulum wrote:
i expected this

gl town, avenge me!

On October 06 2010 11:00 Infundibulum wrote:


Well, it looks like it's too late to pressure them into posting by voting. So we let the modkills die, and good riddance to them.

Ideally we need to find a person or two to put votes on, so that people don't have their votes just stuck on inactives, because that invariably ends up getting a townie lynched. The problem is that there hasn't been anybody polarizing enough; as far as I can tell the top 3 names have been me, Crisis, and Cynan? I can tell you my thoughts:

Crisis is new so we can expect him to make mistakes no matter what side he's playing on. For this reason alone I'd rather not lynch him Day 1, because either way it makes him appear more red than he may actually be.

Cynan is probably town but he wants to lynch inactives which makes me go He also says "Lynching me would really be a bad idea." This might be a soft blue claim?

At this point I don't think we should expect to find mafia among inactives - TL mafia games always always start with discussions about lynching inactives, and by now you might think the mafia are starting to catch on. The problem is you have inactive townies that are active enough to avoid modkill, but still don't contribute anything. Part of me wants to lynch these people so that reds can't hide among them, but the other part knows that it's better to just lynch a red in the first place.

Also i want to point out that ghrur started two posts with the exact same phrase "Speaking of lynching." Not sure if it means anything but i think it's funny.

On October 06 2010 12:09 Infundibulum wrote:


Wait. So you don't think Protact is mafia, but you're still voting him anyway?

On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:

We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch.

Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red.

On October 08 2010 06:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


or he'll be village idiot and bill murray wins and we lose.

why should we put our chance of winning this game in the hands of the mafia? we are not lynching someone who is a big candidate for village idiot. we are not doing that.