TL Mafia XXXI - Page 2

On October 07 2010 15:05 Bill Murray wrote:
infinitestory, "town" are usually called "townies". They failed to realize this. They are mafia. I am town, you are town, DoctorH is town in all likelihood... because we all claimed "town". "Town" = Townies. The way it is worded is weird, and not normal. OpZ and BC not picking up on the way "Townie" is reworded as "Town" in this game proves they are mafia or blue. I am leaning towards mafia on BC, which is why I am voting for him.

On October 07 2010 15:10 ~OpZ~ wrote:

I'm seriously considering resigning from this game because of BM's spam.....

Anyway, i'm off to bed. I work in 6 hours. Night night guys.

On October 07 2010 15:11 Bill Murray wrote:
Just give up, bro, you're wasting your energy. Everyone who is "town " in their ROLE PM knows you are a fraud

On October 07 2010 14:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



I'm town, and you already know that. I didn't disagree that I filled his slot, I do disagree with the specific reasons you weighed against me as you know damn well your lying and I will recommend any of the newer players to go check the previous games to catch you on that.

Your contradiction of hft is also laughable as your having issues with someone having time to do analysis up until they got swapped out. Who cares if he missed 12 hours? Until the last minute vote swing you did in a 4 hour period there was nothing he would have missed.

Now seriously stop spamming, you've been warned for it in previous games as well as near modkilled for it so stop it and make detailed posts.

On October 07 2010 15:13 Bill Murray wrote:
yeah but role pm is phrased town bro
bc doesnt realize that because hes red
you dont realize that because you are blue and should probably claim hatter with a bomb on a mafia
pick wisely, sir opz

On October 07 2010 15:14 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Sir, I'm no saint. I feel spam should be allowed. But to this extent? I think he got 6 to 7 posts in a row by himself. If it was a consolidation issue, I could be completely forgiving to him. But this isn't that either. Taking away the mafia's ability to spam up over a good post would be wrong, but to allow this ridiculous shit? Fuck that.

On October 07 2010 15:44 Bill Murray wrote:
Well, BC and OpZ still don't realize the townie pm is phrased "Town"
not citizen
not townie
Town.

They don't realize this. Why would they not realize that?

@Drag_ I am green, and on the side of good. Do not question me, bro.

On October 07 2010 15:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
EBWOP



You just lied again



I am heading to bed now, but seriously dude? Your evidence just got thrown in your face. Give it up and stop repeating the same thing over and over. You were wrong then, and your wrong now, deal with it.

On October 07 2010 16:47 XeliN wrote:
In fact it's not even "my take" it's blatantly what he actually means as he frequently say's

"go back and look at your role PM, then tell me Town//Townie"

Him being established town (here's where "my take" is appropriate, you can make up your own minds!) doesn't mean he is correct in calling for bloody's lynch, but I'm going to need to go over the thread more purely with that in mind. OpZ is also suspect to me, along with BC, for missing Bill's intention which was quite blatant, although ofc if they were mafia they would miss it as their role PM would not make his intention blatant.

On October 07 2010 15:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


And anyone would also realize that TOWN is the side you belong to.

Your actual role is Citizen.

So your arguing a flawed point as the point you are making IS WRONG

hell, also to argue your "YOU CAUGHT ME" point more



Oh look, I claimed what you wanted before you called me out on calling you out on bullshit.

Stop cherry picking posts. I have refuted your nonsense at every step and now your getting desperate kid.

On October 08 2010 04:22 Bill Murray wrote:

Actually, this is a blatant lie
that's not what he meant at all
he was saying "town" as a whole.
He is fucking mafia, because he is slow in the head, and it took him like 3 pages to realize my trap

On October 08 2010 12:15 SiNiquity wrote:
Disclaimer: This post is does not in any way encourage additional posting of PM or PM related information, nor do I wish to further the discussion of the PMs themselves. This post contains full disclosure of BM's method to further discourage any claiming. However, the prior claims are here to stay, for better or for worse. There's nothing that can be done, yet they've altered the meta game and as such cannot be ignored.

Alternatively a host could simply come out and confirm that the PM messages were different dependent on host, alleviating us of this meta-game aspect entirely. But if not, then the information's there, and should be taken full advantage of by the townies.

Now, in short, for those that don't feel like reading the spam starting from page 29 and going really until about page 35, Bill Murray demanded players to roleclaim, but emphasized players should carefully reread their PMs before claiming. It was actually very clever, as there was an underlying secret that only town players would recognize: town players were not PM'ed the word "town" but rather "townie" as their role. XeliN sums this up nicely:





Ironically, Bill, either in a burst of genius or insanity, incessantly insisted the correct answer was "town." And, best of yet, some people fell for it:








(Note: BC is especially guilty in this regard, as he kept referring to the town post in the OP as his point of reference). In fact the only player that correctly roleclaimed as far as I can surmise is OpZ:



Even now Bill maintains "town" is the correct answer, and his vigilance for this charade is admirable yet simultaneously disturbing on some deeper level. However, props to him for maintaining it for so long (I'd certainly be convinced).

Now there is the caveat that there were different wording in the PMs based on the host.



As such, take the following conclusions with a grain of salt:

Confirmed players from my perspective:

• Bill Murray
  
• ~OpZ~
  
• XeliN (maybe, first one to put 2-2 together but never identified "townie" as the correct solution).
  

Suspect players from my perspective:

• BloodyC0bbler (claimed "town")
  
• DoctorHelvetica (claimed "town")
  
• infinitestory (claimed "town")
  
• Divinek (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
  
• Amber[LighT] (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
  
• Nuke (just didn't get it)
  

Still need to look at the votes over the past day to see if there's anything worthwhile there. But I'm certainly curious as to what one of the "town" players will flip ~ if town, then there's possibly a host discrepancy. If not, then this only confirms my suspicions. It's the strongest lead we've got and I see no reason not to pursue it.

Anyway I'm off to bed to mull this over.

*im abit drunk and jump posted because i had mod warnings. just saw the nights ended, but im sure the lynch is about as useful and thoughtout as any lynch at this stage is going to be (not at all)

On October 08 2010 06:56 XeliN wrote:
Ok I was going to try to write a large response post to some of the things people have said about me, but I'm finding it difficult currently due to the ambiguity of the assertions, there have been some statements such as "sticking his neck out" "sided with bill" and other such things.

I know this will sound a little hmm arrogant or presumptuous maybe, but for the sake of clarity: if anyone has any specific questions about my play, conduct, arguments or actions that they would like me to directly answer then please state them clearly and I will do so .

I'm the most likely to be lynched atm, so plz humor me xD

On October 10 2010 13:41 infinitestory wrote:

In the name of DrH, I will put some pressure on BloodyC0bbler, who was my #1 suspect before Misder tripped my radar (falsely, and for that I'm sorry D: )
LONG POST INC

I'll begin with Bill Murray's analysis of happy.fairytail, who used to occupy the slot that BloodyC0bbler now does. I disagree with his accusation of BC as "rolefishing," but I have to say he does make some good points against HFT.


I'll now proceed to my own thoughts on BloodyC0bbler, and I'll naturally begin with his refutation of BC's analysis.


I find that this defense is made of paper. BC manufactures his own evidence, claiming that "creating a spreadsheet is commonplace and insanely useful" right when it benefits him to say so. If it's so useful and commonplace, why did he not give that advice to the new players? (Remember, one of BC's first posts in the thread was advice to newbies)
Also, I agree that reading 12 pages of posts is doable in 35 minutes (1 page/3 min), but I personally can't spot solid red flags in peoples' posts while reading at that speed, and HFT claimed to have done "analysis" and "profiles," which are quite in depth.

Now we transition into the PM debacle. I won't go into BM's evidence using BC's town/townie response, because that was shot down by the hosts. I'll try to focus on BC's content posts, because he does have a large number of one-liners ridiculing BM. In fact, out of those accused by BM, I think BC reacted the most aggressively.


Subtly talking as if he's a guardian of the people, which is a tone I personally find scummy; in some of these posts, he almost seems to be forcing himself to talk like a townie.


I didn't see BC prove BM wrong on "multiple levels," or with legitimate evidence for that matter. In fact, BC posts several one liners that add no content himself. He also claims again that he is town, and I'm not sure why.


Many of your posts in this thread were simply one-line back and forth with BM.


This is in response to SiNiquity. It is odd that SiN defends BM and XeliN, but BC still says it's "obvious" that the three are mafia AND linked together. He's already declared his opposition to BM, and his analysis of Xelin arrives later.

I will note that while I combed BC's posts, I saw many more that added no content, giving some impression of posting but not really.

Now for BC's lengthy analysis of XeliN, which I will counter-analyze. Spoilered because it is LONG
+ Show Spoiler +
First off, you claim your experience by listing Xelin's characteristics while playing as a red, which include posting very selectively and attempting to hide from the public eye. However, you then claim that he "disregards the game" and has a "genuine lack of caring." This actually contradicts the modus operandi of a player who watches and waits for opportunities to post, and I want to hear what BC has to say. Saying you've put a behavior to a pattern is pretty questionable when you show that you don't have a real understanding of that pattern. ON the other hand, the second part of his analysis does strike a valid point, and I pretty much agree with it.

TO SUM:
BloodyC0bbler's and HFT's posts have been riddled with contradictions and characteristically unhelpful (HFT mostly does useless analysis, while a good portion of BC's posts are one-line attacks on BM and others, which I have omitted). I would like to see, in response, a solid defense with logic. If BC can back up his accusations of BM, SiN, and Xelin with more logical evidence (actually, mostly BM and SiN), I will consider him much less suspect.

On October 10 2010 14:37 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Well someone out there knows I'm a town member, sheesh.

I'm seriously waiting on BC. I want to see some multiparty analysis from him. Til then I'm going to vote for him. His argument with Bill was pretty...Well I was in it too....So I can't say much. But Bill did point out a good point with that about Happy.

I was just waiting for more from BC...and I haven't gotten much more.

On October 04 2010 09:24 SiNiquity wrote:
Annd town roles are out. Neat.

On October 06 2010 10:41 SiNiquity wrote:


Agreed. Mod should neither encourage nor discourage one to reveal the smurf's identity barring any smurfing rule.

On October 06 2010 10:54 SiNiquity wrote:
so protactinium, who are you? You're tied for the lead to be killed.

On October 06 2010 11:13 SiNiquity wrote:
I'm pretty sure lynching the village idiot means we all lose. I see no reason for mafia to play along.

On October 06 2010 11:29 SiNiquity wrote:
This presumes the Mafia is in a position to win - if they feel like they're losing, then it's the town's game to lose by following through with the lynch.

On October 06 2010 11:46 SiNiquity wrote:


Once the VI is truly out in the open, we could argue that Mafia forfeits now or we lynch the the VI. My point is, by lynching the VI we -also- lose, so yes if the mafia is down then they have no reason to follow through with the kill, just as we have no reason to follow through with it. Granted I see no reason why the mafia wouldn't kill the VI just to get rid of him, but I don't agree that we would be in a position to blackmail them.

On October 06 2010 11:48 SiNiquity wrote:

I called him out to reveal himself, he didn't. If he wants to take his identity to the grave then that's his decision.

On October 06 2010 12:04 SiNiquity wrote:
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
7. If you miss a vote or fail to post during one day cycle, you will be modkilled.

Not voting:
bumatlarge, kane]deth[, Infundi, Crisis_, Happy.fairytail

Not posted nor voted:
XeliN, JeeJee

Under the current rules we're looking at 7 mod kills. Hope some of those are mafia :\

On October 06 2010 12:50 SiNiquity wrote:

10 minutes left.

On October 06 2010 13:00 SiNiquity wrote:
I getcha, heh.

Also, Prot's headed to the gallows (bum just chimed in). Sorry buddy ~ could've thwarted this whole mess if you'd have fessed up.

On October 06 2010 12:04 SiNiquity wrote:
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
7. If you miss a vote or fail to post during one day cycle, you will be modkilled.

Not voting:
bumatlarge, kane]deth[, Infundi, Crisis_, Happy.fairytail

Not posted nor voted:
XeliN, JeeJee

Under the current rules we're looking at 7 mod kills. Hope some of those are mafia :\

On October 06 2010 12:05 SiNiquity wrote:
EBWOP: Credit (or blame if it's wrong) to BrownBear for that list, I simply pulled it from the vote thread.

On October 07 2010 12:10 SiNiquity wrote:
Also, BrownBear didn't slip anything about XeliN - I simply misread. You're spreading misinformation, so please stop.

On October 08 2010 12:15 SiNiquity wrote:
Disclaimer: This post is does not in any way encourage additional posting of PM or PM related information, nor do I wish to further the discussion of the PMs themselves. This post contains full disclosure of BM's method to further discourage any claiming. However, the prior claims are here to stay, for better or for worse. There's nothing that can be done, yet they've altered the meta game and as such cannot be ignored.

Alternatively a host could simply come out and confirm that the PM messages were different dependent on host, alleviating us of this meta-game aspect entirely. But if not, then the information's there, and should be taken full advantage of by the townies.

Now, in short, for those that don't feel like reading the spam starting from page 29 and going really until about page 35, Bill Murray demanded players to roleclaim, but emphasized players should carefully reread their PMs before claiming. It was actually very clever, as there was an underlying secret that only town players would recognize: town players were not PM'ed the word "town" but rather "townie" as their role. XeliN sums this up nicely:





Ironically, Bill, either in a burst of genius or insanity, incessantly insisted the correct answer was "town." And, best of yet, some people fell for it:








(Note: BC is especially guilty in this regard, as he kept referring to the town post in the OP as his point of reference). In fact the only player that correctly roleclaimed as far as I can surmise is OpZ:



Even now Bill maintains "town" is the correct answer, and his vigilance for this charade is admirable yet simultaneously disturbing on some deeper level. However, props to him for maintaining it for so long (I'd certainly be convinced).

Now there is the caveat that there were different wording in the PMs based on the host.



As such, take the following conclusions with a grain of salt:

Confirmed players from my perspective:

• Bill Murray
  
• ~OpZ~
  
• XeliN (maybe, first one to put 2-2 together but never identified "townie" as the correct solution).
  

Suspect players from my perspective:

• BloodyC0bbler (claimed "town")
  
• DoctorHelvetica (claimed "town")
  
• infinitestory (claimed "town")
  
• Divinek (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
  
• Amber[LighT] (just didn't get it, went off on XeliN)
  
• Nuke (just didn't get it)
  

Still need to look at the votes over the past day to see if there's anything worthwhile there. But I'm certainly curious as to what one of the "town" players will flip ~ if town, then there's possibly a host discrepancy. If not, then this only confirms my suspicions. It's the strongest lead we've got and I see no reason not to pursue it.

Anyway I'm off to bed to mull this over.

On October 09 2010 11:45 SiNiquity wrote:


Ack you're right. In that case I don't think we should be using them just yet. Going to go change it...

On October 09 2010 11:48 SiNiquity wrote:


Wait. So we're double lynching just to lynch BM "for free" tomorrow?

On October 09 2010 12:17 SiNiquity wrote:


That's terrible.

If BM's not mafia, there's no guarantee that Mafia won't gamble that he's not a VI and we waste our double lynch. I also don't believe there's more than 1 VI (protact), but that's just a hunch on my part.

Look, now that I understand BM's plan, I agree it was utterly and ridiculously stupid (seriously - "Hey guys I'm town, so what are you, town/townie, oh and btw if you're blue answer 'town' since that's the super-secret right answer, but otherwise tell me are you town/townie" Gee I wonder what -mafia- would respond with?). From my perspective (i.e. OpZ's), I thought it was all a clever trap.. too clever for BM though, and I should've realized that. But even as bad as his version was, I think it's a stretch to suggest a non-town player would initiate such action relying on some "correct" wording of town PMs which, if wrong, would mean his doom (as it turns out, there was more than one "correct" wording so either way he was right, but he couldn't have known that).

So in short, no, I don't think we should double lynch just to lynch BM, and I'm not convinced we're going to have enough information tomorrow to justify using one of our (two) double lynches.

Also james is correct ~ I've only voted for double lynch so far (and now unvoted). Still weeding through the thread to find my vote candidate.

On October 09 2010 12:47 SiNiquity wrote:
I don't think either Misder or XeliN are mafia, and if my tired count is correct they're the current big leaders in the vote.

On October 09 2010 13:10 SiNiquity wrote:
Yea you're free to post in twilight

On October 09 2010 13:12 SiNiquity wrote:


BrownBear said the night post would be coming late since it's Friday. idk 'bout Artanis

On October 09 2010 13:24 SiNiquity wrote:
I think that's a deafening no

On October 10 2010 23:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:

No sir BC, that is not what I meant. I've been waiting to see something from you, so I could generate a better opinion about you. You know I can't trust you, and never do. And personally, even bringing up BM in your post made me suspect you more. We know BM wasn't playing pro-town. We haven't lynched him for fear of VI. Why did you feel you needed to beat a dead horse BC?

If you want my opinion, you've done more than Amber, and Xelin, and South, and Meeple. Kinda...annoyed they aren't posting at all. What you all have nothing to say? I'd venture 2 of you are mafia. Amber especially under suspicion.

On October 10 2010 23:59 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Can someone explain to me why we voted for a double lynch? I could have sworn we were going to get this insane amount of information, yet from what it seems we're still running around with our heads cut off.

Like what the hell happened yesterday? The day seemed pretty cut and dry. Vote Xelin and then see if mafia touches BM. Was this plan not sound? Then someone suggested a double lynch. I wasn't keen on the idea of doing this, and I vocally said going for a double lynch so early was a terrible idea.

So now we didn't lynch Xelin, but instead went for someone who wasn't even being discussed until the last 12 hours of the day (since I checked frequently up until then). What seems to be the plan? Where does Xelin sit on the list? BM? Did we just forget about them.

There is one thing I want to raise as suspicion, and everyone should consider this:



I'm HIGHLY suspicious of this since we can't really check. Not only do I find it fishy that he would say this, but it's also weird that we would have 2 veterans with the possibility of a bulletproof in this game. It would seem that in a game this small it's more likely that only one person would fulfill each role, at the most. It makes no sense to stack roles like Veterans in this game, since our last veteran that died obviously had no clue how to use his role. However I will say that I am not suspcious of Opz because if he is a Veteran, he used the role very well, and his posts should be looked at to see who he targeted, if there's any relevant posts.

But I want everyone to mull over this. Our friend, BC, used the same tactic in another mafia game and it ruined the town for about 2 days because we didn't act!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133561&currentpage=81#1610

Cliffs: BC claimed to be protected by a medic on Night 2. We played along and didn't act upon this claim. He then went on to completely obliterate the town in the subsequent days in BM's game.

Is Opz lying? Well if you want to be sure we can lynch him. He isn't really useful anymore if he's already been hit once. He has been playing the fence throughout the whole game. Usually he pushes players against a wall more frequently, and he wasn't doing this in an aggressive way this time.

For the second lynch, you guys can figure it out. You wanted 2, now start investigating. I'm going to just vote for Xelin again since the double lynch plan was more sound with Xelin dying yesterday and BM dying today.

On October 12 2010 08:47 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Siniquity, you really need to format your posts better. BC please tell me ONE thing. Why did you vote for Amber?

On October 12 2010 13:57 ~OpZ~ wrote:
........

I'm insanely mad at Amber right now and can not correctly type and format a post right now. Amber, I fucking don't understand you so much right now. I mean I see where that was coming from...Anyway, lynch told us hell of a lot.


Vigi, if you exist hit BC.

=D

Considering Amber was BP, not Vet, We can assume I'm not BP. Now that leaves me to either have been Vet or Med prot'd. If I am vet, well, I'm out of night lives. So I think it's okay if I tell you guys how I'm alive. I posted before that someone out there knows I'm town. I was saved by a medic, which was insanely lucky. Thank you for whoever said I was a good protection candidate.

I see why Amber said I'd be useless as I'd of taken my hit. His posts make hella sense now. Fucccccck Amber FUUUUUUUUUCK. Why couldn't you of just role claimed. You'd of been PERFECT. and you were quiet as an UNKILLABLE?
Sorry.

Anyway, the importance of this now. To the medic that saved me, i'm 100% confirmed (unless a vig would like to step forward saying you hit me). Now, why I suspect BC. He went onto Amber with my wishy washy post that got him an ass of votes. I personally feel it wasn't that great of a post. Anyway, he allows that weak little points on Amber were enough. Maybe I'm doubting myself, but I would of laughed at that kind of analysis if I was BC. (See- pretty much any post by BC). Anyway, happy f'd up first, and BC f'd up second.


Amber. Fuck man you should of just claimed. Fuck I was out too late ><.