Pick Your Power Mafia 2!

On August 21 2010 07:33 chaoser wrote:


there's a difference between saying there's probably 4 (assumption) and mafia has 4 (definite). Either way, we need a day 1 lynch, he could be it.

On August 21 2010 07:53 Bill Murray wrote:
@Radfield, quit being unhelpful
claim your number, and pick it yourself. If you do not claim your number previously to picking it, I'm going to be pushing for your lynch. Everyone claim their numbers.

chaoser:4
Pandain:6
Bill:7

On May 11 2010 12:52 Ace wrote:
There are a ton of fun roles I would use but I just don't trust people ^_^. No one picked Mason(big mistake), SK got Floridian (perfect pick for SK) and no one saw that coming, no bulletproof(luckily Scum didn't get this), and Pardoner dropped all the way to the end (wtf?!).

Zona made a good point, you have roles you want to deny to the Mafia but there are roles you absolutely need. Compulsive Vigilante isn't even that dangerous when compared to Bulletproof Scum avoiding SK hits, Scum Pardoners that can argue, and Scum that takes Tracker and starts framing everyone.

On August 21 2010 20:46 Radfield wrote:



I just realized why this is a very, very bad plan if everyone doesn't go along with it.

By everyone publicly stating their numbers, it makes it extremely easy for mafia to somwhat rig the draft to their liking. After looking at the plan I proposed, mafia realize that it would be very beneficial for them to hold the number 3 draft spot(prince of darkness). Lets also say that LSB (the 5th pick) is mafia. So the mafia would have two other players double up numbers with rastaban and chaoser, and voila, mafia have pick number 3.

Of course, if everyone declares their numbers, we can easily track who didn't land in the proper spots, who doubled up, and who benefited from the new draft order. We could pinpoint mafia fairly easy.

BUT, if some people don't tell us their numbers, or RNG, or don't check the thread again, then it becomes much more difficult to pinpoint the mafia, and lets them manipulate the draft as they see fit.

This gives us two options: we put pressure on the last 8 players to reveal their numbers, or we scrap the plan and all resend our numbers. At this point it makes sense to simply carry on with our number picking.

I hope this makes sense to the folks who haven't sent in numbers yet.

On August 22 2010 00:33 Pandain wrote:


Heck no, we need to do this to ensure
1. We get good roles
2. we get comp vigi.
The only good thing about your plan is really that it makes it so mafia is unsure as to who will pick what.
doesn't really matter, as people are claiming roles. Again, i don't see how you being mafia will even hurt it, as your plan is solid and only hurts the mafia. Again, we have bullet bill. If someone picks a non designated role, their mafia.

You have no control over who picks what, only what they pick. And as long as the town agrees, we have no worries over that.

Also, fun suscipision time.(just for bragging rights in case i'm right.)
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 22 2010 02:31 DarthThienAn wrote:

That makes a lot more sense then. I was assuming that you were saying use ONLY this number plan and then do whatever for picks...
The only other thing on my mind now is that, though this plan lets us find scum that double up, it also allows scum to know what everyone is picking. But hmm... I guess if they sacrifice a mafia player by doubling up in order to get a role, that's actually worth it.

On August 22 2010 09:16 Radfield wrote:
I agree with Citizen and Siniquity here. There is simply no benefit to having public numbers. Lets stick with hidden numbers.

Sinquity, we could have another pick slightly lower down (#2-5) also take Comp Vig. This would double check that the first player actually did take the CV role. We could also add in a percentage for taking CV in the 4-6 slots instead.

Citizen, the reason I would be against lynching the CV on day 1, is that the role doesn't hurt us until late game. As long as the CV follows orders, we get a double lynch each day. A double lynch is always advantageous for town, as it means we get to kill off 2 people each day/night cycle instead of 1. Without the CV role, Mafia/SK have a KP of 2, we have a KP of 1. With the CV role, Mafia/SK have a KP of 2, we have a KP of 2. Big benefit for town. At some point the CV becomes a liability(if we keep mislynching), but at the start of the game, a CV following orders is a plus for the town. If the CV ever doesn't shoot the proper player, then we lynch the CV, and the player who was supposed to get hit.

This plan however, leaves slots 14-20 as quite vulnerable to hits from both the SK and the Mafia. Therefore, our medics need to be protecting these slots(as well as the CV slot) to increase the chances of blocking a hit. Spots 2-4 don't really matter if they die, spots 5-13 have a decent shot at having a defensive role.

On August 23 2010 11:33 Pandain wrote:
Before I clicked "more random numbers", I said to myself I would actually go with whatever it decided.
So despite the fact I kept on saying "I'm gonna be mason" I will only do so if it lays within 6-10. Sending in my role.

Also, Citizen, are you saying that all the SK has to do is kill the bullet bill and then he can go safely? (besides role cop at first) Just want to know what your saying before I respond.

On August 24 2010 01:22 Radfield wrote:


Why are you ignoring the plan? It's like you're determined to be hard-headed about this "game hasn't started" business. Let me quote Ace for you "The game has now officially started!"

Either post why you think the plan has flaws so we can iron them out, like citizen is doing, or help out by coming up with something else. Don't make excuses for why you're not helping.

Citizen, I have more to say to address and expand on your concerns, I just don't have the time right now.

Also, People may need to send in new roles to Ace since the drafting order has changed.

On August 24 2010 06:21 Divinek wrote:


that was my one true hope as well going into this draft

On August 24 2010 11:16 chaoser wrote:
um, why isn't copy cat up on top? mafia will probably try to kill CV and if copy cat is in their hands then they'll get the power...

On August 24 2010 11:28 Pandain wrote:


14-16

75% chance of copy cat(more so since it's recomeneded.) So sure mafia can try to kill the CV despite doctor protection, but it'll all be a waste >.

On August 22 2010 12:20 johnnyspazz wrote:
it's not really forced double lynches everyday. we can just no lynch and have the CV shoot.

On August 25 2010 12:29 Divinek wrote:


why was he such a good lynch target? What does he ever do day 1 besides suggest retarded plans that can screw the town over. Why bother wasting a lynch on someone you know we'll have to kill because of his play style.

Why risk a repeat performance of pyp

On August 25 2010 23:58 SouthRawrea wrote:
Well shit. I would like to announce that at least 2 people did not follow along with the plan made for role picking.

On August 25 2010 10:28 citi.zen wrote:
The first 3 spots should stick to the designated picks, and be held accountable for it. Fourth spot could choose roleblocker.

After that the only thing you should be doing is randomizing between a defensive role and useful town role. Don't announce exactly what you do (ex: don't say you're 50% cop). Randomize honestly, we need defensive roles.

On August 25 2010 10:24 Radfield wrote:
I don't think we should scrap the plan. Stick with the plan, as it should give us a ton of good roles.

The only addendum I think really may need to happen is picking up the roleblocker fairly high up.

However, having a traitor in those top 4 picks is actually really great, because if the mafia want to try and pick up the traitor, they have to start shooting at the roles we already want dead: CV, Bad Santa, PoD, maybe Roleblocker. Great, let them do our work for us. We really don't need to worry about the traitor at all for now.

Traitor - You hold no allegiance to the town. If you are targeted by Scum at night with any action, instead of that action happening you'll be recruited by them instead. You lose if the Mafia lose. However you are part of the town count before recruitment. This role is nullified for the Serial Killer(s) since it may be too broken if they have it.

On August 26 2010 02:35 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I feel like hearing from Chaoser, LSB, Subversion a little more....Too quiet TBH.

I would like some more information right now. We can either ignore hesmyrr from this point or not. Anyone got some stances on that?

Radfield, you are forgetting the mafia can target the traitor with ANY action and obtain the traitor onto their team. I'm curious if we are informed if the mafia's number grows, since we know how many mafia are in the game already.

Ace could you clarify that?

On August 26 2010 02:37 zeks wrote:
You are Vanilla Scum!

The ability to kill 1 player per night belongs to you. One of you must PM me a kill for the night even though all of you participate in the kill.

Remember you can coordinate your # picks during the draft phase. The Mafia team this round consists of: Jack, Jill, this bottle and my ecstasy pills!

You win when you outnumber the town, or there is no way for them to stop you from outnumbering them.

see bolded part. Unless that's some meme or some inside joke I'm assuming theres 4 scum?

On August 26 2010 05:15 Pandain wrote:
Wait... you can't shoot tonight?
If so, what does that mean about the next days lynch. We can't just kill SR tonight then. -.-

On August 26 2010 09:45 Fishball wrote:


You're missing my point. I'm not blaming you or anyone for putting the CV as the 4th pick. The CV draft chance should rightfully be there due to the exact reason you mentioned. My post above was based specifically on Hesmyrr's scenario; More of an "If I were him, how I would think" scenario.

We all know Hesmyrr is not likely to be Mafia, or else he'll just be suicidal.

Keep in mind, I'm not denying the chances of Hesmyrr of being Traitor at all. The post above is simply explaining why I asked the question hours ago.

On August 26 2010 10:08 zeks wrote:


You can also go a game back when he was Miller

On August 26 2010 13:24 JeeJee wrote:


the hell are you babbling about

On August 21 2010 03:34 Radfield wrote:
OK, lets get the ball rolling here. First things first: Roles.

I've divided the roles into several categories, first is essential town roles. These are roles that we absolutely have to have. This is a 20 person game, and the mafia have a KP of one. SK also has a KP of 1. CompVig has a KP of 1, Town has lynch power of 1. This means 4 deaths per night, so we get 4 days before we're in trouble. Given this fact, we need as much investigative power as possible. This is how we will win the game.

Essential Roles(Investigative)
Role Cop - GF
Watcher - GF, Mafia, SK
Tracker - GF, Mafia, SK
Joat - Mafia
Bullet Bill - GF, Mafia, SK

You may have noticed that Alignment Cop is not on this essential list. This is for two reasons. The sanity of the Alignment Cop is unknown, and the Alignment Cop cannot find either the Godfather, or the Serial Killer. Of those five roles, Watcher, Tracker and Bullet Bill are the most important, due to the fact they can find the Godfather and the Serial Killer. I cannot stress enough that these are the most important pro-town roles in the game. Yes there are a lot of roles that seem cooler or more fun, but these five roles are what will win us the game.

Second is the Mafia roles:

These are roles that are fantastic in mafia hands, mediocre or downright useless in Town hands:

KP roles
Comp Vig
Bad Santa
Vengeful Player
Day Vig

Other
Floridian
God Father
Role Blocker
Pardoner

A few of these may stand out as being neutral as opposed to pro-mafia, but don't be fooled. ANYTHING that adds additional KP to the game is bad for the town. Why? Obviously first and foremost because they hasten the end of the game for the town, considering that town players have a very bad track record with extraneous KP. Second, not only does a missed shot eliminate a town player, it also eliminates a Power Role. Every player should be assumed to have a role, which means if a town player uses KP and misses, we may lose a vital role for the town. We have lynches as town, so lets kill players that way.

Comp Vig: I've bolded CompVig in that list for a very good reason. I believe that this role is perhaps the most important in the game. In unknown hands (mafia hands) CompVig doubles the Mafia KP. In known hands(Town or Mafia) the CompVig doubles our lynch Power. Each day we vote on who the compvig will hit that night. IE, CompVig: Qatol. In PYP1, the CompVig was held by a mafia, but it didn't matter, because he followed the town direction and killed who we wanted killed. If the CompVig doesn't follow our direction they die.

Yes, in PYP1 the CV only hit townies, but he hit scummy townies that were up for lynch, instead of hitting townies who were playing pro-town. This is a huge difference.

I propose that whomever gets 1st pick takes CV. To not take CV as first pick is, in my eyes, extremely anti-town. We absolutely MUST know who has this role. Once we know, the power of the role is neutralized.

Bad Santa is the other important role on this list, and is the most useful role on the list for town to have because it has a hint of investigative power, and gives information to the town.

The other 6 roles are all pro-mafia roles. Some people are saying we as town should try to take these roles so that mafia cannot get them. I disagree with that sentiment. The better route to go, is to have every pro-town player avoid these roles like the plague(with the exception of CV). This means that our Role Cop(already essential for town), becomes a super cop. Because anyone who has any of those 6/7 roles is automatically a mafia member. None of those 6/7 roles are powerful enough to warrant us blocking the mafia from getting them, so we should steer clear of them and give ourselves a bonus on investigation. Also, by leaving DayVig, Bad Santa and Vengeful Player(??) for the mafia to take, it makes Bullet Bill much stronger by him not getting confused by pro-town players with guns.

Other Good Roles for Town

Alignment Cop
Bulletproof
Veteran
Meth Man
Doctor
Doctor

These roles don't really need any explanation. They are all much more pro-town then pro-mafia.

This leaves the last three(unless I missed some):
Mason
Martyr
Copy Cat

Mason is powerful in the right hands. Martyr is so-so. Copy Cat is not real important in my eyes, given that we start with a lynch, so the mafia can't snipe the CV and then scoop it up. However, if we lynch someone on Day 1 who is Vanilla, then we run the risk of having mafia take the CV via the Copy Cat, which would be very bad for the town. For this reason, I think we should have whoever is at pick #5 be responsible for taking Copy Cat. Thoughts?



If mafia chooses to take the pro-mafia roles, that's great. It gives us more effective investigative powers. If mafia chooses to avoid the pro-mafia roles, that's also great, as it keeps the most effective power roles from the mafia.

We should probably have some way of divvying up the 5 essential roles so that we know they all get taken. Possibly divide the first 15 draft picks into 5 groups of 3, and give each group 1 of the essential roles. 1-3 Role Cop, 4-6 Tracker, 7-9 Watcher, etc. Then whichever player wants an investigative role knows which one they can pick. IE, the 7th player wants an investigative role, so he knows that his option is watcher. Something like that. Thoughts?

To recap: We prioritize the essential 5 roles for town and make sure they get taken, no town players take any of the pro-mafia roles, first draft pick takes CV, 5th draft pick takes Copy Cat.

The town has the advantage in this set-up, we just have to be smart enough to use it.

Please address as many points here as you can. Agree or Disagree. This is when we make our plan for the entire game.

On August 06 2010 19:29 Radfield wrote:



Yeah, I was planning on taking the Impatient Mason role if I was Town this game. I had a decent plan of action and it would've been super fun for me

I feel like no one is ever going to take Alignment Cop. With a 50% chance of getting a useless role(naive and paranoid), and 3 or 4 other good investigative roles out there, it's just too much to risk your pick on.


Also, just a little reminder to everyone. After the draft you will need to PM the role you want to Ace, he's not going to PM you to ask. Last game like 5 of the 20 people didn't choose a role, which made things way harder for town then they needed to be.

On August 27 2010 01:43 LSB wrote:
I have done extensive analysis on my role. PoD. And I concluded it
is disastrous for me to even consider using it early. If ever

I did this analysis during the drafting phase of PyP. I did some
(major) editing to account for the DayVig

Standard Scenario
Assumptions
SK: 1. Always kills a town
Mafia: 2. Always kills a town
CompVig: 1. Kills town on even nights, kills mafia on odd nights. Does
not die (Mafia doesn’t want to kill the CompVig, unless he starts
hitting reds 100%)
Lynching: We lynch a town on our first two tries, and then we lynch
mafia the rest of the time
All the other KP stopping/Adding KP just ‘balances out’.

Not using my power (Expected Outcome)
Day 1: 13/4/1
Night 1: 12/4/1
Day 2: 10/4/1
Night 2: 9/4/1
Day 3: 6/4/1
Night 3: 6/3/1
Day 4: 4/2/1
Night 4: 4/1/1
Day 5: 1/1/1
Total Days: 4

Using My power 1st night
Day 1: 13/4/1
Night 1: 12/4/1
Night 2: 10/4/1
Day 3: 7/4/1
Night 3: 6/4/1
Day 4: 3/3/1
Worse Odds
Total Days: 3

Using My power 2nd night
Day 1: 13/4/1
Night 1: 12/4/1
Day 2: 10/4/1
Night 2: 9/4/1
Night 3: 6/4/1
Day 4: 4/3/1
Night 4: 4/2/1
Day 5: 2/2/1
Total Days: 3

Generally: Using my power ends the game one day earlier. Even though
we do get role checks, lynching is a major town power that allows us
to kill mafia. The more lynches the better

Conclusion:
Even though this analysis is in a vacuum with no other roles. It
isvery dangerous, and benefits the mafia greatly. I have to
watch out for people wanting to use my power.

On August 21 2010 08:58 LSB wrote:


rastaban: 3
chaoser:4
LSB: 5
Pandain:6
Bill: 7
Hesmyrr/zeks: 8

I will be picking 5,1

On August 21 2010 10:19 LSB wrote:
Number Claims (Please tell me if you change)

JeeJee: 1
DTA: 2
rastaban: 3
chaoser:4
LSB: 5
Bill: 6
Hesmyrr/zeks: 8
Pandain: 12

On August 22 2010 03:59 LSB wrote:
If you guys want a plan, we should assign people roles. The 20 least detrimental to town roles. Although people will get scum roles, they can still utilize them for town.
+ Show Spoiler +

Just randomly assign people to a role. Then, role cops / watchers have their job a lot easier. Also, if a person picks a role, and discovers he's vanilla, its another way to detect something fishy.

On August 22 2010 04:00 LSB wrote:
If you are concerned about blue sniping, I can PM everyone their roles. That way no mafia will know.

The day vigi can kill me day 1 to verify that I am town.

On August 22 2010 04:03 Pandain wrote:
No, Radfield's plan is already incrediably solid and allows more information and scum hunting abilities. And already no one really has to be concerned about blue sniping.

On August 22 2010 04:06 LSB wrote:
Oh whoops, first readthrough I didn't get it. I agree with Radfield's plan.

But why is Day Vig a mafia role?

On August 27 2010 02:29 LSB wrote:
Oh I didnt bother to read the bottom of your post Citi.zen

But its halarious why you think I 'backed down'. The reason why I backed down is that there are No PMs .

On August 27 2010 02:26 LSB wrote:

You paint a picture of me that is completly incorrect and then you claim that I am not following it and therefore call me out?

I am not recklass. I do not argue with anyone untill I am certain that they are mafia. I might have made a mistake about Ace, but your preformance was desicive, in a bad way.

Look back at my posts in the games. I am analytic, I discuss plans, and I look at incentives.

Please don't spread wrong information

On August 27 2010 02:36 LSB wrote:

I know what I am talking about.

That post was to explain that I had not found a flaw in his plan

The fact that there is no pms is why i decided not to expand on my idea

Just wondering. So why did you not include that post in your "analysis" of me? Is it because its easier to twist my words to fit your own thoughts?
Why did you not include any of my real Day 1 posts, and instead settle on my posts to help keep track of things? The person you portray does not exist

On August 27 2010 01:43 LSB wrote:
I have done extensive analysis on my role. PoD. And I concluded it
is disastrous for me to even consider using it early. If ever

I did this analysis during the drafting phase of PyP. I did some
(major) editing to account for the DayVig

Standard Scenario
Assumptions
SK: 1. Always kills a town
Mafia: 2. Always kills a town
CompVig: 1. Kills town on even nights, kills mafia on odd nights. Does
not die (Mafia doesn’t want to kill the CompVig, unless he starts
hitting reds 100%)
Lynching: We lynch a town on our first two tries, and then we lynch
mafia the rest of the time
All the other KP stopping/Adding KP just ‘balances out’.

Not using my power (Expected Outcome)
Day 1: 13/4/1
Night 1: 12/4/1
Day 2: 10/4/1
Night 2: 9/4/1
Day 3: 6/4/1
Night 3: 6/3/1
Day 4: 4/2/1
Night 4: 4/1/1
Day 5: 1/1/1
Total Days: 4

Using My power 1st night
Day 1: 13/4/1
Night 1: 12/4/1
Night 2: 10/4/1
Day 3: 7/4/1
Night 3: 6/4/1
Day 4: 3/3/1
Worse Odds
Total Days: 3

Using My power 2nd night
Day 1: 13/4/1
Night 1: 12/4/1
Day 2: 10/4/1
Night 2: 9/4/1
Night 3: 6/4/1
Day 4: 4/3/1
Night 4: 4/2/1
Day 5: 2/2/1
Total Days: 3

Generally: Using my power ends the game one day earlier. Even though
we do get role checks, lynching is a major town power that allows us
to kill mafia. The more lynches the better

Conclusion:
Even though this analysis is in a vacuum with no other roles. It
isvery dangerous, and benefits the mafia greatly. I have to
watch out for people wanting to use my power.

On August 27 2010 01:55 LSB wrote:

If your wondering about my post, it is to say that I arrived at roughly the same conclusion that you did

I really wan't to hear Paldian. Please explain yourself and your motives

On August 27 2010 11:00 Hesmyrr wrote:
Of course, I really may not be understanding the benefits of PoD case since ~OpZ~ ninja post seem to be supporting it, but if Radfield suddenly starts acting scummy it is something to take note.

On August 27 2010 12:58 LSB wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why SR wants us to lynch him.

There has been a lot of suspision on whether or not SR is geniuine. SR could be trying to lynch himself to prove that there is a traitor.
HOWEVER. This would be wasting two lynches for very little information. A very promafia tactic

This casts some doubt on my side

On the other hand, there is a lot of suspicion on SR. Possibly he could be a mafia going on a sucide run, seing how much damages and fake associations he can make before he dies.
The real question then is, is 1 town dead due to Vengeful Player worth 1 mafia?

On August 27 2010 23:14 rastaban wrote:


Remember, the watcher is actually a horrible role this game. Even if they watched someone we investigated they would only know how many people visited him.

The biggest worry I have is the mafia trying to target people as we investigate them, which would keep us from building up a group of confirmed innocents. On the other hand if you are the alignment cop you don't know what your sanity is so the faster your first target dies and help confirm it the better (the reason why we want them to target someone who will probably die tomorrow).

On August 28 2010 10:14 Pandain wrote:


Don't roleclaim. It makes mafia unable to tell whether they actually hit a good role or the target just got medic protection.
And roleclaiming won't help us anyway since no pms. Only thing it does is make them confirmed, but even then that isn't that helpful. If really need be he can say he got hit if he's going to die.

Also, the serial killer did.

On August 29 2010 03:54 JeeJee wrote:


how did you draw the conclusion that there is a traitor somewhere?

On August 29 2010 04:41 zeks wrote:
Radfield: I went with the 33/33/33 role cop / copy cat / defensive role because there was mention that copycat should be picked earlier. I truthfully randomed my role.

Something that I've discovered

SR #6 below me is assumed vanilla town, Subversion at #7 was vanilla mafia

Which means Subversion could've overlaped with
1. rastaban CV
2. chaoser Bad Santa/traitor
3. LSB PoD/traitor
5. me RC/CC/Defensive role/traitor

Likelihood of Subversion picking

CV
next to nothing

Bad Santa or PoD
Don't see why Subversion will pick those either.

Traitor:
He's scum so he wouldn't pick traitor.

me: RC/CC/Defensive Role
Subversion likely overlapped with me and since Subversion is dead then it is likely that scum would know what my role is...

Unless Subversion overlapped with SouthRawrea, then that means South never picked traitor in the beginning - which doesn't make sense because South would be a townie with a role but lied about being a traitor

Thus conclusion: mafia knows my role and wants me dead by lynch since they couldn't finish the job last night

Which is why I'm not claiming because they will call me out on it.

On August 29 2010 07:11 SouthRawrea wrote:


4 people visited Zeks. Any mafia actions show as all mafia visiting to the watcher. (Including ones that die by day) Thus if mafia visited Zeks, then no townies other than the watcher visited Zeks correct? Simple. However, Zeks said he was shot and protected. He couldn't have been shot by Vig as they can't shoot. He claims he was protected by the doctor. If he was protected by the doctor and shot by the mafia, the watcher would've seen 5 people visiting Zeks which is NOT the case. Thus it was either a combination of SK and town roles that visited Zeks or only mafia. The fact that Zeks is still alive means that he was either CONVERTED by mafia or was never visited by them. That better?

On August 29 2010 11:50 Fishball wrote:


I just got back from some weekend activities and I see my name all over the place. What have you done ~Opz~?

Just went through 9 pages, and wanted to make a quick short comment to the bold part up top.

Comp Vig cannot shoot on Night 1...

He couldn't anyways. It was night 1

On August 27 2010 08:18 Fishball wrote:
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something; trolls just because.

On August 29 2010 23:42 Radfield wrote:
Fishball, I'd still like to hear who you looked at last night. I can't see any reason why you wouldn't claim, even if you did look at Opz or jeejee(potential JOATs). The info is simply more worthwhile in town hands then in mafia. Certainly if you looked at anyone other than Opz or Jeejee you should reveal.

I may be wrong here though, so if anyone disagrees speak up.

On August 29 2010 16:00 Pandain wrote:


O i see I forgot about the Joat. He's possibly one of our last investigative roles too :/ .
So kp is now 1? 1 kill a night is really managable n.n

On August 30 2010 02:55 Radfield wrote:


First: we had no idea what subversion drafted, he could have gone for CompVig for all we knew.

Second: Even if zeks did claim role cop, it could have still been bs, since of course he has to claim either role cop or a defensive role. But yes, it was foolish for him to claim role cop, that was his real mistake.

Third: Zeks acting cornered doesn't make him more likely to be either SK or traitor. He was in the spotlight the moment I asked for his roleclaim, and he messed it up from there.

At no point was the possibility of zeks being traitor zero. In fact, up until his admission of SK, I still thought he might be traitor.

On August 30 2010 04:59 Fishball wrote:
I don't think having me check SR would be the best way to go.
The Traitor scenario is only left with 3 players.
Assuming SR is the Traitor afterall, do you think the Mafia would actually recruit him? He is bound to die sooner or later. Recruiting the Traitor doesn't increases the Mafias' KP. Leaving SR alone would be in their best interest, while they can focus their powers on other players. The only situation that I can think of where the Mafia would deliberately recruit a Traitor out in the open, would be at an end game nail-biting scenario when a single player count would be a win/lose.

Anyways, I think there are plenty of candidates on our player list to check. Some of the fishier players, we have BrownBear, JeeJee, DarthThienAn, SiNiquity, and Pandain. Hell, even Radfield is not confirmed. If I checked Radfield and he doesn't have a gun, Town basically have a smart, semi-confirmed Townie to go to, granted if me and Radfield are not Mafia.

I'll be picking one of the players listed above to check tonight.

On August 30 2010 22:46 Radfield wrote:



Of course it needs to be mentioned that you could still be scum if both you AND fishball are scum. Seems highly highly unlikely though. So unlikely in fact, that it's really not worth discussing.

On August 31 2010 05:00 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Hey Citizen...I'm guessing you think Radfield should be tracked tonight? =P
Would you do that if you were tracker?

On August 31 2010 06:00 Pandain wrote:


I don't see how this is anyway more effective than tracking South and killing LSB. Except in our plan if LSB happens to be mafia, we manage to kill him(since he is an extremely dangerous role in the hands of mafia.)
So my way is the same, with an added bonus. Stick with tracking South.

Sudden change, Citizen. Very interesting one too. Hiding something?
*Insert more random baseless suspicion*

On August 31 2010 10:11 Radfield wrote:
GG Town, GG Mafia

Have Fun

Now I can actually spend more time working and less time playing mafia

On August 31 2010 11:27 Fishball wrote:


If everyone decides to follow your lynch, I will cast my vote for Opz as well.

But I want everyone, including you, to remember one thing.
I said he has no gun, and that is a true as it gets.

On August 31 2010 11:29 chaoser wrote:
Ok Ace, question. Since mafia all visit a person when they kill him, does that mean they are all "responsible" for his death? If yes, does that mean if I have even on mafia on my list, I would get my power?

On August 31 2010 12:05 chaoser wrote:
ok guys, from what Ace said, the people on my list, if you believe me to be townie, are all innocent/townie since Radfield was on my list, he died and no one on my list was the cause of his death. My list is:

radfield, sin, ~opz~, citi.zen, bumatlarge

yeah...figure that shit out....

On August 31 2010 12:41 chaoser wrote:
Just to tell you all, there would be only one reason I would give out the list I did and that would be to save Opz from citi.zen. That's about it. What good is it for mafia if I played the move I just did? It would have been better if I didn't say anything cause I could just make up any list I want to incriminate anyone else.

On August 31 2010 13:16 bumatlarge wrote:
*MMBOP - The was a nifty list of all roles not claimed, but apparently we have a mafia methman running around also? Or maybe its just the traitor thrashin for info. Lets poke him with a stick, and kill south now.

On September 01 2010 05:11 Pandain wrote:
Cause guys remember, as long as we keep the CV aiming towards our townie aims, mafia has to roleblock him to delay us winning. And then they can't roleblock people like me for instance.

On September 01 2010 05:15 Fishball wrote:
Did the possibility of SR being the Vengeful Player just went right out of the window?

On September 01 2010 05:48 Ace wrote:

As an aside, I designed and tweaked some of the roles so that it wasn't easy to figure out which roles were really good in all instances ^_^

On September 01 2010 05:43 Pandain wrote:

Oh wow, you know that's my plan. You say as long as we aim right, but all that matters is we find the RB eventually. They will have to roleblock him in order to delay.

Anyway, Its not JeeJee. DTA would've claimed being roleblocked(since Jeejee visited him night one.)

He's either alignment cop or Joat or doctor. But if he's scum the only reason he would be alignment cop is to delay roles, as mafia already know all the alignments. In addition, he's not doctor since he claimed to have "been able to confirm that citizen is telling the truth and opz is lying".

Therefore, he's either a scum alignment cop(doubtful) or Joat, joat being the more likely.

But now I'm starting to think he may be a townie Joat/alignment cop, who thought he had been able to confirm what's the truth, but then realized either he had a sanity part, or realized he didn't have enough info.

If he's town joat, he investigated darth, as why would he protect/talk to him on first night? In addition, he definitely didn't shoot him.

But then he wouldn't have been able to "confirm" the truth.

Therefore, he's town alignment cop, or scum alignment cop/joat.

On September 01 2010 05:58 Pandain wrote:

Yes. I asked Ace(whether in thread or out, can't remember)

On September 01 2010 10:54 SiNiquity wrote:


It's actually a great idea. If Chaoser is indeed red (and not even necessarily Bad Santa, could be any role with a made up list) then confirming a bunch of people who were pro-town (bum via very helpful watcher info, myself via fishball whose role was confirmed via zeks, radfield by dying) and slipping a mafia or 2 on the list is the best play possible..

Which is why lynching Chaoser, not SR was the move to make tonight. Confirming the list is way more imperative than this traitor bullshit, but it even has the benefit of removing a top 3 role should SR be telling the truth. But the town had to rush off and majority lynch.

-_- gj.

On September 01 2010 11:13 Divinek wrote:


they could try but if this is our plan surely we'll be trying to protect someone from that list, and there's probably a meth man and maybe other defensive roles in there. If we kill chaoser we basically confirm like 1/4 to 1/3 of the remaining players, id say that's useful

it's better than going oh well we lynch a guy so we know there's a traitor in the top 3, now we KNOW these people are 100% on our side so we can believe all they say, all their claims, THIS IS SO USEFUL, and we'll obviously protect our most powerful roles from that list. They can pop vanillas all they want rofl

On September 01 2010 11:16 SiNiquity wrote:
Ya, maybe we should've gone with it?

Yes, let's assume that Chaoser is town and everyone is already confirmed, and then justify not lynching him because "it's not worth it." Great idea. Citizen you're a better player than this, what's with the bad play?

On September 01 2010 09:46 Pandain wrote:
Actually, you know what I decided?

I am the pardoner, but then I went back on my decision to pardon Zeks(pmed ace.)
Amazed no one called me out on saying i'll martyr radfield, but then he dies.

##Pardon SouthRawrea

On September 01 2010 11:43 Pandain wrote:


Yup n.n. But a harmless lie(no malicious outcome... aka I would be found out in 3 hours).

So if i was mafia it would have no p ositive outcome. Therefore, you know it was a joke. Moving on, I'll lay out the warground once we see how south flips.

On September 01 2010 15:21 chaoser wrote:
Hmm interesting...so me rasta or LSB is a traitor...

On September 01 2010 21:48 Fishball wrote:


No, SR picked CV but said it was taken.

On September 01 2010 21:19 chaoser wrote:


Ok thanks, so it's down to me and LSB. I think LSB is the better choice for obvious reasons

On August 31 2010 11:47 LSB wrote:


Wrong house Bum. Lucky I was there too, trying to enjoy my last night properly!

That could explain some of your posts though!

On August 31 2010 12:55 LSB wrote:


(this also replies your other post)
I don't really think you are traitor, however, this is actually good for the mafia as it meddles up who is wrong and who is right, causing confusion for the town

The best way to figure this out is to confirm Chaoser.
Not by lynching him, that would be bad, but lynching SR. SR flips traitor, chaoser is confirmed, and then we have a nice tight town circle of 5 people, maybe more

Think about that: we've already established one of them has to be the traitor, but LSB tells us he does not think it's Chaoser!

On September 01 2010 23:33 Fishball wrote:


You do bring up a good point from the Mafia point of view about bringing up the list, but this argument can go in circles (as well as most of the arguments in Mafia games). Hell, people still accuse me, and to be quite frankly, there is nothing I can do to prove myself 100%, there will always be doubt.

The way I see it, both of you are likely to end up dead, due to one of the reasons I listed above. Let's says best case scenario, we do nail LSB as the Traitor, but it doesn't clears you at all. The fact that 3 players would be cleared if you flipped Pro-Town, is a HUGE advantage to Town.

Thanks for agreeing with me though.

On September 02 2010 03:36 Fishball wrote:


It's fine by me, since I said I'll take suggestions.

But why would they Role Block our CV again if we're not hitting LSB? And if we're hitting LSB, and get Role Blocked, and I revealed he has a gun, we still cant kill him until a lynch later, and Chaoser himself is not cleared. If lynching Chaoser flips him green, LSB will have to die regardless, along with 3 confirmed Townies. I really think it isn't necessary to use more resources here.

If more people wants me to check LSB, I'll do it. If not, we'll have to figure out our actions fast. So far there are only a few of us that checked in this morning.

On September 02 2010 05:04 Fishball wrote:


Trying hard citizen?
That statement was just in reply to your idiotic proposal of checking LSB. I try to keep my manners, but it's obviously you're just single minded.
I have no problems whatsoever if we try to CV him again, like what Pandain proposed.

On September 02 2010 06:40 Fishball wrote:


No, I did not say that, nor imply that. That is what YOU think what I said. Simple question, blown out of proportion. Big surprise.



I think I know what you're trying to say now.

You're basically implying Rastaban will be blocked for sure. That I don't know; I'm an equally good target to be blocked, even yourself as the Tracker to a lesser extent. Hell, we still don't know if we have a JOAT or not. It is also not guaranteed that we WILL hit a red. At the end, they will have to pick.

On September 02 2010 08:15 Fishball wrote:
Fuck, there are more typos.

Citizen's logic is making me cringe.
Just to add a bit more content, lets assume we do have an original target "A".
If town can find a better target "B", then sure " I will favor switching the CV's target".

On September 02 2010 11:34 LSB wrote:
I got a proposal guys!
How about you let me live today, and me and Rasta duke it out at night! I'll show you that I'm the CV!

On September 02 2010 10:54 Pandain wrote:


Your confirmed citizen, but thanks to the medic who protected you. What do you think about lynching BB instead because BB might be a good role(such as roleblocker!)

I mean they're both mafia, so why not lynch the more possible gain?

On September 02 2010 12:54 SiNiquity wrote:
Eh, long day. Interesting that no one was roleblocked.. afraid of being tracked maybe?

Chaoser: <3 for confirming 4 townies. Sorry we had to sacrifice you to do it

As for the lynch, I don't see why we shouldn't lynch LSB. A Mafia lynch is a successful lynch is it not? And even though it doesn't reduce KP, it does reduce the Mafia win scenario (i.e. outnumber town). Is there really any disadvantage to lynching him now rather than later?

Also, something to keep in mind: Rasta isn't necessarily cleared. He also wasn't necessarily role-blocked - if he were mafia, he could simply aim at the Mafia's target and claim roleblocked, as the Mafia kill would cover it up.

Anyway, I'll check in the morning before I disappear off to work again [freaking hectic week].

On September 02 2010 12:36 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Citizen....Care to track divinek? I'll protect you again tonight.

On September 03 2010 03:12 flamewheel wrote:
Thank god for the "All" function. You guys post a lot ><

Citizen I guess I applaud you for taking the inititive, since if you knew you were town than you could assume Chaoser was most likely innocent. Therefore you knew LSB was mafia. Why would you track him? Afraid he was another role?
I know your innocent just curious.

On September 03 2010 05:14 Pandain wrote:


See, but I think announcing who you're going to track will help us anyway, because they will not use their roles. WE are going to lynch both of them anyway, as I at least suspect both of them heavily, and in addition they are part of the unconfirmed townies.
For example, last game they didn't roleblock anyone, probably because they were afraid of getting tracked. If darth is roleblocker, we kill him. If Brownbear is, he can't use his role. Either way, the roleblocker will either be forced to not use his power or he will be dead.

Do you see my point?

On September 03 2010 05:23 Pandain wrote:


Because he will be killed. And if brownbear is roleblocker you will have tracked him to Rastaban. and if rasta gets blocked then we know darth is the roleblocker.

On September 03 2010 06:24 BrownBear wrote:


Are you special or something? I never lied.

On September 03 2010 20:59 bumatlarge wrote:
Later on ofc, after he checks more people. We arent killing him now... I suggest check darth fishball, and then we kill BB

On September 02 2010 12:54 SiNiquity wrote:
Eh, long day. Interesting that no one was roleblocked.. afraid of being tracked maybe?

Chaoser: <3 for confirming 4 townies. Sorry we had to sacrifice you to do it

As for the lynch, I don't see why we shouldn't lynch LSB. A Mafia lynch is a successful lynch is it not? And even though it doesn't reduce KP, it does reduce the Mafia win scenario (i.e. outnumber town). Is there really any disadvantage to lynching him now rather than later?

Also, something to keep in mind: Rasta isn't necessarily cleared. He also wasn't necessarily role-blocked - if he were mafia, he could simply aim at the Mafia's target and claim roleblocked, as the Mafia kill would cover it up.

Anyway, I'll check in the morning before I disappear off to work again [freaking hectic week].

Unconfirmed:
Pandain(unless fishball succesfully checked me), Divinek, Brownbear(will be lynched today), Rastaban, Fishball.

On September 04 2010 11:44 SiNiquity wrote:
DTA was copycat huh (pretty sure there was only 1 mason this game, but with BM dying first CC would get his role)?

Hmm down to 9 with 2 Mafia left...

at this point, is it advantageous to keep the CV? Suppose, worst case scenario, we persistently hit town (I don't foresee this given the large number of confirmed players, but again worst case here):

With CV

1. • Lynch,
     
   • Mafia Kill, CV, Tracker, Bullet Bill
     
   • 6 - 2
     
   
   
2. • Lynch,
     
   • Mafia Kill, CV, Tracker, Bullet Bill
     
   • 3 - 2
     
   
   

Without CV

1. • Lynch CV
     
   • Mafia Kill, Tracker, Bullet Bill
     
   • 7 - 2
     
   
   
2. • Lynch,
     
   • Mafia Kill, Tracker, Bullet Bill
     
   • 5 - 2
     
   
   
3. • Lynch,
     
   • Mafia Kill, Tracker, Bullet Bill
     
   • 3 - 2
     
   
   

The tradeoff here is Mafia is guaranteed one more hit which will of course hit town (whereas CV has a chance to hit Mafia). However, it also gives one additional use of the Bullet Bill and Tracker, while also removing a potentially dangerous role should the CV turn out to be Mafia.

This is of course presuming Fishball is town (tracker seems to be pretty handicapped with the roles taking priority). The fact that JeeJee was killed, confirming Fishball's claim that he was not Mafia, sadly does nothing to confirm Fish himself. Although I'm admittedly surprised Mafia would go after JeeJee rather than someone on Chaoser's list. Hmm...

On September 05 2010 15:54 bumatlarge wrote:
Wah, why not track Divine who can no longer visit? Oh well.

Im thinking pandain and divine as the last two scum after skimming the thread again. Or Fishball and rasta, because RB might not exist? Too many scenarios...



Yeah that seems to good to mess up, I mean 1 mafia for extra KP is huge. The most logical kill would then be divine. If hes red, then we can probably label rasta as town, and town basically wins. But if div is town, then we are at the same stage we are now. Im betting citizen gets killed and fishball gets blocked, so stalling via killing rasta is kinda pointless if its only for blues to get more checks. Kill divine and if he doesnt pop red, have rasta kill BB.

##vote divinek

On September 06 2010 00:13 Pandain wrote:


Also, we don't outnumber them sadly. Its 5 unconfirmed to 4 confirmed, your counting rastaban as confirmed.

Argh... if only Citizen had tracked Brownbear we would've had this game in the bag(as we could've told whether he's roleblocker or not.)

WHY CITIZEN WHY!!!

On September 05 2010 23:38 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Rastaban, OpZ, Citizen, Bumatlarge, SiNiquity.

Pandain, BrownBear, Fishball, Divinek.

Wait...we outnumber...awesome. Nevermind. Games pretty in the bag even if we fuck up. 5 confirmed townies on top, 2 hidden townies on bot.

I'm down with lynching BrownBear, killing divinek tonight.

Only possible choices for mafia are pandain, brownbear, fishball, and divinek. And if Pandain is actually martyr...well, protect citizen Pandain, and you will be proven town. =D
Just assuming Rasta is town because he did POP DTA, and Roleblocking fishball....well...FoS Pandain.

Coulda RB'd the person POPPING your mafia brother, but instead RB Fishball?

=/
Anyway...I still wanna hear citizen...And Fishball out of town? -_____-

I actually liked the hit on JeeJee. The scum knew there was a medic/jack out there and they had it narrowed down to one of a few players.

On September 08 2010 12:03 Ace wrote:
The assumption about double lynches is wrong though. Even if the town has 2KP to 1 Mafia KP their hits are more informed. Mafia is guaranteed to not hit Scum if they feel like it.

Also double lynching is usually bad imo. Only worth it if there is going to be a definite Mafia death or there is a counter-claim that can be resolved efficiently by lynching both players.

Otherwise a double lynch is terrible. You're guaranteed to hit at least 1 town player and in most cases TWO. Add in the fact that most double lynches are based off of laziness and finger pointing instead of solid analysis and they are bad.

Incognito I'll reply to your post later ^_^