Penalty Mafia
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Pyrrhuloxia
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Pyrrhuloxia
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I'm curious | ||
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On August 08 2010 10:43 LSB wrote: Question: Ninja Votes? See end of TL Mafix XXVIII | ||
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Just ignore this if it isn't true. | ||
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? | ||
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##vote Ace until he at least finishes his thoughts on his plan his feather soft vigi claim rubs me singularly | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 08 2010 16:17 Ace wrote: Where did I soft Vigi claim. Explain. You say you know we have a vigi. There are no PMs allowed. No one else mentioned this before. I don't think a vigi would be necessary for balance considerations in a 10v3 1 KP game. Ipso facto... | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 08 2010 16:18 Ace wrote: never said that either. Why are you making things up? ![]() I said seems to, meaning that was how I interpreted it. What did you mean then? You quoted BM's unedited post but completely changed the words to something about him being confused. BM's claiming that he has been given your name as mafia as part of his role PM. You are denying that you are mafia, but you don't seem to immediately jump on BM as mafia. So you must be thinking he is mistaken? | ||
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On August 08 2010 16:22 Ace wrote: Me speculating and being almost sure that we have a Vigilante based on the fact that our town roles have penalties doesn't warrant a soft claim. You should know better than that. "I know for sure though that the town has to have a Vigilante. " That doesn't sound like "almost sure" it sounds like you "know for sure." | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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Let's get down to the real business, Ace. What is your reaction to Bill Murray's claim that he has been given your name as mafia? | ||
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On August 08 2010 16:48 Ace wrote: ? Where did he claim that? He hasn't. Even if he did why would I care and why would you? I know I'm not scum, and if you've ever read a game with Bill Murray in it you know he throws out at least 6 scum accusations per day. I'm just gonna spell this out real clear in case someone skims the thread. I asked BM if he wasn't allowed to talk except for voting and to switch his vote to Scamp if yes. BM changes his vote to scamp and changes his vote back to ace. I asked BM if he was given a list of the mafia as part of his role, and if so, to change his vote to scamp and then someone else on the list (if he was given someone other than Ace) and then back to ace. BM changes his vote to scamp and changes his vote back to ace. Just to give BM a chance to pull back if he was messing around and to force Ace to confront this bull by the horns: Bill Murray, if you are only suspicious of Ace you can change your vote to Divinek and then back to Ace to indicate this. If Hesmyrr indicated to you in a PM that Ace is mafia, you can change your vote to LSB and back to Ace to indicate this. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 08 2010 17:30 Ace wrote: Are you dunce? Where has Bill Murray said I'm scum. Don't just assume because you asked him to do that he followed it because he knows what he's doing. If you are so sure that Bill Murray in fact did what you said because he is sure I'm scum you wouldn't even be discussing this with me - you'd be trying to rally the town to vote me off because I'd be confirmed scum. He's bullshitting around and for some reason you're trying awfully hard to make his penalty which is allegedly a post restriction a finger pointing to me being scum. You've already asked him once, no need to ask him to do it again involving Divinek. He did what you asked him to do once already, so either you believe him that I'm definitely scum and you stop talking to me and get the town to vote me off, or you think he is bullshitting in which case you've got no reason to even ask him to do it again. What's going on over there, you sure aren't acting logical right now. I had to ask again because you were misinterpreting. Now why don't you think Bill Murray is scum if he indeed is claiming that part of his role is that he knows you are scum? " Don't just assume because you asked him to do that he followed it because he knows what he's doing. " So Bill Murray is smart enough to read my instructions and follow them but too retarded to understand what they mean? | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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You are mafia for Bill Murray is mafia. OR Bill Murray is town and fucking around in which case I'm sure by the end of the day he will show up and explain how it was part of some elaborate plot. | ||
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On August 09 2010 00:11 citi.zen wrote: Bill, do just know Ace, or all the reds? Change vote to them sequentially if you know them, otherwise vote me then go back to w/e. I already asked this and he indicated he only knows Ace. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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I am more suspicious of Ace than BM at this point because Ace seems to be distracting town from BM rather than taking him head on. If BM is town-aligned and making these claims to troll or to get himself killed because he doesn't want to play anymore than I really don't know why he's playing and I don't really want him around the TL Mafia forum. | ||
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On August 08 2010 23:04 bumatlarge wrote: Oh my god... BM if you are some sort of day rolechecker/DT or something else that lets you find out Ace's role, Vote me! and then go back to ace If not, vote divine and bouncearoo. lol bouncearoo. I like that word. I hope it is some secret trigger word Hesmyrr attached to your role. | ||
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On August 09 2010 05:19 Jayme wrote: IF BM refuses to talk than it'll be hard to take him head on in the first place. What Ace is doing is hardly distracting. I do hate it when people hold back plans for unseen thresholds. Lets hope it gets "reached" so we have something to work with. Well I guess Ace's position is that BM is fooling around. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 09 2010 06:54 bumatlarge wrote: I will if more then 5 people ask me too. If it wasnt for the Ace/BM thing, I would for sure. You already told the mafia to force you to do it so... You should have just stayed low if you were worrieda bout the mafia forcing you to use your action. That said, I doubt there's a mafia role to force someone to use their action. A role that limits someone's speaking seems pretty guaranteed, though. I think one of the examples Hesmyrr gave was a shy townie that had some posting restrictions. That would be a really lame/boring role to have so I could see Hesmyrr balancing that by giving some way for the silent person to know red roles - I could see Hesmyrr assuming that we wouldn't immediately jump to the hypothesis I had on BM's role. It could be that BM is following an example claim given to the mafia by Hesmyrr, or he just thought he would fake being unable to speak to lay low as red, and BM just used my question to him as an excuse to try to kill Ace. If we were to kill Ace and he flips non-red, though, we'd go after BM and I don't think that's a good trade for mafia. | ||
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Why didn't you post that earlier, Ace? ##abstain | ||
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He better start talking, argh. | ||
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On August 09 2010 07:23 zeks wrote: Can someone quote where it says theres no PM restriction penalty? I believe you Ace but if you could just show it to everyone else it'd be better. I do remember seeing that posted just can't find where it was #Vote Bill Murray ctrl-f, it's in the very first post of the thread. | ||
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I don't agree - I have no idea what to expect in other penalties and I don't see how claiming them will make certain people stand out. It might help us plan some strategies but it might help the mafia, too. What if someone's penalty is that they can't do anything till night 4? Then the mafia knows to avoid that person until night 3 and kill them then. What if the penalties for townies look a lot different from the penalties for blues? That could bite us in the ass. | ||
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On August 09 2010 08:32 LSB wrote: As for lynching Pyrr. I would advise AGAINST lynching Pyrr now. The logic works like this Premise 1) If Bill Murry is Mafia, Pyrr is mafia Premise 2) Bill Murry is Mafia Therefore Pyrr is mafia. However, we should first confirm premise #2. We do that by lynching BM. We're going to lynch BM anyways, so why not now? Lynching Pyrr first could lead to a dead townie. And Pyrr being green does not tell us anything about BM Makes sense to me. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 09 2010 09:16 Scamp wrote: LSB your last few posts have been much better and as a result I'm less suspicious of you now. Keep playing like that. I'm totally down with the Bill Murray bandwagon right now as other than the inactive (who may have a legitimate excuse) he looks like the best play. The only thing that I'm concerned about it is that there seems to be no consideration as to what to do if BM flips green or blue. It doesn't clear Pyrr and puts more pressure on Ace, who at this point is looking like our strongest player. It doesn't really put more pressure on Ace because it just means BM was fucking around. Or that Hesmyrr forgot some of his rules or we are misinterpreting them (doubt it). It doesn't clear me but I think it undermines the reasons people are currently voting for me, which based on me working in concert with BM. | ||
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On August 09 2010 09:45 Ace wrote: what do you want the town to do instead? Well I'm not certain that it's a bad idea at this point. But if it is, we can always analyze behavior and have blues act silently and, you know, play the game. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 09 2010 09:39 zeks wrote: i'm up for the penalty posting basically when i'm lynched, a random person is picked out of the people who voted for me, and that person gets permanent +1 vote to all future lynch votes no matter what yeah i'm not very useful fantastic, now the mafia can vote for you and say "well I wanted to lower the odds that the mafia get ahold of an extra vote. I'm already not liking this penalty claim thing. Certain people have penalties that suggest we should kill them, certain people have penalties that suggest we don't kill them, we can't get closer to mafia, I think, because all we have is wifom "oh mafia wouldn't claim that because it makes lynching them look good", "mafia wouldn't claim that role because its too suspicious its look like they are just trying to seem to valuable to be lynched," etc. I don't get where we go with this other than being distracted from behavior analysis. Granted, we get a lot of material to look at but I think already the mafia can pick a few guaranteed greens to avoid while we don't get much help since anyone might be mafia from our point of view, whether they are claiming something that looks green or blue. | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:01 Ace wrote: Where's the mistake? Hessmyrr's post doesn't say that penalties are tied to roles. I also know that from my role PM my penalty is NOT tied to my role. Likewise if you looked at bumatlarge's penalty claim his tree stump ability is also NOT tied to his penalty of upping scum population.You're making bad assumptions. His tree stump ability, if used, ups the scum population. How could those two be any more linked, when there is a direct causal link between them? | ||
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##vote Ace Nice job for outing like four blues already. Fuck you BM for screwing around. Don't sign up for anything again if you are gonna play like this (assuming you're not red). | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:12 citi.zen wrote: Are you claiming there are no vanilla townies? Well assume the stump guy is not red - he's basically a green townie because his power is so shitty you'd never use it. I think that's how the townies are in this game. Now maybe Ace is the same way since he said his power is too odd to use... so maybe Ace is green and not red. Blah. Or maybe the mafia are trying to hide by claiming powers that they will never and can never be asked to use in order to prove anything. | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:17 Ace wrote: [/b][/b]eh? It's still a penalty even if it's only 1 use. That doesn't change the fact. I also can't violate my penalty either. I can't violate my penalty... | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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unvote ##vote Bill Murray | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 09 2010 10:20 Ace wrote: Tree stump is potentially one of the most broken roles in Mafia. There's a reason that his penalty is so ridiculous. In this setup though Tree Stump isn't really that great (based on what we know so far). I'm still of the idea one of the town players has an insanely broken killing role. Also Pyrr is scum, leave Bill Murray for a DT to investigate. What would an insanely broken killing role be like? | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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On August 09 2010 10:41 Ace wrote: wrong. You don't know it's a medic. You've only seen the penalty. How does telling the town you can act on certain nights imply you're a medic? Explain, especially since any sane person's first thought would be Vigilante. Did you read what LSB said? I think you did. Why would we be okay with giving away our vigilante? Vigi or medic, either way mafia knows it is someone to hit because they have a night action. | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:49 Ace wrote: and how will they find said medic? They can't because they don't know who the medic is. They just know penalties. Once again penalties do not imply roles. If it does then tell me my role, and tell zeks his role if you believe this. And Pyrr is mafia. Stop voting for Bill Murray and deal with him tomorrow. Not all penalties imply roles. ##vote Ace | ||
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I'm scummy because I'm trying (and failing miserably) to keep the mafia from picking out blues. Ace is clearly innocent because his plan is getting us no closer to identifying any scum and never will. | ||
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There's no response Ace can make because it is true. | ||
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On August 09 2010 11:01 Ace wrote: Exactly. So if you know this to be true, why would you be against penalty claiming. You just admitted we can't figure out who's role is what based on penalties ![]() Hi scum :D Some of them imply blue. That's all mafia needs. Sure some blues might have penalties that don't hint that they are blue. How many people out there are green and have penalties that hint blue? So far only Divinek, who may be mafia. In any case hadn't heard otherwise and I'm sure the mafia like their odds based on how this conversation has played out (ie right into mafia hands) which is why I should have realized not to have the conversation in the first place but congrats for catching me playing like crap. | ||
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On August 09 2010 11:30 citi.zen wrote: If he is not red, does not have additional information and has no restriction on speaking (as the OP says), he went for personal vendetta at the risk of screwing he town over. Usually there is a "play to win" rule. I'm starting to think that if there was a meticulously enforced play to win rule, Bill Murray would have been on a permanent ban list long ago. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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I think I might copy ace's playbook here depending on how these games turn out ![]() | ||
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you don't get to fuck the town over all day, show up and claim its my fault "I've been a treestump. I hated using it, but when you're near a lynch, it is a good ability. Wouldn't you rather be able to continue talking than have to sit on the sidelines watching? you can still do behavioral analysis and catch scum as a treestump." He should not use that role. Is he even allowed to talk after using that? I'm not sure he is. "See how he "isn't worried about me", because he is wanting this wagon to go on Ace. I really wouldn't be surprised if Pyrrhuloxia was the Godfather." I wasn't as worried about you because I thought you might be blue BECAUSE YOU WERE FUCKING LYING, ASSHOLE. "You are scum trying to go against a plan that puts pressure on you." You're damn right it puts pressure on me. Pressure to reveal my role WHICH SHOULD NOT BE FORCED ON ANYONE at this point. "So you're implying that he caught you on your scum slip? I wouldn't say you've been playing like crap if you're red, you have a wagon going on me, and you almost had a townie with a vendetta lynch a town aligned power role, which would have been some absolute awesomeness for you. The only crappy part about your play is that you were too willing to bandwagon and have little slipups about the amount of information you have." Little slipups about the information I had- we've been having that all over town thanks to Ace's plan here. I notice you don't specify any of these. | ||
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I can perform a certain action but it doesn't go through until two mornings later. | ||
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That's because I figured the only way for him to use his ability to benefit town was through what I was trying to do. | ||
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I don't need good reasoning, I'm about to get killed when someone who has lied to town all day is getting off scott free and the guy he was trying to kill doesn't give a shit. | ||
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I asked him whether he had a full list or just you. If it was just you, then we would have that info and could use it immediately. I guess he might have had some hidden ability to get more mafia later but even then it's already a good trade. If he has the whole list and gives it to us, kaching we win, Hesmyrr is a bad game designer. Maybe I should have respected him more but I thought one role was reasonable. In fact, if you knew he was lying isn't that a very good cause to be worried? " "Wait a sec - how did you know he was lying Pyrr?" I dunno, maybe because he said he couldn't talk to town... AND THEN STARTED TALKING TO TOWN? I obviously didn't think he was lying when I thought he was blue. How would I know he was lying if I was mafia unless he was on my team? Because you don't seem to think he is. Maybe he's on your team? | ||
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On August 09 2010 15:22 Jayme wrote: This is the only point with you I'm willing to agree with. It's pretty much a cardinal rule that a townie is not to lie...ever. The thing is you basically pushed said blue rule on BM and he went with it. My penalty is that I look extremely guilty. I didn't push it on him. I had an idea and Bill Murray lied to troll me and the rest of town. | ||
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On August 10 2010 04:17 Korynne wrote: Pyrr, do you have to be alive for your action to be carried out 2 mornings later? Because if not then we should just keep Pyrr around, let Pyrr claim what he did after it's going to go through, and then see if it happens (unless mafia roleblocks him, in which case he should know and then tell us whatever he wants accordingly). Doesn't clear him, but like, it's something more tangible than the other claims we've gotten. I have to survive Night 2. :-/ | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
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When I am dead, go after: Ace: Mafia Bill Murray: Mafia / Ass Sorry to town for playing like shit this game. GJ Ace for defenestrating the town with a scummy plan that couldn't be argued against effectively without the blues giving themselves away. The greens will see it as harmless and jump in, isolating, identifying and FoSing the blues who will be hurt by it. Very clever. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:33 Bill Murray wrote: at this point we need to really consolidate votes this isnt like a typical mafiascum game in terms of day 1 lasting 3 weeks... so we need to consolidate votes FAST and speed up the pace so we can pressure people into slipping up Yes, no time to think things through; town must be as mindless as possible. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:44 Ace wrote: Yea I think that's the one. But the most damning thing about all of this is that not only have they argued with me, but not a single one of them has come up with a new idea or direction to go on. All this complaining about blue roles dying and no positive input on doing something to help. Do these sound like pro town moves to you? You of all people should know that no blue confirmation plan is necessary for town to win. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:50 Ace wrote: And once again you're putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said I'm making a blue confirmation plan. Hell, show me ANYWHERE where I've said I'm valuing blue roles over green? I'm not talking to you anymore, you haven't been responding to me honestly or straight forwardly all game long; everything I post, you answer to something I haven't said. | ||
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My checking takes longer than usual because I am Cautious Detective. If I submit a check night one, I get the result at the end of night 2 / start of day 3. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:49 Ace wrote: I lol'd. Let me get this straight... You are a detective right? But you must wait TWO days to act? L O L So you can't use your powers at all on Night 1, but somehow using it on Night 2 makes it all better? But you admit you played like shit this game, as if that's a reason to take sympathy on you. Ignoring your play though this is what your entire role looks like: You are a detective. Your penalty is that you can't act until Night 2. Yea, ok. Whatever. If this is true then we all might as well stop playing this game because all our roles would be so bad I don't think Hessmyrr would have even created the game. Town would have no chance due to the possibility of starting off with a good shot of 2 mislynches (2 Day 1's) and the chance of 2 power roles getting clocked before we get it straight. You're bullshitting. You're right, it does suck. That's why I thought maybe we had a mute role that knew a mafia day 1. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:54 Ace wrote: That's the thing, the mafia don't have any penalties. @Pyrr: You know if you really wanted to save yourself you'd be trying to convince the rest of the town to change their vote. Not me. But you don't even seem like you care about living so if you die to a lynch it's your own fault. Toodles ^_^ If I don't get lynched, you just kill me tonight before I can use my role. If I die, people see why your plan was scummy and apparently that's the wake up call this town needs because they've been ignoring logic from LSB and I. | ||
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On August 10 2010 08:02 citi.zen wrote: Cute. I replied, and you know it. Those examples were easy to read. Isn't that so annoying how he does that? He is so good at this slippery, headache inducing stuff. | ||
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On August 10 2010 08:04 Ace wrote: If you think that's the case I'll give you a simple task: come up with an idea of your own instead of complaining. You don't have to listen to me, you can just do something yourself. See, like here: If you say his plan is bad he says "you don't have a plan." It's like liberals when they attack conservatives for "not having a plan" as if only the government can have a plan, when it's not a true assumption. You don't need a claiming plan in mafia; TL needs more role-less games, I think, so people can figure out how to play. We don't need an organization if individuals up they game. | ||
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At least from my perspective, you can see how shitty your plan was for my particular role. The only way I can use my power is if I keep a low profile until day 3. Also, my penalty is hard to talk about without making me look blue, in comparison to yours and others. Like I said before dying, your plan got greens to jump on board fast and it made the reluctant people (both DTs) stick out like sore thumbs. It gave mafia a bunch of blue sniping info on day 1, when our blues were penalized to begin with. Your plan relied on the mod putting a super awesome vigi role in the game when the name of the game is "penalty mafia". I don't think you have grounds to say I was stupid to balk at your plan when it prima facie helped mafia a lot and only helped town if there was a more powerful than normal vigi in a game where the theme is roles being less powerful than usual. The only other benefit to your plan ever articulated was "I just wanted everyone to claim penalties so you could HOLD everyone to their penalties and kill off the liars asap." This is stupid because the mod made it clear that mafia was given fake penalties and the mafia can easily choose a penalty they can stick to without any repercussions (exhibit A: Scamp). Meanwhile, knowing innocent penalties gives tons of blue sniping hints to mafia, and it can also help them plan out hits based on when people can act since the mafia could tell when certain people are or aren't dangerous to them. | ||
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I wanted to lynch Ace because I found his plan to be very pro-mafia and not very pro-town. I still believe that to be the case. He believes the inverse and now thinks I suck. I do suck at playing when I'm not red. I still think Ace is good but I also still think his plan made town worse off. | ||
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