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Penalty Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 04 2010 04:38 GMT
#56
penalty examples?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 05 2010 04:56 GMT
#64
/in
I'm curious
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 07 2010 23:26 GMT
#73
So do we get to see the number of mafia in this game?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 07 2010 23:40 GMT
#75
Soo I guess we don't know what roles are out there. Super mysterious. Anyone have any ideas for how to proceed? Anyone play in a game like this before?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 02:22 GMT
#99
On August 08 2010 10:43 LSB wrote:
Question: Ninja Votes?

See end of TL Mafix XXVIII
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 03:58 GMT
#104
Maybe his limitation is that all he can do is vote.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 04:02 GMT
#106
Hey, Bill Murray. Does your penalty limit your speaking? If yes, change your vote to Scamp.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 06:30 GMT
#112
Hahaha. Muy interesante.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 06:37 GMT
#115
Hey Bill Murray. I think your role might be that you get a list of the mafia, or at least a partial list of the mafia, but you aren't allowed to talk. You are only allowed to make votes. If this is true, change your vote to scamp again and then to a mafia member that is not ace (if you have more than him) and then back to ace. Or just from scamp to ace if you only know Ace.
Just ignore this if it isn't true.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 07:10 GMT
#120
On August 08 2010 16:06 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 16:03 Bill Murray wrote:
Oh god help me I'm so confused qq :'(


It's all starting to make sense now.

?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 07:12 GMT
#121
Hmm so I guess we have a list of Ace and BM with a mafia in it? Although Ace seems to be hinting that he will argue BM is a confused/insane DT sort of role.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 07:15 GMT
#122
I'm gonna

##vote Ace

until he at least finishes his thoughts on his plan
his feather soft vigi claim rubs me singularly
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 07:19 GMT
#126
On August 08 2010 16:17 Ace wrote:
Where did I soft Vigi claim. Explain.

You say you know we have a vigi. There are no PMs allowed. No one else mentioned this before. I don't think a vigi would be necessary for balance considerations in a 10v3 1 KP game. Ipso facto...
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 07:23 GMT
#128
On August 08 2010 16:18 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 16:12 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Hmm so I guess we have a list of Ace and BM with a mafia in it? Although Ace seems to be hinting that he will argue BM is a confused/insane DT sort of role.


never said that either. Why are you making things up?

I said seems to, meaning that was how I interpreted it. What did you mean then? You quoted BM's unedited post but completely changed the words to something about him being confused. BM's claiming that he has been given your name as mafia as part of his role PM. You are denying that you are mafia, but you don't seem to immediately jump on BM as mafia. So you must be thinking he is mistaken?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 07:25 GMT
#129
On August 08 2010 16:22 Ace wrote:
Me speculating and being almost sure that we have a Vigilante based on the fact that our town roles have penalties doesn't warrant a soft claim.

You should know better than that.

"I know for sure though that the town has to have a Vigilante. "

That doesn't sound like "almost sure" it sounds like you "know for sure."
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 07:28 GMT
#130
But that's not really important- maybe you don't speak as cautiously as me.

Let's get down to the real business, Ace. What is your reaction to Bill Murray's claim that he has been given your name as mafia?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 08:02 GMT
#133
On August 08 2010 16:48 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 16:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
But that's not really important- maybe you don't speak as cautiously as me.

Let's get down to the real business, Ace. What is your reaction to Bill Murray's claim that he has been given your name as mafia?


?

Where did he claim that? He hasn't. Even if he did why would I care and why would you? I know I'm not scum, and if you've ever read a game with Bill Murray in it you know he throws out at least 6 scum accusations per day.

I'm just gonna spell this out real clear in case someone skims the thread.

I asked BM if he wasn't allowed to talk except for voting and to switch his vote to Scamp if yes.

BM changes his vote to scamp and changes his vote back to ace.

I asked BM if he was given a list of the mafia as part of his role, and if so, to change his vote to scamp and then someone else on the list (if he was given someone other than Ace) and then back to ace.

BM changes his vote to scamp and changes his vote back to ace.


Just to give BM a chance to pull back if he was messing around and to force Ace to confront this bull by the horns:

Bill Murray, if you are only suspicious of Ace you can change your vote to Divinek and then back to Ace to indicate this.

If Hesmyrr indicated to you in a PM that Ace is mafia, you can change your vote to LSB and back to Ace to indicate this.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 08:40 GMT
#135
On August 08 2010 17:30 Ace wrote:
Are you dunce?

Where has Bill Murray said I'm scum. Don't just assume because you asked him to do that he followed it because he knows what he's doing. If you are so sure that Bill Murray in fact did what you said because he is sure I'm scum you wouldn't even be discussing this with me - you'd be trying to rally the town to vote me off because I'd be confirmed scum.

He's bullshitting around and for some reason you're trying awfully hard to make his penalty which is allegedly a post restriction a finger pointing to me being scum. You've already asked him once, no need to ask him to do it again involving Divinek. He did what you asked him to do once already, so either you believe him that I'm definitely scum and you stop talking to me and get the town to vote me off, or you think he is bullshitting in which case you've got no reason to even ask him to do it again.

What's going on over there, you sure aren't acting logical right now.

I had to ask again because you were misinterpreting.

Now why don't you think Bill Murray is scum if he indeed is claiming that part of his role is that he knows you are scum?

" Don't just assume because you asked him to do that he followed it because he knows what he's doing. "
So Bill Murray is smart enough to read my instructions and follow them but too retarded to understand what they mean?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 08:43 GMT
#136
Bottom line:

You are mafia for Bill Murray is mafia.

OR Bill Murray is town and fucking around in which case I'm sure by the end of the day he will show up and explain how it was part of some elaborate plot.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 08:58 GMT
#138
Is he really this anti-town as town? Well if Bill Murray is a Mute Oracle or something like that, it's too important to make this me vs. ace so I'll just wait and see what the rest of town thinks. There are way too many people who haven't checked in yet.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 19:55 GMT
#152
On August 09 2010 00:11 citi.zen wrote:
Bill, do just know Ace, or all the reds? Change vote to them sequentially if you know them, otherwise vote me then go back to w/e.

I already asked this and he indicated he only knows Ace.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 20:00 GMT
#153
Yeah, like I said, my vote is not set in stone. I want to hear the rest of Ace's plan; he said he was waiting for town to become more active and it looks like things are finally warming up a bit.

I am more suspicious of Ace than BM at this point because Ace seems to be distracting town from BM rather than taking him head on. If BM is town-aligned and making these claims to troll or to get himself killed because he doesn't want to play anymore than I really don't know why he's playing and I don't really want him around the TL Mafia forum.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 20:01 GMT
#154
On August 08 2010 23:04 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh my god... BM if you are some sort of day rolechecker/DT or something else that lets you find out Ace's role, Vote me! and then go back to ace

If not, vote divine and bouncearoo.

lol bouncearoo. I like that word. I hope it is some secret trigger word Hesmyrr attached to your role.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 21:04 GMT
#157
On August 09 2010 05:19 Jayme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 05:00 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Yeah, like I said, my vote is not set in stone. I want to hear the rest of Ace's plan; he said he was waiting for town to become more active and it looks like things are finally warming up a bit.

I am more suspicious of Ace than BM at this point because Ace seems to be distracting town from BM rather than taking him head on. If BM is town-aligned and making these claims to troll or to get himself killed because he doesn't want to play anymore than I really don't know why he's playing and I don't really want him around the TL Mafia forum.


IF BM refuses to talk than it'll be hard to take him head on in the first place.

What Ace is doing is hardly distracting. I do hate it when people hold back plans for unseen thresholds. Lets hope it gets "reached" so we have something to work with.

Well I guess Ace's position is that BM is fooling around.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 22:09 GMT
#166
On August 09 2010 06:54 bumatlarge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 06:42 chaoser wrote:
then say it out loud -_-

I will if more then 5 people ask me too. If it wasnt for the Ace/BM thing, I would for sure.

You already told the mafia to force you to do it so...
You should have just stayed low if you were worrieda bout the mafia forcing you to use your action. That said, I doubt there's a mafia role to force someone to use their action.

A role that limits someone's speaking seems pretty guaranteed, though. I think one of the examples Hesmyrr gave was a shy townie that had some posting restrictions. That would be a really lame/boring role to have so I could see Hesmyrr balancing that by giving some way for the silent person to know red roles - I could see Hesmyrr assuming that we wouldn't immediately jump to the hypothesis I had on BM's role.

It could be that BM is following an example claim given to the mafia by Hesmyrr, or he just thought he would fake being unable to speak to lay low as red, and BM just used my question to him as an excuse to try to kill Ace. If we were to kill Ace and he flips non-red, though, we'd go after BM and I don't think that's a good trade for mafia.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 22:12 GMT
#167
Lol "No post restriction bs though."
Why didn't you post that earlier, Ace?
##abstain
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 22:24 GMT
#172
##vote Bill Murray

He better start talking, argh.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 22:25 GMT
#174
On August 09 2010 07:23 zeks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 04 2010 17:33 Bill Murray wrote:
even if this is for testing purposes, i'm going to get ace lynched


Can someone quote where it says theres no PM restriction penalty? I believe you Ace but if you could just show it to everyone else it'd be better. I do remember seeing that posted just can't find where it was

#Vote Bill Murray

ctrl-f, it's in the very first post of the thread.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 22:29 GMT
#176
Posting penalties will give clues to the reds about roles. I'm not sure how we can use them against the reds; I'm sure they can give plausible ones since the rules say so.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 22:37 GMT
#178
"If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them."

I don't agree - I have no idea what to expect in other penalties and I don't see how claiming them will make certain people stand out. It might help us plan some strategies but it might help the mafia, too. What if someone's penalty is that they can't do anything till night 4? Then the mafia knows to avoid that person until night 3 and kill them then. What if the penalties for townies look a lot different from the penalties for blues? That could bite us in the ass.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 22:38 GMT
#179
Maybe it could help town. Maybe not. But I think there is no chance it doesn't help the mafia some. And I think it would only be a small chance that it helps town more than it helps mafia.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 08 2010 23:34 GMT
#191
On August 09 2010 08:32 LSB wrote:
As for lynching Pyrr. I would advise AGAINST lynching Pyrr now. The logic works like this
Premise 1) If Bill Murry is Mafia, Pyrr is mafia
Premise 2) Bill Murry is Mafia
Therefore Pyrr is mafia.

However, we should first confirm premise #2. We do that by lynching BM. We're going to lynch BM anyways, so why not now? Lynching Pyrr first could lead to a dead townie. And Pyrr being green does not tell us anything about BM

Makes sense to me.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 00:21 GMT
#201
On August 09 2010 09:16 Scamp wrote:
LSB your last few posts have been much better and as a result I'm less suspicious of you now. Keep playing like that.

I'm totally down with the Bill Murray bandwagon right now as other than the inactive (who may have a legitimate excuse) he looks like the best play. The only thing that I'm concerned about it is that there seems to be no consideration as to what to do if BM flips green or blue. It doesn't clear Pyrr and puts more pressure on Ace, who at this point is looking like our strongest player.

It doesn't really put more pressure on Ace because it just means BM was fucking around. Or that Hesmyrr forgot some of his rules or we are misinterpreting them (doubt it). It doesn't clear me but I think it undermines the reasons people are currently voting for me, which based on me working in concert with BM.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 00:55 GMT
#215
On August 09 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:
what do you want the town to do instead?

Well I'm not certain that it's a bad idea at this point. But if it is, we can always analyze behavior and have blues act silently and, you know, play the game.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:01 GMT
#221
On August 09 2010 09:39 zeks wrote:
i'm up for the penalty posting

basically when i'm lynched, a random person is picked out of the people who voted for me, and that person gets permanent +1 vote to all future lynch votes no matter what

yeah i'm not very useful

fantastic, now the mafia can vote for you and say "well I wanted to lower the odds that the mafia get ahold of an extra vote.
I'm already not liking this penalty claim thing. Certain people have penalties that suggest we should kill them, certain people have penalties that suggest we don't kill them, we can't get closer to mafia, I think, because all we have is wifom "oh mafia wouldn't claim that because it makes lynching them look good", "mafia wouldn't claim that role because its too suspicious its look like they are just trying to seem to valuable to be lynched," etc. I don't get where we go with this other than being distracted from behavior analysis. Granted, we get a lot of material to look at but I think already the mafia can pick a few guaranteed greens to avoid while we don't get much help since anyone might be mafia from our point of view, whether they are claiming something that looks green or blue.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:02 GMT
#222
On August 09 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 09:58 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:
Everyone should penalty post. Blue/Green it doesn't matter because all of us have roles. Penalties are NOT tied to roles. If you think Mafia is going to just start sniping everyone based off of penalties then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Pyrr - what do you want the town to do instead?


Looks like your making the same mistake that BM did

On July 22 2010 23:22 Hesmyrr wrote:
This setup also has another twist in it; all Townies (not mafia) will have specific penalties that either diminish strength of one's ability or simply anti-town. No post restriction bs though.


I want the town to lynch BM, and work from there.



Where's the mistake? Hessmyrr's post doesn't say that penalties are tied to roles. I also know that from my role PM my penalty is NOT tied to my role. Likewise if you looked at bumatlarge's penalty claim his tree stump ability is also NOT tied to his penalty of upping scum population.You're making bad assumptions.

His tree stump ability, if used, ups the scum population. How could those two be any more linked, when there is a direct causal link between them?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:07 GMT
#228
##unvote
##vote Ace

Nice job for outing like four blues already.
Fuck you BM for screwing around. Don't sign up for anything again if you are gonna play like this (assuming you're not red).
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:18 GMT
#238
On August 09 2010 10:12 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:12 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:04 citi.zen wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:03 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:00 citi.zen wrote:
On August 09 2010 07:48 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 07:37 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
"If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them."

I don't agree - I have no idea what to expect in other penalties and I don't see how claiming them will make certain people stand out. It might help us plan some strategies but it might help the mafia, too. What if someone's penalty is that they can't do anything till night 4? Then the mafia knows to avoid that person until night 3 and kill them then. What if the penalties for townies look a lot different from the penalties for blues? That could bite us in the ass.


If someone's penalty is they can't do anything until night 4 thats great. Because then we can remove them from any actions that happen at night, and if they still live on Night 4 we ask them to prove their action. Obviously if you can't act until Night 4 which would be ridiculous in any mafia game you've gotta have something damn near game breaking. So if the scum want to let that person until night 3 that's cool with me because before that said person better be going all out doing some intelligent scum hunting. But even all of this is moot because I did say don't make it too obvious what your role could be. On death once your role is revealed we can piece everything together. It doesn't even matter if Vanilla penalties look different than blue penalties - we just need a list of penalties period to even move forward.

So what if it helps the mafia? Would you rather the town not have any direction on where to go and just stumble around mindlessly? It's like complaining that Terran's are making infantry knowing that Zerg has lurkers. Execution of the plan is just as important as the plan itself. If you don't agree come up with a better idea because I'm all ears.

@divinek: now you're starting to get it ^_^

We KNOW for a fact that townies have restrictions and scum don't. They only have fake claims the host gave them. So if we are aware of our own penalties and KNOW that we have to behave a certain way then we can't do things that go against our PM where as scum can because theirs are fake. They can't fake their actions because once we see what most people's penalties look like and people start dying the picture becomes very clear.

Why are we so sure penalties are not linked to roles?

From what I've seen, and knowing my penalty, people with a blue role have penalties pertaining to that role (ex: can't use power Y unless X happens). Greens can't have that type of penalty. Telling everyone "I can't use my power unless X" means you are blue = pleasant sniping reds.

So I'd advise you to reconsider, unless you think some sort of mass role-claim is a good play. In some set-ups that is the case, in this one I personally haven't come to that conclusion.

I'll admit that, as usual, I don't pay close attention on weekends, am I missing something?


no need for role claims yet, just penalties. Like I said I gave you all my penalty and if you all think it's that simple then tell me what my role is ^_^

Look at bumatlarge's penalty claim: no one would know he was a tree stump (role) based on the fact that acting increases mafia population by 1 (penalty). The idea that penalties implies roles is false based on bumatlarge's post and the fact that my penalty also does not imply my role.

That's just it: he has to use his "ability" = he has an "ability". So he's some sort of blue that just got outed.


Being BLUE doesn't matter. You are looking at it wrong. Everyone has a role. EVERYONE. Ignore anything about blue roles for now. We only care about PENALTIES. If bumatlarge didn't tell you he was a tree stump you would never know. zeks just told us his penalty, do you know his role? I told you my penalty, do you know my role? See where I'm going now.

also *yawn* at Pyrr. I didn't out any blues but nice job at trying to spread some panic. I hope the Vigilante or whatever killing role we have shoots you asap.

Are you claiming there are no vanilla townies?

Well assume the stump guy is not red - he's basically a green townie because his power is so shitty you'd never use it. I think that's how the townies are in this game. Now maybe Ace is the same way since he said his power is too odd to use... so maybe Ace is green and not red. Blah. Or maybe the mafia are trying to hide by claiming powers that they will never and can never be asked to use in order to prove anything.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:20 GMT
#241
On August 09 2010 10:17 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:16 Divinek wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:09 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 09:39 zeks wrote:
i'm up for the penalty posting

basically when i'm lynched, a random person is picked out of the people who voted for me, and that person gets permanent +1 vote to all future lynch votes no matter what

yeah i'm not very useful


oh dear :/. A random person or random townie?. Check the wording very carefully. If it's a random person that's pretty terrible. If it's a random townie that sucks also but we can have possibly have a confirmed townie.

Penalties:

Ace : Must telegraph moves to the town before acting
bumatlarge: If acting mafia population goes up by 1, town population goes down by 1
zeks: If lynched, random person(?) on the wagon gets permanent +1 voting power

@bumatlarge: Does the PM tell you how the population works? Like do mafia basically get a townie recruited into their ranks or is it some other way it works?


um ace i think only yours out of that list is a penalty

because the op says if you violate your penalty 3 timse you get mod killed

and the latter 2 are one use abilities and have no way of being violated



eh? It's still a penalty even if it's only 1 use. That doesn't change the fact. I also can't violate my penalty either.
[/b][/b]
I can't violate my penalty...
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:22 GMT
#245
Meh LSB is right let's start with BM and go from there.

unvote
##vote Bill Murray
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:23 GMT
#246
On August 09 2010 10:20 Ace wrote:
Tree stump is potentially one of the most broken roles in Mafia. There's a reason that his penalty is so ridiculous. In this setup though Tree Stump isn't really that great (based on what we know so far).

I'm still of the idea one of the town players has an insanely broken killing role. Also Pyrr is scum, leave Bill Murray for a DT to investigate.

What would an insanely broken killing role be like?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:44 GMT
#267
On August 09 2010 10:41 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:39 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:31 Ace wrote:
And if that's the penalty then the medic simply says my penalty is that I can only act on certain days. That doesn't tell you or anyone else that the role is medic. Did you READ when I first proposed this plan? We'll get your role later on in the game or upon death and then match it up with everything else we know. I know what I'm talking about and my logic is 100% on point, get off of wikipedia and use your head.

What that tells the mafia is that the medic has an ability that can be used at night.
The mafia won't know if the medic is a DT, or a Bus Driver, or a Vig, or a Medic. But all they will know is that they should kill the medic before night 2.

It sounds like your part of the mafia, trying to get a nice hit list.


wrong. You don't know it's a medic. You've only seen the penalty. How does telling the town you can act on certain nights imply you're a medic? Explain, especially since any sane person's first thought would be Vigilante.

Did you read what LSB said? I think you did. Why would we be okay with giving away our vigilante? Vigi or medic, either way mafia knows it is someone to hit because they have a night action.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:52 GMT
#276
On August 09 2010 10:49 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:44 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:41 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:39 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:31 Ace wrote:
And if that's the penalty then the medic simply says my penalty is that I can only act on certain days. That doesn't tell you or anyone else that the role is medic. Did you READ when I first proposed this plan? We'll get your role later on in the game or upon death and then match it up with everything else we know. I know what I'm talking about and my logic is 100% on point, get off of wikipedia and use your head.

What that tells the mafia is that the medic has an ability that can be used at night.
The mafia won't know if the medic is a DT, or a Bus Driver, or a Vig, or a Medic. But all they will know is that they should kill the medic before night 2.

It sounds like your part of the mafia, trying to get a nice hit list.


wrong. You don't know it's a medic. You've only seen the penalty. How does telling the town you can act on certain nights imply you're a medic? Explain, especially since any sane person's first thought would be Vigilante.

What that tells the mafia is that the person has an ability that can be used at night.
The mafia won't know if the person is a DT, or a Bus Driver, or a Vig, or a Medic. But all they will know is that they should kill the medic before night 2.


and how will they find said medic? They can't because they don't know who the medic is. They just know penalties. Once again penalties do not imply roles. If it does then tell me my role, and tell zeks his role if you believe this.

And Pyrr is mafia. Stop voting for Bill Murray and deal with him tomorrow.

Not all penalties imply roles.

##vote Ace
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:53 GMT
#277
Bill Murray, get the fuck in here and say something.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:57 GMT
#280
On August 09 2010 10:54 Divinek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:49 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:44 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:41 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:39 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:31 Ace wrote:
And if that's the penalty then the medic simply says my penalty is that I can only act on certain days. That doesn't tell you or anyone else that the role is medic. Did you READ when I first proposed this plan? We'll get your role later on in the game or upon death and then match it up with everything else we know. I know what I'm talking about and my logic is 100% on point, get off of wikipedia and use your head.

What that tells the mafia is that the medic has an ability that can be used at night.
The mafia won't know if the medic is a DT, or a Bus Driver, or a Vig, or a Medic. But all they will know is that they should kill the medic before night 2.

It sounds like your part of the mafia, trying to get a nice hit list.


wrong. You don't know it's a medic. You've only seen the penalty. How does telling the town you can act on certain nights imply you're a medic? Explain, especially since any sane person's first thought would be Vigilante.

What that tells the mafia is that the person has an ability that can be used at night.
The mafia won't know if the person is a DT, or a Bus Driver, or a Vig, or a Medic. But all they will know is that they should kill the medic before night 2.


and how will they find said medic? They can't because they don't know who the medic is. They just know penalties. Once again penalties do not imply roles. If it does then tell me my role, and tell zeks his role if you believe this.

And Pyrr is mafia. Stop voting for Bill Murray and deal with him tomorrow.


you didnt answer my question

I'm scummy because I'm trying (and failing miserably) to keep the mafia from picking out blues.
Ace is clearly innocent because his plan is getting us no closer to identifying any scum and never will.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 01:57 GMT
#281
On August 09 2010 10:55 chaoser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:50 chaoser wrote:
People are not saying mafia will know the specific role of each player, just that they will know if the player is blue or not -_-


please respond to this -_-

There's no response Ace can make because it is true.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 02:20 GMT
#293
On August 09 2010 11:01 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:49 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:44 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:41 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:39 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:31 Ace wrote:
And if that's the penalty then the medic simply says my penalty is that I can only act on certain days. That doesn't tell you or anyone else that the role is medic. Did you READ when I first proposed this plan? We'll get your role later on in the game or upon death and then match it up with everything else we know. I know what I'm talking about and my logic is 100% on point, get off of wikipedia and use your head.

What that tells the mafia is that the medic has an ability that can be used at night.
The mafia won't know if the medic is a DT, or a Bus Driver, or a Vig, or a Medic. But all they will know is that they should kill the medic before night 2.

It sounds like your part of the mafia, trying to get a nice hit list.


wrong. You don't know it's a medic. You've only seen the penalty. How does telling the town you can act on certain nights imply you're a medic? Explain, especially since any sane person's first thought would be Vigilante.

What that tells the mafia is that the person has an ability that can be used at night.
The mafia won't know if the person is a DT, or a Bus Driver, or a Vig, or a Medic. But all they will know is that they should kill the medic before night 2.


and how will they find said medic? They can't because they don't know who the medic is. They just know penalties. Once again penalties do not imply roles. If it does then tell me my role, and tell zeks his role if you believe this.

And Pyrr is mafia. Stop voting for Bill Murray and deal with him tomorrow.



Not all penalties imply roles.

##vote Ace


Exactly. So if you know this to be true, why would you be against penalty claiming. You just admitted we can't figure out who's role is what based on penalties

Hi scum :D


Some of them imply blue. That's all mafia needs. Sure some blues might have penalties that don't hint that they are blue. How many people out there are green and have penalties that hint blue? So far only Divinek, who may be mafia. In any case hadn't heard otherwise and I'm sure the mafia like their odds based on how this conversation has played out (ie right into mafia hands) which is why I should have realized not to have the conversation in the first place but congrats for catching me playing like crap.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 02:35 GMT
#298
On August 09 2010 11:30 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 11:25 Divinek wrote:
On August 09 2010 11:23 citi.zen wrote:
On August 09 2010 11:11 Ace wrote:
Not at all chaoser. Action doesn't imply night action or day action. It can be anything. Voting is an action. Talking to a certain player is an action. Action does not imply blue! Look at page 3 of this thread. Hessmyrr points out 2 such instances:


[Shy Townie]
You are Townie! however you are shy and likes to avoid a crowd. You cannot vote for player with highest number of votes at that moment (it is fine if the player you have once voted becomes the one with the highest vote).


The role is Townie. The action is you can't vote for a certain player. If I only told you that you can't vote(the action) for a certain player (the penalty) you have no idea that the role is Townie.


You are Townie! You are also terrified of mafia lurking in the night, so must choose one person to visit every night (it will be randomly determined in case no decision was given). If mafia targets you on that night, you will be intercepted on the way to your target and will die alone.


The role is Townie once again. The action is visiting a player at night. The penalty is if you're caught visiting someone by mafia you die.

Looking at both penalties, how could you know whether the person is blue or green? You can't. The people coming up with this nonsense are bullshitting.

Perhaps I am reading this too closely, but I don't see the word "action" in either of those descriptions. In fact, they are quite different from what you and bumatlarge described, but close to what zeks posted.

At any rate what Bill did is against the rules unless he is red or knows something we don't. So I am still all for lynching him right now.



what did he do that was against the rules?

If he is not red, does not have additional information and has no restriction on speaking (as the OP says), he went for personal vendetta at the risk of screwing he town over. Usually there is a "play to win" rule.

I'm starting to think that if there was a meticulously enforced play to win rule, Bill Murray would have been on a permanent ban list long ago.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 03:06 GMT
#301
On August 09 2010 12:00 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 11:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
On August 09 2010 11:30 citi.zen wrote:
On August 09 2010 11:25 Divinek wrote:
On August 09 2010 11:23 citi.zen wrote:
On August 09 2010 11:11 Ace wrote:
Not at all chaoser. Action doesn't imply night action or day action. It can be anything. Voting is an action. Talking to a certain player is an action. Action does not imply blue! Look at page 3 of this thread. Hessmyrr points out 2 such instances:


[Shy Townie]
You are Townie! however you are shy and likes to avoid a crowd. You cannot vote for player with highest number of votes at that moment (it is fine if the player you have once voted becomes the one with the highest vote).


The role is Townie. The action is you can't vote for a certain player. If I only told you that you can't vote(the action) for a certain player (the penalty) you have no idea that the role is Townie.


You are Townie! You are also terrified of mafia lurking in the night, so must choose one person to visit every night (it will be randomly determined in case no decision was given). If mafia targets you on that night, you will be intercepted on the way to your target and will die alone.


The role is Townie once again. The action is visiting a player at night. The penalty is if you're caught visiting someone by mafia you die.

Looking at both penalties, how could you know whether the person is blue or green? You can't. The people coming up with this nonsense are bullshitting.

Perhaps I am reading this too closely, but I don't see the word "action" in either of those descriptions. In fact, they are quite different from what you and bumatlarge described, but close to what zeks posted.

At any rate what Bill did is against the rules unless he is red or knows something we don't. So I am still all for lynching him right now.



what did he do that was against the rules?

If he is not red, does not have additional information and has no restriction on speaking (as the OP says), he went for personal vendetta at the risk of screwing he town over. Usually there is a "play to win" rule.

I'm starting to think that if there was a meticulously enforced play to win rule, Bill Murray would have been on a permanent ban list long ago.

he is banned in all of ace's games.

I think I might copy ace's playbook here depending on how these games turn out .
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 04:45 GMT
#309
##vote Bill Murray

you don't get to fuck the town over all day, show up and claim its my fault

"I've been a treestump. I hated using it, but when you're near a lynch, it is a good ability. Wouldn't you rather be able to continue talking than have to sit on the sidelines watching? you can still do behavioral analysis and catch scum as a treestump."

He should not use that role. Is he even allowed to talk after using that? I'm not sure he is.

"See how he "isn't worried about me", because he is wanting this wagon to go on Ace. I really wouldn't be surprised if Pyrrhuloxia was the Godfather."

I wasn't as worried about you because I thought you might be blue BECAUSE YOU WERE FUCKING LYING, ASSHOLE.

"You are scum trying to go against a plan that puts pressure on you."
You're damn right it puts pressure on me. Pressure to reveal my role WHICH SHOULD NOT BE FORCED ON ANYONE at this point.

"So you're implying that he caught you on your scum slip? I wouldn't say you've been playing like crap if you're red, you have a wagon going on me, and you almost had a townie with a vendetta lynch a town aligned power role, which would have been some absolute awesomeness for you.
The only crappy part about your play is that you were too willing to bandwagon and have little slipups about the amount of information you have."

Little slipups about the information I had- we've been having that all over town thanks to Ace's plan here. I notice you don't specify any of these.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 05:19 GMT
#318
You wanna know my penalty?

I can perform a certain action but it doesn't go through until two mornings later.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 05:20 GMT
#319
"Surely if you thought it was a bad idea then you wouldn't have been trying to figure out what Bill Murray's penalty is."

That's because I figured the only way for him to use his ability to benefit town was through what I was trying to do.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 05:21 GMT
#321
"Secondly you've done a very fast flip to vote on Bill Murray with no good reasoning."

I don't need good reasoning, I'm about to get killed when someone who has lied to town all day is getting off scott free and the guy he was trying to kill doesn't give a shit.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 05:26 GMT
#322
"Er? So if you knowingly thought Bill Murray might be blue...but you were up in arms against my plan because you felt it would reveal blues...then why did you try to derive BM's penalty?"

I asked him whether he had a full list or just you. If it was just you, then we would have that info and could use it immediately. I guess he might have had some hidden ability to get more mafia later but even then it's already a good trade. If he has the whole list and gives it to us, kaching we win, Hesmyrr is a bad game designer. Maybe I should have respected him more but I thought one role was reasonable.

In fact, if you knew he was lying isn't that a very good cause to be worried? "
"Wait a sec - how did you know he was lying Pyrr?"

I dunno, maybe because he said he couldn't talk to town... AND THEN STARTED TALKING TO TOWN? I obviously didn't think he was lying when I thought he was blue. How would I know he was lying if I was mafia unless he was on my team? Because you don't seem to think he is. Maybe he's on your team?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 06:37 GMT
#325
On August 09 2010 15:22 Jayme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 14:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
"Secondly you've done a very fast flip to vote on Bill Murray with no good reasoning."

I don't need good reasoning, I'm about to get killed when someone who has lied to town all day is getting off scott free and the guy he was trying to kill doesn't give a shit.


This is the only point with you I'm willing to agree with. It's pretty much a cardinal rule that a townie is not to lie...ever. The thing is you basically pushed said blue rule on BM and he went with it.

My penalty is that I look extremely guilty.

I didn't push it on him. I had an idea and Bill Murray lied to troll me and the rest of town.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 20:28 GMT
#353
On August 10 2010 04:17 Korynne wrote:
Pyrr, do you have to be alive for your action to be carried out 2 mornings later? Because if not then we should just keep Pyrr around, let Pyrr claim what he did after it's going to go through, and then see if it happens (unless mafia roleblocks him, in which case he should know and then tell us whatever he wants accordingly). Doesn't clear him, but like, it's something more tangible than the other claims we've gotten.

I have to survive Night 2. :-/
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 22:35 GMT
#359
I am detective.
When I am dead, go after:

Ace: Mafia
Bill Murray: Mafia / Ass

Sorry to town for playing like shit this game. GJ Ace for defenestrating the town with a scummy plan that couldn't be argued against effectively without the blues giving themselves away. The greens will see it as harmless and jump in, isolating, identifying and FoSing the blues who will be hurt by it. Very clever.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 22:35 GMT
#360
On August 10 2010 07:33 Bill Murray wrote:
at this point we need to really consolidate votes
this isnt like a typical mafiascum game in terms of day 1 lasting 3 weeks... so we need to consolidate votes FAST and speed up the pace so we can pressure people into slipping up

Yes, no time to think things through; town must be as mindless as possible.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 22:45 GMT
#365
On August 10 2010 07:44 Ace wrote:
Yea I think that's the one. But the most damning thing about all of this is that not only have they argued with me, but not a single one of them has come up with a new idea or direction to go on. All this complaining about blue roles dying and no positive input on doing something to help. Do these sound like pro town moves to you?

You of all people should know that no blue confirmation plan is necessary for town to win.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 22:52 GMT
#369
On August 10 2010 07:50 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 07:45 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
On August 10 2010 07:44 Ace wrote:
Yea I think that's the one. But the most damning thing about all of this is that not only have they argued with me, but not a single one of them has come up with a new idea or direction to go on. All this complaining about blue roles dying and no positive input on doing something to help. Do these sound like pro town moves to you?

You of all people should know that no blue confirmation plan is necessary for town to win.


And once again you're putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said I'm making a blue confirmation plan. Hell, show me ANYWHERE where I've said I'm valuing blue roles over green?

I'm not talking to you anymore, you haven't been responding to me honestly or straight forwardly all game long; everything I post, you answer to something I haven't said.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 22:53 GMT
#370
I can't post my role PM due to roles so I will paraphrase.

My checking takes longer than usual because I am Cautious Detective.

If I submit a check night one, I get the result at the end of night 2 / start of day 3.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 22:53 GMT
#371
*due to rules
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 22:54 GMT
#372
On August 10 2010 07:49 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 07:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I am detective.
When I am dead, go after:

Ace: Mafia
Bill Murray: Mafia / Ass

Sorry to town for playing like shit this game. GJ Ace for defenestrating the town with a scummy plan that couldn't be argued against effectively without the blues giving themselves away. The greens will see it as harmless and jump in, isolating, identifying and FoSing the blues who will be hurt by it. Very clever.



I lol'd.

Let me get this straight...

You are a detective right? But you must wait TWO days to act?

L
O
L

So you can't use your powers at all on Night 1, but somehow using it on Night 2 makes it all better? But you admit you played like shit this game, as if that's a reason to take sympathy on you.

Ignoring your play though this is what your entire role looks like:

You are a detective. Your penalty is that you can't act until Night 2.

Yea, ok. Whatever. If this is true then we all might as well stop playing this game because all our roles would be so bad I don't think Hessmyrr would have even created the game. Town would have no chance due to the possibility of starting off with a good shot of 2 mislynches (2 Day 1's) and the chance of 2 power roles getting clocked before we get it straight.

You're bullshitting.

You're right, it does suck. That's why I thought maybe we had a mute role that knew a mafia day 1.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 23:01 GMT
#377
On August 10 2010 07:54 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 07:52 bumatlarge wrote:
I believe he said his actions dont get registered til two days after, which is long time for such a small game, Id imagine mafia have some harsh penalties to compensate. Like no KP :D one can hope.


That's the thing, the mafia don't have any penalties.

@Pyrr: You know if you really wanted to save yourself you'd be trying to convince the rest of the town to change their vote. Not me. But you don't even seem like you care about living so if you die to a lynch it's your own fault. Toodles ^_^

If I don't get lynched, you just kill me tonight before I can use my role. If I die, people see why your plan was scummy and apparently that's the wake up call this town needs because they've been ignoring logic from LSB and I.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 23:06 GMT
#383
On August 10 2010 08:02 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 07:57 Ace wrote:
you dont KNOW who's blue. I've already proved it by showing the examples Hessmyrr used. READ THE THREAD.

Cute. I replied, and you know it. Those examples were easy to read.

Isn't that so annoying how he does that? He is so good at this slippery, headache inducing stuff.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 23:09 GMT
#384
On August 10 2010 08:04 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 08:02 citi.zen wrote:
On August 10 2010 07:57 Ace wrote:
you dont KNOW who's blue. I've already proved it by showing the examples Hessmyrr used. READ THE THREAD.

Cute. I replied, and you know it. Those examples were easy to read.


If you think that's the case I'll give you a simple task: come up with an idea of your own instead of complaining. You don't have to listen to me, you can just do something yourself.

See, like here: If you say his plan is bad he says "you don't have a plan." It's like liberals when they attack conservatives for "not having a plan" as if only the government can have a plan, when it's not a true assumption. You don't need a claiming plan in mafia; TL needs more role-less games, I think, so people can figure out how to play. We don't need an organization if individuals up they game.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 09 2010 23:16 GMT
#387
So if we have some role that can protect me decently (doubtful), try to keep me alive?
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 21 2010 23:59 GMT
#856
@Ace - I still don't think claiming was a good idea. Unlike you, I figured all of town had penalties (oh hey that's why it's called penalty mafia) so I figured everyone was more useless than normal but that there might be more blues than normal to balance things out. But I also figured there were a lot of green roles (notice that the stump role is basically a green role since it's power can never be useful).

At least from my perspective, you can see how shitty your plan was for my particular role. The only way I can use my power is if I keep a low profile until day 3. Also, my penalty is hard to talk about without making me look blue, in comparison to yours and others. Like I said before dying, your plan got greens to jump on board fast and it made the reluctant people (both DTs) stick out like sore thumbs. It gave mafia a bunch of blue sniping info on day 1, when our blues were penalized to begin with.

Your plan relied on the mod putting a super awesome vigi role in the game when the name of the game is "penalty mafia". I don't think you have grounds to say I was stupid to balk at your plan when it prima facie helped mafia a lot and only helped town if there was a more powerful than normal vigi in a game where the theme is roles being less powerful than usual. The only other benefit to your plan ever articulated was "I just wanted everyone to claim penalties so you could HOLD everyone to their penalties and kill off the liars asap." This is stupid because the mod made it clear that mafia was given fake penalties and the mafia can easily choose a penalty they can stick to without any repercussions (exhibit A: Scamp). Meanwhile, knowing innocent penalties gives tons of blue sniping hints to mafia, and it can also help them plan out hits based on when people can act since the mafia could tell when certain people are or aren't dangerous to them.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
August 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#857
Basically, I was right to lynch Bill Murray for lying but no one gave a shit. Not lynching BM after Ace died is sort of inexcusable.

I wanted to lynch Ace because I found his plan to be very pro-mafia and not very pro-town. I still believe that to be the case. He believes the inverse and now thinks I suck. I do suck at playing when I'm not red. I still think Ace is good but I also still think his plan made town worse off.
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