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On July 20 2010 15:08 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:03 BrownBear wrote:
d3, you should actually just say whether you are a vet or not. Easiest way to solve my confusion. Are you kidding me? d3's smart, and hopefully won't let the mafia know what he is / isn't. ...
He doesn't have to roleclaim, dude. He just has to say "i'm vet" or "i'm not". If he isn't, medic is going to keep protecting him anyway, and if he is, mafia will more than likely just leave him alone.
On July 20 2010 15:11 Protactinium wrote:
BrownBear: your post assumes that there are two Veterans? We do not know that there are that. If there is only one other Veteran and d3_crescentia claims that the logic goes to nil.
Read the OP, sir. It clearly states there are 2 vets in the role list.
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Ignore me, I'm an idiot. Should have read OP.
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On July 20 2010 15:14 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:08 DarthThienAn wrote:On July 20 2010 15:03 BrownBear wrote:
d3, you should actually just say whether you are a vet or not. Easiest way to solve my confusion. Are you kidding me? d3's smart, and hopefully won't let the mafia know what he is / isn't. ... He doesn't have to roleclaim, dude. He just has to say "i'm vet" or "i'm not". If he isn't, medic is going to keep protecting him anyway, and if he is, mafia will more than likely just leave him alone.
i don't think we want to give the mafia any extra information. it doesn't matter to us whether d3 is a vet or not, but it matters very much to the mafia.
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BB, the main hurdles are
1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as)
and 2) mafia will snipe other blues
basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects.
we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players.
i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea.
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On July 20 2010 15:21 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:14 BrownBear wrote:On July 20 2010 15:08 DarthThienAn wrote:On July 20 2010 15:03 BrownBear wrote:
d3, you should actually just say whether you are a vet or not. Easiest way to solve my confusion. Are you kidding me? d3's smart, and hopefully won't let the mafia know what he is / isn't. ... He doesn't have to roleclaim, dude. He just has to say "i'm vet" or "i'm not". If he isn't, medic is going to keep protecting him anyway, and if he is, mafia will more than likely just leave him alone. i don't think we want to give the mafia any extra information. it doesn't matter to us whether d3 is a vet or not, but it matters very much to the mafia.
Fair point. If he is vet, following my idea = he'll claim anyway, so I guess we'll see.
...
That is the single best fucking argument to lynch me ever.
*facepalm*
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What makes you think it is an argument to lynch you?
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On July 20 2010 15:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BB, the main hurdles are
1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as)
and 2) mafia will snipe other blues
basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects.
we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players.
i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea.
1) legitimate problem, and it's true that GFs tend to pick vet a lot.
2) I have to disagree with you on this one. I see vet as extremely useful as a confirmed townie.
As an example, let me talk about a game I used to play a long time ago (back on squidi.net, if anyone still remembers that site), that was very similar to mafia. There was a role in this game called War Hero, who was basically a townie confirmed at the start who could be used as a rallying point for townies. Only problem was, he died a LOT, because mafia would stack KP on him (rightfully so, recognizing how dangerous he was).
Then one host mixed it up a bit, and gave him 2 nightlives. The next game, he singlehandedly won it for town, because Mafia was suddenly not willing to blow that much KP just to kill one target, and he was able to rally enough town around him to form a town circle larger than the mafia team (which usually means mafia is screwed, unless they get really lucky).
Veterans exist as meatshields. People tend to play them as "they exist in secrecy, so maybe mafia will target them instead of another blue role". Sure, that CAN work, but in a setup this open, I think it's a far better idea to have them claim. All the sudden, mafia has to stack 4 KP (more if medics protect them) to take out 2 confirmed townies, all for the price of depleting the pool of people-who-might-be-medic-or-DT by 2. With PMs allowed as well, the coordination possibilities and the sheer unkillability of 4 nightlives worth of confirmed town far outweighs the downside of not having those random beefy dudes in the pool. How often do you see a vet soak a nighthit anyway? In my experience, it happens maybe once a game, if that.
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On July 20 2010 15:29 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
What makes you think it is an argument to lynch you?
I dunno. There's a lot of people gunning for me right now. At this point, I have to see anything attacking either my position or me as an argument for lynch.
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On July 20 2010 15:32 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BB, the main hurdles are
1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as)
and 2) mafia will snipe other blues
basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects.
we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players.
i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea. 1) legitimate problem, and it's true that GFs tend to pick vet a lot. 2) I have to disagree with you on this one. I see vet as extremely useful as a confirmed townie. As an example, let me talk about a game I used to play a long time ago (back on squidi.net, if anyone still remembers that site), that was very similar to mafia. There was a role in this game called War Hero, who was basically a townie confirmed at the start who could be used as a rallying point for townies. Only problem was, he died a LOT, because mafia would stack KP on him (rightfully so, recognizing how dangerous he was). Then one host mixed it up a bit, and gave him 2 nightlives. The next game, he singlehandedly won it for town, because Mafia was suddenly not willing to blow that much KP just to kill one target, and he was able to rally enough town around him to form a town circle larger than the mafia team (which usually means mafia is screwed, unless they get really lucky). Veterans exist as meatshields. People tend to play them as "they exist in secrecy, so maybe mafia will target them instead of another blue role". Sure, that CAN work, but in a setup this open, I think it's a far better idea to have them claim. All the sudden, mafia has to stack 4 KP (more if medics protect them) to take out 2 confirmed townies, all for the price of depleting the pool of people-who-might-be-medic-or-DT by 2. With PMs allowed as well, the coordination possibilities and the sheer unkillability of 4 nightlives worth of confirmed town far outweighs the downside of not having those random beefy dudes in the pool. How often do you see a vet soak a nighthit anyway? In my experience, it happens maybe once a game, if that.
that's all well and good but since we are pretty sure our first vet has lost his first life, as soon as the second vet claims the suicide bomber just fucks him right up the ass. Im positive bm said suicide bomber insta kills vet
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So a pretty interesting thing that happened was (believe me or not, it doesn't really affect anything) foolishness pm'd me this morning being pretty vague. He said something like he needed a few things for someone to check up on and that I could help him figure a few things out. I have no clue what he was talking about and by the time I replied he was already dead.
Anyways, now that SC2 is back down I'm gonna go read through pretty much the entire thread again. Brb.
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On July 20 2010 15:35 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:32 BrownBear wrote:On July 20 2010 15:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BB, the main hurdles are
1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as)
and 2) mafia will snipe other blues
basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects.
we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players.
i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea. 1) legitimate problem, and it's true that GFs tend to pick vet a lot. 2) I have to disagree with you on this one. I see vet as extremely useful as a confirmed townie. As an example, let me talk about a game I used to play a long time ago (back on squidi.net, if anyone still remembers that site), that was very similar to mafia. There was a role in this game called War Hero, who was basically a townie confirmed at the start who could be used as a rallying point for townies. Only problem was, he died a LOT, because mafia would stack KP on him (rightfully so, recognizing how dangerous he was). Then one host mixed it up a bit, and gave him 2 nightlives. The next game, he singlehandedly won it for town, because Mafia was suddenly not willing to blow that much KP just to kill one target, and he was able to rally enough town around him to form a town circle larger than the mafia team (which usually means mafia is screwed, unless they get really lucky). Veterans exist as meatshields. People tend to play them as "they exist in secrecy, so maybe mafia will target them instead of another blue role". Sure, that CAN work, but in a setup this open, I think it's a far better idea to have them claim. All the sudden, mafia has to stack 4 KP (more if medics protect them) to take out 2 confirmed townies, all for the price of depleting the pool of people-who-might-be-medic-or-DT by 2. With PMs allowed as well, the coordination possibilities and the sheer unkillability of 4 nightlives worth of confirmed town far outweighs the downside of not having those random beefy dudes in the pool. How often do you see a vet soak a nighthit anyway? In my experience, it happens maybe once a game, if that. that's all well and good but since we are pretty sure our first vet has lost his first life, as soon as the second vet claims the suicide bomber just fucks him right up the ass. Im positive bm said suicide bomber insta kills vet
Why are we sure our first vet has lost his life? Some guy got protected by a medic.
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On July 20 2010 15:35 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:32 BrownBear wrote:On July 20 2010 15:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BB, the main hurdles are
1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as)
and 2) mafia will snipe other blues
basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects.
we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players.
i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea. 1) legitimate problem, and it's true that GFs tend to pick vet a lot. 2) I have to disagree with you on this one. I see vet as extremely useful as a confirmed townie. As an example, let me talk about a game I used to play a long time ago (back on squidi.net, if anyone still remembers that site), that was very similar to mafia. There was a role in this game called War Hero, who was basically a townie confirmed at the start who could be used as a rallying point for townies. Only problem was, he died a LOT, because mafia would stack KP on him (rightfully so, recognizing how dangerous he was). Then one host mixed it up a bit, and gave him 2 nightlives. The next game, he singlehandedly won it for town, because Mafia was suddenly not willing to blow that much KP just to kill one target, and he was able to rally enough town around him to form a town circle larger than the mafia team (which usually means mafia is screwed, unless they get really lucky). Veterans exist as meatshields. People tend to play them as "they exist in secrecy, so maybe mafia will target them instead of another blue role". Sure, that CAN work, but in a setup this open, I think it's a far better idea to have them claim. All the sudden, mafia has to stack 4 KP (more if medics protect them) to take out 2 confirmed townies, all for the price of depleting the pool of people-who-might-be-medic-or-DT by 2. With PMs allowed as well, the coordination possibilities and the sheer unkillability of 4 nightlives worth of confirmed town far outweighs the downside of not having those random beefy dudes in the pool. How often do you see a vet soak a nighthit anyway? In my experience, it happens maybe once a game, if that. that's all well and good but since we are pretty sure our first vet has lost his first life, as soon as the second vet claims the suicide bomber just fucks him right up the ass. Im positive bm said suicide bomber insta kills vet
We aren't though, is the thing. People seem pretty divided ATM, and I can't actually make up my mind. His post makes it sound like he was protected.
Did forget about suicide bomber though. That might be a problem.
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BrownBear i'd like to see more input from the rest of the town but i guess my sentiments on vets claiming boils to this:
1. the town wants the mafia to inadvertently waste hits on vets
2. vets claiming practically guarantees that this will not happen
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On July 20 2010 15:35 youngminii wrote:
So a pretty interesting thing that happened was (believe me or not, it doesn't really affect anything) foolishness pm'd me this morning being pretty vague. He said something like he needed a few things for someone to check up on and that I could help him figure a few things out. I have no clue what he was talking about and by the time I replied he was already dead.
Anyways, now that SC2 is back down I'm gonna go read through pretty much the entire thread again. Brb.
Dammit. THEY ALWAYS GET TO THE GUY FIRST.
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On July 20 2010 15:37 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:35 Divinek wrote:On July 20 2010 15:32 BrownBear wrote:On July 20 2010 15:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BB, the main hurdles are
1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as)
and 2) mafia will snipe other blues
basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects.
we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players.
i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea. 1) legitimate problem, and it's true that GFs tend to pick vet a lot. 2) I have to disagree with you on this one. I see vet as extremely useful as a confirmed townie. As an example, let me talk about a game I used to play a long time ago (back on squidi.net, if anyone still remembers that site), that was very similar to mafia. There was a role in this game called War Hero, who was basically a townie confirmed at the start who could be used as a rallying point for townies. Only problem was, he died a LOT, because mafia would stack KP on him (rightfully so, recognizing how dangerous he was). Then one host mixed it up a bit, and gave him 2 nightlives. The next game, he singlehandedly won it for town, because Mafia was suddenly not willing to blow that much KP just to kill one target, and he was able to rally enough town around him to form a town circle larger than the mafia team (which usually means mafia is screwed, unless they get really lucky). Veterans exist as meatshields. People tend to play them as "they exist in secrecy, so maybe mafia will target them instead of another blue role". Sure, that CAN work, but in a setup this open, I think it's a far better idea to have them claim. All the sudden, mafia has to stack 4 KP (more if medics protect them) to take out 2 confirmed townies, all for the price of depleting the pool of people-who-might-be-medic-or-DT by 2. With PMs allowed as well, the coordination possibilities and the sheer unkillability of 4 nightlives worth of confirmed town far outweighs the downside of not having those random beefy dudes in the pool. How often do you see a vet soak a nighthit anyway? In my experience, it happens maybe once a game, if that. that's all well and good but since we are pretty sure our first vet has lost his first life, as soon as the second vet claims the suicide bomber just fucks him right up the ass. Im positive bm said suicide bomber insta kills vet Why are we sure our first vet has lost his life? Some guy got protected by a medic.
no, we just know that d3 took a hit. not whether he is vet or was protected (or i guess both is possible to lol)
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On July 20 2010 15:38 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BrownBear i'd like to see more input from the rest of the town but i guess my sentiments on vets claiming boils to this:
1. the town wants the mafia to inadvertently waste hits on vets
2. vets claiming practically guarantees that this will not happen
Yeah, that's how a normal setup works. What I'm saying though, is because we know the exact number of vets in this game, we can use that to our advantage and use the vets as confirmed townies, to greater effect. I believe coordination > random hit soaking, but I guess we have to agree to disagree.
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Wow, damn not realizing it was a fully revealed setup just wasted my night's thinking.
Regardless, this kind of setup is very favorable to the town...
Ugh, back to thinking. Screw my inattentiveness.
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also i'm going to bed in a couple minutes
but don't forget we need to decide when to use our first double lynch
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Probably not today, unless we can find two clearly delineated targets.
Ah, scrolling backward. With the whole Vet idea, let's not forget this:
On July 20 2010 13:44 Subversion wrote:Hey man, congratulations, that's really exciting news  Wish you all the best On point, I was also in agreement about the weirdness of Foolishness's post, but now he's dead. Seems at the moment, mafia aren't making too many mistakes.Not sure about the block of votes for Hyperbola, seems if it was a scum-instigated thing they could have easily spread it out more? Might have just been a bunch of townies jumping on the bandwagon. Although, I would guess there's a good chance there's one or two mafia in there, who saw an opportunity to jump on a townie vote.
And don't forget he made the winning (or losing...) vote.
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EPT
