EPTAlso, why wouldn't everyone put 1 as their second number?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Also, why wouldn't everyone put 1 as their second number? | ||
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Radfield
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Radfield
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I want Bill Murray to take Inventor and L's replacement to take Compulsive Vigilante. Foolishness will take Roleblocker. Seems to me that the Jack of all Trades needs to be monitored. It's just as powerful as Compulsive Vigiliante, if not more so. Since Korynne is on board, she could take that role. | ||
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Radfield
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On May 01 2010 19:26 Korynne wrote: I don't get why this is such a big deal. =( I'm worried about this plan Qatol. If Bill/L/Foolishness are mafia and just skip their designated thing or worse, pick someone else's then we're kinda screwed no? Like, if Bill picks compulsive vigilante, and then his mafia buddy later along the road picks up the inventor. We don't know who it is, and L can't get compulsive vigilante so we lose the double lynch... Bill acting funny has got me thinking and worried about this whole plan in general. But at least then we get to lynch Bill. One down, three to go. | ||
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Radfield
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If we know the inventor role is around and being used for anti-town purposes, we can get the other people on the top of the list to roleclaim and try to catch someone in a lie. Possibly catch another mafia. It seems like there is some risk here of putting additional power roles in mafia hands, but with the trade off that those mafia will be easier to find and lynch. | ||
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On May 01 2010 19:37 Bill Murray wrote: i don't know if i will take inventor, as I can't trust anyone (they have to give their gifts to someone) Just start giving out bulletproof vests. They help a town player much more than they help a mafia player, so it doesn't really matter who you give them to. Or invent something that will only help a town player.... I'll think on this. | ||
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Radfield
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Assuming BM is pro-town and follows the plan, does this make sense? Potential problems: Paranoid Doctors would cancel the inventors ability; the mafia will likely have additional KP Also, I think it likely that the mafia would hedge their bets when sending in numbers. Send in [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] and then a very high number which would be unlikely to be doubled up on(15-20). Not just the low numbers. BM, do you have any reason for not telling us your number? | ||
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Radfield
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What we cannot have happen is that the mafia land either of these roles, and we don't know who they are. Bill Murray, regardless if you ever even use the inventor role, you need to take it simply to keep it out of mafia hands. To do otherwise would be very anti-town. We will likely have two docs, so they can protect you from a mafia hit while you invent pro-town equipment and dole it out. But even if you get killed, you STILL keep the inventor role out of mafia hands, which is a huge boost for the town. If anyone has any argument against this please speak up. Just to be clear, to have either of those high KP roles in unknown mafia hands would be very painful for the town. | ||
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Radfield
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So basically, since I didn't get my role (not roleblocker or inventor, but something pretty important), someone else took it. On May 02 2010 18:11 Korynne wrote: If there are no better candidates at the end of the day I propose an alignment check on either BM or Foolishness, and a role check on me. Actually I'm not sure which one is better(which check to use on who)... I really need to sleep. xD Regarding your comment about johnnyspazz, it just seems to mean that Incognito didn't teach him very well. xP Why would we do a role check on you, when in your previous post you said you didn't get the role you wanted? I took this to mean that you did not get a role at all, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it. It seems like role checking you would be a waste for now, since you're basically claiming Vanilla. But, Korynne knows one of either BM or Foolishness has the powerful role she tried to take. Assuming you followed Qatol's plan, that would mean you tried to take compulsive Vig and didn't get it(the other 'important role' in my mind would be day vig). My guess at the moment would be BM with inventor, Foolishness with CompVig, and Korynne with nothing. The real question is, is it in our best interest to have the top few on the list roleclaim(if one of them tried to lie, it's possible Korynne would know right off), or does it make sense to see what happens night one and then decide. So if anti-town inventions start getting made, or 2 obvious townies get killed, we then call for a roleclaim. Whether we roleclaim or not, I think it makes sense to have our role checks and alignment checks focused on BM and Foolishness. Inventor and CompVig are going to have a huge impact on this game, so we need to know who they are, and what alignment they are. | ||
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Radfield
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Qatol mentioned earlier that we should vote on who the Comp Vig kills. This seems like a great plan, and if anyone has any objections then bring them out. If the role landed in townie hands, it allows us to come to a decision as a group, and effectively double lynch each day. It also takes the risk away of a townie with poor judgment shooting up the town. If the role is in mafia hands, either they play along(which is great) or they don't. If they don't play along, we immediately know that CompVig = Mafia. Since we know the CompVig is high up on the draft list, we can quickly zero in on a mafia. So no matter who has the CompVig, we should be able to control it by voting in thread for who gets killed. Any town player would play along(given it would be extremely anti-town to not) and the mafia either go along or get quickly weeded out. So lets add a ##CompVig: Ace## to when we vote(starting on Day 2). Again if anyone has objections to this lets hear it. The big fuckup I can see is if the CompVig somehow slipped down the list into mafia hands, but I think this unlikely. | ||
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Radfield
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Anyone have any issues with this plan? Also, no one wants to lynch you BM. That would be a terrible move for the town. | ||
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As far as the inventor goes. It seems like there are two possible routes. Protection from mafia(bulletproof vests) or Detective kits. With the mafia only at a KP of 1, and the SK being able to shoot through vests, detective kits seem like a much better option. If we can get a bunch of detective kits out and about, it will make us much more likely to win. Keeping in mind that we possibly have a completely useless alignment cop, and Zona's 5:1 claim, lots of dt kits are probably our surest way towards a victory. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be creative though. Ideally you would combine the two roles in a sweet-ass invention. Like some sort of security robot who can protect you at night and be sent out to investigate during the day. The robot could capture everyone who visits you at night and force them to reveal their role/alignment. Etc | ||
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Radfield
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If you want to go balls to the wall with the news that's fine, but it doesn't make it a good idea. It doesn't actually help us at all, certainly helps us less than the things i'm putting forward. You COULD create 'Fox News', which doles out faulty clues and we would never know about it. I'm proposing you invent something that is obviously pro-town, you're arguing for something that is ambiguous at best, useless at worst. Consider from our point of veiw. You're claiming Inventor, but none of us know your alignment. If you were mafia, this is exactly what you would try to do. Instead of inventing something directly useful for the town, you're inventing something that seems useful, but which can actually derail and misdirect. Do you see my point? | ||
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Radfield
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I realize if you were mafia you could just hit whoever you give them to, thereby nullifying the effects. But that's a completely acceptable outcome. It would render a potentially powerful mafia role useless. On the other hand, if you are town aligned, you would be spamming dt kits all over town and we would work our way towards figuring out everyone's alignment. With 2-4 dt kits out there in town hands, this game becomes a cake-walk. What you're suggesting does absolutely nothing for us. I realize you are probably not mafia, and if you are we'll find out soon anyways given that you will be among the first to be checked up on. But that doesn't mean your plan is sound. Stop thinking about whether i'm a townie or not, and just look at what i'm saying. | ||
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Radfield
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I think it's great that you're declaring your invention to the town, and great that you have a plan. I absolutely think the medics should be protecting you. I'm open to the option of creating a town circle around you. What I have issue with is the actual invention that you're putting out there. It's not necessarily bad, but surely you're open to the possibility that there might be a better day 1 invention for you to invent. What I think is anti-town, is the take-no-suggestions approach that you're using. Why not let us as a town figure out what the best action to take is, as opposed to simply saying, "It's gonna be the newspaper! If you disagree you must be anti-town!" How do you feel about letting the town have some say in your inventions and discussing the merits of different inventions before deciding? Also, to be clear, I was not imagining a one time use dt kit. I meant an invention that permanently gives someone dt abilities. | ||
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Looking through the thread, an obvious target has emerged. However, I'm assuming that no one has blatently lied so far about their role. Even if that's the case, we will quickly be able to find the liar. So for the moment I'm going to treat everyone's comments about themselves as FACTS. Facts: d3 and caller are dead Facts: Qatal, Korynne, Opz and possibly Falcynn(he's been a touch ambiguous) have no role Facts: Bill Murray is the Inventor and therefore Foolishness is the CompVig Facts: Someone took Copy Cat before Qatol, this person is likely mafia. Facts: Hobbes has a "fun, fun role", probably not Copy Cat, # Bill Murray - Inventor # Foolishness - CompVig # Korynne - VANILLA # Falcynn - VANILLA # [NyC]HoBbes - Fun Role(Not Copy Cat) # ~Opz~ - VANILLA # d3_crescentia - DEAD(Medic) # Caller - DEAD(VANILLA) # sidesprang - ?????Copy Cat????????? # Qatol - VANILLA Assuming these are all facts, we've just found a mafia! Of course, these are not facts, and someone could be lying. But this gives us a great place to start. Lets assume we lynch Sidesprang, 1 of 2 things happen: 1. He is anti-town. HOORAY! 2. He is pro-town. WHOOPS If he is pro-town, all of a sudden the finger has to be pointed elsewhere: 1. Qatol: He's lying about someone else claiming Copy Cat 2. Someone who claimed Vanilla is lying: Korynne, Opz or Falcynn 2a Both Korynne and Opz claimed they tried for CompVig(this situation needs to be analyzed closer) but it lends a tad of credibility. 2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it 3 Hobbes actually took Copy Cat and then posted as a "fun role" to allay suspicion. This seems least likely; being high up in the draft he had no need to take Copy Cat. I think this is a great place to start. If I've made a mistake up to now someone please point it out. So, with Sidesprang as a suspect, lets look at his posting history On May 02 2010 00:31 sidesprang wrote: As i see no reason to not tell my number i picked 6 1(damn you qatol ). My reasoning is simple. Not to high not to low. Kinda trying to figure out what to pick, as since im so late a pick i kinda just want to get something, i dont get any of the really cool ones anyways. As to guessing what numbers the mafia picked, and apply some logic behind it, i think it would problably be as hard as to get a succesfull day 1 lynch. Atleast untill we catch one of the mafias On May 03 2010 11:26 sidesprang wrote: What we need to do is have a game plan. Vote on who the compulsive vigilante should kill, forces a mafia CV to play on our terms or look scummy. A doctor can also block this kill if we feel its needed. Many ppl have supported this idea and there is no drawback in using it. Decide what the inventor should invent, its hard to keep tabs on the inventor but that role is far to powerful to be left completely alone. And since the day post tells us what is invented we can figure out if he is lying. Bulletproof vests sounds awesome, our strength is numbers and reducing hits is a good thing. We should NOT talk about who should get the vests imo as that only makes the mafia not hit that guy. As for who to lynch is there a vote thread or do we just write it like qatol did ? if so ## vote : Amnesia if you check his post he made one post right after getting our alignment and one post right after getting our role where he said nothing of worth. Seems like he follows the game but won't say anything. Might not be too fishy but I don't know what else to go after at this point. Hmm, only two posts of any substance, and only 4 posts the entire thread. Both posts read like scum if you ask me. First post has a lot of words but little substance. Second post is mainly regurgitated obvious pro-town stuff, with a vote for the most inactive person. Also, Amnesia does NOT look fishy, he looks inactive. Now whether you are or are not Mafia Sidesprang, your actions and the claims of others paint you out to be one. Once again, this is a starting point folks. ##Vote Sidesprang ## | ||
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Radfield
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Originally I was going to propose ~opz~ or Falycnn. As I thought they would be most likely to be lying about CopyCat if Sidespring flips green, but looking closer I don't think it likely that either are lying. I really believe that Sidesprang WILL flip red, and at this point I think if he flips green we hit Qatol. BUT, I don't think we should hit Qatol until we find out Sidesprang's alignment. Which means we shouldn't use our CompVig hit on Qatol. Honestly, I don't think Qatol is mafia either at this point. If the Day Vig hit Sidesprang today, that would make this easier. If Sidesprang flips green, we start hitting the people who claimed VANILLA. Worse case we kill VANILLA townies, best case we hit mafia. If Sidesprang flips red, we celebrate and move on. Obivously we don't want to waste our DayVig, but this seems like a decent time to use it. If people disagree please voice it. However, our DayVig is likely near the top of the list, which means they might not live long anyways. Hobbes, I think you're the DayVig, and I also think it likely you will be targeted soon. You're one of the few people at the top of the list who has a role. You are not the Inventor or CV so you won't get medic protection. Lastly, you claimed a 'fun, fun role' which makes you a mafia target. I'm kinda hoping you actually chose Meth Man and then posted 'fun, fun role' in an effort to get yourself hit by mafia. If so you're awesome. But if not, you need to use you're ability while you still can. Please speak up people, I think my reasoning here is sound, but I'm open to other suggestions. | ||
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On May 04 2010 22:33 citi.zen wrote: This possibility is pretty bothersome - we may learn less than advertised by lynching Sidersprang. That said, I would like to hear more from Qatol, he's sort of gone dormant after being very active early on. More importantly Citizen, Are you going to vote Sidesprang? We learn a lot more with him than anyone else at the moment. If he flips green, we KNOW someone has lied and we have the likely candidates of ~opz~, Qatol and Falcynn. Think about it though, Sidesprang is the perfect distance down to pick CopyCat. Not high enough to get a great role, and just high enough to beat out Qatol. The perfect spot to take that pick if you're mafia and have 4 slots. | ||
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On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself  )Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ If we DayVig sidesprang and he flops red, then yeah it might be difficult for us to find another target. But if he flips green, then the dayvig hit becomes extremely useful because we would then hit our potential liars, and save ourselves a ton of time. Remember, we need to vote on a CompVig hit as well. Without the DayVig hitting Sidesprang, our CV hit is very difficult to aim. If the DayVig doesn't shoot Sidesprang, we need to vote on a Compvig hit anyways. Or we just leave it up to Foolishness' judgement. I'd much rather us vote on it though, as then we can at least see if he's following the town. Of course, odds are the compvig hit will end up a townie anyways, so a mafia CV would follow it too, but still better than not voting. | ||
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On May 04 2010 23:19 Scamp wrote: Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now. Because we have a better target who gives us more info, and because no matter if Foolishness is town or mafia aligned, he HAS to do what we say or we lynch him. Alive, he gives us a double lynch each day, no matter his alignment. At this point it's better to have a mafia CV who's following town, then a dead mafia. At some point we may need to lynch him, but certainly not yet. | ||
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Radfield
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On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote: now that we know this.. # Bill Murray inventor let me add a piece of it as well # JeeJee VANILLA i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight? Hold on Jeejee, you're claiming VANILLA?? If so, what did you try to pick? Because if you didn't pick copycat, and it would be strange for you to go for CompVig or Inventor, then you must have picked Hobbes' role. Despite my previous posts, I'm not in favor of outing all the roles. But this is too juicy because we can catch one of Jeejee or Hobbes in a lie possibly. If Jeejee claims what he picked, and Hobbes reveals that he doesn't have that role, then one of them is lying, and we just found another mafia(or SK perhaps, either is good). And Jeejee if you claim to have picked Inventor or Compvig, I would find it highly suspicious, given all our plans of taking those two roles first, and you picking 11th. So Jeejee, WHAT ROLE DID YOU TRY FOR??? and Hobbes, IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH??? We can find out some info here folks. | ||
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On May 04 2010 23:45 citi.zen wrote: OK, so someone who declared vanilla lied and took the role you had chosen. I continue to like Korynne as a red, but Could be anyone really. Caller is not offering anything, as usual - I would be comfortable asking Foolishness to hit him. Caller is Dead. Korynne claimed that either Foolishness or BM took CompVig, which is very risky if she's lying, as there was a decent chance that neither of them took it. | ||
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Radfield
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On May 04 2010 23:47 citi.zen wrote: Or sidersprang took it and Qatol lied. Or another vanilla role claimant lied. Yes, but all of these options lead us back towards the same people. Finding out that someone has lied is great. And if someone HAS lied, then Jeejee telling us what role he went for will tell us what the liars role is. Which means a role cop will be able to deduce alignment. If we find out JeeJee went for the Jack, and that Hobbes is not the Jack, then we know the liar IS the Jack and that the mafia has the Jack. Or that Jeejee is the Jack. Because it's unlikely Jeejee will claim a role that he doesn't have, because someone below him might have it, and he would be outed. But this all first depends on what Hobbes says, and what color Sidesprang flops. | ||
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Radfield
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On May 04 2010 23:54 JeeJee wrote: for the record, caller, sidesprang, qatol and myself numbers were the same would be pretty friggin' stupid for mafia to do this, n'est pas? Of course it would, that's why I pointed that out.... Mind you no one is completely cleared just because they share a number with a mafia. It's not all that difficult a piece of double-think to just pick the same number. | ||
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Radfield
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On May 04 2010 23:58 citi.zen wrote: Ok, we have 4 vanilla role claimants + Hobbes + sidersprang, one of which lied if JeeJee is telling the truth. We should lynch sidersprang, as discussed. I'd like to keep Qatol around. Hitting Hobbes is risky if he has a good role and is pro-town. Leaving us with Korynne, Falcynn and ~Opz~ to use the compulsive vigilante hit on. I will vote to compulsive vig hit Korynne out of that group. And no, I still don't like using he day vig. No reason to speed up the killing on poor information. Let's wait for the lynch flop and save the day vig hit for a time we have more info. I agree in theory, except for if Hobbes is the DayVig. The medic is going to protect either BM or Foolishness, which leaves Hobbes hanging as an exceptionally juicy target, with his 'fun role'. Now with all the discussion around this, there is the possibiliy of the medic protecting hobbes, so the mafia might not hit him after all. Around and around we go.... I still think we should use the DayVig hit, it's very useful right now, and thats as good as we can ask. Either we get a mafia, or we hit a townie and have very good targets for our lynch + CompVig. If we don't use the DayVig hit, what do we learn from hitting Korynne? If she flops vanilla town it means that Foolishness is for sure the CV. If she flops mafia with a special power(not CV) it means foolishness is almost certainly mafia. Because she would never claim to have tried to get CV without knowing for sure that the CV was taken in front of her. BUT! It would be very unlikely for the mafia to double up numbers on 1, 1. And that's exactly what would have happened for Korynne and Foolishness to both be mafia. For this reason, I don't think Korynne is mafia, as the story doesn't quite fit. I'd like to hear from Jeejee about his role, and hobbes confirming or denying, before deciding on the CompVig hit | ||
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Radfield
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You keep stating things as if I haven't given a clear reason for each of the things I put forward. I explained why I left Korynne off the list, I specifically said we should NOT use our CV hit on Qatol, I made a good case for Sidesprang which you casually brushed aside because..... well, no reason. Don't get all defensive about me putting your name out there, try to see why I put it out there. If Sidesprang flops green SOMEONE IS LYING. Surely you agree that we should try to figure out who? | ||
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On May 05 2010 01:20 citi.zen wrote: The issue JeeJee brought up should be addressed: what if we lynch sidersprang and he turns out pro-town and copycat? Then we have... no leads and a dead medic. Everyone else could be telling the truth, no? If he did that then it was awfully anti-town. Qatol stated he was going for the copy-cat, why would another town player swipe it right before him instead of grabbing another useful role? It doesn't make any sense. But yeah, if he flops town aligned copy-cat that sucks, but he deserves it for screwing over the town plan. | ||
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On May 05 2010 02:08 citi.zen wrote: I don't care if "deserves it". Every single game there are bad town-aligned players who screw their team over, and it's too many of them to lynch the lot of them. That's just a sad fact. What matters is what are our best options going forward. I like your reasoning a lot, which is why I voted for him. But can we do better? True enough, deserves is the wrong way to put it. More just that he's forced our hand. I'm not sure if we can do better for now. But we need to decide on a CompVig hit as well. Without knowing how Sidespring will flip, I don't really have any suggestions, but hopefully someone else will. @~opz~ I agree that lynching/hitting Qatol is not warranted. I don't think anyone thinks that's a good idea yet. When I mentioned him before, it was only for if Sidesprang turned out town and not CopyCat. | ||
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On May 05 2010 05:20 Bill Murray wrote: Quoting Zona: he's advocating not lynching liars, which is scummy as fuck people who have been hunting liars (like radfield) increase town cred a lot when he says "but identifying liars (about roles) does NOT identify mafia!" he is just trying to confuse you. Honestly, I think Zona has a good point. If I drafted high up, and got a sweet role, there is a good chance I might lie about it, particularly claiming Vanilla. But I still think that the copy-cat leads us to a mafia, for all the reasons I laid out before. I also think it likely that Sidesprang is the copy-cat, again for the reasons I previously posted. However, as far as what happens after Sidesprang, I'm not so sure. And Zona, I'm definitely not advocating a mass roleclaim in any form. Apart from the Jeejee and Hobbes thing, which in retrospect doesn't look as promising as I thought at the time, I haven't asked for anyone to roleclaim. I only compiled the list of people who had already roleclaimed. | ||
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On May 05 2010 05:36 Bill Murray wrote: radfield, the copycat is now a weak doctor, it really doesn't matter. I'm not hunting for the copycat or the weak doctor, I'm hunting for scum, regardless of role. I'm not sure where else we can start. I'm realizing now that Qatol could have lied about being Vanilla at the start to protect himself, in which case all my logic flies out the window. It also means Sidesprang could be one of our few townies with a sweet role... ugh. I suppose if that is the case Qatol could let us know before we lynch him(...I know, again with the roleclaims....) | ||
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Hit player is mafia: doctor does nothing, 1 red dies, OR doctor protects, no one dies, we know the lynch target is mafia. and Hit player is town: no one dies. Both outcomes no one dies. | ||
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7 and 8 are dead. Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him. For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now. Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat. On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing. | ||
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Also, an invention that keeps evil-doers away would be good to give out. Like the night-light that Opz suggested. It doesn't protect against those who are pure at heart etc. Better than armor in that it stops serial killer hits, and doesn't stop town aligned hits. | ||
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As far as our Compvig hit, I'm fine with voting Johnnyspazz, but I'm not necessarily sold that he is the best target. He has claimed Vanilla, which means if we're wrong we probably don't lose much. He could have lied about being Vanilla, but in this case I doubt he did. Foolishness, I understand you are hesitant to roleclaim, but realize this: If you are NOT the CV, then Korynne (or BM) almost certainly is, and is likely mafia as well. It is very important that we know who the CV is, so that we can control him/her. You may be worried that if you roleclaim you'll become a target for the mafia. But guess what? You already ARE a target for the mafia, and you're likely target number 1. You might be worried that if you roleclaim that you would get roleblocked. But if the mafia have the roleblocker you're going to get roleblocked anyways, because the mafia already likely assume or know that you're the CV. You might be worried about outing your role, but all you have to do is say if you are NOT the CV, you don't have to claim any further. We're all working under the assumption anyways that you are the CV, so confirming it doesn't change anything except for giving the town additional info. You might think this gives the mafia additional info as well, but I don't think so. If Korynne is mafia she already knows the truth, and if Korynne is not mafia, then the mafia have no reason not to believe her claim(it doesn't make sense for her to say what she said if she's a townie. There are reasons to lie, but that's not one of them) At this point it seems very, very likely you are the CV. If you weren't the CV then you would quickly see that Korynne is lying and want to get that in the open. On another note, I highly doubt the roleblocker is in the game. Assuming people are telling the truth about vanilla (somewhat likely that at least Korynne, Opz and Qatol are) then the only people with roles are picks 1, 2, 5 (hobbes), and then pick 12, DarthTheinAn. I highly doubt that hobbes is the RB and it seems equally unlikely that someone after pick 10 would go for it. It's possbile that Falcynn took it and is lying about not sending in a role. I doubt JeeJee would have taken it at pick #11, and I'm still trying to make sense of his earlier post. | ||
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On May 05 2010 17:52 Bill Murray wrote: i need multiple medics to protect me, as foolishness will probably try to night kill me tonight to and stack Bill, we only have max one medic. Plus the single save from the Joat, which may or may not even be in the game. If the CV(foolishness) doesn't follow the town plan, then he's gonna get lynched. So at least your death will not be a total loss. This also means that unless the mafia and SK randomly double up on you, you're probably ok with protection from 1 medic(which is good because it's all we've got). | ||
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Radfield
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On May 05 2010 18:58 Bill Murray wrote: im the inventor radfield how can you even doubt that medics protect me I don't doubt it. But Foolishness seems to, so I was just trying to be thorough. | ||
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Radfield
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But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does. i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely. As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely. So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role. | ||
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Radfield
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At first I was suspicious of Falcynn, but I checked though his history and the main thing that jumped up was that he voted second on the sidesprang lynch, so he seems slightly in the clear. But you know who does strike me as scummy? Scamp. I'm not familiar with his posting in other games, so this might be the norm, but he has accused just about everyone in this game of being mafia. Lets check out some posts I already get the feeling that Radfield is mafia. I, for one, am not afraid of a mafia copycat. If we get a mafia with a day 1 lynch then they had the role anyway. And even if we lose an exceptionally powerful role we'll still know where it is. I think it might be best to push for BM or Foolish right away, the only problem is whether or not I trust Korynne. Right now I'm not sure. Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now. Falcynn seems scummiest to me. I don't see how killing Sidesprang gives any great information. All that being said, Sidesprang still does look suspicious, and it'd be nice if he posted. Sounds to me like Qatol is mafia. I'll add him to my list with Falcynn. vote: Sidesprang Finally puts a vote on Sidesprang, AFTER a majority was reached(I think) So what do we have here, early on he pushes for a quick lynch of either BM or Foolishness, while downplaying the importance of the CopyCat. We now know that the copycat was in mafia hands. He puts a hard or soft FoS on pretty much any active poster he can: BM, Foolishness, Korynne, Falcynn, Qatol and myself. This is not an open and shut case, but I'd love for a few other people to take a close look at him. Also I am not yet recommending we switch our compvig vote. Lets stick with Johnnyspazz for now unless more people agree with me on Scamp. ##CompVig Johnnyspazz## | ||
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Radfield
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On May 06 2010 08:07 Bill Murray wrote: i dont need to prove shit to you Bill, to avoid getting lynched you need to prove to everyone, not just Qatol, that you are pro-town. You have a very, very powerful ability, that is very deadly to the town if it's in mafia hands. Unfortunately for you, the person you passed out the phone to died the same night. This sucks for you, because it's suspicious by it's very nature. This is why tonight, you need to make an invention that is very obviously pro-town, so we can all go "phew" looks like Bill is very unlikely to be mafia. If you invent something obscure again, against the direct wishes of the town, what other option are you leaving us? Look at it from our point of view, we HAVE to be sure the inventor is on our side. The only way to be sure is if the inventor is following instructions from the towns collective judgement. How else can we be sure? | ||
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Radfield
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Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray. If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote: good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent. i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well | ||
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Radfield
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Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today. Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. | ||
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Also, a big note to the Serial Killer. You need to be playing on the town side. With a 8:3:1 ratio, things are definitely in favor of the mafia, considering we don't have any great leads. I propose we vote on the Serial Killer hit tonight in addition to our CompVig hit. Presumably it is in the best interests of the SK and he/she may follow along. If the SK doesn't follow along, it doesn't hurt us anyways. Thoughts? People who strike me as possible Mafia: One of JeeJee or Hobbes(where are you?) , Scamp, DarthTheinAn I'd like to hear all of your thoughts on lynching and CompVig hitting. People who strike me as Not-Mafia: Citizen, Qatol, Falcynn, maybe Zona (I don't like innocent lists[check out incognito last game], and can explain all of the people on this list if need be) | ||
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Radfield
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On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote: JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler + 2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn## I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. | ||
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Radfield
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Of course all of this only holds if Darth flops red. | ||
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First thing that jumps out at me is if you believe the mafia didn't intentionally pick the same number (on 6 or 8 no less), JeeJee and Darth are not mafia together. That's a good point. JeeJee and Darth are likely not mafia together. JeeJee is less likely overall given the fact that he possibly shares numbers with Sidesprang. It is possible he lied about them. Worth checking the time stamps on all the number claims to see if he was totally in the clear when he posted his numbers. If he was, it gives that defence less credibility. Either Scamp or Darth are good targets. I don't mind lynching either one. Whoever the medic is out there, be sure to roleclaim if you are going to be killed by the town, whether it by lynching, CV or suggested SK hit. As far as I'm concerned, the medic is very very likely pro-town. Unfortunately this quickly lowers the possible people the medic could be, and makes his/her death-by-mafia much more likely. Lets just hope there's a meth-man out there as well to keep the mafia honest. | ||
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Radfield
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As I see it, if Darth flips red we lynch Scamp. If Darth flips green we lynch JeeJee. This is all fairly weak reasoning though, so if someone has a better reason to lynch someone else I look forward to it. | ||
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Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack? You're might be right here Foolishness. It's possible I shouldn't have revealed that I was saved by a medic, and should have left the ambiguity of bulletproof or veteran. I had other things on my mind(korynne and the SK), and wanted to get the info about what happened out into the open. I also didn't consider the possibility of the Joat. Anyways, I DID get saved last night, so I guarantee there is either a medic or a joat in the game. However, the only real way to prove I'm not lying is to put my name on the chopping block, and see if someone pops up to confirm me. We have better targets for now though, especially considering I'm about as non-mafia as you can get right now. At worst I'm an elaborately lying SK, and with things the way they are, the SK is the least of our worries. Also, please post who you think we should lynch. While your post has some good points, it's mainly a big sidetrack. | ||
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Radfield
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I'll reiterate my current stance: Lynch Darth, if red CV scamp, if green CV JeeJee. The reason being, I think one of Darth and JeeJee are mafia, so if not Darth then JeeJee. And if Darth is red, then we follow up with our second most suspicious person Scamp. If we lynch Korynne, what do we do if she turns up green? CV Foolishness? Not likely. If she turns up red who do we CV? Darth? JeeJee? Scamp? I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts along this line of thinking. I'd also love to hear what Zona has to say. With 12 in the game we need 7 to lynch. We need to learn from our lynchings, I'm not saying my plan is the best, but I just want everyone to think in terms of a long-term plan. So don't bother criticizing my Darth plan, just come up with a better one. Also, if we don't get a mafia tonight, we are basically forced to lynch Foolishness tomorrow in an effort to buy time. We don't need to discuss this yet, but lets keep it in mind. | ||
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Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around. | ||
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On May 07 2010 08:18 Qatol wrote: Fine, I'll bite. I agree that he is suspicious and we need to lynch someone right now. ##Vote: DarThienAn## Though citi.zen never ceases to amaze me with his ability to come out of nowhere and vote. I want to try something out tonight. ##CompVig: citi.zen## This is just a theory, but I think he is the serial killer. Why? Well go back and look at his discussion of inventions. He specifically emphasizes inventions that not only the town, but the SK would also be immune to (immune to alignment checks, guns that can only kill MAFIA not guns that CANNOT KILL INNOCENTS) Finally, I'm hoping that the SK will work with us tonight (and they very well might if I'm off base on this). In that case, I'd like them to hit either Scamp or JeeJee based on how this lynch comes out. I like this plan, although there is no reason to vote on the compvig just yet. We can see how the lynch turns out first. I've already voted, but in an effort to spur things along ##Vote DarthTheinAn## | ||
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That means to get 7 we need Zona, Opz, Falcynn(where did you go????) and Foolishness to all vote in favor of Darth. If Darth IS mafia and one of those 4 are mafia, then they can stop the vote from going through. However, there is the chance that someone may be Floridian too, which could push us over. I propose that if Scamp, Citizen or JeeJee vote for Darth, then we hold off on voting them off the island. Prove your pro-townness and vote off Darth! | ||
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Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.) I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though. @Darth Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own. You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign. You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing. You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan' You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own) You did NOT vote for Sidesprang. you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town. On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T... You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look... | ||
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On May 07 2010 10:00 ~OpZ~ wrote: Voting Darth doesn't prove my pro townness...remember Darth wants me dead. -_- So if I'm mafia, and he's mafia, and he's drawing attention to me...but wait...if he's town and I'm mafia/town it makes me more suspicious?! OMG!! What do I do gais!!!? That part wasn't directed at you Opz. I assume you will vote for Darth because it makes sense to you. I don't really suspect you much right now. The pro-townness part was for those people who I most suspect are mafia. | ||
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On May 07 2010 10:02 ~OpZ~ wrote: or let him be mod killed for not killing...(Is that a bannable mod kill?!) We could just use that to our benefit....Ya dig? That's actually not a bad idea, although it really depends on the situation. There may be a time when we simply can't risk him being mafia and getting off a double kill. | ||
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Damn damn damn I really thought I had a shot at winning this. 2 for 2 on scum hunting makes me feel good though.Oh well, this has been insanely fun. Good luck everyone, hope you enjoy it! | ||
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On May 07 2010 23:15 flamewheel91 wrote: WHY DO THEY ALWAYS KILL RADFIELD :< Either way this last day has been funny. I really just want to see an SK win once =.= Also "lol". At least I made it past night one this time | ||
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Radfield
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My plan this game was to focus hard on hunting mafia. I really felt the only way I could lose was if the mafia beat me to it, so if I could eliminate the mafia I could cruise to victory. And if the mafia wasted a few shots on me, that just gives me more time to find them. If I got down to the last 5 or 6 people I felt I could win. There were better arguments for other players as SK, and eventually I could power the Floridian vote to win. As far as the medic claim, I really just had other things on my mind, and didn't really think it through. Qatol had said for whoever got hit to claim, so I claimed and went on with my post(I think I made 3 big posts at that time). And Foolishness, you really jumped on my radar with all of your doubting I got medic saved. I couldn't figure out why you would doubt so strongly my claim of getting saved. You happened to be right that I was the SK, but for all the wrong reasons. Thanks for hosting Ace, this was a great set-up. Hopefully you'll host another one of these soon. Good game to everyone | ||
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I think if there is a Mad Hatter it should definitely still have 2 bombs. Otherwise it's just plain worse then the Meth Man. I was kinda looking forward to picking Meth Man next game if I was high on the draft pick. | ||
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