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On May 05 2010 05:27 Bill Murray wrote:
zona all you are doing is appearing scummy to me
you don't want roleclaims which would very much benefit the town, and you want to ignore liars
I've already explained myself. Roleclaims allow the mafia and serial killer to target strong roles to kill, especially with one doctor out of the way. I entirely disagree with the idea that roleclaims help the town right now.
I also think it's a good idea for town power roles to lie about their roles (and only about their roles) until it is the appropriate time for investigators to reveal results. The time when a general roleclaim is necessary is only when the town is in dire straights and a mislynch will likely lead to a town loss.
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The copycat possibly getting weak doctor is important - it's not something that doesn't matter.
If we go with the prevailing assumption that the copy cat is mafia, the mafia now have a weak doctor. But a weak doctor for the mafia is as good as any other (non-paranoid) doctor for the mafia since they already know who not to target! In fact, it seems like it would be pretty damn useful for the mafia to have a doctor as the doctor can protect against night kills against mafia members - kills from the compulsive vig, the joat's shot, and the serial killer as well.
Now of course if the compulsive vig is mafia, then it's probably not as big of a deal, since the vig won't shoot his or her own team anyways. But what if the compulsive vig is town? Actually, I don't like where this leads...
If we have a town compulsive vig and the town votes on who the vig should shoot (making the target public) then it becomes simple for the mafia copy cat weak doctor to prevent the hit. And better yet (for the mafia), in this situation the compulsive vig gets put in a bad light after this happens because people might suspect the vig didn't follow the town's will when the town's target didn't die.
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That last paragraph, I meant it becomes simple for the mafia copy cat weak doctor to prevent the hit, if the town target was a mafia member.
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Alright - I'm here and back to vote. Looks like no better target appeared, so sidesprang it is. Counted things up quickly though and I think sidesprang is already at majority of 9 votes, from:
radfield
falcynn
citi.zen
hobbes
korynne
scamp
foolishness
johnnyspazz
opz
but just in case I've miscounted I'll throw mine down - probably just symbolic though.
[b]##Vote: sidesprang
We should all join the compvig vote now, though, so there's no ambiguity. From my quick read of the new posts it seems johnnyspazz is the leading candidate?
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crap...
##Vote: sidesprang
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Bill - if you're town, you need to work with us, your fellow town members in order to get rid of scum. Even if you identify scum, you cannot lynch anyone on your own, and since you can't use your own inventions, you aren't able to kill on your own either.
You've been examining other people's arguments for holes - for example, saying Qatol's number grouping argument wasn't a strong sign that he was town. Have you considered examining the arguments you make on your own behalf that way? After all, the rest of us should be reading what you say the way you are reading other players' posts, if we are to be careful town members.
You need to invent something that is clearly pro-town and useful only to town members. Why is this? Like others have said, you need to clear suspicion around yourself. You clearly know if you're town, but you need to convince us, and so far your arguments and actions do not confirm you, and you should realize this if you examine what we can see of what you've done the way you are examining other players.
The thing is - a mafia inventor would clearly bring benefit to his or her team by turning out guns and other destructive inventions. But if that inventor did that it would clearly draw the attention of the town to get rid of this inventor as soon as possible. However, if a mafia inventor didn't want the town to immediately aim for his or her death, the inventor could turn out ambiguous inventions or tools that benefit the mafia in smaller ways, but aren't as obvious when publicized. It's up to you to prove to us that this situation is not the case.
I really hope that you don't instantly react to any criticism of you and your actions by thinking or saying that the person doing the criticizing is scummy, but instead take steps to address the criticism. If you act in an obviously pro-town way that OTHERS CAN UNDERSTAND, then you could be one of the town leaders, given your powerful role. And if your goal is a "town circle" (I really don't prefer this term), it doesn't necessarily have to rely only on PMs. A "town circle" is simply a group of players who know that each of the other players in the group are pro-town and work together to find and lynch scum. The reason they usually need to communicate in secret is that they're vulnerable if revealed to the public - but in this game, you as an inventor can take steps to counter that.
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I don't think we have the momentum to switch the compvig vote away from johnnyspazz tonight, but still, here are some considerations for the future:
Falcynn doesn't have many posts, and most of his statements are just questions about the game or agreement with plans others have posted. His excuse is that he's working on a film-making contest and thus is busy. The only interesting thing of note is his offer to sacrifice himself so that the alignment cop could use him to determine sanity, but nothing has come of that.
Almost everyone but Foolishness himself now acknowledges that he's the compulsive vig. We'll see tonight whether or not the compulsive vig will follow the town's direction. A lot of his early posts include doubts about the public roleclaims during the phase when most of the town was talking about them. Pretty abrasive too, but he's been like that in previous games. We'll learn more when we see the comp vig results.
Among the players still living Jeejee has few posts. He thinks he knows Hobbes's role as he was unable to get what he picked, and first expected something from it "he sure isn't doing shit with it" but then changed his mind:
"i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see.
atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue."
Actually given this statement I think it's JeeJee's job to keep an eye on Hobbes. And Hobbes should be thinking from his end of things if what JeeJee's saying adds up.
Scamp has been pretty accusative all game. He's noted Falcynn and Qatol as mafia on his "list" and at one point said "Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now." But he's also taken a lot of contrary opinions to the town concensus which I think in itself is a good thing, as we should be open to various possibilities and not just focus on one interpretation of things. One interesting thing that occurred earlier in the game is Qatol's insistence that Scamp pick doctor.
Opz hasn't said much recently...neither has Korynne, who was pretty active early on.
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On May 06 2010 12:34 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 12:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 08:22 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote:
I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? Sorry, I totally misinterpreted. A weapon that can kill SK or mafia is fine by me. I'm okay with Bill wanting to make it detonate if that player attacks him as well. But I don't see why it can't be a gun with bulletproof piercing rounds. I guess I'm just arguing semantics though. You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY. This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol. The original gun we were talking about could kill innocents. I hadn't thought of a gun that cannot kill innocents until someone else had brought it up. I'm okay with a gun that can't kill townies. Bill still has to give the gun to someone else to use. While it can't shoot him, he is giving it to someone we basically know has KP (though he hasn't acknowledged it). Thus he wants it to be able to detonate if that player shoots him even through other means. This idea also protects him in the future if he happened to give a gun to the mafia because if the mafia hit him, the gun blows up one of their members.
If we're going to randomly add arbitrary functionality to the invention - why not just make the bullets automatically home in on scum? Then we don't even have to worry about picking the good target. And let's not stop there. How about allowing it to penetrate bodies and continue onwards - so it'll hit more than one target! And the bullets might as well roleblock them at the same time, since that would kind of nice?
We might want to run a lot of these complicated devices through Ace before we dream up of more broken inventions that he'll never approve. If he's not even going to give us a +1 life invention that lasts more than one night, are we really expecting these to be approved?
A detective kit is probably the best viable idea so far. I'd hope for one that could find the serial killer as well as mafia but given that the specific serial killer advantage is that he or she appears innocent to cops, I don't think it's hopeful. Maybe a gunpowder detection kit instead. This would have the advantage of finding the serial killer as well as mafia, but would have the disadvantage of including town-aligned vigs in the results. But after the kit is used, the town can use supplementary evidence to differentiate between the two types.
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Actually the more I think about it the more I like the gunpowder detection kit idea. The tracker role is able to see the serial killer when the serial killer goes out on the kill, so there is a way for the serial killer to be detected - as long as functionality doesn't depend on the serial killer's alignment itself. A gunpowder detection kit will detect not based on alignment, but ability to kill - so I'm expecting that it would be able to detect the serial killer's guns.
A gunpowder detection kit - that's what I suggest the inventor invent.
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EPT
