World at War Mafia
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citi.zen
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On April 07 2010 02:52 haster27 wrote: Wait, citizen. Did you just replace infund? Yup. China baby, whoo-hoo! | ||
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On April 07 2010 03:08 JeeJee wrote: retaliate = nuking people that nuke you no idea why you separate the two as if they are different Right. | ||
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On April 07 2010 10:47 Iaaan wrote: looks like the town loses with tonight's hit. Doubt there is a 3rd faction. unless it happens to be 6:4 split, which i doubt. Ace would presumably end the game if there was no mathematical way for one of the parties to win. At least we lynched an anti-town player in Nikon I guess. | ||
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On April 07 2010 22:41 Fishball wrote: Ok, let me change the question a bit. What makes you think the nuke stealer would target one of you two, a variable, instead of someone else that can't transfer, a constant? Hell, someone like China have 3 nukes just sitting there. Also, what makes you think your nuke(s) are so much more important than others? This was a very odd exchange. I don't see why a pro-town player would seriously advocate ~OpZ~/Abenson post on the forum how often they can transfer their nukes. Then you try to deflect and start talking about why anyone would steal their nukes. | ||
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Listen up, I am France, a Tracker. One of my abilities is to track who visited who at Night. I used this ability on Caller during Night. Results: Caller visited Meeple last night. Meeple ended up dead. ##Vote Caller | ||
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On April 08 2010 03:43 Caller wrote: Okay, that does it guys: I am actually Japan. I have no antinukes left, for the record, because I shot down the one that RoL launched at me. You may be wondering why I was acting all mysterious and suspicious throughout the entire fucking game. That's because I knew that if I claimed Japan and /or made myself not a lynch suspect, I would definitely get night hit and that means I wouldn't be able to figure out if I was insane or paranoid. Which, of course, means that my checks would turn up diddly squat and be completely useless. We still got this: Mafia KP is one per night. There clearly are no more than 4 mafia left. Therefore there have to be at least 5 townies. If we hit a mafia every night, we win. SK is dead so KP is down to one for lynch. HOWEVER: I can now say that I am officially Insane. Now consider: I checked citi.zen last night and he came out town. That's right, town. Which means that I am insane and that therefore he is scum. There's our lynch for today. Last minute attempt to save face. Too bad you're not making any sense. On the plus side, your post makes it 100% clear to me you're red, no need to second guess myself :-) | ||
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On April 01 2010 11:18 Caller wrote: Well, gentlemen and woman, my idea of coming clean has been most rudely interrupted. I am Israel, an Alignment Cop. The reason that I have barely said anything all game thus far is because any country's leader that opened their mouth died in a nuclear fire along with their many innocent civilians, as all can very clearly see. I didn't think there was any need at all for me to endanger my people's republic before my intelligence agency managed to get even one check off, so I figured the best thing to do was to say nothing. If people suspected my people of being conniving Mafia, then all the better, as by hiding among outsiders have the Jewish people survived for this long. Basically, I have the ability to see whether or not someone is Innocent or Mafia. I checked Nikon last night, because there were numerous suspicions among the people for his odd posting strategizations. But for some reason my checks had resulted in the determination of the role of meeple instead, and he, to my horror, was Mafia. I'm guessing that this odd switching of roles must have something to do with that blasted bus driver role that flamewheel had emplaced in his game. I was initially going to reveal the people's will earlier today. But having saw that meeple was an ambiguous cop, I decided that it would be more effective for me to retreat and allow the intelligence agency to collect more datath. Firstly, if the Mossad were sane, that would give me result that meeple was in fact an innocent. The fact that he came out as a red scum implies that I am either insaneth or paranoidal. He can't be allowed to get away with this yet another time - a missed lynch = game over. Rock the vote! | ||
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Firstly, Infundibulum claims Paranoid Gun Owner. This is a very powerful role as it prevents people from visiting you at night without death. Now, because you want to draw mafia hits as it’s a free kill, in addition to preventing blues from being suspicious and checking you out, you take an active role in town discussion. Instead, both you and Infundibulum just kind of sat on your ass and only came out to defend yourself from allegations, otherwise you just kind of hmm de hmmed while other townies died. The paranoid trait does not prevent anyone from visiting me at night. In fact your lies are so transparent it's sad: you yourself claimed you just visited me and I turned up town. The other effect of Paranoid Gun Owner is that it’s a deterrent to all blues to visit you, including DTs . At this point in the game, I was like why the fuck not, check him out, it’s almost over anyways. The very fact that I’m still alive and came out with a check means that you cannot possibly be the Paranoid Gun Owner. See above. As a paranoid gun owner I can nuke people who nuke me. I cannot deter people from visiting at night - as you (supposedly) should know. Thirdly, your entire defense has been a by-the-book chainsaw defense (meaning you attack the other person instead of pleading your innocence). While this is not a hundred percent trustworthy, it can be a scumtell, especially when other people defend you in a similar fashion. ROFL - but but but - I accused you first, right after Ace's update post. So if anything, YOU are trying out the "chainsaw defense". I think this is a generally a really bad "tell" - but this case it helps point out yet another failed argument in a magnificent post. Good job. Fourthly, your posts have been “I need to catch up to the game and do reading, blah blah blah.” This may be valid but usually these posts are just an excuse for inactivity. If you’re innocent in general, and ESPECIALLY the Paranoid Gun Owner, you should just start firing away at everybody and hoping either you get mafia to slip up or you cause mafia to put a hit on you. You again fail to understand my ability - see above. As to the activity levels: I have read summary posts, and all of Fishball's posts, since I thought he was... fishy. After doing that, you came up as the main red contender. Pretty clear cut stuff, many others outlined the case. I said so after the day post above. I voted. I think I did my job. Can't speak for Inf, but from what I've seen he seemed to be doing a decent job as well. You and Infundibulum have done neither, instead preferring to AFK your way to victory. This is a valid strat as paranoid gun owner to counter blue sniping. However, you don’t fucking CLAIM paranoid gunowner if you’re doing this strategy. In other words: a) Both of you contributed nothing b) You have a way to deter night visitors through your claim c) If you truly are Paranoid Gunowner then you are playing your role terribly and letting mafia blue snipe no problem. Why the fuck would you roleclaim that shit AND pretend to be a blue? d) My check shows you as innocent and since I checked meeple (blue) as red, that means I am insane and you are red. And because I visited you and I’m still alive, you clearly cannot be the Paranoid Gunowner. See my answers above - you are repeating illogical arguments. It ain't working - next time at least try to make sense. And haster, your entire post is a great example of Mutual Chainsaw Defense (scumtell). Rather than show why citi.zen isn't scum because of his reasons, you attack me because "It's obvious that Caller is scum." Really now? For future reference: I have no idea what haster's alignment is, nor do I think there is a link between you/him/myself. In other words, I am not comfortable assuming he is green after your lynching. | ||
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On April 08 2010 05:03 Abenson wrote: Alright, ~OpZ~ didn't die. So... I think he is at work right now, but I want to release some of the PM's he sent me. We feared that he would be the one to die today, and he sent me a bunch of things/thoughts for me to post if he had died. I think i'll let ~OpZ~ himself explain, but if he's busy i'll just post the PM's We need to think this out. ##NUKE: ~OpZ~ Eh? I can't wait for the explanation... | ||
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Caller is weaving another complicated and incoherent story to get out being lynched. Remember how he made up a bus driver and claimed Israel after the (now dead and confirmed) tracker caught him visiting meeple the night he was killed. Now he is making up his own rules quoting other forums to justify his own idiotic words. Look, lynch me if you want and lose the game already. Caller is so obviously red that you deserve to lose as a town if you can't see that at this point. Nothing left to say. | ||
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On April 08 2010 09:27 ~OpZ~ wrote: I think I've previously said my feelings on this. Want what are you talking about voting you out because you advocated Nikons death? I'm not voting you out, I'm voting citizen out. What kind of statement is that Haster? Are you citizen? Terribly wording maybe, but I've done said you seem shady as fuck several times. Then citizen pops on backing everything you say? Making the same arguments? Honestly, Caller could damn well be red. I've made plenty of arguments to justify why he would be red. But I'm also severely suspect as you, and YOU ADDED TO MY OWN EVIDENCE AGAINST YOU, by saying the mafia role blocker MAY NOT BLOCK so one of his fellow MAFIA can claim to have been blocked. So you think Haster is suspect, then promptly go on to vote for me. Good job. Oh wait, it's because of the evidence: Infundiblum...He's come and popped up being helpful and gets banned. I didn't like his role. It doesn't seem very town to me, but Xelin's screamed mafia too so who knows.. Great fucking timing Rock solid. BUT WAIT, there's more: Caller said he role-checked me at night, while at the same time claiming I can't be checked, err... have a role which deters checks because I can retaliate. Of course, Caller is still very much alive, there was no retaliation. As I've said many times before, the only thing China can do is nuke those who nuke it first. Not... you know... kill those who check it. Let us not forget the final piece here: Caller's supposed check came out town, which must mean I am red, of course! In summary: nothing Caller said made sense (surprise). Not only that, Caller is a serial liar, who visited meeple the night he was killed and tried to remove suspicions from himself inventing a bus-driver + role claiming Israel. Don't even get me started with the seesaw defense crap argument he brought up, or the quotations from another irrelevant forum. All that aside, Caller is red so it's OK for him to do everything he can to get out of being lynched. He is doing a decent to very good job. On the other hand, OpZ buddy, you had better be red too. I know everyone thinks you are confirmed town, but if that really is the case this is just about the worst show I've seen in these mafia games. | ||
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On April 08 2010 11:23 Iaaan wrote: so, just my own little thoughts from my own point of view: caller checked d3 and he showed up red. thus, if we believe that caller is town, we have to believe that d3 is town. so, with opz and abenson being confirmed as townies, and then myself, caller and d3 being townies to, that leaves jeejee haster lmnop and citizen as mafia. Good argument. Please follow through and vote for me. At least it will end the game. | ||
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On April 08 2010 11:39 ~OpZ~ wrote: Caller claiming Japan makes him EXTREMELY less scummy. Just saying...If he would of saved himself, then claimed Japan out in the open, mafia would of hit him. He would of seemed extremely more pro town. Meaning a higher chance the mafia would hit him. Because Infund false claimed? Obvious. Not that hard to see. How would you deter the known cop to investigate you? Claim townie or claim a blue that can't be checked. Haster/Infund Insane Cop. Terrible argument, you need to reread the thread. Meeple came out red. D3 came out red You came out Town. Meeple is confirmed, and D3 will be confirmed. Here we go again: where has Infund ever claimed that a cop cannot check him? This is BS - the only thing I can do is nuke those who nuke me, as I've said multiple times. Do you want to find out? Nuke me! Please. Maybe we'll get a draw out of this. Caller's insane cop claim is totally untrustworthy. He only made it up as a complicated cover to exonerate himself from killing meeple. Let me refresh your memory (btw awesome tip on the "read the thread" suggestion!): On April 01 2010 10:35 Fishball wrote: Ok. I'm off work, done dinner, and caught up with the thread. First off, I want to point out my two top suspects besides Xelin. I would talk about Xelin later on. Nikon, for trying to extend the day for the N'th time with his last minute nuke, against town consensus (duh), at an arguably lesser target based on general consensus, Zona. Caller, lurking and laying low. Of course this alone wouldn't be enough for him to make the top of my list. Listen up, I am France, a Tracker. One of my abilities is to track who visited who at Night. I used this ability on Caller during Night. Results: Caller visited Meeple last night. Meeple ended up dead. Pretty much self explanatory right here. So Meeple and Amber was killed last night. We don't know if Mafia have more than one KP or not. If they do, the kills would easily make sense and Caller could very well be Mafia. Let's assume Mafia only has 1 KP, and the other kill was from a Vigilante or the sort. Now Xelin pops out and says: due to the reason: Now, to me, this is just simply wording, and doesn't specifically means anything. A Mafia can also kill a target and the target would be "found dead" in the morning, no? Also, as mentioned in the thread, Amber was already suspected by some players, why would the Mafia hit him if this was the case? If a vigilante were to choose between Meeple and Amber, most likely it would be Amber. My point is, regardless of how much KP the Mafia has, Meeple is likely hit by a Mafia, and Caller took an action against Meeple last night. Meeple ended up dead. Now, my ability only tells me who visited who at night, but doesn't tell me what the player did to the other player. Regardless, I'm 100% sure that Caller has a Night ability. Is he a Medic? Don't think so, as the Mafia would literally have to use 2 KP on Meeple to kill him. Is he a DT? Among so many "suspicious" players out there, what are the chances Meeple being checked? Coincidentally having Meeple die on the same night? Also, I consider my role like a mini-DT. Would there actually be a full DT role in this game? These are all hypothetical questions, but when you answer them all, the most likely scenario is that Caller is red and he killed Meeple. One thing I don't understand is Xelin. His actions is like asking to be lynched, like the Village Idiot role pointed out by others already. I don't know what Xelin and Nikon have against Zona, as the majority of the players is obviously not seeing what they see, but after the Nikon stunt, Xelin has the guts to do the same thing, again, almost immediately (6 minutes) after the Night post. It doesn't matter if you are Mafia or Town, this move is just retarded. If we put aside Xelin's "kill-me-please" plea, what should we do with Nikon and Caller? Nikon's move during Day is far more suspicious to me, and has yet to answer to his actions. Should town launch its first consensual nuke? THEN Caller claimed Israel. When that story didn't work anymore he claimed Japan. I don't know what more "proof" you need. Like I said before, I get Caller's behavior, I just really hope you are also red and doing this on purpose. | ||
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On April 08 2010 11:58 Caller wrote: By the way citi.zen, your entire "Martyrdom" approach doesn't help your case at all. The last time people have tried this approach (capek and iaaan) they were both scummier than the bottom of a boat sitting in water too long. In fact I would've used this as rationale for lynching you without any of the incriminating evidence, because no innocent would EVER make this kind of self-immolation without some kind of ulterior motive, which you clearly don't have. In fact, martyrdom is such a scumtell that I'm going to vote for you again. ##vote: citi.zen Another excellent point - congrats! This from last game I played in: On March 29 2010 00:58 citi.zen wrote: I am not even sure where to start. There are only 2 reds, but far more people not making sense - meaning that pointing out inconsistencies will not help me get the mafia. Can't congratulate the mafia, this is primarily the town's own doing. So screw it, there is no more I can do here. Go ahead and lynch me. and... On March 29 2010 10:23 citi.zen wrote: Parting words, while I am still allowed to write them: don't let Ace get away with this. Don't buy his illogical "no vote" argument, and don't let him say "hey, YOU voted for citi.zen, I wanted RoL all along" - he was always going to switch if needed. This passing of the blame is exactly what he's done with Vivi - go back and read the posts. GL town. Of course, I was green in that game too. Comrade Caller is on a roll. Not only did he miss completely with the "seesaw defense" (since I actually attacked him first), now he clearly right about the "martyrdom" approach - such a sure scum-tell. | ||
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##Vote citi.zen GG town. | ||
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On April 08 2010 14:31 Elemenope wrote: All I can say is: rage much? I don't know who to put my vote on. On one hand, we have Caller who has been relatively inactive and seemingly full of scum. Yet with this claim and the night kills up until now, his action does seem to make sense. If he seemed like a viable lynch target, why would mafia bother to hit him if they can get the town to waste a lynch by lynching him? Unless someone wants to directly counter his claim with a Japan claim. Then we have Citi.zen/infund who claimed Paranoid Gun Owner, but then says that the role consists solely of nuke-retaliation, which means the main point around the PGO ability has been taken out - hence, it shouldn't even be called PGO anymore. I'm more leaning that citizen/infund were lying because of that role point. Nikon claimed Veteran, was caught in a lie, and he ended up anti-town. China's ability to launch only retaliation nukes doesn't even seem like a PGO claim at all, I don't see why infund/citizen would claim as such unless it was to avoid night checks which can make sense. The whole nuking thing just seems more of like a nuke restriction, similar to a post restrictions in other games: just to be a hindrance for the person. I'll see what happens though for a bit since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time to mull things over. You are also correct: everything makes sense except for Inf's role-claim. Meeple's death when Caller visited him was a coincidence, as were many other things Caller has since managed to perfectly explain by changing his story every day. Even his behavioral analysis was spot-on every time: I was trying to defend myself by accusing him, even though at that point there were no accusations on me. Not to mention the martyrdom - that's a clear sign of a mafia, as seen in prior games. So don't bother thinking about any of that - it's cool, just vote. OpZ told you to, and he's confirmed town, right? Just do it - these guys are legit. | ||
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On April 08 2010 15:01 ~OpZ~ wrote: We're gonna have a few nukes in the air. I'm not letting the mafia weasel their way out and get Caller lynched. Haster and Citizen's arguments are complete shit. You, me, and even caller himself have pretty much decimated each of their arguments....It's a really pathetic attempt. Citizen will probably remove his vote. I will extend until we have a majority. I am not dealing with one of these no lynch situations. I'd have Abenson vote and have it anti-nuked if I he were here. I salute your air-tight logic. And I vote you for LVP. Unless you are red. | ||
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On April 08 2010 17:19 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: sorry about getting banned guys. apparently there was some rules post in a thread, which i missed because it was in the middle of some page and not bolded or anything. and thus i got upset at ignorance and broke the rules. big thanks to citi for stepping up and substituting. I guess the one piece of good news is you did not get modkilled. Good luck. | ||
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The good news is this will soon be over - we now have the votes for the lynching. Have fun - next time maybe try to think for yourselves. | ||
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I am not sues it will be for long - these guys have decided to listen to Caller's claim that we came up green so must be red and lynch us. Plus, they don't believe the role changed compared to what Caller told them it was on mafiascum. | ||
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On April 09 2010 01:24 JeeJee wrote: of course i would vote for citi.zen look at our track record, the one anti-town player we caught was because his role claim was inconsistent nikon claiming vet -> nuke reflected -> wtf? -> lynch nikon -> anti-town citi.zen claiming PGO -> no abilities -> wtf? -> lynch citi.zen -> ??? for the record citi.zen, if you're going to claim a special role in the future, at least make sure you say you have powers that a townie does not. ROFL - I wasn't even playing when the claim was made, how ca I have been inconsistent? When I started to play and someone asked, I confirmed that I can only nuke those who nuke me. Thanks for paying attention. Anyone want to nuke me? I can pretty much guarantee a draw. | ||
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for the record citi.zen, if you're going to claim a special role in the future, at least make sure you say you have powers that a townie does not. I did not decide to claim anything in this game - I cam into a situation where my role had already been claimed. So thanks for the advice, but it is completely irrelevant. You guys are too hung up on what you think the paranoid gun owner's powers are, instead of dealing with the serial liars in this game who got you into this messy situation. It is what it is, I don't know how to be any clearer than to tell you again Caller needs to be lynched after I flip China/paranoid gun owner - which will confirm for the nth time he does not have the role he claimed to have. At the very least promise me you will keep that in mind, since right now you won't listen to reason. | ||
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On April 09 2010 04:16 ~OpZ~ wrote: Gonna change your vote? Time's getting pretty close. Not at all. My death will demonstrate Caller is lying - since he said he role-checked me and is the insane cop. In fact, I would be suspicious of anyone changing their vote right now. This will offer you information, and perhaps the first confirmed red. My work here is done! | ||
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On April 08 2010 03:43 Caller wrote: Okay, that does it guys: I am actually Japan. I have no antinukes left, for the record, because I shot down the one that RoL launched at me. You may be wondering why I was acting all mysterious and suspicious throughout the entire fucking game. That's because I knew that if I claimed Japan and /or made myself not a lynch suspect, I would definitely get night hit and that means I wouldn't be able to figure out if I was insane or paranoid. Which, of course, means that my checks would turn up diddly squat and be completely useless. We still got this: Mafia KP is one per night. There clearly are no more than 4 mafia left. Therefore there have to be at least 5 townies. If we hit a mafia every night, we win. SK is dead so KP is down to one for lynch. HOWEVER: I can now say that I am officially Insane. Now consider: I checked citi.zen last night and he came out town. That's right, town. Which means that I am insane and that therefore he is scum. There's our lynch for today. | ||
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On April 09 2010 04:58 ~OpZ~ wrote: ##Vote Caller Why are you trying to save Caller by trying to get a no lynch today? Please go back to voting for me to clear things for everyone. | ||
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Now we're getting somewhere. | ||
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On April 09 2010 06:41 ~OpZ~ wrote: Where were you to further argue with me earlier? I would of preferred that. Honestly I have no idea which of you is mafia. Caller not being mafia pretty much hands the game over to town, right then and there. Almost everyone becomes confirmed. Sounds extremely nice. Now let's see if he's right. Citizen voters and would-be voters: Iaaan LMNOP Caller JeeJee I would like this to be noted. I would also like it to be noted all who didn't cast their votes. D3. Abenson, Haster, Myself, Citizen. Let's see where this goes after Caller dies. D3 cast your vote. Actually I did vote. On another note, read this bit: You may be wondering why I was acting all mysterious and suspicious throughout the entire fucking game. That's because I knew that if I claimed Japan and /or made myself not a lynch suspect, I would definitely get night hit and that means I wouldn't be able to figure out if I was insane or paranoid. So Caller didn't want to be a mafia target. Seems reasonable. Oh wait: On April 01 2010 11:18 Caller wrote: Well, gentlemen and woman, my idea of coming clean has been most rudely interrupted. I am Israel, an Alignment Cop. The reason that I have barely said anything all game thus far is because any country's leader that opened their mouth died in a nuclear fire along with their many innocent civilians, as all can very clearly see. I didn't think there was any need at all for me to endanger my people's republic before my intelligence agency managed to get even one check off, so I figured the best thing to do was to say nothing. If people suspected my people of being conniving Mafia, then all the better, as by hiding among outsiders have the Jewish people survived for this long. Take notes kids: the way to not make yourself a target is to fake-claim to be a cop! Comrade Caller is no fool, da? | ||
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2. Caller lied repeatedly in this game. Some of you continue to defend him irrationally. I was willing to get lynched to get the lot of you revealed. I still am. Nuke or lynch me. Then lynch Caller and those making nonsensical arguments on his part. 3. A number of you keep pushing the fact that the PGO has the power to kill ANYONE who visits them at night. I repeatedly stated this is not the case. However, Caller et al apparently did not know this. So they did not attempt to steal China's nukes for fear of getting killed. They chose the lynching path instead. 4. I now see the retarded claim that "since nobody claimed Israel or Japan, Caller must be legit". Quite the opposite Sherlock: he can't be two countries at once, so at least one claim is wrong, pretty much proving that the lack of a counter-claim means very little in this game. We don't have a list of countries or roles. Yet you keep bringing this up again and again. 5. The same people who bring up #4 never once brought up the fact that nobody counter-claimed China. That defense apparently only applies to Comrade Caller, not me. Perhaps you'd care to tell us why that is. | ||
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On April 09 2010 11:07 JeeJee wrote: ok. before i do though, i want to make sure we're on the same page with this point (can't believe i'm arguing with a mason but anywho..) you agree he claims it in the same day, great. therefore, he did not intend to entice a nuke steal, correct? then, what was the point of changing his claim? recall the circumstances: you FoS citizen, he replies with "I'm PGO". As a response to a FoS to deter DT followup on your FoS, this makes perfect sense. As a way to entice nuke steal it does not. Are we on the same page here? For the sake of clarity, these are the posts Infund made about our ability: I can roleclam for you guys as well, though it's nothing exciting: I am China, pro-town, and have 3 nukes. However I am not allowed to nuke anyone unless they nuke me first. And you said it yourself, the fact that you think my ability (named Paranoid Gun Owner, btw) "sounds" like a mafia ability doesn't mean squat. And finally: Clarification: I am only allowed to make retaliation strikes. Yeah, it would be awesome (kinda) to be able to nuke 3 people at once, but that's a no go. Nothing about not being DT check-able or able to kill any night-time visitor. There was no "second" role claim and no attempt to deter anyone from checking us. | ||
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On April 09 2010 12:25 JeeJee wrote: sorry, it seems i have missed communicating one very important point. we have confirmation that citizen lied. we do NOT have confirmation that caller lied (at least not yet). This is what boggles me the most here, that we are voting for a 'maybe' over a 'for sure'. let me elaborate -- citizen claims his ability is to counter nukes. Then he claims his ability is PGO. One of these is a lie. We know this. You bring up the point that he may have left out the piece about killing@night because he wanted to entice a nuke steal. I pointed out how this cannot be the case because he did not wait for night post before he changed his claim. also actually i believe this would paint him in an even worse light if it were possible -- after his claim of PGO, someone presumably visits him at night and does not die. This would just mean another lie. Townies have no reason to do the lies that citizen has made. The ONLY reason that I can see, you have outlined: enticing a nuke steal. However, the events that transpired after rule out this possibility completely. In fact, they actually fit in very well with a mafia choosing to claim PGO in order to stop your FoS from becoming a reality. maybe you actually nabbed a mafia there and caused him to panic? oh and finally, one nuke was stolen from me also, re: this latest replacement, i guess this means waiting for a d3 modkill isn't an option, so we are back to discussing citizen vs caller. i'm trying my hardest to explain my position, and i'm pretty sure my judgment is correct here. No - you do not know I lied. You assume it, based on what you think the definition of the paranoid gun owner is in some other game. Read every post myself or Inf made - we never claimed to have the ability to hit any night checker. Ever. Had we intended the role claim to be a deterrent for a DT you think we might have mentioned that part, no? Also, you claim you do not know Caller lied yet? So you think he is both Israel and Japan? And you find it rational for him to claim DT to "stay low and not be a mafia target"? Please explain to me how this laying low business works - I thought the mafia wants to kill DTs, no? The longer this is going on the more I think you are red. A rational person would not miss these simple facts and constantly try to distort them. | ||
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On April 09 2010 13:31 Iaaan wrote: anyone considered lynching haster or LMNOP? (: afk more sorry I can't be more active ##vote citizen because people who are probably townies are voting for him and they probably need my vote ^^ You already voted for me and your vote still counts. Thanks for the new arguments though. Are you saying Caller is likely town but Abenson and OpZ are not? Which people are we talking about exactly? | ||
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On April 09 2010 22:08 JeeJee wrote: reading the thread will prevent posts like these i'm afraid but as long as we're absolutely clear, i will adress this too, although I really shouldn't have to. However, at this time, nobody can afford being misinformed so I will lay this out too. first of all, understand the context in which this post was made. me and opz were debating about caller, and i had fully addressed my suspicions of his lies about his anti nuke arsenal as well as his country. would you like me to pull up the post? after this was taken into account, i stated, as I am stating here again, that the main reason I suspect you over caller is because you lied about your role whereas caller did not. (at this point actually opz brought up that caller may have in fact lied about his role too, but upon further inspection this was not the case -- if it were, my entire position would have to be rethought. I have already said many times caller's claim is sketchy and I would lynch him in an instant UNTIL you showed up. This is very important which is why I'm stating it for the umpteenth time so we're all on the same page here) The other bit about the PGO -- it is an assumption, and a perfectly valid one. Just as a vigi kills at night, so does a PGO kill his visitors. It is what the role is about. It's not just mafia scum. Every single mafia site agrees. ECNet: http://wiki.ecnet.org/wiki/Mafia Neoseeker http://wikiguides.neoseeker.com/wiki/The_Mafia_Game/Army_Veteran Mafiascum http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Paranoid_Gun_Owner Would you like me to keep going? This isn't a matter of opinion. You lied about your role. Your entire argument is based on the belief that Infund lied when he mentioned the name Ace gave to his ability. It's impossible for me to justify something Ace did - he defined people's roles as he saw fit in this game. At the very least admit that neither me nor Infund explicitly claimed to have the ability to kill any night visitors. All we claimed, consistently, was to have the ability to retaliate. There was no explicit attempt to deter any DT from role-checking. | ||
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On April 09 2010 22:33 JeeJee wrote: I disagree. if I were to claim vigilante, I don't have to specifically claim that my role is killing people at night. There may be game-specific restrictions like I cannot kill on the first night, or can only kill twice or whatever, but either way I can kill people at night. Likewise for PGO -- by stating you are PGO, you are explicitly claiming your ability to kill any night visitor indiscriminately. maybe the restriction is you can only do it once then revert to townie (a popular variation) but the underlying mechanics is always there. as a sidenote to opz -- i have only been skimming you versus lmnop for the reason that if my judgment is correct here, there is at least one mafia between lmnop/iaaan, and very likely both of them are. am i reading this correctly, did he accuse you of being mafia? The vigilante comparison is not entirely fair, but yes, in the end I wish Ace would have chosen a different name for my ability. In the end it would be quite unfortunate it the town lost because of it. On another note - you continue to say Caller is being consistent. Please explain how his his claim that he was trying not to be a mafia target and lay low squares with claiming to be a cop, twice. Why did he think that would make him less of a target? | ||
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Anyway I guess the game ends today. I'm not extending again, and no lynch = mafia win. GG guys. I'm going to work at 12. And I said that last night. Choke. Wait, don't we have the votes for Caller already? Can we get an official count? | ||
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On April 10 2010 00:37 JeeJee wrote: to be fair, i'm not saying caller is being consistent. I'm saying he's the lesser of the 2 evils because at least he hasn't provably lied about his role in a way that doesn't make sense for a townie but does make sense for a mafia trying to dodge a FoS placed by opz or, would you like to pull up my relevant posts so that i may have a clearer idea of what you mean by saying "you keep saying caller is being consistent"? like i said, nobody can afford being misinformed here How does it make sense for a townie to claim Cop so as not to be a mafia target? This only makes sense for a red - since they are not afraid to be killed at night. | ||
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On April 10 2010 00:43 ~OpZ~ wrote: ##Vote Elemenope He is mafia by numbers. If Caller is truthful, Elemenope can't be mafia unless their is three mafia, and we continue to accept JeeJee as Town. Remember, Caller "checked" D3. Abenson, Myself, Caller, D3, JeeJee If Haster and Citizen are right Citizen, Haster, Abenson, Me, JeeJee Otherwise we are not in a lylo situation and can be wrong. We have the damn votes, why are you saving Caller? Don't let LMNOP distract you - wtf. | ||
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On April 10 2010 00:47 JeeJee wrote: yeah i'm ignoring it on purpose. what value would it have here? pretty sure the only reason i'm alive is because I hinted I am triggerhappy or hatter type role. whether I am that role or plain jane or even something random like a medic, doesn't affect my logic and shouldn't affect your decision making with respect to said logic. remember, if we are in 5-4, we will be in lylo for the next four days, not just today assuming no extra kp. if mafia want me to shut up, i'd rather have them debate about it. Is this in relation to Caller's cop claim? What are you replying to? | ||
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On April 10 2010 00:57 ~OpZ~ wrote: "as a sidenote to opz -- i have only been skimming you versus lmnop for the reason that if my judgment is correct here, there is at least one mafia between lmnop/iaaan, and very likely both of them are. am i reading this correctly, did he accuse you of being mafia?" Good, then you don't mind lynching LMNOP with me? Citizen, we need 5 votes for the majority, not 4. And if lynching LMNOP will convince JeeJee, I'm fine with it. I've done explained he can't possibly be town no matter what if this is Lylo The only problem is this: I am 100% sure Caller is lying, since he claimed to have confirmed me as a red, which I obviously know I am not; I was and still am comfortable getting lynched myself to give the town indisputable information about Caller and his fake claims. LMNOP I cannot be certain of. Probable perhaps, but far from certain in my book. | ||
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On April 10 2010 01:20 JeeJee wrote: this still stands unanswered by opz, which irks me the most because this is what i base my whole argument on citizen's lynch about. it has been standing unanswered this entire time, even after i started ignoring all of my other points/queries in an effort to get your official stance on this one so there is no confusion with other points, yet somehow this still remains unanswered. please please PLEASE answer this. give me your official statement here. I have done my best to answer every single thing about my position and i believe i have done so. please return the favor by answering this one thing Well, your argument is actually two pronged: you point out my role seems inconsistent with your view of the PGO. You also say this is more inconsistent than Caller's play, and that my claim only makes sense for a red, not a townies, as opposed to Caller's claims. You thus want to vote for me instead of him. Keeping this in mind, please answer this bit: On April 10 2010 00:43 citi.zen wrote: How does it make sense for a townie to claim Cop so as not to be a mafia target? This only makes sense for a red - since they are not afraid to be killed at night. | ||
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Look at micro-mafia 1. I was in the same situation with Ace there. I was right there too. Of course, being right doesn't matter if you can't persuade others, so I guess I fail and Caller wins. Too bad for the town. Sorry, I am out of patience. | ||
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This lynching is not the one I want. JeeJee is right about one thing: when we have a confirmed liar we should vote them off. We disagree on who that is, and JeeJee's unwillingness to acknowledge Caller is at least as suspect and Inf/myself worries me and should be noted for future reference. At the end of the day I would favor lynching me or Caller over Elemenope. Get the votes for either and I shall join you. | ||
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On April 10 2010 04:57 JeeJee wrote: FUCK INTERNET LAGGINGP OST ALRDY first of all, one of the 'prongs' of my argument isn't that your role seems inconsistent with my view of PGO. no. again wrong. let me be perfectly clear. You claim ability X. then you claim role Y with ability Z. There isn't a matter of opinion or assumption here. I have outlined many times, google f'ing PGO if you so desire, i am tired of explaining this point for the umpteenth time. citizen has lied on his role, provably lied, and you don't give a damn. this isn't my view on PGO, this is definition of PGO. now, this lie (this provable lie) does not make sense if you are a townie. Period. it does make sense otoh if you are a mafia. this is why i am voting for you. and am upset i have only been able to convince iaaan of this fact. now onto caller's claims. again, i am distraught he isn't posting but that seems to be irrelevant now. his lies so far included lying about his country name and lying about his antinuke arsenal. both of these i have addressed and did state they look sketchy. however townies can lie with appropriate motive -- look at opz, he has lied several times and he's as good a townie as any, but this works because he had the right motive. however, citizen's lies DO NOT HAVE THE APPROPRIATE MOTIVE FOR IT from a townie point of view. moreover they are more severe and confirmed in the sense that he lied about his role. our track record indicates the only anti town player we caught was because he lied about his role! god damn i can't make it any f'ing clearer than this. and the worst part? opz has not addressed the very simple fact that citizen has provably lied about his role. this is what irks me and at this point this is the only thing i want him to answer. again i re-state: ##vote:citizen This is retarded. If you can show me a single time in this thread where Inf or myself said we can kill night visitors i will concede to being a "proven" liar. In the meantime your argument is based entirely on the belief that Ace used the same definition of the PGO role you expect to find in every game. That is it. Ask Ace to explain why he chose the PGO name for this ability after the game if you want - I can't tell you that. Your paragraph about Caller makes no sense, as usual. If you are willing to believe someone claimed cop so as not to be a mafia target I don't know what to say. Perhaps after the game, with a cooler head, you will see that for the absurd statement it is. | ||
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##Nuke JeeJee | ||
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Are we finally on the same page JeeJee? | ||
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On April 10 2010 10:25 Elemenope wrote: I don't know why mafia didn't follow the same strategy. Why don't you go ask them? Excellent. So then My nuke did not go through either, right? So let's do this the right way JeeJee - launch you nuke now. You go first, i retaliate. Let's go. | ||
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On April 10 2010 10:34 haster27 wrote: 1) The nuke can only be launched at Day. 2) You are an idiot. 1. You are right of course, I for some reason assumed the day was extended and Flame was talking about his second nuke. 2. Yes, that was dumb. @LMNOP - I hadn't read the posts carefully. Hence #2 above. | ||
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On April 10 2010 09:55 haster27 wrote: citizen, WE HAVE THIS SHIT SEALED. WE HAVE 100% CHANCE OF LYNCHING ELEMENOPE, AND CALLER WILL BE MUCH EASIER TO VOTE OFF TOMORROW. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM RESPONDING TO JEEJEE's PROVOCATIONS. THIS IS WHERE YOU BECOME EITHER MVP or LVP We don't have anything sealed. JeeJee is probably town but an idiot who won't listen to anything but himself. He will never vote with us because... he's can't get it through his head that there is any way I am telling the truth. So we can't even lynch fucking Caller, Mr. "oh hai, I'm going to fake claim cop so the red's don't hit me at night". A draw has it's appeal at the moment, while I can still force it. A missed lynching opportunity followed by something happening to me at night would be worse. | ||
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On April 10 2010 09:52 JeeJee wrote: he's a fucking lying cunt, he can't do shit you want me to bold it? ##Nuke:citi.zen Saved to quote in future games when I need to prove you are an idiot and I told you so. Carry on. | ||
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Regardless - if I live we can draw. Otherwise, town, pretty please Lynch Caller once you see my flip. Not a difficult decision. | ||
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(10:14:22 PM) Ace: almsot a lynch (10:14:25 PM) Ace: massive accusations (10:14:33 PM) Ace: busts out a bus driver fucked me over insane cop role claim (10:14:37 PM) Ace: and everyone nods their heads (10:14:40 PM) Ace: this is bs lol Pretty much, as I've said at least a dozen times since I started playing. No idea how anyone can believe such a tall pile of shit, yet they did, for days on end! The funny thing is, with him confirmed red, most mafia were going to fall pretty easily. So this was a very risky strategy in many ways, yet it paid off. GG reds, JeeJee MVP in my book. LVP - everyone on town who didn't vote for Caller. Seriously. | ||
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On April 10 2010 03:40 citi.zen wrote: I can't believe you guys are still not seeing that Caller is red. It's beyond me how he can have you believe one lie after another after another simply by changing his story after any new suspicion is shed on him. Look at micro-mafia 1. I was in the same situation with Ace there. I was right there too. Of course, being right doesn't matter if you can't persuade others, so I guess I fail and Caller wins. Too bad for the town. Sorry, I am out of patience. On this note I am taking a break from playing mafia for a while. I'll help host if needed, but will not play for a while. | ||
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On April 11 2010 08:38 Bill Murray wrote: caller for MVP obviously He actually made many sloppy mistakes but had great support and a most gullible town. Jeejee tottered that plausible deniability line much much better I thought. | ||
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Excellent use of the PGO thing to draw fire away from Caller, but I really think it wasn't fair to call it that. Or, citi.zen/Infund could've just left out the role name, since you should know it will draw that kind of fire... I know Infund regretted mentioning the name of the ability, even if it was just in parentheses, and at the time I doubt he was aware of the "usual" abilities associated with it. Ideally it would have been called something else, yes. | ||
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