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World at War Mafia - Page 4

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haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 27 2010 18:22 GMT
#1070
What scares me the most are that the anti-nukes used to shoot down these nukes are probably coming from "nukes are bad" Townie camp, meaning sooner or later remaining anti-nukes are going to be concentrated on the hands of "what's wrong with exploding nukes" Townie and Mafia. How the thing will turn out when that happens I don't even want to think about.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 27 2010 18:35 GMT
#1074
Good. Okay, I just asked Ace if one can "use anti-missile defense more than one time per day", and he replied "Yea if you have anti-nukes you can use those as much as possible if you please." So Bill Murray, do you have two anti-nukes that you can use to defend yourself and L?

Then send to PM to Ace like this:

##I use my anti-nuke to shoot down Versatile's missile toward L.
##I use my anti-nuke to shoot down Versatile's missile toward Bill Murray.

(being cautious here because I don't know why johnny anti-nuke did not work.)
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 27 2010 18:37 GMT
#1075
I mean that you send one PM with content "##I use my anti-nuke to shoot down Versatile's missile toward L.", then send another with "##I use my anti-nuke to shoot down Versatile's missile toward Bill Murray." so that even if Ace lied the first anti-nuke request works.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 27 2010 18:49 GMT
#1076
Okay. I see Ace changed the rule. Shit.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 27 2010 19:04 GMT
#1078
Ace// I sent you a PM "Oh okay. Also, I know the player is restricted to launching one nuke per day, but does this reaction apply to anti-missile defenses also? (as in, can player use his anti-missile defense more than one time per day?)" before johnnyspazz was nuked, and I thought you said yes or did I misunderstand something?
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 27 2010 19:19 GMT
#1081
???
I'm guessing anti-nukes and anti-missile defense is different then. I will never understand this set of rules.

Anyone else who have not fired anti-nuke in day 1, please intercept nuke headed toward L and Bill Murray.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 27 2010 19:34 GMT
#1083
lol okay. I see I was asking two contradictory questions at the same time

I agree with Elemenope in that these people should speak up about this situation.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 01:03 GMT
#1124
Wow Xelin claimed to be NK. I don't even know what is going on anymore.

Many are accepting his confession pretty leniently (which surprised me actually), so this is a food for thought. I find it highly unlikely that country such as NK, especially considering its abilities, do not have anti-town role; it is possible that Xelin, when ~OpZ~ pointed him out immediately with acceptable argument, panicked and tried to throw the suspicion off him by revealing himself, downgrading his perception from potential scum to one of those stupid foolish non-concensus-nuke-launching townies that is currently flooding the town.

Current non-concensus nuker list
Versatile
Xelin
tree.hugger

(listed from top to bottom the greater need to lynch)
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 01:21 GMT
#1127
On March 28 2010 10:09 L wrote:
Good fucking lord, chrome and/or TL is fucked right now. Couldn't get on in the last like 3 hours.

##nuke:Caller

Away you go fake missiles. Away you go.


Why don't you use FF? I assume those will work b/c I am having absolutely no problem with my Safari (mac). Also I think you can stop breathing down tree.hugger's neck for now- there are too many suspect & crazier non-concensus nukers present to bother about him right now.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 17:15 GMT
#1252
Okay, it's good time for town to take a deep breath, calmly think about what has been going on, and try to kick some Mafia asses. What I listed below are four unconfirmed Townies who had their vote on L prior to ~OpZ~ revealing his breadcrumbing. Now, three people out of L list has been (somewhat) confirmed as Townie; because of the nature of L bandwagon, and with now certain revelation that L is pro-town, it seems to me that there must be at least one Mafia who would try to get their vote in amongst the wave of hate-mongering Townies. We should try to use this to make our day 2 lynch because of all the suspects proposed, this seem to be the most concrete material we can work with.

* Fishball
-Is consistent on his hate against L

+ Show Spoiler +
He really hasn't made any noticeable moves, didn't he? Only impression I gathered from reading his 28 posts was just about how much amusement he is having from this anticipated-nuke-chaos and his hate against L -_-;;;

Since there is not much to work about him, I'll skip him for now though it is possible he is Mafia adopting lurking strategy.


* d3_crescentia
-Against revenge-nuke policy due to possibility of retaliation nuke
-Justifies inactivity in the grounds that "[after RoL nuked Caller] it has been a pissing contest between L and friends"
-Against using anti-nuke to save L and Bill Murray (reserve them for late game)

+ Show Spoiler +
He is another one of inactive player, with 16 posts. Above three statements seems to summarize his contribution in the thread pretty well. Once again, could be lurking Mafia like Fishball.

He has also rejected revenge-nuke policy and using anti-nuke, but I am not sure he has done because he hates L or because he is anti-town.


* tree.hugger (tries to nuke L)
-Against person with anti-nukes from stepping forward.
-Argues that if L is not mafia, he might be saved, while if L is mafia, he will definitely be saved; also states that this nuke might force L to be more "friendly and constructive".
-Reverates between attempt to answer L's statement and attack of his character.
-Declares his intention no longer to nuke
-Argues against revenge-nuke policy.
-Shows regret about Versatile's nuke, said his nuke satisfied his intentions already.

+ Show Spoiler +
Now we come to the big leagues, cream of the crop; the people who already sinned against the Town by launching their illogical nukes against those who we now know as pro-town.

My first point about him is in fact pro-town move. Nothing to say about that.

However, I simply cannot comprehend his reason for launching nuke against L. It is basically saying nothing; so if L is saved, it could be from either Townie or Mafia, but because I expect townie to follow my words and not save obviously pro-town L from dying, he is Mafia? What?

Also I cannot simply understand how launching nuke against L will make him more "friendly". Even to newcomer like me, looking at all the opinion anti-L players have about him, L is more likely to rage more rather than calm down when the nuke is launched against him. Good analogy: Will 6-pooling IdrA to teach him a lesson actually teach him a lesson, causing him to be good-mannered player thereafter? Yes.

He being one of the unique players who attempts to criticize L in calm logical grounds, I cannot believe why he would launch something significant as nuke for such simple, illogical reasoning.

Finally, let me say something obvious just in case some player did not realize this:

Displaying willingness to concede to Town's will after launching nukes does not prove he or she is Townie. In fact, while angry Townie may keep trolling against the Town, it is mandatory for the Mafia to "turn over the new leaf" because otherwise, Town will be FORCED to lynch that person to prevent him or her from launching more nukes in rage. Instead, by showing desire to no longer launch nukes, they could possibly have respite for few days while Town lets off their collective sigh and try to lynch off other suspects.


* Versatile (nukes L and Bill Murray)
-"as far as someone nuking without town consensus, how about they get nuked by the person above/below them in the list? this would help in beginning to determine who may have what 'powers'"; later justifies this statement on the grounds that this stops multiple person from firing nuke simultaneously at the same time.
-Stresses there must be game plan before nukes are launched in order to preserve town order.
-Against using anti-nukes to save L (reserve them for late game), states that anyone revenge-nuking her will get counter-nuked as well.
-Nuke L and BM
-Launches slandering campaign against L
-Proposes that anyone agreeing with her is likely Mafia
-THE FAKE NUKE HITS HER.
-Declares her intention no longer to nuke.

-Suspect list
iaaan
caller
amberlight
nemy
d3_Crescentia
xelin
nikon
fishball

+ Show Spoiler +
I strongly believe Versatile is Mafia for several reasons.

Let me first point you to the first point I have against her. This is a direct quote. With second point, it seems like Versatile is pro-town player who is interested in keeping order at the Town. Yet at this moment, she is responsible for greatest chaos in this game and have caused death of two Town players. I cannot comprehend why she would metamorphosis into raging monster like this, only to "[turn] over a new leaf" when L is finally dead. Mafia players generally try to conceal themselves by following the atmosphere of the town (often vote bandwagoning); as same way, she could have tried to downplay significance of her nuke in all hate and panic caused by tree.hugger nuke launch.

Also may I state that the idea she proposed is highly illogical. It adds unnecessarily complexity to the revenge-nuke plan, and the loss from following this plan (Mafia finding out who has nukes) far overpowers the possible gain (prevents two townie from launching nuke at the same time unintentionally). Since nuke seems to Town's main and possibly only source of killing besides lynching (statement justified by the fact that even RoL's special abilities has been executed by means of the nuke), any move trying to find out owner of nukes and anti-nukes is anti-town.

Third, I certainly do not understand why she would have anti-nuked Bill Murray. I understand Townie taking action into one's own hands to get suspect he or she is 100% certain about, but why would one counter-nuke the person who is just trying to follow the protocol of revenge-nuke plan? Even if she is not Mafia, this move is so anti-town that I'll feel no guilt even if she flips Town after she is killed.

Only one thing initially hesitated me from lynching Versatile, and it is that BM's nuke flying toward her has not been intercepted. But once upon thought, Mafia will not intercept the nuke going toward her even if Versatile was Mafia. Versatile is non-concensus nuker whose crusade against L has been proved to be soundly wrong. There is no reason for Town to save her, and in fact considering how much non-concensus nuker Town has, Townie would be relieved that BM's nuke will take their hands off the matter of having to deal with killing Versatile.

Thus saving Versatile will be waste of anti-nuke b/c it will immediately make her clear suspect, and likely to be lynched off day 2. In fact I find that it will be more likely for Mafia to save her if Versatile had been Townie, so they can bandwagon against her day 2 and soak up the lynch.


Thus this is my current suspect list:
Versatile
tree.hugger
Xelin

Now this is my plan. We should NOT nuke Versatile or tree.hugger day 1 because there is possibility they will retaliate-nuke. We should avoid possibility of having more nukes pointed toward non-suspect player because with so much anti-nuke fired the availability of anti-nuke has decreased significantly due to one anti-nuke from player per day rule (BM who died with anti-nukes demonstrate my point pretty well). Due to his special ability I do not believe Xelin to have multiple nukes so:

Thus ~OpZ~ nuke Xelin day 1, then lynch Versatile day 2.

HOWEVER IT SEEMS THAT OPZ NUKED TREE.HUGGER JESUS CHRIST.

Okay, revision in my plan.

Do not shoot down ~OpZ~ nuke, if tree.hugger do not retaliate nuke somebody nuke Xelin day 1, then we lynch Versatile day 2.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 17:17 GMT
#1256
There is possibility tree.hugger will delay his retaliation nuke until the last moment in order to encourage someone to vote Xelin. Thus if someone shows willingness to nuke Xelin, I will launch fake nuke toward Caller 6 hrs later so that player can launch nuke against Xelin AFTER tree.hugger is bombed.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 17:23 GMT
#1258
XeliN// Okay. I agree that I just refreshed the page just to see what happened and homed on the NUKE POST. Hold off nuking XeliN b/c he might have made a point I find agreeable.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 17:49 GMT
#1265
Point 1: It has nothing to do with what you said, nor the "standard" behaviour of Mafia. I am just confused why you would reverse your position all of the sudden. I mean, I thought you tried to establish order in the Town, yet you suddenly started rampaging.

Point 2: The problem is if person A/B do not have nukes, they are going to say they do not have the nukes- which will continue on before we reach the person who has the nukes. However, at that point, the number of the players in the potential nuke-having Townies list for Mafia to pick from will have been reduced more than necessary. And yeah, ignore anti-nukes part.

Point 3: It is neutral move. It cannot be proved as either pro-town or anti-town move unless the alignment of the players because even if you flip Mafia, the list you posted will simply be WIFOM'd to death.

Point 4: I am assuming Mafia do not have that much anti-nukes here. If then, they will try to use anti-nuke more efficiently. Saving someone targetted by another one of non-concensus nuker Townie is more beneficial than saving someone who will clearly be under lot of suspicion after saving.

However, I agree with your post, which is why my plan does not involve nuking you day 1. I will push you farther down the lynch list when new suspect appears.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 17:50 GMT
#1266
On March 29 2010 02:40 JeeJee wrote:
also, one point that i believe hasn't been brought up yet that's EXTREMELY telling
versatile has been hit by a nuke. ok so she didn't die, but nobody knew the nuke was fake. or well, at least the town didn't. that means if verse is on the mafia team, the mafia would probably be inclined to anti-nuke unless they knew that verse had no more abilities or something. now since the nuke hit we can likely conclude one of the following:

1) mafia has no anti nukes
2) verse is not mafia
3) mafia was willing to sacrifice verse for whatever reason (i.e. verse was out of nukes)
4) mafia has some way to tell fake nukes from real ones
5) some 3rd party explanation

as verse is being brought up time and time again as a day2 lynch target, i thought i would bring this up as well to paint the whole story. comments?


Check my long post.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 28 2010 17:57 GMT
#1268
*XeliN
-states L being banned for 2 days is not good enough reason to vote for him.

Impressive pro-town move earlier in the game. Has nothing to say about it.

-advocates lynching rather than nuking non-concensus nukers.

Neutral move

-I agree with people voting L if in their eyes there is no-one who stands out as warranting a lynch.

-against using anti-nuke on Caller

Neutral move/not enough information

-Abstain on RoL vote

Neutral move

-Anonymous nuke Elemenope

Anti-town move; also, non-concensus nuking.

-"What does FoS mean? and no, I did not launch this nuke on you, I personally would be happy to see it hit though."
"Excuse me? I didn't even fire a nuke, and if I had I assure you I would have done it publically, i've already stated Elemenope as someone suspicious I wouldn't bother doing it in secret." (over-defensiveness?)

You kept lying about your identity, even to the point of over-defensiveness (second quote).

Also, food for thought:
Wow Xelin claimed to be NK. I don't even know what is going on anymore.

Many are accepting his confession pretty leniently (which surprised me actually), so this is a food for thought. I find it highly unlikely that country such as NK, especially considering its abilities, do not have anti-town role; it is possible that Xelin, when ~OpZ~ pointed him out immediately with acceptable argument, panicked and tried to throw the suspicion off him by revealing himself, downgrading his perception from potential scum to one of those stupid foolish non-concensus-nuke-launching townies that is currently flooding the town.


-Suggests that if tree.hugger is red, Versatile is red as well.

Neutral move/not enough information.

In fact, this could be useful if tree.hugger flips red. If we bomb XeliN and see he is also red, Versatile is slightly less likely to be Mafia.

I am not as sure about his scumminess, but we could get much information about Elemenope and even potentially Versatile by his flip. Of course, the decision to whether nuke him or not should definitely be made collectively. So should we nuke him, or do you guys think he is Town?
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 29 2010 14:46 GMT
#1332
Okay, I thought about it, and I do not believe high ToD plan is such a good idea. Just think of ToD as number of available nukes in the game- if we interpret it like this, there would be argument that we should try to save nuke for more surer, important targets rather than launching it meaninglessly. This is basically the same thing; though Mafia can launch less and less nuke as ToD increase, so can't we. I'm not sure, but we could find ourselves stuck and unable to launch nukes when we have confirmed Mafia due to raising ToD so high at the beginning. Let's delay launching nukes at least until we see how tree.hugger and versatile flip.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 29 2010 19:13 GMT
#1413
On March 30 2010 01:46 Nikon wrote:
Don't put words in my mouth for your own convenience, Tree.hugger.

Show nested quote +
On March 30 2010 00:43 Zona wrote:
I promised Ace I'd play to win...but this is getting ridiculous. We have started shooting each other a lot like the town in Caller's game. Well, with the bonus of each daykill dragging out fo 24 hours.

On March 29 2010 20:23 Nikon wrote:
On March 28 2010 23:12 Zona wrote:
Post your plans, comments on plans, who you're suspicious of, what actions seem anti-town, etc. Plus posting isn't just to add to the discussion, but to allow the town to get a read on YOU. If you don't give us anything to work with, lurker scum can use you as someone to hide among. If you're town, that is.


And then there's

On March 29 2010 00:06 Zona wrote:
We have 3 nuke-initiators. If we get no further information I'm comfortable lynching any among them. But we haven't even hit the first night yet, why don't we at least wait to see what information surfaces before we talk about an event that's far in the future?


You're directly disagreeing with yourself. Based on this and how you've omitted various pieces of information in your nice big posts, I'd say that you're red.

This is not a disagreement. First part, I want you (and other inactives) to post something useful. Now you're posting at least a tiny bit more, good. It would have been nice if you had posted more before you were called out.

Second part, I'm responding to those who already saying "we should lynch player x next, we should nuke player y next" - I'm saying we don't need to fully need to commit to lynching a certain person right now when there's at least 72 hours more until the next lynch.

In any case, unless a person posting a lot constantly repeats the same damn thing and doesn't take into account what everyone else is posting, it's likely you'll be able to find some change in opinion.

Also - feel free to tell me what information I'm omitting, rather than make such a statement without providing any accompanying any evidence.

And it's interesting you immediately call me red for such trivial reasons. When have any of my proposals not been in the interests of the town? When others have pointed out flaws in them, they have been modified. The real scummy plans are those that involve launching nukes early. Like I've said time and time again, these early nukes have such high chance of hitting town. And it's not just me saying this is likely theoretically. We know RoL is town. Who did his nuke hit? Johnnyspazz, town. The real problem is that even Opz, with the best townie claim so far in the game, is supporting plans that hurt the town.


Well, what esle could I post at this point? Several people launched nukes, we have dead players already, NONE of them were red. Logically, we start lynching them, unless something extremely juicy pops up. I thought that's universally understood, however YOU posted asking to post future plans, and then YOU posted asking for more information. How is that not contradicting is beyond me.

Show nested quote +
On March 30 2010 00:43 Zona wrote:If I were mafia I'd be sitting back silently and cackling as the town kills other town members for me, not raging at the incompetence of my fellow town members.


WIFOM, was it?


Nikon, I don't endorse your action. You are simply choosing to nuke Zona- who contributed highly to the town- simply because there are some "contradictions" between the number of posts he made. Going way to overboard. Hell, I tried to point out why tree.hugger and versatile could be Mafia and tree.hugger turned out to be green. I'm starting to realize maybe, yeah, this random endorsing nuke plan is bad yeah?
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 29 2010 20:32 GMT
#1421
This is my analysis on Nikon.

Actually, he did not seem to make any notable anti-town moves until he suddenly hurled a random nuke toward Zona like all non-concensus nuker does. I think he is being thought as more suspicious than others because most of the Town trust Zona as pro-town, perhaps even more so than L.

I have already pointed out nuking simply because of contradiction is flimsy reasoning. At least other people have some reason or grudge that made them launch nukes- to contrary, I feel that Nikon came out of nowhere when he started his criticism of Zona and soon followed it up with nuke. As in, contradiction can be scum-tell, but just that it is strange that single contradiction has given Nikon enough conviction about him being scum to launch the nuke.

"Let me spell it out for you. Five people are already dead, and it's only Day 1. All of them were town-affiliated. You can say that we're in a bit of a crisis right now."; This quote suggests that he is following the early town policy (extend the day as far as possible) while managing to sound hypocritical - because it is non-concensus nukers like him which pushed the town intio this position - at the same time. I don't know if I am overanalyzing this here, but this post could be attempt to paint himself as irrational Townie.

One thing I like to note is that he is criticizing people for focusing on inactive players. After we find out his alignment we can use this to possibly detect how active the Mafia team actually is.

Either way, I don't think I need to tell you that we need to lynch Mafia on day 2. This is critical since it will give us some groundwork, as we have no comment we with 100% certainty know had been spoken with anti-town intent.

I suggest lynching Xelin as lowest priority for now because he is just as likely to be third party as Mafia, and simply lynching anti-town role who do not know the identity of other Mafia isn't going to be that helpful at all.

For me, day 2 lynch should either be Nikon, Versatile, or one of the suspected inactives at very worst so we at least have idea what is general strategy of Mafia. I hope everyone else propose their lynch list so that when we finally go into day 2, we have concrete plan to follow instead of wandering aimlessly (followed by equally aimless nuke).

Also, like I said in the previous notes, we should stop using nukes for day 1 at least. We should not give any more opportunities for scum to fire a shot at us until Japan and Sweden is able to use anti-nukes again.
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 29 2010 21:31 GMT
#1435
On March 30 2010 06:27 Nikon wrote:
The nuke is a fake. Rest easy.


wait, what?
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
March 29 2010 21:39 GMT
#1442
On March 30 2010 06:34 Nikon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2010 06:31 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
On March 30 2010 06:27 Nikon wrote:


The nuke is a fake. Rest easy.


Are you FUCKING serious?

No, we cannot rest easy. You can claim the nuke is a fake and that's fine, but the fact is none of us know and you have instilled yet another dilemma into the proceedings of the town. Zona is one of our most pro town members, and you have gone and launched a nuke at him and may have already drawn out an anti nuke. If the anti nuke hasn't been fired then there is surely debate about whether or not to do it. If you are town then this is one of the DUMBEST things you could have possibly done. if you are mafia, good job i guess, but you're getting lynched tomorrow.


Nah, everything is under control.

[image loading]

Courtesy of Kennegit.
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