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On March 21 2010 02:32 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 02:23 L wrote:
Yeah, when the last hit came up 2 greens we were like "lol, game's over".
Fishball was trying to justify not hitting BC and Foolishness claimed medic, so I told him to protect me AND told other people about that.
If Mafia moved in on either BC or I we had them pretty much confirmed as liars.
Between the 2 double lynches and my bombs, we were going to pretty much clean the list that BC put up, and after foolishness' death we woulda had 2 medics out of suspicion. No, I was actually predicting the moves of the Mafia. I told you and BC saying they will not hit L, Incognito, or BC, and I was right, at least HALF right due to mafia hitting dumb targets (will explain in other post). This has nothing to do with my alignment, and was just solely prediction. You do realize I could have lied to you from the get-go when you asked me to bus BC and Tree.hugger, I can tell you "ok, will do" but not do it. There won't be a conversation at all then. Still typing up my long post.
You predicted they would put themselves into a dead-end situation?
We had a tiny list they could be on. With double lynch and 2 more DT checks, the amount that they would have undiscovered drops by 4 per night. With bombs we have another 1 time shot of 2.
If they didn't move on our DTs that night, we would have won.
And then we won.
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Well, unless they knew who madnessman was, it was pretty irrelevant who else they could possibly hit; including the medics.
On the plus side, though, even if they tried to hit him, you bussed him anyways. I also lied to you and put another medic on BC because I figured you were mafia bus. :3
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On March 21 2010 03:34 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 02:58 L wrote:
Well, unless they knew who madnessman was, it was pretty irrelevant who else they could possibly hit; including the medics.
On the plus side, though, even if they tried to hit him, you bussed him anyways. I also lied to you and put another medic on BC because I figured you were mafia bus. :3 It is irrelevant that you "lied" to me, because I never carried out what was requested. I only base my actions on the information that I know can be trusted. If you "attempting" to lie to me gives you a sense of achievement, that is quite... childish. I'm glad we don't share the same sentiment.
Woulda been relevant if you had contacted their team. By telling you that they had no protection on BC other than you hitting him woulda been a pretty balls to the wall homerun choice.
SEE THE TRAPS?!!!?! TRAPS EVERYWHEREEEEEEEEE.
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On March 21 2010 04:11 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 04:07 L wrote:On March 21 2010 03:34 Fishball wrote:On March 21 2010 02:58 L wrote:
Well, unless they knew who madnessman was, it was pretty irrelevant who else they could possibly hit; including the medics.
On the plus side, though, even if they tried to hit him, you bussed him anyways. I also lied to you and put another medic on BC because I figured you were mafia bus. :3 It is irrelevant that you "lied" to me, because I never carried out what was requested. I only base my actions on the information that I know can be trusted. If you "attempting" to lie to me gives you a sense of achievement, that is quite... childish. I'm glad we don't share the same sentiment. Woulda been relevant if you had contacted their team. By telling you that they had no protection on BC other than you hitting him woulda been a pretty balls to the wall homerun choice. SEE THE TRAPS?!!!?! TRAPS EVERYWHEREEEEEEEEE. You do not make sense. Me contacting the Mafia, telling them that BC would have no protection? Even Bill Murray wouldn't be dumb enough to pull this move. Read the long post. If you fail at reading, let me sum it up for you. I never thought BC would go down in Night 3.So again, your post doesn't make sense. Unless you are just posting gibberish...
You're assuming I knew you weren't in contact with the mafia. How could I know that? You were going around claiming unsided bus for a while, which is retarded. Why would you claim that over town bus? The moment someone who was mafia got a whiff of that it should have been easy to establish contact.
So let me sum it up for you:
If BC or madnessman didn't die night 3 the game was numerically over.
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On March 21 2010 04:37 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 04:35 L wrote:
If BC or madnessman didn't die night 3 the game was numerically over. Thanks for not reading my post. DUH?
You're a rage-filled donut. Did someone bite into your delicious creamy center today?
What you said was irrelevant. If you were town aligned there was ZERO reason to hold the bus back and you did, which made you pretty fucking obvious. I tossed a PM over to BC the moment you started giving me pushback.
It doesn't matter if mafia was stupid and threw away their chance at a victory. It doesn't matter if they lynched wrong.
Lets go over the scenarios together:
Starting point: If mafia don't kill a DT on night 3, they lose.
Scenario 1: You swap. Ok, good, mafia shots at our DT are redirected at their own members. We win.
Scenario 2: You're in contact with mafia and swap. I contacted you intentionally late in the night to make this possibility less workable for your collective team. You funnel a hit through the swap target and BC dies. You die shortly thereafter, probably via my non-foolishness bomb.
Scenario 3: You're not in contact with mafia and you don't swap: If mafia double hits BC, shit, we could potentially lose. If they don't, we still win.
Scenario 4: You're in contact with mafia and you don't swap: Medic soaks your hit, I laugh all the way to the bank.
So which would you pick as a townie? The one wherein you automatically win? Yeah, I'd have picked scenario 1 too.
Speaking of ego, you know why I asked your age earlier in the thread?
You sound like your 16, with a huge epeen, and types ":3" like an Otaku. Rage donut is rollin' arounnnnnnnnnnnd. :3
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Nope, isn't about ego or anything, its just to point out the difference in perspectives. I have no idea why you're going batshit insane over this, either. Calm down rage donut, your cream filling is getting sprayed all over.
The game wasn't won until the night 3 mishits. We didn't know if incog was legit, mafia might have known about the majority of our blues. We knew a few of them had fakeclaimed (lol 3 medics? serious?). There were plenty of uncertainties that we had that could have been exploited; while the rape train was about to run over the majority of their members, they still did have the bonus of having eliminated like 13 greens.
If mafia had hit a DT last night, then killed the other DT the night after without needing to double hit they would have had plenty of wiggle room to try and start up trains on moderately suspicious players. Out of the list of 10~ players we were cutting down, only 1 more would have been checked, and we would have had a potential 2 more days of missed hits if mafia did a good job in the thread which would have resulted in us losing.
Have one of them claim vig, have one of their fake medics pretend to stop a hit on a 2 hit night, etc. There's plenty that could have been done.
Third, once again, what is the point of this post? We both know that town have won at that point when no DT's and Medics died, hence the DUH.
That's kinda the entire point. If you knew the game would have been over given the results of the night, you'd have bussed if you were town. Period.
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On March 21 2010 06:02 Fishball wrote:
...Ok, one more.
I already said I would NOT bus BC even if I were town, and the reason why numerous times, feel free to ignore it.
You however, is saying that that's not the way how I should have done it, and I did it wrong.
So basically you are saying you are right, I am wrong, claiming superiority over me. Adding the word "period" in the end of your sentence, as an absolution, as in there are no alternatives.
...the tone you use, the thoughts you have ...and this is not about your ego right? Right.
GG Mafia XX.
No, I'm saying it was a perfectly good move for you to use as mafia, but that you became pretty obvious as mafia bus once you attempted to justify the move.
You basically admit that if no DT dies that night that the game's over, then justify not protecting the DT. From the town point of view, even if you think mafia won't hit the DT, why would you take the risk if the game is won otherwise? Just seems like cognitive dissonance on your part to attempt to validate a move that outed you fairly easily.
So are you wrong? Yes. Does that mean I'm trying to suck the confidence straight out of your soul in order to enrich mine? No. It means I'm pointing out that you made a mistake. That doesn't mean I'm 'better' than you. Doesn't mean you're 'bad'. Just means you made an error. Oh well. Life goes on and rage donuts will roll again another day, potentially throwing sprinkles viciously at others to dissuade them from biting down on their soft, tender rage based cream filling.
You're incredibly defensive, which was another of the reasons that our conversation last night made you pretty obvious. If you were town bus, would you really be flipping me off in pms when I'm obviously joking with you? Get over yourself. I don't give a shit if it was you or Ace or Ver or Qatol or Vivi or Scamp or whomever. The move you pulled was illogical from the town perspective.
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On March 21 2010 06:29 Fishball wrote:
Don't you see we are repeating this over and over, like for the 5th time or something?
Besides the part where I said I would have done the exact same even if I was a townie, and BC sharing my point of view,
- I guess you missed the part that I was planning to announce I am the Red Bus Driver, so no I didn't care. You can ask flames, or even BC at the end. It was my plan from the beginning as soon as I used up my powers.
- I never believed BC would go unattended. I'm fully aware of you guys were suspicious of me since Iaan brought me up. Hence in my other post, I said I only base my actions on my own information that I know is real.
- I flipped you because I don't like you. You were joking? This is the internet, how could I tell? Regardless it wouldn't change my actions. Also like mentioned before, I never did like you and never will.
- You say No, I say Yes. Repeat x infinity. Ok.
As you can see, all of this stuff I just said was ALREADY written. If you can't read carefully or comprehend all the information together, then I give up. I don't want to be quoting myself like five times in every post.
Side note, you say this is not about your ego. You might "think" so yourself, but your conscious says otherwise. A lot of different players, in different games have already pointed out that you use a commanding-I-am-right tone. That's your play style, I have no say on it, as I have my own style, but don't try to deny it when I'm pointing right at it.
Are you really that crabby that you got found out for a stupid move? Relax buddy. Donuts don't have a central nervous system, so you shouldn't have any anxiety at all. I'm sorry that my ability to be confident in myself makes you feel like I'm towering over you.
Your 'reasons' aren't reasons. They don't make sense. Winning the game makes all of them irrelevant from a town point of view. Since you weren't actually thinking about things from a town point of view its pretty obvious how you'd miss the 'take the obvious win' option.
In future instances when someone does something dumb I'll tell them that they are actually:
1) Special
2) Unique
3) A special and unique butterfly
That'll totally help them out.
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No i'm not. Try not to cry all over your pastrami on rye.
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haha omg i lol'd. but L, dont u get embarrassed repeatedly pushing for lynches of innocent townies?? i know i would. how old is quatol btw? Gotta break eggs to make an omelet.
In this case, I had to kill him due to pre-game goal.
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Town won because of it. Sup.
Angry I kill you every game? :3
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On March 21 2010 11:21 flamewheel91 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 10:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Flame, as fun as this was. Way to many blue roles.
When I flipped DT, and incog and L were confirmed as a bus driver and Hatter. I figured there would be one more blue at most (prob vet or second driver).
Having two dts, a med and a vet, and multiple drivers was just too much for this.
Mafia had to many things that could prevent night hits whereas town had equal KP in one night as mafia.
Was still fun, but way to many blues were in this game. Haha yeah--blue roles aren't that fun, in my opinion. Honestly though, I was just thinking about how one medic would have a hell of a time protecting people with bus drivers thrown in, which I believed would have led to blue sniping instead of the mafia always hitting green (I don't understand why the hitlists were as they were, but meh.) With the two public bodyguards, I had pretty much thought that the medic would be tied up protecting either important targets (like L) or the bodyguards (which is essentially what happened--L was protected first two nights and then BGs die.) On the first night, I was really surprised that L didn't get doublestacked, which would've been massively hilarious, or as I recall L saying to me in XVIII: "because we (the mafia) are such cool cats" when Ver was doublestacked. Also: Fishball for MVP, baller switch on d3 and Zona led to the mafia having a winning situation for the next period of time, and BM's lynch should've put them ahead (hmm and then during night two more townies hit?) The roles flipped how they did due to the random number generator, and being the type of person that accepts all kinds of luck (good, bad, otherwise) I just left it as is. Yeah, it was imbalanced, but some games tend to be. All in fun in games though, right? I had hoped that the three "leaders"--Incognito, BloodyC0bbler, and L would try to kill each other. [I actually recall an instant when I asked Incognito over ICQ "what's your next step?" and he replied "get BloodyC0bbler killed."] Mafia, threadwise at least, were very quiet... and that just lead to the town being more controlled. Once again, even with the imbalanced start the two bodyguards dying during the night would've put the town in a bad situation, since neither BC nor madnessman had released their check results threadwise. Overall, I'm just glad that people enjoyed the game, even though thread activity dropped pretty low due to things like death and spring break (mlah.) Sorry again for the imba setup, and I believe the next game I host will have no gimmicks.
Incog was easily neutralize by just not giving him new information. The inaccuracy of mafia hits heavily pointed away from him being guilty. BC was the target of a semi-trap to see if he would guess my role right. Since BC didn't really have any opposition in the DT claimants category, he was pretty much assured and incog's early compliance made him useless to kill.
The town wasn't in a bad situation due to the bodyguard deaths either because mafia would have been forced to double hit BC if they wanted a kill.
An extra medic and another mafia kp would have balanced the game quite nicely, imo.
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On March 21 2010 11:41 flamewheel91 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 11:34 L wrote:On March 21 2010 11:21 flamewheel91 wrote:On March 21 2010 10:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Flame, as fun as this was. Way to many blue roles.
When I flipped DT, and incog and L were confirmed as a bus driver and Hatter. I figured there would be one more blue at most (prob vet or second driver).
Having two dts, a med and a vet, and multiple drivers was just too much for this.
Mafia had to many things that could prevent night hits whereas town had equal KP in one night as mafia.
Was still fun, but way to many blues were in this game. Haha yeah--blue roles aren't that fun, in my opinion. Honestly though, I was just thinking about how one medic would have a hell of a time protecting people with bus drivers thrown in, which I believed would have led to blue sniping instead of the mafia always hitting green (I don't understand why the hitlists were as they were, but meh.) With the two public bodyguards, I had pretty much thought that the medic would be tied up protecting either important targets (like L) or the bodyguards (which is essentially what happened--L was protected first two nights and then BGs die.) On the first night, I was really surprised that L didn't get doublestacked, which would've been massively hilarious, or as I recall L saying to me in XVIII: "because we (the mafia) are such cool cats" when Ver was doublestacked. Also: Fishball for MVP, baller switch on d3 and Zona led to the mafia having a winning situation for the next period of time, and BM's lynch should've put them ahead (hmm and then during night two more townies hit?) The roles flipped how they did due to the random number generator, and being the type of person that accepts all kinds of luck (good, bad, otherwise) I just left it as is. Yeah, it was imbalanced, but some games tend to be. All in fun in games though, right? I had hoped that the three "leaders"--Incognito, BloodyC0bbler, and L would try to kill each other. [I actually recall an instant when I asked Incognito over ICQ "what's your next step?" and he replied "get BloodyC0bbler killed."] Mafia, threadwise at least, were very quiet... and that just lead to the town being more controlled. Once again, even with the imbalanced start the two bodyguards dying during the night would've put the town in a bad situation, since neither BC nor madnessman had released their check results threadwise. Overall, I'm just glad that people enjoyed the game, even though thread activity dropped pretty low due to things like death and spring break (mlah.) Sorry again for the imba setup, and I believe the next game I host will have no gimmicks. Incog was easily neutralize by just not giving him new information. The inaccuracy of mafia hits heavily pointed away from him being guilty. BC was the target of a semi-trap to see if he would guess my role right. Since BC didn't really have any opposition in the DT claimants category, he was pretty much assured and incog's early compliance made him useless to kill. The town wasn't in a bad situation due to the bodyguard deaths either because mafia would have been forced to double hit BC if they wanted a kill. An extra medic and another mafia kp would have balanced the game quite nicely, imo. Or next time there will just be no power roles! PieC9 x2 go go go.
Might be good if people were active, but given our compressed timeframes most people kinda flake out. I've always been for giving everyone something they can do, even if its something small.
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On March 21 2010 11:48 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 11:34 L wrote:
An extra medic and another mafia kp would have balanced the game quite nicely, imo. Do you really think so? I do agree the extra mafia KP would have helped a lot, because it greatly reduces the number of days available to the town before losing, and thus the number of mislynches the town can afford (the number in this game is ridiculously high), but 2 DTs in a game where the protected elected officials can be checked is incredibly powerful. No only can 2 DTs check a significant portion of the game's players between them, but they can confirm each other and the protected mouthpiece they can then use.
Extra kp is massive and lets you double up on DTs to get kills. Playing smart would involve someone fake claiming something, then when the town finds out ask for a mafia bus claim to the person who's going to be killed. Then use a pseudo confirmed setup to give him orders; An IRC channel where no one admits their name except the bus, for instance.
At this point the moment you discover blues, you can bus them to randoms and siphon hits in which makes the medics useless unless counter counter bussed.
tbh, mafia might even be heavily favored in that format depending on how early bus contacts.
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On March 21 2010 13:05 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 10:56 Zona wrote:On March 21 2010 10:37 citi.zen wrote:
As I said before, I now think L's "playing style" is perfectly OK. It does come more naturally to some people than others, but in the end the "good" players in repeated games often make bad arguments or behave inconsistently. All that means is that "catching" him next time he is red will not be easy: playing like crap and lynching greens would be "consistent". I disagree. I stated this before, but I think that if a player who is town in a game makes bad arguments or is not being helpful in general to aid his or her chances as a mafia member in future games is not a show of skill, but instead shows a lack of skill, because this player is not confident in his or her ability to be helpful and appear town-like in a game as mafia. The player is essentially hurting the town (and his/her) chances to win when playing as a member of the town only to help his/her chances to win when playing as a member of the mafia. this. It's also why I say it's a good idea to lynch players like BM and Vivi early on because if left alive, they WILL make the town lose.
And if they're mafia they play the exact same way as if they're town: Inconsistently and illogically.
Its like some kind of braindead super-armor.
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nemY had already claimed medic to me at that point and he immediately told me his protection history, unlike the other two, which crossed him off the list in my mind.
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EPT
