EPTTL Mafia XVIII - Page 88
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
DoctorHelvetica Versatile Shikyo Decaf MasterDana Shockeyy Tree Hugger Nemy Quickstriker Dozko Madnessman Sidesprang Tredmasta 789 Johnnyspazz Opz Have fun, in depth stuff coming up. | ||
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
L, you're compiling all the quotes of the deceased? I would have done that myself, but no need for redudancy. I look forward to your post Ver | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 19 2010 10:39 Ver wrote: Oh yeah second call for roleclaims. I've already gotten 10, keep em coming. If you are innocent being early is in your favor since when role numbers don't match up the late guys look a lot more questionable, so don't delay! Why should a pro-town roleclaim to you? I understand there is reason to believe you may have been hit, but unless I missed something in my activity there is no way for you to prove that. You could be red. | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On February 15 2010 05:40 Phrujbaz wrote: I am confused about the rules. Is the game over if all of mafia from one family are dead, or does the rest of the mafia play vs town like a normal game? On February 16 2010 06:55 Phrujbaz wrote: In my opinion, clues should allude to which family a Mafia is from, or the game is impossible to win. On February 17 2010 03:07 Phrujbaz wrote: Ver PMed me but to be honest it seemed like a good town player hunting an inactive rather than anything out of the ordinary. I have him pegged as "good player" because of it, I wouldn't make the link to "Mafia". On February 18 2010 05:11 Phrujbaz wrote: by the way, Nikoner is Mafia. I can't believe none of you guys have noticed this yet. On February 19 2010 06:00 Phrujbaz wrote: This is a very tough lynch (as also evidenced by the large number of abstains). I think we shouldn't (yet) lynch anyone that has made at least some useful contributions. That means we should not lynch the following people: Ver Bill Murray Mystlord DoctorHelvetica nemY Zona did post a lot of text, but not really much useful. He seems to have a lot of time though, so maybe if we give him a chance, he will turn those walls of gibberish into walls of win. I do not think we should lynch him yet either. From currently voted for people, that leaves Faronel, Nikoner, and Xelin as acceptable lynch candidates, although I don't really feel enthusiastic about lynching any of them. Mystlord + Show Spoiler + On February 14 2010 10:48 Mystlord wrote: Some thoughts on what I've read (I might be forgetting some stuff): I think that clues are definitely important pre-Day 3, but we shouldn't lynch on them, rather they should be used to get everyone discussing. Lynching based purely off of clues is completely retarded early in the game because there's nothing backing anything up, and in a game like this, where we have a lot of variety, they could point to someone completely different, and we'd be none the wiser. That said, we should be getting everyone to participate in the discussion. There's nothing worse than inactives, which, as Ver pointed out, ultimately hurts the town as they look just as suspicious as the mafia, which leads to wasted lynches and random lynches. And as for L's suggestion to lynch Chezinu Day 1, I don't think that's a good idea. Last time that was tried (t_co), it absolutely did nothing. At the very least we need something other than "a lot of posts" for a valid lynch. On February 14 2010 10:50 Mystlord wrote: Ah ha ha I remember that. I think clues would mostly be concentrated in areas that actually describe somehow the killers right? I didn't take notice if that was the case at the end of the last mafia game, but I believe that was how it turned out. On February 14 2010 11:56 Mystlord wrote: Such elitism. Regardless, I'm still all for incorporating clues into Day 1 discussion. For instance, we now have a defense from you, which is good for building a profile, whether you're innocent or not. On February 14 2010 12:09 Mystlord wrote: Then what do we do Day 1? Sit on our asses and come up with overall plans that have undoubtedly been said already in other mafia games? On February 14 2010 14:55 Mystlord wrote: Ok cool this is good for us. All we need now is more people joining in... redtooth: I don't think that using "correctness" from previous games is good for anything. Posting behavior, like Ver used, is fine, but whether or not a person is correct doesn't really account for anything. If you find an inconsistency or a consistency in how L is posting here versus how he has in the past, then you could build a case against him. Not otherwise. In any case, I am all for a mayor that is uninvolved in this entire mess. We've already had doubts concerning Ace, and I for one trust Chenizu as far as I can throw him, so we should begin narrowing our mayor candidates. After all, don't forget that discussion concerning who we should elect as mayor AND pardoner are just as revealing about behavior. On February 14 2010 15:03 Mystlord wrote: But you used it to justify Ace as a player. L used it in a general sense, and it was not a major component of his argument. If Ace is Mafia this game, then that argument makes no sense. On February 14 2010 15:44 Mystlord wrote: What is this, personal glory time? Makes no sense whatsoever. And I think BloddyC0bbler's statement regarding l10f has some truth in it. On February 14 2010 18:23 Mystlord wrote: Every high-activity poster other than Ace? And I wouldn't label Ver as high-activity... In fact, I think this is the first time we've had a serious accusation against him. And the "other godfather" slip is pretty big... I'm curious to see what's going to happen. Let's not forget the mayor elections in the midst of this though. On February 15 2010 10:25 Mystlord wrote: Wasted posts. It gets annoying and demotivates me. When I see a new page pop up after I finish reading a previous page, it makes me want to just stop... You know, labeling people as blue, red, or green is nice and all... but we should be concentrating on the mayoral elections. I for one don't want to end up putting a crap or mafia mayor/pardoner into office because people are just riding the bandwagon. Some people have brought up the point that we shouldn't vote citi.zen in based purely on performance in past games, and I'm inclined to agree with them. There is absolutely no reason why we should be taking performance in previous games into account unless we're using them to establish a shift in posting behavior or as a case example (such as Ver's usage when accusing BC and meeple and L's usage to draw a parallel between this game and another game). We should be extremely cautious, and I encourage people to give a more valid reason than "he served us well in the previous game". The question remains though: who can we trust? I have no idea  . Everyone running has something about them that I just find suspicious or that makes them kind of untrustworthy.On February 15 2010 13:24 Mystlord wrote: Ahhh too mucch reading... Picking out some posts that I think I should respond to: First off, I actually missed your post BC, sorry about that .In any case, I agree that the clues can point to me (lol how am I supposed to doubt that?), however, I think the more pertinent clue for the fire one lies in the fact that the torch flew in through a window opposite the horsemen. That could indicate a magical or supernatural component in the killing, and not that it is one of the members of Mafia B that threw the torch. I have nothing to say about the horsemen that kills Qatol because, well, the only clue we get about him is the cackling and the moonlight, which my profile does match. Now as for L's response, the first passage specifically mentions that there were two horsemen that met with Qatol, so it'd be a bit of a stretch to assume that the horseman in paragraph 2 is the exact same one in paragraph 1. Another note is that auto-assuming that a clue is a red herring isn't a good way to look at clues, at least in my opinion. Everything that appears should be considered relevant unless proven otherwise. One final note about the rooftop killer - the passage mentions that the killer ripped Incognito's head off. The girl in my profile has a sword, which doesn't "rip" at all. On February 15 2010 13:34 Mystlord wrote: I put it into OpenOffice Calc, and tadaaa doctorhelvetica 92 chezinu 70 bill murray 57 meeple 57 redtooth 50 l 42 iaaan 40 ace 39 bloodyc0bbler 36 abenson 32 d3_crescentia 23 789 23 citi.zen 19 incognito 19 fulgrim 18 [nyc]hobbes 17 zato-1 17 flamewheel91 12 mystlord 11 sidesprang 11 ver 10 qatol 10 infundibulum 7 madnessman 6 sugiuramidori 6 malongo 6 phrujbaz 6 l10f 6 faronel 5 zona 5 fishball 5 johnnyspazz 5 scamp 5 caller 5 xelin 5 dozko 5 ~opz~ 5 shockeyy 4 cynanmachae 4 nikoner 4 masterdana 3 tree.hugger 3 nemy 3 best[alive] 3 foolishness 3 amber[light] 2 empyrean 2 quickstriker 2 shikyo 2 vivi57 2 ohn 1 tredmasta 1 lucaswoj 1 stimilant 1 On February 15 2010 17:40 Mystlord wrote: Ok first of all, Bill Murray, you've taken over Chenizu's personality and made it about 50 times worse. You're making the thread expand at an exponential rate with little to no substance being added. I like how some people are taking an in depth clue analysis Day 1, but unless we can pin someone down on both clues and scummy behavior, it's not going to help too much. As of right now, I would vote to lynch an inactive, purely because right now, we have about 4 to 5 people completely caught up in their own little world making snide comments and arguing, and the rest of us are just barely trying to keep up. If all of you are green (as you claim), then you're literally self-destructing, and the mafia don't need to do anything but sit back and relax. I would definitely feel uncomfortable lynching any major player right now because I haven't seen anyone just completely fall apart and seem completely scummy. On the same note, I'm still unsure who to vote for mayor right now because all of them have like this vendetta against another active player or something. On February 16 2010 07:55 Mystlord wrote: There's just so many useless posts that I'm having trouble picking through it all... It could be a calculated sacrifice. If town is convinced that someone is mafia, mafia would be unwilling to put up a strong defense of that person without seeming scummy. We might see a light defense though. Also, there's just not that much to defend for him. He hasn't spoken one. freaking. word. As for my profile pic, nothing to say. It's a solid connection to the clues, and I won't blame you if you end up lynching me based off of that. Oh, and another point about Empyrean... Where do we go from his lynch? Are we just lynching to help out the other mafia family or what? I might be a bit ignorant in this, so I'd like to get this cleared up before I'm fully on board with the Empyrean lynch. It seems more like a dead end to me. If he truly is mafia, why not let a mafia family waste a kill on him? On February 16 2010 08:35 Mystlord wrote: Correct. I want the town to do nothing, and the mafia to do all the work. I believe that our lynches should be used to reveal potential mafia, not actually kill mafia. If we're to pit the mafia against each other, then it stands to reason that we'd want to give mafia leads, not start lynching one a day. As far as I'm concerned, lynching Empyrean gets us nowhere. On February 16 2010 10:01 Mystlord wrote: What the hell? The most retarded stuff happened while I stepped out. First redtooth roleclaims medic before the elections are over (WTF?!), then people vote him into office because you're afraid of losing a medic? And now we can't confirm if he's a medic. Great. Obviously either common sense has been completely destroyed, or scum is at work here. Oh dear God BM. Your logic fails on so many levels... Why would mafia 100% defend ace/redtooth? And I can't even pretend to understand the rest of your post. By the way, DrH, you asked before the elections were over who'd I lynch, and I'd lean towards Ace. He's just involved with too many people and has made too many posts. However, I'm not confident in that enough to push for an Ace lynch, although the vote switching has made me a bit more suspicious again... Oh yeah, and it appears that we have gotten nothing off of the Empyrean lynch. Huzzah! Time to wait for Night 2... On February 16 2010 10:06 Mystlord wrote: Well at this point, I'm pretty sure that anything said now will just be a repeat of what was already said in Day 1. The Empyrean lynch got us no leads and no information, and I don't think we can really do all that much besides more clue analysis, of which we already have quite a bit on. On February 16 2010 13:06 Mystlord wrote: I don't think the plan would work since I highly doubt the mafia would waste a hit like that. Remember that the other mafia family has 3 hits and each of them are going to be aimed at a potential mafia. Why would one mafia family waste a hit so early in the game? On February 17 2010 09:50 Mystlord wrote: Oh crap. I leave for home in a few, so I'll be back later. If the mafia have teamed up to eliminate the town first, we're in deep shit. On the other hand, I'm curious to know who was medic saved. Oh yeah, and I notice a distinct lack of descriptive detail in this post compared to the first one. Kind of weird, but I think the clues really jut out at us this time. I'll take a closer look when I get home. On February 17 2010 11:21 Mystlord wrote: First of all, Chezinu posted earlier that he's surprised that neither 789 nor I was killed Day 1. I also find that rather suspicious. The only thing I can say in my defense is that the mafia reasoned that there were better people to kill. Note that none of the Day 1 targets were clue based that weren't also high profile targets. Some clue analysis time. I'll bold the areas that I think are significant. The same motif of fire and the contrast between darkness and light. I can't think of any reason why two of the exact same clues would exist that point to different mafia members, so I'm going to assume that this is referring to the same person. A few things to note besides the fire and the darkness/light contrast is how careful this mafioso is. He's a tracker - silent and observant. This again matches with the first horsemen from Day 1, as he notices Qatol sneaking into the barn. A list of characteristics: -A tracker -Observant -Loves fire and gasoline -Loves the contrast between darkness and light I'm having a bit of trouble with exactly what happens, so I might be wrong here. So first off, we see another mafia that has no trouble with tracking, or he's at least well acquainted with the area. He's not a blundering oaf. Something else to note is the method of death. Sharp objects, I believe, is a pretty significant method of execution. It's very brutal. Something of interest, though, is how the mafia escaped. If I'm reading the story correctly, the mafia apparently blew a hole out of the wall? Or am I misinterpreting that. I'm not exactly sure where to go with that. Perhaps someone else could shed some more light on that. -Doesn't get lost. Knows his way around. -Kills through sharp objects. -Blows a hole through a wall to escape? Rather sparse set of clues. A mafia that plans ahead of time, although apparently BloodyC0bbler is deaf or a moron, or a combination of the two . Jokes aside, this mafia is not afraid to destroy a ton of stuff to get at his target. Obviously a miniature stone sphinx is important...-Plans ahead of time -Loves destruction -Stone sphinx to kill. (I don't think anyone with a stone sphinx as a profile pic is a target though, seems too obvious. I believe an Egyptian reference is much more likely here.) Meanings of a Sphinx: -Temple guardian -Riddle of the Sphinx. Note: I'm cautious on the second one, but we can't count it out. There's a lot more, found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx Again, a rather sparse clue selection. I read this two ways: 1) The attacker is a nature lover, and the particles are part of nature. Meadows implies flowers after all. 2) The meadows are a coincidence, and the attacker just loves using poison. Important - This mafia does not like to get his hands dirty. First one we've seen. -Nature lover and uses flowers/pollen poison or something. -or just pure and straight up poison. -Mafia does not like to get his hands dirty. Ok, I laughed when I read this. Sorry, just had to say that. First of all, something to note here is that there are two people. Two people arguing, and a pan was thrown in d3's face. Something else to note here is that the two people were arguing. This indicates anger in this killer, again, something not seen in any of the other killers. The pan... Not exactly sure it's significant other than the fact that it's a household, ordinary item. Perhaps it was thrown up in a fit of rage? -Two people -Anger and rage First of all, note that this DOES NOT invalidate the symbolism of the Sphinx. In fact, it in a way affirms the symbolism of the Sphinx in that the message is religious in nature. I am, however, unsure of how exactly BC was killed with the metal pike. I'm assuming that it was planted in him after the tower got destroyed. I'm not sure what else to say about this. On February 17 2010 11:23 Mystlord wrote: I don't see me for Killer 1. I don't see any moonlight references - just the contrast between light and dark. And by the way, you're missing half of the equation for the fire - the gasoline. On February 17 2010 11:28 Mystlord wrote: If mafia hit a vet, and Ver claimed the hit, that's a really dangerous ploy. Ver made no mention of being a Veteran, so I can only assume a medic blocked the hit. To the medic: Please don't reveal yourself to anyone, not even to Ver. On February 17 2010 11:33 Mystlord wrote: I reread the first story, and this jumped out at me: I think that's a reference that he's terrorizing the town in day time. Could also refer to the fire, but I think the day time is far more likely. Since the first attack took place at night, I think it means that he terrorized the town at night then, and he's terrorizing the town at daytime now. And the character in my profile is not throwing sharp things. Those crystals are part of her wings. Sorry for the high frequency of posts. I just love having something objective I can grasp onto. Interpretation might be wrong, but let's get the facts straight first. On February 17 2010 18:08 Mystlord wrote: Two posts that I think are good to respond to: Those are some fairly large assumptions. I'm not necessarily convinced that Mafia 1 from Day 1 and Mafia 1 from Day 2 are separate though. The similarities are rather stark. At the very least, one of the mafia from Day 1 should match with the day 2 mafia. It makes the most sense logically. As for assumption 2, perhaps. Regardless, I'm convinced that the Sphinx is tied to the perpetrator, whether loosely or not. I don't get a) or b) because the mafia has other hits to hit either Meeple or I. In fact, I think you're actually limiting the possibilities. First of all, none of the non-big name player hits from Day 2 appeared to have any major connection with the clues. Otherwise, 789 and I would have been good targets for the mafia to hit. While this can point to 789 and I being mafia, it could also mean that, like Ace, both mafia teams decided that behavior was much more important for Day 1 hits and geared their hits towards taking out as many suspicious people as possible. After all, mafia Day 1, just like town Day 1, is essentially a giant crapshoot. Now I didn't quote this, but referring to one of your other posts where you bring up previous posts. I'm not exactly sure how their posts will help us too much considering that they're all town. I can see how a mafia's posts would certainly help the town, but when you have nothing to compare it with... The most we can say is that none of their accusations were clearly anti-town, but that's not to say that they clearly or even vaguely point to other people. Uhh... If that last part made no sense it's because it's too early in the morning and I need some sleep... On February 18 2010 09:20 Mystlord wrote: Hm I didn't consider that BC might have been hit twice. That would actually make sense, and it kind of kills my theory on religion + sphinx. Oh well. Regardless, if BC was actually double hit, it means that BC planted a bomb on Ver, which places a bit more suspicion on Ver. However, we have established that his play is actually not all that inconsistent, so the double hit doesn't mean all too much. That said, I'll finally get around to profiles when I get home today (at school atm), so I'll just defend myself for now. I will assume that this is the story you're talking about: For comparison, I'll bring up the Day 1 story again: I'll do my best to point out WHY these two stories are almost certainly referring to two different people. In the day 2 story, I see no reference to the crazed psychopathic noises referred to in day 1. There is no indication of the crazed laughing either. Instead, the killer is calm and collected. This is a fundamental difference between the Day 1 and Day 2 killers. If there is always one undercurrent that runs throughout the clues, it's that their personality, once established, remains the same. Since Day 1 killer has a clearly different personality than Day 2 killer, I'd argue that they're two completely different people. At most, you can hook me off of the Day 1 clues (although there is no mention of light being blocked - merely a rooftop killer, which is a rather weak persona IMO. Psychopathic and loves to kill? Now that's a persona.) At the very least, do not lynch me based off of the connection between the Day 1 and Day 2 clues, or I'll lose my faith in humanity and logic  .Actually, I was going to post something completely separate here regarding who I think is a good Day 2 lynch, but it'll break continuity and I feel that people's eyes will just glaze over at length, so I'll save it for later after some posts have been made. On February 18 2010 11:56 Mystlord wrote: @Ver: Ok, so you're a Veteran. I don't doubt you. Like I said when you first told us you got hit, the risk is too great to lie. I'm not exactly sure how that helps us in any way though. Of course. Ignore me. Any justifiable reason? On February 19 2010 08:12 Mystlord wrote: Interesting note: Where are all the people that claimed that any clue analysis before Day 3 is useless? We saw a huge outcry of that Day 1, then Day 2 it's suddenly disappeared... Rather suspicious if you ask me. Even Ver has stopped espousing that. I'm also wondering why people are randomly voting without rationale. Ver pointed this out, but I'll point out that I have not seen anyone give a great justification as to why they're voting the way they are. This not only applies to me, but even more so to Bill Murray. Why are you lynching him? I haven't seen anyone in this thread point a finger to him, yet he's picking up speed and is apparently behind me in lynch votes. Oh yeah, and SC2 took away the activity in this thread. I'll expect limited participation for the rest of the game, so even if I get lynched, I don't think I'll care too much One final point: Experienced Mafia know how to blend in with the town. They want to make the town believe that they are, first and foremost, one of them. For the past few days, we've been assuming that scum make mistakes or have a different play style than the town, but this assumption should only hold true for those nooby players. As of right now, we might like to play follow the leader with our best players, but at the same time, we're in the most danger of dying to these same players. The best players in mafia would, logically, be the ones that would best blend in with the crowd. So, the list: Ver L Zona Caller redtooth Infundibulum (list compiled off of my limited knowledge of who has played before) These people should be at the forefront of our list in terms of who to keep an eye on, especially since they'll probably be playing extremely town-like. Ver has claimed his innocence (which I believe), but I think it'd be prudent to keep a watch on everyone who is an experienced player. On February 19 2010 08:44 Mystlord wrote: Because I didn't see your post Ver  Regardless, I'm 100% sure that I'm going to be voted off by the least amount of votes ever. BM: I actually never considered that. It's possible that BC placed a bomb on a target the mafia hit, then when that person died, his bomb got refunded. Unless a DT role checks Ver and finds that he is a Veteran, then town has no way of checking whether Ver is telling the truth. On February 19 2010 08:49 Mystlord wrote: Oh yeah, and another reason why I'll be glad to be gone. As of right now, we have 45 players remaining. 39 players have voted. So besides me, 6 people will get modkilled tonight. Rofl. 7 people out of the game in one fell swoop unless in the next 10 minutes people start voting. On February 19 2010 09:02 Mystlord wrote: Ah yes, just throwing this out there. Please remember that we have 2 mafia families. Keeping that in mind, whoever a mafia accuses is not cleared in any way if he flips red. The suspicion level remains the same. Ultimately, you'll end up getting little information off of a correct lynch in a game like this with 2 families. On February 19 2010 06:00 Phrujbaz wrote: This is a very tough lynch (as also evidenced by the large number of abstains). I think we shouldn't (yet) lynch anyone that has made at least some useful contributions. That means we should not lynch the following people: Ver Bill Murray Mystlord DoctorHelvetica nemY Zona did post a lot of text, but not really much useful. He seems to have a lot of time though, so maybe if we give him a chance, he will turn those walls of gibberish into walls of win. I do not think we should lynch him yet either. From currently voted for people, that leaves Faronel, Nikoner, and Xelin as acceptable lynch candidates, although I don't really feel enthusiastic about lynching any of them. Might as well read over their posts while waiting for Ver's post. | ||
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CynanMachae
Canada1459 Posts
Also, in regard to the post count list, Bill Murray wouldn't be that high if he didn't make a triple post each time he posts in the thread. I went back through the thread, and Meeple is the first one that called on Phrujbaz regarding clues, while laaan called out Mystlord. Doesnt say much aside from them not being in the same families, but it might lessen their chances of being mafias. | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
On February 17 2010 10:40 meeple wrote: My analysis: Killer 1: [r]Mystlord[/r] Sorry man, too many fire and moonlight references for me to overlook this. Your posting hasn't especially been incriminating, but you're laying low similar to the last game... Killer 4: [r]Phrujbaz[/r] Sneezing and white things reference Killer 5:[r]madnessman[/r] Bickering and madness references Dunno about the others yet | ||
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johnnyspazz
Taiwan1470 Posts
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CynanMachae
Canada1459 Posts
While it makes him look good for suspectinging Phrujbaz, keep in mind mystlord was being suspected from day 1. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
that makes me suspect zona.. he had no reason to post that unless zona is in the mafia with him | ||
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Much love people, and shame on all of you for making everyone read so much. Anyway, I would explain my list, but I'm dead now, so I'll leave that interpretation up to you guys. Too long of a death post. Bye! Off to better and greener fields for me. | ||
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johnnyspazz
Taiwan1470 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
In the last game I was mafia, there were staged mafia arguments. Look for anyone who might have weakly attacked Mystlord and "lose the argument" The mafia will be actively attempting to discourage themselves being grouped together. This game has a very different dynamic but I do believe that will still apply. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 19 2010 10:35 Ver wrote: Tonight's going to be a juicy night. To avoid late lists/no discussion etc I'm gonna throw out some names followed up by full analysis: ... ... ... Tree Hugger ... ... ... Have fun, in depth stuff coming up. I can't wait for my full analysis. Because I'm very curious where this wonderful list of names emanated from. Because if this is a list of people under suspicion, then you're certainly up there as well. At least I should be around just enough to really read this forum now. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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