EPTTL Mafia XVIII - Page 50
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
Has anyone else noticed that ? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 15 2010 15:31 Zato-1 wrote: Game theory. When you have dynamic decision-making, in which the outcome of my decisions depends upon the decisions you take, the correct way to approach the problem is to determine your optimal course of action first, and once I know what you're going to do and therefore the payoff of each of my own choices, only then do I start looking at what is the optimal course of action for myself. Sorry for the completely off-topic post, but I actually love game theory. Prisoner's dilemma and all that shiz- the very same reasoning that brought me to the conclusion, many pages ago, that mafia will mostly be lurking, so we should focus less on the really active players and more on those who are making shitty, short and content-free posts, and also on those who aren't posting at all. Yes yes, let's please focus on those who aren't contributing. Multiple people have stated that it's going to be very easy for mafia to hide among the shadows this game (mostly due to the large number of people and subsequent lack of posting from a bunch of them). I read these posts where people are saying "oh if so and so is mafia, then x and y are also mafia as well. Or if we kill this person and he turns up green, then these three people must all be mafia". Get real guys, mafia aren't out here sabotaging the election or anything. They are sitting by having fun reading the thread and posting their votes when needed. On February 15 2010 15:54 Amber[LighT] wrote: You guys are exhausting your fingers with this Ace bullshit. No one trusts Ace, but we don't all fight him... Also this whole bill.murray thing should be looked at a bit more carefully. Chezinu and foolishness out of nowhere voting for this guy? And we have about 20 abstains and the highest votes are Ver and Citizen with 4, which is crying for a vote swing from either mafia family. Also people who post a lot of nonsense should be careful. Just because the someone showed you're posting a lot, doesn't validate your alliance to the town any more than someone who isn't posting a lot. (I'm saying this because reading 20+ pages of bullshit really sucks) Bill Murray is the safest option to be in office as he is the most likely to be on the townside. Chezinu is just as likely, but Chezinu is prone to fuck ups so we don't want to put him in office. And might I suggest the 5 line rule to you as well. If on any post the writer does not produce at least 5 lines of his own creation, don't read the post. Chances are nothing important was said. Nobody Cares Syndrome is affecting many people in this game. Iaaan has never said anything worthwhile this game yet so I'd go ahead and ignore anything he says as well. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
I like how some people are taking an in depth clue analysis Day 1, but unless we can pin someone down on both clues and scummy behavior, it's not going to help too much. As of right now, I would vote to lynch an inactive, purely because right now, we have about 4 to 5 people completely caught up in their own little world making snide comments and arguing, and the rest of us are just barely trying to keep up. If all of you are green (as you claim), then you're literally self-destructing, and the mafia don't need to do anything but sit back and relax. I would definitely feel uncomfortable lynching any major player right now because I haven't seen anyone just completely fall apart and seem completely scummy. On the same note, I'm still unsure who to vote for mayor right now because all of them have like this vendetta against another active player or something. | ||
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decafchicken
United States19931 Posts
Oh and i forgot to mention me and Ace are mafia scum lynch us. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
Bill Murray is the safest option to be in office as he is the most likely to be on the townside. I am the only person that I am 100% sure is town. I will be going to bed shortly, had a fun night with this. In relation to the clues, I'd like to continue to press that d3_crescentia (although possibly a red herring like DoctorH said), Bloodyc0bbler, 789, Ace are the only people who have solidly fit the clues from my perspective. I would advise people not to vote based upon player habits, but on who you feel is most likely going to be town-aligned. we need at least one town-aligned player in office. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On February 15 2010 18:02 Bill Murray wrote: I am the only person that I am 100% sure is town. I will be going to bed shortly, had a fun night with this. In relation to the clues, I'd like to continue to press that d3_crescentia (although possibly a red herring like DoctorH said), Bloodyc0bbler, 789, Ace are the only people who have solidly fit the clues from my perspective. I would advise people not to vote based upon player habits, but on who you feel is most likely going to be town-aligned. we need at least one town-aligned player in office. shut up, your logic sucks, I AM THE ONLY PERSON WHO IS SURE THAT I AM 100% TOWN Unfortunately (or not) it is my bday today plus I have work in about 7 hours, so I will probably not be posting in the next little bit; I abstained from the mayoral vote, because I don't really like any of the candidates (and haven't really had the time to form strong opinions about each and every single one) and I don't think I'm going to have the time to change my vote, but at least I voted, that counts for something, right? | ||
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [This post] + On February 14 2010 21:13 Ver wrote: I was going to do real analysis but frankly I'm too exhausted/tired. I'm looking through and stuff just doesn't make sense. That will have to wait for tomorrow. So I'll just leave some general observations and thoughts. I do think that as L said earlier, we need to tone down the amount of fluff posts so everyone can read what is being said and not miss important parts. So far this seems like a typical game. Normally mafia are either very active or take to the shadows and lurk. This game seems to be the latter, with a lot of town infighting and the mafia staying quiet and scheming. There's not much bandwagoning going on, just lots of confusion and various discussion of approaches etc. This isn't the kind of scenario where mafia need to post much. They just want to sit back and avoid getting noticed. Yes this game is different than others because of the mafia's goals, but they still do not want to get killed by the town. That psychological impediment remains and affects their behavior as normal. It seems pretty apparent that the mafia are lazy and just waiting on us to waste lynches on innocents. They don't really have any reason to contribute and it's pretty clear that the people posting real contributions are innocent (I'm too tired to make a list atm sorry) while the mafia just post a bit of garbage and/or sit around. Lastly, I want to make it clear that the people who were questioning the statements about clue analysis being useful are very probably innocent (again too tired to make a list). In such a situation the mafia is not going to want to disagree with someone like me and attract attention to themselves, while an innocent is much more likely to not care and just argue what they feel is right. I made up a lot of that, but I posted it with very specific intentions at a time when it wouldn't be covered up by the mass of spam. It's very likely a number of mafia read it and took it into consideration when posting. Specifically I was looking for shifts in character before and after the post. Points that were made: -The mafia have been sitting back and watching the town fight itself (this was a half-truth, mafia have been posting but some have been lurking) -Mafia have not been making posts of real contribution -People that repudiated the assertions that clue analysis is useless this early are very likely to be innocent (half-truth, this depends on character and how they posted it) It's natural for the mafia to want to blend in and look like something innocents would do. They would see that I pointed out that the people who question clue analysis and make real contributions are likely going to be innocent, and would want to blend in. I think the mafia are not playing this intelligently so far and thus simple bait like this would work nicely. Several people caught my eye in relation to this case. They had posted little or nothing previously, but since have made real contributory posts and/or emphasized the purity of clues. Namely: Empyrean, Nikoner, dozko, 789, Midori, and Bloodyc0bbler. Are all of these people mafia? Not necessarily, but it is a starting point to look further. The timing and content (such as in Midori's case) might very well be a coincidence. I'll follow up on the others later, but let's look at Empyrean closer for now. On February 15 2010 01:51 Empyrean wrote: I'd agree with the first paragraph that I quoted, but I'd have to disagree with the second one. Clue analysis is one of the three main factors that the town can analyse with regard to knowing who the mafia are (the others being of course, behavior analysis, and voting...to a lesser extent). The town knows that although in the first few days, clue analysis is kind of tenuous since we don't have -that- much information, it's still an important thing. Obviously we shouldn't go around lynching people who say that clue analysis is useless, but I still would have to caution against assuming that people questioning that statement are innocent. Empyrean this seems a little out of place. It is your only post this game. Why is that? Furthermore, your reply makes little sense. You first say that you disagree with the second paragraph (that the people who question that clue analysis are bad are innocent), then you proceed to say a bunch of obvious/useless information. In fact it could be said that you even agree with my assertion that the town would believe that clue analysis is important. You end by saying something pointless (why would anyone want to lynch people who say clue analysis is useless, where did that come from?), then finally come back to your disagreement and say that we should be cautious about assuming the people who asserted the usefulness of clue analysis to be innocent. That seems overly long winded and your reply could really be reduced to the second part of the last sentence, or summed up like this: "I think that we should be cautious about assuming these people are innocent." Profound. What an insightful contribution buried in your only two paragraphs this entire game. The last two times you were mafia you mostly sat back and said nothing of value, just like this game. This post looks like an attempt to blend in by appearing at least a little active without actually contributing to the town. Something seems out of place here. For completeness, here is Empyrean's playing history: Empyrean as Mafia from the first game + Show Spoiler [Notable posts] + On February 12 2008 07:41 Empyrean wrote: Think about it, guys. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Tracil or anyone, but in the introduction, it's known that there are multiple mafia. I'm just a bit suspicious that Tracil's being so helpful. How do we know the mafia aren't acting in collusion to get him elected? He has a large number of votes already. After his election, in which he has the mafia vote AND the townspeople vote, IF he is part of the mafia, the game is effectively over. Mafia + major is a very dangerous position to be in. That being said, I'm withholding my vote. I want to see Tracil's defense. I also have dinner plans coming up! (I only used Tracil as an example. The same reasoning can be applied for the other people as well) EDIT: Please don't assassinate me tonight, mafia  On February 12 2008 08:47 Empyrean wrote: Wow. You sure have set my mind straight  I guess we'll have to work more together then, if we want to win. My vote's going to you :D I vote for Tracil for mayor. On February 12 2008 12:56 Empyrean wrote: I always thought all mafia members knew who each other were. Or is that not the case? Do mafia members know each other are? On February 14 2008 12:08 Empyrean wrote: If I were mayor, I wouldn't reveal who my bodyguards were to the Pardoner. There's still a chance that the Pardoner's part of the mafia, and after he knows who the bodyguards are, will kill them off so the mayor is left without guards. Summary: -Emp acts like a newbie and asks a bunch of mundane questions, acquiesces to stay on the town's good sides, and says nothing of importance. Empyrean as Townie from game 3 + Show Spoiler [Notable posts] + On November 03 2008 02:26 Empyrean wrote: My plan is much the same as the Mandalor plan of last game, which is to have two groups of people vote for the two top suspects. We'll have this go on for a few days, while the detectives take turns alternating checking the lists while the last detective checks one at random each night. After, say, four lynch votes, the detectives will reveal their list of how many mafia voted for each candidate, and we can use simple math from there. At this point, the two original DTs reveal their lists (and will likely be killed) while the third just waits. If any mafia decide to claim DT and give a conflicting view, the third DT will speak up. He'll likely get killed the next night as well. But still, once all the detectives are dead, we will have six-eight Mandalor style lists, as well as the names of any mafia who roleclaimed DT (since the DTs are dead, anyone who gave conflicting information by roleclaming DT will logically be mafia). EDIT: Two scenarios: 1. Two dead detectives, six-eight Mandalor style lists. This is if mafia don't role claim. 2. Three dead detectives, one-(however many mafia roleclaim) dead mafia, six-eight Mandalor style lists. So this plan either leaves us with one more DT alive than all previous plans posted, or the same number of dead DTs as previous plans but with dead mafia. In either case, we still have Mandalor style lists to work from. On November 03 2008 12:40 Empyrean wrote: Now that we know that Folca is ostensibly detective, we run into a dilemma of what to do. 1. Paramedics protect him. This would save him from normal mafia lynches, but if a suicide bomber targets him, then some paramedics die, depending on how much protection we afford him. 2. Just let him die, and hope they use the suicide bomber, thinking that we'd protect Folca. However, the mafia could anticipate this, and just use normal hits on him, in which case if we had used paramedics on him in the first place, he'd've been saved. Anyone care to analyze this, given our imperfect information? It wouldn't be hard to specify strategy spaces and payoff functions for each side in this scenario. On November 03 2008 13:57 Empyrean wrote: If we don't lynch Folca, will he have a chance to use his powers again and report them before he dies? If so, then I wouldn't advise lynching Folca. He'll die anyway, so in death he'll be vindicated. If no mafia target him to make him look suspicious, we'll all lynch him anyway. That's why I don't want to vote Folca. As for who to lynch, I still don't know if we can yet trust Folca (or he could be a mafia roleclaiming DT but Ace is also mafia...this way, Folca gains our trust while the mafia don't lose any killing power, and Folca can direct us to kill someone important later) since he's not dead, so because of this, I wouldn't vote for Ace either. I'll still stay with what few clues we have and vote to lynch decafchicken. I vote to lynch decafchicken. Also, has the town abandoned the Mandalor style plan I suggested earlier? If not, then we should probably coordinate first and second suspects. Also, when will Chuiu compile the vote list? Summary: -Real contributions, extremely active, gives his thoughts coherently. Is killed night 1 for these characteristics. Empyrean as Mafia from the smurf game: + Show Spoiler [Notable posts] + On August 03 2009 06:33 Acidic Pirate wrote: I don't even know how to respond to this :/...when I first posted that, I didn't know about some people not having forum access. And still, it's solid advice. Maybe after everyone has access, check the inactives and target them. By the way, a common tactic for mafia in previous games was to sow confusion in the townspeople. I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to accomplish, but you're playing terribly. So either get some common sense, learn how to play the game, or lose the game for all of us. Your posts aren't useful or helpful in any capacity, and if you want to help us out, you should probably work on making coherent and sensible arguments. Ok seriously, I know it's hard sometimes, but these slip-ups could potentially ruin the game. If people manage to find out (or easily guess) identities, that kind of ruins the purpose of smurfing. Try to keep mistakes like that to a minimum please? On August 03 2009 13:47 Acidic Pirate wrote: I think following a "plan" this early is just foolish, especially if not all of the details of the plan are even revealed yet. Seriously: the plan we have so far is just stupid. We're letting the mafia know who TWO of the blue players are? Are you kidding me? That's just stupid. Asking Veterans to roll call is just asking for town to lose. Additionally, mafia can roll call Veteran. Especially the Godfather, who can roleplay Veteran - he is immune from DT checks. If a DT checks him, he'll turn out Veteran. Great, by following your plan, we potentially have the Godfather in the circle of trusted townies, exchanging PMs and being able to influence lynching decisions. You don't even tell us the details of the plan, but for us to blindly follow you because you have a "loophole"? Are you kidding me? Asking for the town to follow such a ridiculous and risky plan early on isn't just myopic, it's dangerous. So hopefully you're just a deluded townsperson who's legitimately trying to help. I'd much prefer that over a mafia trying to spread confusion early on and reveal who the Veterans are. ... Seriously, either come up with a good plan that makes sense or don't try to force a bad one on us at all. You're doing nothing but hurting the town. On August 03 2009 15:16 Acidic Pirate wrote: Oh, and to glugluk: The problem is, though, that there is the potential for Godfather to roleclaim Veteran, and there is literally no way, if more than the requisite number of "Veterans" show up, for us to know who the Godfather is besides (at the moment) very tenuous clues - hell, the clues might not even have gotten to point at the Godfather yet :/....also, the Godfather has the potential to worm his way into trusted town conversations - probably game ending right there. Any detective would just see Veteran, so there's no help there. So, basically by following your plan, we give away the names of our Veterans? While I agree that we do need to set up some sort of structure (and, alas, I don't have a good suggestion yet ), it has to be safer than the one you suggested.Anyway, I'm headed to sleep right now, I'll check back in the morning. On August 04 2009 06:02 Acidic Pirate wrote: The problem with Rolechecks is the fact that mafia can use "Cover" which would make an actual Veteran appear Mafia, and the Godfather, who would appear Veteran. On August 05 2009 09:22 Acidic Pirate wrote: Nice work, though we don't know if he was being covered or if he's actually a red. Hopefully a Vigi will hit him tonight so if he does turn up red, we have some confirmed blues from which we can build a framework. If not, then I guess we lost another townsperson. Summary: -Lots of posts that while look like they are contributing, have very little of value and just pass judgment on other players. He posts but he doesn't contribute, so to speak. Reasonable activity but not like he was when he was green. Overall the difference between alignments is based off of how much he actively contributes to the town. Also Empyrean, you've been accused by several players for a clue connection. What do you think of this interpretation? It looks pretty incriminating to me and L and others seem quite confident on it. | ||
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
Game Plan Let's take a quick note of the realities of our situation: -Mafia want to only kill each other. Their interest in killing townies would only be to prevent their own deaths -Mafia do not know who the other family is, thus until they know they will just be hitting whoever they think is the other family. If they don't have any good analysts, they probably will hurt the town more than the other family. -The Town's best interest is to keep the mafia's hitting each other while they keep whittling down the strength of the superior family. -Mafia's have 3 KP, the most likely scenario is that the town has 3 medics. In short, mafia cannot afford to double/triplestack to get through medics unless there is a person they MUST kill. -Medics can be used to protect known mafia members from the weaker family (if it is 5 vs 1 for example and we know the last member from a family, we can stack 3 medics on them and they will auto live). Now what does the town control in this situation? Information and protections. Yes our lynches are important. Yes we should be trying to kill mafia every lynch. But the best use of our time will be using the superior mafia kp to get them to kill each other while we pick off the stragglers. Thus it is extremely important that we use our time to wisely to figure out as many mafia as we can as soon as possible, even if we don't have the KP for it, because we can borrow the mafia kp. Furthermore, the low mafia KP (being probably equal to medic protections) gives us enormous influence over who the mafia targets. Mafia's CANNOT afford to have their targets protected, or they will be set so far behind. All the same, they cannot afford to doublestack (or worse, triple) so they must go for people who are likely not to be medic protected. Obviously it would be great for an innocent to assign medics directly, but we can still do this via threat in the thread. If there is a reasonably small list of people that medics are assigned to, mafia take an enormous risk on hitting anyone on that list. Similarly, if there is a group that no medics are assigned to at all, the mafia will naturally want to target that group. Obviously this relies on our medics cooperating, but I hope that you all can see the value to this approach. Lastly, we should have a DT list of potential, but not super high priority suspects as a way to coordinate our DTs. By doing so we can have our DTs at least somewhat coordinated and most importantly, avoid DTs rolechecking someone who gets killed anyway. Ideally we will get the mafia to off a large number of themselves early on while we keep information of other mafia held back so that we can avoid any scenario where there's a power imbalance and we don't know who is left in which family. The most important use for DTs is to figure out which mafia are in which family and to get the stragglers who won't be gotten from analysis. Essentially, we are forcing the mafia's hand to target within a certain subset of (hopefully mafia) while restricting their ability to hurt important townies. Of course the mafia could hit someone who isn't on any of the lists, but if they are doing so then they will have a pretty good reason for it, so that doesn't really affect the situation too much. Hopefully now my actions throughout the first day make a little more sense. I have been focusing on accusing certain people and forcing them to respond to extract more information and set them up to get killed by the rival mafia. This is to get a reliable core of suspects to offer the families during this first night. Unfortunately the town (and mafia) has semi-thwarted this attempt in burying these posts and allowing the accused to merely brush off the accusations, but the evidence still remains and I will make sure the mafia take note of it even if the town does not. I urge anyone who has a strong suspect to make a compelling case for them with lots of evidence so we can have a nice platter of targets to offer the mafia (prolly around 8-10). It won't be particularly difficult to gather a smaller list for DTs to check and medics to protect. Summary: -Every night we should have a list of high priority suspects whom medics should not protect, a list of useful players we believe to be innocent that medics should protect, and a list for DTs to check that while not prioritized, medics can protect if they are so inclined. -In the worst case scenario of a power imbalance, we can use medics to protect the weaker mafia family while we pick off the superior one. I'll post the lists and all the specific stuff as soon as it hits night. Then we can discuss it a bit and make any necessary changes. Sound good? | ||
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
On February 15 2010 13:26 CynanMachae wrote: First, I don't understand how Ver is getting that many votes... Secondly, from the previous pages I've just read (well, more like the 20 previous pages), people came with the argument that people weren't playing the same way than in another game (Ver, BC), or that they were doing this that way each game (Ace vs L), etc, and based mafia accusations on that (among other things). While I agree that a slight change can be a lead, wouldn't it be exactly a mafia would play, not changing anything? Those are good players we are talking about, I wouldn't say that playing the same way is red, but changing a lot seems much less red to me. I'm sorry, but what are you basing this assumption on? It's plain wrong. On February 15 2010 13:46 meeple wrote: I'm curious as to why so many people are abstaining... is it just because you can't decide? None of the candidates have brought forth a decent platform that I agree with. On February 15 2010 14:37 redtooth wrote: the alternative is Ace and i aren't aligned but i am mafia. then reason out why mafia would go out of his way to defend a random townie (or even worse a mafia of the other family). lol i could have done that to earn ace's trust but that's quite a difficult target to trick. that scenario doesn't make any sense at all either. Your post doesn't make any sense at all either. You're omitting possibly explanations as to why you'd go out of your way to defend a random townie (or even worse a mafia of the other family), but you don't need to include them cause you're not red, everyone can see that, right? | ||
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MasterDana
United States114 Posts
On February 15 2010 17:12 Bill Murray wrote: In the day post, there is a reference to the moon 4 times and moonlight once. d3_crescentia's signature is "once, not long ago, there was a moon here". This is suspicious to me. Has anyone else noticed that ? I'm inclined to agree with DrH. This is a pretty big stretch. I say wait until the next set of clues to go near this. Elections end tonight, and we still seem pretty divided. Is this as big a deal as it seems? In previous games, has a Mafia Mayor done a huge amount of damage? | ||
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
On February 15 2010 15:16 redtooth wrote: now that i've explained everything and come clean, will you vote me mayor? Why are you pushing for office so hard? It's not as if a town role getting elected would suddenly have these super amazing benefits, in fact, the game is structured in such a way that getting elected benefits a mafia way more than a townie, even if the person elected is town-aligned. On February 15 2010 15:45 redtooth wrote: and goddamit this is day 1. you won't get a mafia the majority of the time. guys lets just relax and vote me as mayor and L as pardoner. if you don't you are being illogical... really... Really? Telling people that they're illogical if they don't vote for you? That's really poor, especially considering how inadequate your election platform is. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On February 15 2010 19:02 Nikoner wrote: i'm sorry. i really am. i made the incorrect presumption that people would think for themselves this game. will make sure to explicitly lay out every though process i have from now on, no matter how obvious.Your post doesn't make any sense at all either. You're omitting possibly explanations as to why you'd go out of your way to defend a random townie (or even worse a mafia of the other family), but you don't need to include them cause you're not red, everyone can see that, right? first off, mafia can only distinguish an individual as either in their family or not in their family. they have to analyze the same clues, the same behavior that we do. but for the sake of laying it out in ridiculously simple terms, we'll go through each scenario individually. red would not defend other family red. there's no sneaking into the 'mafia family circle' or 'earning the trust' of a mafia. a mafia family knows every other member in the family so you can't trick a mafia member into thinking you are their ally. since the goal of one mafia family is to kill the other, there is absolutely no merit for a mafia to defend another mafia. scenario 1 doesn't make sense in that regard. SCENARIO 1 redtooth is from mafia family 1 Ace is from mafia family 2 redtooth defends Ace mafia family 2 maintains full KP and uses it to target mafia family 1 red would not defend blue. first off, blues are indistinguishable from green so far. blues are also either actively trying to find and kill of reds (DTs), are actively stopping reds from doing their jobs (medics) or waste precious red KP (veteran). only one red may want to actively stop from dying is hatter because hatter dying may backfire on red. let's look at the scenario where Ace is blue. doesn't make sense that i would protect him were i mafia, would it? SCENARIO 2 redtooth is mafia Ace is blue redtooth defends Ace Ace's actions end up proving detrimental to redtooth through one of the reasons listed above red would also not defend green. the reason is because there is so much risk involved in defending an individual - the attention shifts to you so quickly. the only foreseeable benefits are that the green trusts you and you can use that trust to sneak into town circles or get him to vouch you. but that only works against really gullible players and is a rookie mistake. SCENARIO 2 redtooth is mafia Ace is green redtooth defends Ace town shifts attention to why redtooth defended Ace Ace fails to get into a town circle because of the suspicions surrounding him redtooth fails to get any meaningful information or trust combine that with my posting behavior, zero clues associated with me, and consistent (though sometimes adjusted) arguments and you have yourself a TOWNIE. any more questions? | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On February 15 2010 19:27 Nikoner wrote: how is it logical to vote for anyone other than me and BM? all other candidates are either surrounded with suspicion or have zero information to make an accurate judgement on. you're right about it benefiting a mafia way more than townie... SO WHY WOULD YOU RISK GIVING IT TO A CANDIDATE YOU HAVE NO CLUE OR ARE SUSPICIOUS ABOUT? BM has shown his irrationality thus far so i am the most logical pick.Why are you pushing for office so hard? It's not as if a town role getting elected would suddenly have these super amazing benefits, in fact, the game is structured in such a way that getting elected benefits a mafia way more than a townie, even if the person elected is town-aligned. Really? Telling people that they're illogical if they don't vote for you? That's really poor, especially considering how inadequate your election platform is. man direct your suspicions at the correct place. seriously. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
On February 15 2010 19:38 redtooth wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On February 15 2010 19:02 Nikoner wrote: i'm sorry. i really am. i made the incorrect presumption that people would think for themselves this game. will make sure to explicitly lay out every though process i have from now on, no matter how obvious.Your post doesn't make any sense at all either. You're omitting possibly explanations as to why you'd go out of your way to defend a random townie (or even worse a mafia of the other family), but you don't need to include them cause you're not red, everyone can see that, right? first off, mafia can only distinguish an individual as either in their family or not in their family. they have to analyze the same clues, the same behavior that we do. but for the sake of laying it out in ridiculously simple terms, we'll go through each scenario individually. red would not defend other family red. there's no sneaking into the 'mafia family circle' or 'earning the trust' of a mafia. a mafia family knows every other member in the family so you can't trick a mafia member into thinking you are their ally. since the goal of one mafia family is to kill the other, there is absolutely no merit for a mafia to defend another mafia. scenario 1 doesn't make sense in that regard. SCENARIO 1 redtooth is from mafia family 1 Ace is from mafia family 2 redtooth defends Ace mafia family 2 maintains full KP and uses it to target mafia family 1 red would not defend blue. first off, blues are indistinguishable from green so far. blues are also either actively trying to find and kill of reds (DTs), are actively stopping reds from doing their jobs (medics) or waste precious red KP (veteran). only one red may want to actively stop from dying is hatter because hatter dying may backfire on red. let's look at the scenario where Ace is blue. doesn't make sense that i would protect him were i mafia, would it? SCENARIO 2 redtooth is mafia Ace is blue redtooth defends Ace Ace's actions end up proving detrimental to redtooth through one of the reasons listed above red would also not defend green. the reason is because there is so much risk involved in defending an individual - the attention shifts to you so quickly. the only foreseeable benefits are that the green trusts you and you can use that trust to sneak into town circles or get him to vouch you. but that only works against really gullible players and is a rookie mistake. SCENARIO 2 redtooth is mafia Ace is green redtooth defends Ace town shifts attention to why redtooth defended Ace Ace fails to get into a town circle because of the suspicions surrounding him redtooth fails to get any meaningful information or trust combine that with my posting behavior, zero clues associated with me, and consistent (though sometimes adjusted) arguments and you have yourself a TOWNIE. any more questions? What about the case where you and Ace are in the same family? If you are, what you're getting from this whole ordeal is people to look over it, AND you're pushing for mayor. Combine that with the horrendous platform that seems like it's crafted for a single mafia game and uh... doesn't look very solid. Also, having no clues associated to you on day 1 doesn't mean shit, I have no clues assiociated to me either but it doesn't mean I'm the zombie-Jesus-townie-miller. | ||
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
On February 15 2010 19:42 redtooth wrote: how is it logical to vote for anyone other than me and BM? all other candidates are either surrounded with suspicion or have zero information to make an accurate judgement on. you're right about it benefiting a mafia way more than townie... SO WHY WOULD YOU RISK GIVING IT TO A CANDIDATE YOU HAVE NO CLUE OR ARE SUSPICIOUS ABOUT? BM has shown his irrationality thus far so i am the most logical pick. man direct your suspicions at the correct place. seriously. If you and Bill Murray are the only logical candidates, why are you telling me to vote for you and L? | ||
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