EPT
I'm also providing a town aligned mayoral candidate, that's more than I can say you're doing with 100% conviction.
TL Mafia XVIII - Page 48
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
I'm also providing a town aligned mayoral candidate, that's more than I can say you're doing with 100% conviction. | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Posting from the heart is garbage, don't just throw out your "feelings" if you don't have anything to back it up. You're just providing confusing and stupid distractions from posts with real points and arguments. You dodged my demands that you justify your statements for a while when you posted your "mafia list" Do you want me to keep pestering you or are you just going to continually waste everyones time? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
[QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:16 Ace wrote: [QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Information: If flip red we can analyze: Vocal Supporters Who voted for you for mayor, particularly while giving little reason Vocal accusers (L, Myself, laaan) are very likely not in the same mafia family as you People trying to distract attention from accusations toward you without offering a real argument A relatively large amount of posts to analyze from the perspective of a mafia from a specific family If you flip green, it's fair to analyze: Vocal accusers seem more suspicious Voters for the most vocal accusers People who suddenly bandwagon against you late in the thread/without reason[/QUOTE] If I flip red you can't analyze my vocal supporters. There aren't any. No one has supported me so far, only people who have said you guys may be wrong. That isn't support. It doesn't matter if you're not in the same family - you'd still be suspect. Who has tried to distract attention from this argument? List them please. For the very last time, you can't analyze my posts. In fact before you even try and get me killed it might be a wise idea and analyze them now to see what you can find. And by analyze I don't mean "hey guys, look what Ace said" but more akin to what links if any you can see to other people. I ask this sincerely because before you try and kill me on the basis I'm Mafia you should do this BEFORE offing me to make sure you have some clue of what you are doing. Needless to say I think you're so off tangent so this will hopefully show you why you're wrong. Now if you lynch me when I'm innocent you don't even get any more information based on my last paragraph. You have nothing to link me on. Nothing. you'd start the next day with the SAME information as the last. If you can prove me wrong, do it now by examining my posts and see what you can find that is going to be so mind blowing to the town it gets us a path to the Mafia. [/QUOTE] [quote]You said yourself if you flip green, that myself/L/laaan are likely mafia. Saying there is no information to be gleaned from your death either way is silly.[/quote] Look at my paragraph before the last then re-read what I was addressing. It makes perfect sense. [quote] I wouldn't call ver a vocal supporter of you, but like redtooth said. If you are mafia, your allies will likely not vehemently defend you but perhaps try to discourage the use of clue analysis. Ver made a post a while back saying that "anyone discouraging clue usage is probably innocent" and it seems to me (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you tried to discourage redtooth from making anti-ver posts with your PM to him. redtooth just now has added a fair amount to the case for you being scum. You're saying my suspicion isn't based on any analysis, but I've stated many times it has to do with your dodging L's questions, being unwilling to provide alternative solutions, and the biggest basis of your argument being "fuck you I'm ace i dont need to defend myself cuz im ace"[/QUOTE] Ver, myself, MBH, and other have discouraged the use of clue analysis early on in past games. We are KNOWN to do this. This is why I said you pointing this out doesn't help your case. It's really not a big deal. You're trying to out think people when there isn't even a situation present. And yes you're wrong. You should ask redtooth for the PM if you want clarity. I didn't try to influence redtooth in any way. If I wanted to do that I probably would have kept PMing him. He already showed me he was slightly distrustful of me when he cut the conversation short. For the record I don't even agree with Ver that anyone discouraging clue usage is possibly innocent because that's too wide of a blanket statement. How does redtooth's post push me further to scum? PLEASE explain this. Honestly you're really talking lots of bull right now. I address arguments that warrant attention. I'm not here to constantly repeat myself. All the answers are in the posts. If you need help reading, ask for it. Like really you're so wrong and I hate to say it's because you're a newb but it's getting very close to that point. THINK before you post. Seriously. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On February 15 2010 15:31 Zato-1 wrote: Game theory. When you have dynamic decision-making, in which the outcome of my decisions depends upon the decisions you take, the correct way to approach the problem is to determine your optimal course of action first, and once I know what you're going to do and therefore the payoff of each of my own choices, only then do I start looking at what is the optimal course of action for myself. Sorry for the completely off-topic post, but I actually love game theory. Prisoner's dilemma and all that shiz- the very same reasoning that brought me to the conclusion, many pages ago, that mafia will mostly be lurking, so we should focus less on the really active players and more on those who are making shitty, short and content-free posts, and also on those who aren't posting at all. the first thing you've said that would convince me to trust you. i'm not going to trust anyone, as mayor, though. i'm going to trust everyone if i trust everyone, i'm trusting 30 townies and 20 mafia. majority! | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
then immediately proceeds to post tons of confusing shit. naturally people would think "oh a mafia would never do something that obvious" but perhaps, if BM is mafia, that is his desired defense. He certainly isn't doing anything to help the town whatsoever besides being a "confirmed" pro-town running for mayor | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
[QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: [QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:16 Ace wrote: [QUOTE]On February 15 2010 15:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Information: If flip red we can analyze: Vocal Supporters Who voted for you for mayor, particularly while giving little reason Vocal accusers (L, Myself, laaan) are very likely not in the same mafia family as you People trying to distract attention from accusations toward you without offering a real argument A relatively large amount of posts to analyze from the perspective of a mafia from a specific family If you flip green, it's fair to analyze: Vocal accusers seem more suspicious Voters for the most vocal accusers People who suddenly bandwagon against you late in the thread/without reason[/QUOTE] If I flip red you can't analyze my vocal supporters. There aren't any. No one has supported me so far, only people who have said you guys may be wrong. That isn't support. It doesn't matter if you're not in the same family - you'd still be suspect. Who has tried to distract attention from this argument? List them please. For the very last time, you can't analyze my posts. In fact before you even try and get me killed it might be a wise idea and analyze them now to see what you can find. And by analyze I don't mean "hey guys, look what Ace said" but more akin to what links if any you can see to other people. I ask this sincerely because before you try and kill me on the basis I'm Mafia you should do this BEFORE offing me to make sure you have some clue of what you are doing. Needless to say I think you're so off tangent so this will hopefully show you why you're wrong. Now if you lynch me when I'm innocent you don't even get any more information based on my last paragraph. You have nothing to link me on. Nothing. you'd start the next day with the SAME information as the last. If you can prove me wrong, do it now by examining my posts and see what you can find that is going to be so mind blowing to the town it gets us a path to the Mafia. [/QUOTE] [quote]You said yourself if you flip green, that myself/L/laaan are likely mafia. Saying there is no information to be gleaned from your death either way is silly.[/quote] Look at my paragraph before the last then re-read what I was addressing. It makes perfect sense. [quote] I wouldn't call ver a vocal supporter of you, but like redtooth said. If you are mafia, your allies will likely not vehemently defend you but perhaps try to discourage the use of clue analysis. Ver made a post a while back saying that "anyone discouraging clue usage is probably innocent" and it seems to me (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you tried to discourage redtooth from making anti-ver posts with your PM to him. redtooth just now has added a fair amount to the case for you being scum. You're saying my suspicion isn't based on any analysis, but I've stated many times it has to do with your dodging L's questions, being unwilling to provide alternative solutions, and the biggest basis of your argument being "fuck you I'm ace i dont need to defend myself cuz im ace"[/QUOTE] Ver, myself, MBH, and other have discouraged the use of clue analysis early on in past games. We are KNOWN to do this. This is why I said you pointing this out doesn't help your case. It's really not a big deal. You're trying to out think people when there isn't even a situation present. And yes you're wrong. You should ask redtooth for the PM if you want clarity. I didn't try to influence redtooth in any way. If I wanted to do that I probably would have kept PMing him. He already showed me he was slightly distrustful of me when he cut the conversation short. For the record I don't even agree with Ver that anyone discouraging clue usage is possibly innocent because that's too wide of a blanket statement. How does redtooth's post push me further to scum? PLEASE explain this. Honestly you're really talking lots of bull right now. I address arguments that warrant attention. I'm not here to constantly repeat myself. All the answers are in the posts. If you need help reading, ask for it. Like really you're so wrong and I hate to say it's because you're a newb but it's getting very close to that point. THINK before you post. Seriously. [/QUOTE] How does it push you further to scum? lol Because he provided reasons why he became distrustful of you and since he knows your posting style better than I do, I give a bit of credence to analysis. Why wouldn't additional reasons you may be mafia make me distrust you more? | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
As if mafia have to act a certain way to make sure we all know who they are. Please stop saying things like that. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On February 15 2010 14:33 Bill Murray wrote: that being said, please vote for me. i promise you guys that i will try to network for the town. if you are a town member looking for someone to trust, i promise you that you can trust me. if you pm me that you're town i have noone else to tell... because being a poor green you have noone to trust. i know this. i would originally think that being elected would protect me personally, but in fact it would actually put a huge target on my green head. i don't mind this. i am willing to be a martyr for you all for us to actually win this game. we have to be very careful with who our medics protect, and when, and if you look back on past games sometimes medics will protect the same person when it is not needed or not advisable. it would also be nice if we could coordinate who to bomb and when... we need to get a good foundation !!!!! Really, guys! I love you all, I love Team Liquid, and I love this mafia game. Let's, as a town, share the love and eliminate these red threats. Come, chezinu, come ver, come ace, come out from hiding citi.zen let's win. whoever is green... really. i don't want this to be another win for these mafias... if we lose, let it be by eliminating TOO MANY OF THEM rather than NOT ENOUGH. and then citi.zen comes out of hiding less than 10 minutes later. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 15 2010 15:31 Zato-1 wrote: Game theory. When you have dynamic decision-making, in which the outcome of my decisions depends upon the decisions you take, the correct way to approach the problem is to determine your optimal course of action first, and once I know what you're going to do and therefore the payoff of each of my own choices, only then do I start looking at what is the optimal course of action for myself. Sorry for the completely off-topic post, but I actually love game theory. Prisoner's dilemma and all that shiz- the very same reasoning that brought me to the conclusion, many pages ago, that mafia will mostly be lurking, so we should focus less on the really active players and more on those who are making shitty, short and content-free posts, and also on those who aren't posting at all. As someone who's taking courses in AI and a large part of it was Game Theory, I'd disagree that Mafia would be lurking because somebody has to win this election. BUT - I do agree that we should be looking at the crap-content posters. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
I WOULD RUN FOR MAYOR AND TRY TO UNITE THE TOWN! I hate losing. LETS WIN. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On February 15 2010 15:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote: How does it push you further to scum? lol Because he provided reasons why he became distrustful of you and since he knows your posting style better than I do, I give a bit of credence to analysis. Why wouldn't additional reasons you may be mafia make me distrust you more? But it's not EVIDENCE, it's conjecture. That's like me saying I don't trust Bill Murray - he's obviously more scummy than before! See how this is nonsense? Didn't I tell you to THINK before posting? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
I didn't trust you from the beginning. If you said, I didn't trust Bill Murray but given some new posts on the matter/things Player X pointed out I'm a bit more secure in the distrust, that would be perfectly reasonable | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On February 15 2010 15:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lol extrapolation much? first off i PM'd him first, in response to what he said in the thread because i didn't want to explain my reasons publicly. it was his response that surprised me and even then he never discouraged me from making anti-ver posts. as a matter of fact he said he agrees and supported my decision.You said yourself if you flip green, that myself/L/laaan are likely mafia. Saying there is no information to be gleaned from your death either way is silly. I wouldn't call ver a vocal supporter of you, but like redtooth said. If you are mafia, your allies will likely not vehemently defend you but perhaps try to discourage the use of clue analysis. Ver made a post a while back saying that "anyone discouraging clue usage is probably innocent" and it seems to me (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you tried to discourage redtooth from making anti-ver posts with your PM to him. redtooth just now has added a fair amount to the case for you being scum. You're saying my suspicion isn't based on any analysis, but I've stated many times it has to do with your dodging L's questions, being unwilling to provide alternative solutions, and the biggest basis of your argument being "fuck you I'm ace i dont need to defend myself cuz im ace" and goddamit this is day 1. you won't get a mafia the majority of the time. guys lets just relax and vote me as mayor and L as pardoner. if you don't you are being illogical... really... and even if citizen posts tomorrow its not enough to get a basis on his behavior and determine whether he is safe enough to trust. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
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[NyC]HoBbes
United States803 Posts
Posting from the heart makes even less sense than anything else you've said so far. In case anyone hasn't noticed, this is a game about logic. Emotions or "feelings" play no part in the thought process, otherwise we'd kill off all the people who acted like assholes and ignore all the content of the game. @ Zato-1, I disagree with the conclusion you've come to that the mafia would be lurking. Creating confusion among the townies and making them lynch each other doesn't really benefit them, when their primary objective is to discover the other mafia. If anything, I would see current mafia behavior as very active, trying to get as much analysis of any kind out there, and to steer people's interpretations of that analysis towards who they believe to be enemy mafia. Lurking in the shadows and letting the townies go nuts on each other would seem to me to be a poor strategy, as the town, to them, has a fairly negligible KP at this stage, meaning the mafia could essentially ignore us in all our roles except that of creating information, which requires activity | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Alright, thanks for clearing that up redtooth. However, if he is responding/acting uncharacteristically that isn't something I'm going to ignore since I don't trust Ace in the first place. I really don't want to come off as hyper-aggressively pushing Ace to be killed, because I'm really not, but he is the best target for the town as far as I'm concerned. My question is, if not Ace who? Convince me with reason to reach an alternate conclusion. Ace, you've refused to provide an alternative for the clue profile. I'd be comfortable lynching Empyrean based off the very strong clue connection and his inactiveness, as an alternative. I also have minor suspicions toward BloodyC0bbler. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
Also this whole bill.murray thing should be looked at a bit more carefully. Chezinu and foolishness out of nowhere voting for this guy? And we have about 20 abstains and the highest votes are Ver and Citizen with 4, which is crying for a vote swing from either mafia family. Also people who post a lot of nonsense should be careful. Just because the someone showed you're posting a lot, doesn't validate your alliance to the town any more than someone who isn't posting a lot. (I'm saying this because reading 20+ pages of bullshit really sucks) | ||
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