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On February 14 2010 14:18 Faronel wrote:
I think Ace was right... It's kind of a RISK like game with mini alliances where the town acts like a mafia family with kp of 1. There's definitely some intrigue here.
So just to clear this up...
we have 5 people contending for mayor?
Ace, L, Citizen, l10f, meeple, and Ver.
Right now everyone has 1 vote except for Ace and Ver who have 2 votes.
Edit: So much "omg that's exactly what mafia would do!" b/w the L and Ace sides.
I've of teh opinion that both are vets, so they wouldn't be making any noob mistakes in terms of a scumtell. But isn't it a bit early to be throwing around some wild accusations as "that's what mafia would do. He must be mafia".
It seems the mayor vote is a bit of a lucky guess, because like in the last Incog mafia game, we have a mafia sheriff. We can only know so much about the candidates... and instead of throwing around accusations, focus on a plan for what happens are we have a mayor (like if we lynch the other runner or w/e).
What did you edit?
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L, saying things like the use of a spear exonerates 789 to me is a bit hasty. Wait and see if the spear is used again. In the last mafia game I was in, there were many irrelevant clues that people focused on. What comes to mind is a clue pointing to derfboy where the victim was sledgehammered, which was completely irrelevant. People focused on the sledgehammer and the description of the killer when the relevant info was that the killer sabotaged the victims house prior to the attack.
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things like this are why we shouldn't worry way too much about clue analysis on day 1
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On February 14 2010 17:16 L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 17:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
L, saying things like the use of a spear exonerates 789 to me is a bit hasty. Wait and see if the spear is used again. In the last mafia game I was in, there were many irrelevant clues that people focused on. What comes to mind is a clue pointing to derfboy where the victim was sledgehammered, which was completely irrelevant. People focused on the sledgehammer and the description of the killer when the relevant info was that the killer sabotaged the victims house prior to the attack. I agree partially. I don't think he's 'innocent', but i think there's enough divergence between the moonlight rider and him to have that clue stick to him. The connection to blindness, the moon, him jumping through walls, the instant death on impact all seem far weaker than the associated links elsewhere. The spear really was the thing that tipped me over the edge in terms of ruling him out.
I'm wary of terms like exoneration, but pointing out where connections are stronger or weaker are helpful. Naturally the mafia will want to divert clue analysis toward weaker non-mafia connection.
This is exactly what I did in the last mafia game and it was working fabulously until i was painted red and lynched.
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Can you please elaborate on both the PM from Ver and why you think each person is mafia?
Pointing fingers without giving reasons to back it up doesn't help anyone. Don't just say "hey guys i think player a, b, c, and d are mafia, cya later!"
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oh wow i didn't notice you said other mafia
if that's a mistake and ur mafia that would be so hilarious
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On February 14 2010 17:28 Bill Murray wrote:
after reading your alls posts, it is actually sort of easy to put people into groups of "blind faith and teamwork" which would be associated with mafia.
the only problem here is there seem to be multiple groups
L
Chezinu
redtooth
laaan
zato-1
bloodycobbler
ver
L
Mystlord
fulgrim
in my opinion are mafia, possibly not all in the same mafia, but that's my guess
i also think that bloodycobbler is the other mafia godfather
lol there are so many fucking things wrong with this post
1) you say there seem to be multiple groups and then list ONE group of players. Can you distinguish who you feel is grouped together and who is not?
2) No justification for any of your accusations, even though I agree with some of those players being suspicious
3) you really think you have figured out 10 mafia not even halfway through the first day? you have to be fucking kidding me.
4) "other mafia godfather" lol
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if im elected mayor i will most definitely lynch bill murray, I do suspect bloodycobbler but BM is gonna have a hard time arguing his way out of this one
if he is green, it just goes to show you need to pay attention to your word choice
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he probably pounded that out and went to bed
when he wakes up hes gonna have a nice surprise
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it's pretty clear that it's his ideas and not something he got from a pm
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it's interesting that ace is the only really active poster so far bm didn't accuse
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going to sleep
sorry i was a bit inactive today, i've been busy packing stuff here and there. i'll be able to be more active tomorrow
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Bill Murrays defense hasn't impressed me one bit. I'm not 100% convinced he's mafia, but if he is not this is just terrible play.
Bill Murray, at the very least give reasons as to why you think those people are mafia. Why do you refuse to justify your statements? Do you actually think it's helpful to come in and say "OH BTW THESE DUDES ARE MAFIA AND L IS DA GODFATHER AND BC IS THE OTHER FAMILIES GODFATHER, L8R"
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On February 15 2010 04:04 dozko wrote:Right, finally got the time to read through all of the election campaigns. I will be posting all of the relative posts since I compiled them in a text file to look at anyway, hopefully I didnt miss anything. + Show Spoiler [ All candidatures] +NB: These are in chronological order. + Show Spoiler [BloodyC0bbler] +On February 14 2010 07:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As the game as begun, it is time to get it started.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for the position of mayor.
I believe the town can easily win this if we work together, as a concise unit, and do so before the mafia can create their own plans. Action must happen now. My campaign is on a platform of strength. I believe I have the strength to help pull this town together. I can analyze clues, behaviour, and can help guide blues to where they should act. The more we work together, the less we have to lose. The first lynch at the moment, as there is nothing to really go on, I believe is moot unless someone gives themself away obviously. Therefore I would lynch the most inactive player, or in the case of someone giving themself away, that person. Any other choice should be pardon'd instantly.
Vote for unity, Vote for strength, Vote for bloodyc0bbler On February 14 2010 11:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
A mayor should lynch someone who is inactive, or someone who is so obviously mafia that even their own family would sell them out.
Aside from that, people start talking, more voting alllright. On February 14 2010 07:55 Chezinu wrote:
I am running too!!! I always wanted to run for a position but either couldn't from inexperience or there wasn't ever one!
VOTE FOR ME!!!!!! On February 14 2010 09:31 Chezinu wrote:
Reason to vote me for mayor:
If I was mafia: I will try to lynch the other competing mafia team and not focus on the town until we take care of our biggest threat.
If I am town: I will end my insane talk and talk normally for the first time for I wouldn't have to dodge any reads.
If I am either of above: I don't want to die... Tons of people already want me dead from previous games. Please don't spite... On February 14 2010 08:30 L wrote:
1) I've been trying to change my picture, but I need to find out my password.
2) I'll be running for mayor.
3) Ver's retarded and looking at clues is plenty helpful, especially since it lets you see who's pushing against who. Regardless, having people talking is better than having people not talking. Its far easier to let people be silent in a 50 man game than have them actively feign town interests.
Proof? Pretty much every large game we've had.
In the current game, a full 40% of people playing are mafia; while clues shouldn't be the only thing you have on someone, they should definitely play a part.
Then again this is probably just my interpretation, given that I'm one of the only people who is responsible for a clue kill on day 1 or 2. On February 14 2010 09:06 l10f wrote:Hello fellow town members, I would like to run for mayor. And you should vote for me. I don't want to die on the first night like last time, and since my star is blue, that must mean I have a blue role! So everyone vote for me  I also agree with Ver that we shouldn't be pointing fingers with one piece of information. We should wait till we have more, and if several clues point to one person, we have a better chance of catching the mafia. Well, everyone GL HF! On February 14 2010 09:45 l10f wrote:
If I get elected mayor, I plan on lynching one of the mafia from the last game I played. On February 14 2010 13:20 l10f wrote:
Hmm, it looks like I won't be getting the mayor spot so easily! How about this, if I am elected mayor, instead of going on my vengeful rampage and lynching the people responsible for my quick death last game, I will lynch CHEZINU. You want to vote me now, don't you? On February 14 2010 09:48 Bill Murray wrote:
I am going to run for mayor. There are two people who will benifit from this election, and I want at least one of them (me) to help the town. If you vote for people other than me, you will not be happy
I am promising guaranteed liberty, equality, and power. If I am elected, I will go with the majority, because I trust people will make the right decision overall and at least two groups of ten will be working for a separate goal. That leaves the remaining 31 to try and work to eliminate these groups in the correct numbers... this is deceptively hard. You can indirectly cause one Mafia to win if you offset their numbers inappropriately. The Pardoner could win the game for the town be pardoning a mafia member that is from a group that has less mafia than the other group. I doubt many of you will vote for me, but to be honest this is a mistake. Please vote for me if you want to save the town. On February 14 2010 09:57 meeple wrote:
I'm going to run for an elected position again. Last time as mayor it turned out really well for the town and while obviously there was a concerted effort and I won't even attempt to take credit for that, I think having an active and coherent mayor/sheriff is crucial to the town's success. So vote for me! On February 14 2010 10:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'll be running for mayor/pardoner. It's always nice to have a special role, makes the game more interesting. If I am mayor, I will lynch whoever the town wants me to lynch and use my votes the way the town wants them used unless I strongly feel the town consensus is wrong, in which case I will do my best to justify my vote.
I don't really like the pardoner power to be honest, I guess I would only use it to save someone who I suspected/knew was blue or under some sort of special circumstance. My limited experience hurts me here, but can any more experienced players let me in on what kind of pro-town role the pardoner really holds? On February 14 2010 13:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Ver has been the most sensible so far imo
His accusation of bloodycobbler is based on a change in bc's posting strategy and not the loose and broad clues from Day 1. He's advocating keeping the clues in mind until they become effective later in the game: a reasonable assertion. On February 14 2010 14:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If I were elected, I'd probably lynch Bloodycobbler. The accusations against him are at least based on posting behavior and referenced through other mafia games On February 14 2010 10:34 MasterDana wrote:
I'll run for mayor too!
I think I'm a pretty nice guy and can do nice things! <: On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
On February 14 2010 13:17 citi.zen wrote:So many pages of text in just a few hours - this is going to be crazy! At any rate, to the business of the day we go: 1. I will run for office. If you did not follow Incognito's last game, click here for my quals. No fancy slogans or banners. All I can tell you is that, as a rule, I trust nobody, regardless of previous game history or in-game behavior. As an example, in my last game, I kept a vigilante on call just in case meeple (the mayor) was red. At that point we had a single unidentified mafia alive and 11 townies (I think). Furthermore, meeple had already been of great help catching many of the mafia. Still, I had no way of knowing 100% that this wasn't all some devious mafia plot, so I kept the vigilante hit available. This is how I play. 2. I don't agree with Ver/Ace's contention that analyzing clues helps the mafia. Don't get me wrong, I do think it will probably not lead to correct lynches on days 1 or 2, but it will force the mafia to leave a paper trail and provide us with mid-game behavioral clues. Recognizing that was a somewhat atypical experience, that thick paper trail helped a lot in the last game. An example from this thread: the exchange between L and Ace could be very useful at some point. The conversation started from L talking about clues. That small "hook" created juicy thread. So analyze/talk/argue away I say. On February 14 2010 20:14 Ver wrote:Excellent. A bunch of things to cover. This thread is exploding as fast as Qatol's game. Hopefully it doesn't turn into that quagmire. 1) Bill Murray is looking very innocent to me, based on his reaction. It's the same type of scenario that those who played in Incognito's game saw with t_co, who ended up townie. 2) Clues. It's natural that new players are obsessed with clues. They seem more reliable. Clue analysis and behavior analysis are both very difficult at first, behavior slightly more so though again only Camlito and MTF have gotten people on clues in more than 1 game. To new players, behavior seems much more sketchy, so these responses are natural.. I think nearly all of the people who are crazy about clues are both more than likely innocent and simply haven't seen the terrifying power that good analysis skills can do. For an example see here chuius game 5 (despite what may be posted in the thread nobody was actually gotten on clues, that's just a coverup for reasons I don't want to go into). This game was the best town performance ever, and it went like this (7/8 mafia on lynches) because all of the best analysts and planners were on the town's side. We had 2 mafia confirmed by day 1 along with probably 15 innocents and several power roles, and several more mafia outted by day 2. That is NEVER going to happen with clues. Because the thing with clues is that you cannot know if someone is innocent. Analysis can do that. Exactly why I'm calling Bill Murray innocent. If you want to support using clues this early, then you better provide good support for it and not some lazy gibberish (like L has been doing, this is good). Just posting 'i think clues this early are still useful' with no support means absolutely nothing and doesn't help us learn anything about you. Remember as an innocent, part of your job is to find mafia. The other part is to make your innocence clear. 3) Running for Mayor. As all the vets know, I hate being in the spotlight, it's too time taxing. I ran for mayor awhile back as part of an elaborate plan and I ended up going insane because I was getting 60+ pm's a day. So my decision to run for mayor is basically, do I want to even possibly subject myself to that again (as it will affect my performance), or do I take the risk of letting another mafia get into power? And perhaps just as importantly, do I risk trusting the medics to keep me alive (hasn't worked in the past lol). I know I'm going to take hits because red blood will fly. Of course the ideal solution is that I become mayor/pardoner and I stick in the shadows without being bombarbed by half the town every day. You guys okay with that? I simply don't have the time to be answering that many pm's plus doing in depth analysis on a bunch of mafia. My plan is still under construction, not enough time yet to fully get something together. Until that plan is finalized I'll simply try to keep the town on the right track and to get people talking about suspects, because a lot of people are being very suspicious so far. More coming shortly. Okay, so here are my thoughts on the candidates: The most obvious thing first: MasterDana's nonexistent campaign and 2 liner post doesnt show any brain activity/ commitment to the role. I think either of these are pretty self-explanatory as to why we shouldnt elect him. meeple's main arguments are that he played a game where he was elected and the game turned out well for the town. Significant? I think not. BillMurray: "guaranteed liberty"??? Presents some vague clarifications of the game structure and concludes that not voting for him will be a mistake. Well if it was surely you would want to lay out a more coherent campaign convincing us of your special traits or plan. So basically not selling yourself and then blaming people for not voting for you is your fault not theirs. Also there was an incident with him last game so IMO enough responsibility for him. Chezinu: far too weird whats the point of writing gibberish all the time? I find myself subconsciously skipping over his posts and have to really concentrate to read them just for the sake of completeness. l10f: Dont like his campaign motivation plus his first voting decisions are very erratic and irrational. The others I think are all decent candidatures but I find myself disagreeing with some of the stuff. First of all I dont think DrH is a good pick, purely because the "i will lynch whoever the town wants to lycnh" sounds spinelessness to me. Also I dont like how he doesnt present a concrete target himself but agrees with another candidate (BC) on who to lynch, when he should be competing instead. Why should I vote for him rather than that BC in this case? Secondly the thing I dont like so much about citi.zen is that he has established quite a lot of credibility with people playing in Incognito's last game. Sure he did good but he was helped out by some rather unforeseen events and his blues quite a lot. So given this if he turns out to be scum loads of townies will go along with him purely because he played a good townie last game. I.e. there is a risk of the majority accepting his viewpoints not because they have thought it through but because he played well last game and hes a mayor in this game so he must be trustworthy. I dont want to vote for either L or Ace, not because I see anything suspicious about them right now, but purely because not having either of them immune to rolechecks is a good thing. Basically DTs should verify the high profile vets first, since a) The mob is likely to put forward a proven good player and not some lowlife scrub who gains no credibility by himself and b) establishing such a player as a green gives a good foundation on which to build the "circle of trust", and if they are red then their big paper trail will again be useful. This reasoning I think can be applied to BC and Ver as well, since Ver accused BC who basically said whatever. So I think our DTs going for rolechecks on these high rollers first will benefit us in the long run and so we should keep them out of immunity. So based on all of this my conclusion is that I find myself unable to put my finger on someone who I strongly trust. However I think that in all mafia games, indecision along with inactivity are the worst things that can happen. Therefore I will vote for citi.zen purely because I think that the above concerns I had can be rectified if one always keeps his "perceived trustworthiness" in mind when doing analysis.
I gave solid positions on lynchings  , I said my target for the day 1 lynch would be BloodyCobbler but I changed to Bill Murray after his ridiculous posts and "other mafia" slip-up. I don't buy his defense.
IF anything, this shows that I'm objective and will always go after who is most suspicious at a given time, even if that role changes.
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Voting History:
Chezinu: Voted for BloodyCobbler, changed vote to citi.zen, changed vote again to Redtooth, changed back to citi.zen
laaan: Abstained, changed to L
Malongo: Voted for l10f with the message "Dont be a pussy, this guy seems legit."
sidesprang: Abstained
Bill Murray: Voted for meeple, changed to Ver
DoctorHelvetica: Voted for l10f, changed vote to citi.zen
BloodyCobbler: Voted for Ver
Caller: Voted for Ace
Abenson: Abstained, changed vote to Ace
Fulgrim: Voted for Ver
Fishball: Voted for citi.zen
l10f: Abstained
Faronel: Voted for citi.zen
redtooth: Abstained
Ace: Abstained
Mystlord: Abstained
MasterDana: Voted for citi.zen
Ver: Abstained
Nikoner: Abstained
~OpZ~: Voted for L
Amber[LighT]: Voted for Ver
madnessman: Voted for L
dozko: Voted for citi.zen
this is from my notes ;o
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Right now I'm compiling a list of everyones arguments and I'm already finding inconsistency.
I'll share my findings when I'm done.
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Saying "these people are mafia becuase I think they are mafia"
is not reasoning
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20 people?
ok that's completely ridiculous rofl you couldn't even begin to justify that.
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EPT
