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On January 11 2010 15:38 L wrote:
Well, that does indeed explain everything. RoL I'm surprised you didn't realize we were going to kill him given that you knew he wasn't a medic because of your role.
I figured you would aim for Chezinu until he found NemY then it seemed less of a priority. He still could of been GF although I was leaving towards Ace. I knew he wasn't medic and I generally associate lying to mafia. His plan also seemed stupid with a GF role.
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On January 11 2010 15:39 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:39 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win.  Malongo is the town's MVP Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you.
haha that made me think you were mafia when you pulled that shit. Because I told Judge to see how he would respond then you started attacking me randomly and I figured that was you and Judge working together which seemed mafiaish.
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Well fun game guys :D Just a few post game thoughts.
Why did you guys hit HoE night one? That seemed like a really strange decision. You had plenty more good hits in you.
But Judge the main reason your plan didn't work was because of the GF. There is literally no reason to check you as the DT, whatever he gets back won't be mafia no matter what. It could be argued that you could hide a normal mafia by doing this plan (since he won't get checked anyway) which would be an epic move. I was not only against your plan because I was the medic, but it was because your plan hinged on the DT checking you which just wasn't going to happen. Even if he sees green it doesn't matter, you could still be the GF. But yes you could suicide and prove your true allegiance but what would that really accomplish?
Oh and Ace, I think lynching Judge would of actually benefited the town more. A lot of people were still very skeptical about Judge and his plan could not take effect because the DT wouldn't do as he wanted because the GF mechanic made it seem pointless. If Judge died it would of made me suspect either you or L as the GF. The way you were posting was suspicious because I saw the same thing Zato did (I didn't research it nearly as well as he did. Amazing job.) and L was just being abrasive again and is hard to read because he always plays the same.
Judge being alive left too many possibilities and if he died instead of Malongo it would of cleared a lot up for me at least.
The plan ended up not working though, just as Ace said. We won because of Chez's checks and behavior analysis and Zato's amazing GF analysis. I don't think Malongo not killing himself was a big deal.
The only reason Malongo's play MAY have fucked you is simply because you all ended up on the same list which wasn't even that suspicious considering we thought that Judge might of been mafia which meant the people on the Malongo list were more suspect then those on the Judge list. Except obviously to Judge who knew who he was looking at.
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Oh and Ace am I still on your lovely Abyss list? That would be very hurtful 
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On January 11 2010 18:59 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 18:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Oh and Ace am I still on your lovely Abyss list? That would be very hurtful I don't think you need to ask that after protecting YOURSELF twice in a row :D
Fuck that, self preservation. You gave me an immortal role. The fact I didn't role claim and laugh at everyone is impressive to myself.
But yeah, no more self protection  I didn't even bother to think about who to protect. I figure if I keep posting they will think I am blue or catching on to them and hit me. I didn't feel like guessing at who was going to die.
I can also assure you I would of missed both protects both days. If I wasn't going to protect myself Night 1 I would of protected Ace maybe? Dunno. At that time he was being arguing to lynch Judge and wasn't attacking as many townies. Night two I would of protected Chezinu.
So I figure rather then guess where the mafia were, try to trick them into hitting me. I also thought Judge was a mafia so I told him my role and taunted him figuring it would fuck with his head on whether or not to hit me or not.
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Yeah, I think it has always been instantly get your info, although I guess just like mafia hits you could argue that the DT's start their investigation and get their results by morning, but I am cool either way. I think it would make DT's weaker and make the DT and the Vigi not able to act at the exact same time like we saw earlier even though these didn't directly effect each other because Zato didn't use any of Chezinu's info.
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Not picking me out was probably better for you Since hitting me would of wasted a hit. But I will say that I would of attacked Judge just as hard either way. His plan would create confusion and chaos in the town later on as his plan fell apart since no smart DT would check someone who claims to have a plan when there is a godfather who can fake the role. It seems like a waste of power.
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L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting.
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On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1.
We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception.
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lol yeah that game was hilarious. I remember someone saying that the mafia seemed so fucked that the only reason they would stay is if somehow they still had hope from having really good positions.
IE GF coverage on you and Pyrr having been elected.
lol@game
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EPT
