EPTSamsung win the 2017 World Championship! - Page 67
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Join the LiquidLegends 2017 Worlds Pick'em Group! Ban bets!! Ban bets will continue for the duration of Worlds. You can place bet at any phase of Worlds; on individual games, series, whatever your heart desires. Bans will be enacted the day after Worlds ends, to ensure everyone can still post on LL while Worlds is ongoing. glhf~ - Winners in bold - better, better's win condition, bettee [ban duration for loser] - Yorbon, EDG fails to make it out of groups, vs DarkCore [1 week] - Sleight, Fnatic doesn't make it out of groups, vs AlterKot [2:1 weeks] - Apex, Gigabyte getting out of groups as a 1st place seed + TSM will finish 1st in their groups + Samsung will fail to qualify from their group + C9 will get out of their groups, vs JimmiC [1 week] - geript, Korean teams will win a combined 17 or more games in Groups, vs Gahlo [1 month] - geript, NA teams will win a combined 7 or less games in Groups, vs Torchise [1 month] - zer0das, SKT doesn't win Worlds, vs no one [1 year] - Zato-1, NA teams combined wins will be greater than or equal to EU teams combined wins, vs Yorbon [1 month] | ||
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Skitter
United States899 Posts
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Sleight
2471 Posts
On October 19 2017 23:55 Numy wrote: Hahaha. Ok bud. Anyway the exact same thing happened last year. SSG a team that wasn't looking good brought SKT down to 5 sets in the finals. Just because Korea has a very competitive top end does not mean the skill gap between them and everyone else is becoming smaller. You cannot equate group performance to performance in bracket stages. If that were so then the worlds that Ozone failed to get out of groups would be the closest worlds thus the skill gap has only increased since then. Hell that was the worlds Shield a team that was shitter tier before the gauntlet almost beat SKT. The groups format is designed specifically to obscure team strength. That's why every single year we have the exact same chorus with the exact same results at the end of the day. We'll see if this is any different but RNG/China have done this in the past so I'm skeptical. If you are unable to predict an outcome and manner of the occurrence prior to the result, then your understanding was either incorrect or the result was unpredictable, and it is rarely the latter. So even though, we all probably would acknowledge LZ was only a 65-35 favorite at best, 50-50 at worst, no one predicted a stomp. LZ had looked dominant for some time and SSG looked better vs KT but not overwhelmingly so. Even people who thought SSG could win predicted 3-2s or something close. Maybe LZs inexperience as a squad relative to the veteran SSG was the key factor. Maybe it was coaching, maybe it was prep. SSG exploited Cuz and multiple analysts said that they didn't even think that was a real exploitable weakness. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On October 20 2017 01:11 chipmonklord17 wrote: The LoL vod Youtube channel needs to get better with not spoiling series. When you click on game 1 and only see a game 2 and 3 in the related videos you know its a 3-0 by the first game As a default youtube channel, you can't. It's against TOS to put up dummy videos or stretch out videos videos to try and mask game duration. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On October 20 2017 01:32 Gahlo wrote: As a default youtube channel, you can't. It's against TOS to put up dummy videos or stretch out videos videos to try and mask game duration. I swear I've seen channels do it. Like reuploading game 1 as game 4 kind of thing | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On October 20 2017 01:51 chipmonklord17 wrote: I swear I've seen channels do it. Like reuploading game 1 as game 4 kind of thing And if channels do it enough they eventually get flagged and the videos are removed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 19 2017 18:07 DarkCore wrote: Jax hasn't been able to split push pretty much all game, and Malz just shuts him down in team fights. LZ picked an interesting comp that just seems to be hard countered by SSG's. That is just Jax in teamfights. Its incredibly hard to get off melee autos in LOL. His best use is in cleanup turning a 2-1 into a 5-1. It was the job of the 4 man, particularly thresh to just not get into fights (great Gragas ban by SSG). Pray had bad positioning at important times as well. On October 19 2017 18:51 Jindo wrote: Dayummm SSG playing so well. LZ getting crushed Getting outpicked so hard. Lulu-Varus lane, allegedly lane dominant, no CS lead AGAINST TARIC. Jarvan who gets stalled then outscaled by Sej, Ori is too passive for this meta (Taliyah is the superior version of Ryze). The only good pick was Cho. FFS, in G3 Varus losing lane to Trist-Taric again? Cuvee with the 2nd good Shen of the tournament, this is how you make Shen a good pick. Overall P/B is not why Samsung won, but LZ needed to be 20%+ better than Samsung to win each game based on P/B. Jarvan and Varus are deadweight picks if they aren't going forward, but they couldn't setup because Varus was never winning lane and pushing. Splitpushing champions need to get ahead, but that means you need lane priority in mid so your splitpusher can be aggro (which they never had based on picks). I'd say they put a lot of weight on Cuzz be be muuuuch better than Ambition, which he did not do. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Game 1 was largely in LZ's hands early on, BDD got first blood on Crown and easily bullied Crown in lane. Khan was farming rather well in a Jax vs Kennen lane, in part of CuVee missing a lot of last hits early. But then things started to crumble quickly, Khan was never able to split push effectively and BDD in particularly really shit the bed with that Flash Syndra Ulti (ironically what I thought Bjerg should've done more of, lul). So I chalk Game 1 more to LZ throwing their lead and enabling Samsung to do what I said they had to do to win, which was execute superior team fighting. Either way, I'm not disappointed with the results, so congrats to Samsung and Ansi. o/ I'll check out Games 2 and 3 when I'm on the treadmill later today. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
On October 20 2017 01:25 Numy wrote: Go to lolevent vods If you go there you need to be careful if you're watching few hours the match. For example if only 2 or 3 games were uploaded when you start watching and you see everything uploaded later when you want to open another video, you can be sure it was a 3:0. If you just want to get rid of the youtube bar on the right you can watch on eventvods.com. It has youtube videos but covers everything that can spoil the result, even the progress bar. You can rewind by pressing a button but it's a bit annoying because you can't rewind to an exact moment. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
That is just Jax in teamfights. Its incredibly hard to get off melee autos in LOL. His best use is in cleanup turning a 2-1 into a 5-1. It was the job of the 4 man, particularly thresh to just not get into fights (great Gragas ban by SSG). Pray had bad positioning at important times as well. Well yeah, Jax's teamfighting isn't very good, that's his weakness. But SSG played very well around the champ, they were always applying pressure as a team and stopping Jax from going somewhere to split. It was similar in G3, Khan was again on a split pusher, and even got a solo kill, but the game never reached a moment where he could actually go and take towers. And I really do think SSG drafted well against Jax, Malz would often ult Jax, preventing him from doing any damage, making him a useless damage soak. Maybe LZs inexperience as a squad relative to the veteran SSG was the key factor. Maybe it was coaching, maybe it was prep. SSG exploited Cuz and multiple analysts said that they didn't even think that was a real exploitable weakness. I would attribute it mostly to coaching. LZ didn't play particularly bad, but SSG went into the series very well prepared. Solid draft phase, LZ trying to run split push comps twice but failing miserably, the pressure put on Cuzz. LZ tried to adapt a bit, but at the same time they let SSG very obviously draft their power picks (Sej, Trist, Taric) multiple times, when they could've absolutely taken some of them away (Trist and Sej basically fit into any comp). On a side note, is Kalista currently sitting at a 100% ban rate? | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On October 20 2017 03:08 cLutZ wrote: That is just Jax in teamfights. Its incredibly hard to get off melee autos in LOL. His best use is in cleanup turning a 2-1 into a 5-1. It was the job of the 4 man, particularly thresh to just not get into fights (great Gragas ban by SSG). Pray had bad positioning at important times as well. Getting outpicked so hard. Lulu-Varus lane, allegedly lane dominant, no CS lead AGAINST TARIC. Jarvan who gets stalled then outscaled by Sej, Ori is too passive for this meta (Taliyah is the superior version of Ryze). The only good pick was Cho. FFS, in G3 Varus losing lane to Trist-Taric again? Cuvee with the 2nd good Shen of the tournament, this is how you make Shen a good pick. Overall P/B is not why Samsung won, but LZ needed to be 20%+ better than Samsung to win each game based on P/B. Jarvan and Varus are deadweight picks if they aren't going forward, but they couldn't setup because Varus was never winning lane and pushing. Splitpushing champions need to get ahead, but that means you need lane priority in mid so your splitpusher can be aggro (which they never had based on picks). I'd say they put a lot of weight on Cuzz be be muuuuch better than Ambition, which he did not do. Yeah SSG outdrafted. Still don't get you hating on Varus Lulu though. There's apparently also been a shift in the Varus build which is not built for lane at all (Pray and some people have been doing E max and warlord's bloodlust). Not to mention gorilla plays the most e-girl version of lulu and other supports possible as he is the only support at worlds running full gp5 quints and seals. Plus gorilla played like shit as lulu lol. Just look at the stats throughout group stage if you want to see how they did in lane, its not a coincidence varus' GD@10 and CSD@10 was the highest. Not a fan of lulu/varus going bitch builds. Like all of that on top of a doran's shield vs a melee support, that's kind of a joke really. And yeah shen is good especially in capable hands. As CT said "Shen is fucking op with good teams". | ||
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Sleight
2471 Posts
On October 20 2017 06:54 dsyxelic wrote: Yeah SSG outdrafted. Still don't get you hating on Varus Lulu though. There's apparently also been a shift in the Varus build which is not built for lane at all (Pray and some people have been doing E max and warlord's bloodlust). Not to mention gorilla plays the most e-girl version of lulu and other supports possible as he is the only support at worlds running full gp5 quints and seals. Plus gorilla played like shit as lulu lol. Just look at the stats throughout group stage if you want to see how they did in lane, its not a coincidence varus' GD@10 and CSD@10 was the highest. Not a fan of lulu/varus going bitch builds. Like all of that on top of a doran's shield vs a melee support, that's kind of a joke really. And yeah shen is good especially in capable hands. As CT said "Shen is fucking op with good teams". Varus is really oppressive against Twitch and Kog. He is even against Trist and Cait but has better midgame teamfight. Even with Pray and Gorilla phoning it in during game 3, he still looked pretty decent in terms of damage and utility. Varus' stock is rising. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Varus was initially sold as a lane winner, but in all the important games he's been losing pushwars with Trist. That's fine, the backup sale is his guinsoos powerspike. But teams haven't taken advantage of it in any of the important games. There also is the issue of having to try to take advantage of an early powerspike on an immobile ADC. Kog Maws are having a similar issue. They build Rageblade, but can't really siege with it so they wait for the next item. But if you are waiting for a 2 or 3 item spike to be proactive, you should be building for a 3 item powerspike, which means a build that has a good AD/AS balance & Crit (also lifesteal if you can manage). Also these builds just have so much power invested in AS that they have low effective DPS on humans and towers (good dps on Baron though, which is nice). None of these picks are, in a vacuum, terrible, just they have been generally used terribly and I am going to criticize the pick if you pick it while doing all the same dumb things. Before last night all but 1 shen just slowly lost lane and then would mostly ult defensively, and never really threaten much with his double TP power. No Ryze has shown an ability to use ult well. I'm sure people have managed some sick baron plays or rotations with it in scrims, just like I bet some jungle jarvans have snowballed the earlygame hard in scrims, but these all appear to be low % happenings in actual games. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
But yes I do agree it's super mediocre if you're going doran's shield, warlord's bloodlust, e max varus with gp5 quints/seal lulu. Ok then I guess we agree since I'm not going to disagree that even at the worlds level there have been a few teams that have no idea how to use shen or ryze properly. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9299 Posts
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
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