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On May 06 2016 02:14 Saradin wrote:
That is absolutely true. But the other side of that coin is the consequences for not delivering on that. The current state right now does not bode well for G2's brand. They can turn it around by winning from here on out. If that happens, this will be forgotten or laughed off afterwards. But if things remain the same, this just becomes infamous.
Announcing that they took a vacation was just a bad PR move all around. It had practically no upside, paired with plenty of backlash should they end up flaming out. Simply keeping their mouth shut would've been better simply because it wouldn't allow the possibility of stigma on the instinctive level.
Ye whoever decided it was a good idea to reveal to the plebs that they didn't feel like practicing is a retard.
Even fucking clg kept saying "hurr durr we scrim 8 hours a day" when they were getting bopped by everyone.
Those reddit threads are very funny on the whole g2 thing lol
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
At the end of the day what G2 does is up to them. But man was that announcement dumb and it was even dumber of perkz to tweet out that they didn't practice. Bullshit that you worked hard or just stay quiet don't put it out in public that you cba'd as it just looks awful for the brand.
Provides for some spicy memes though so I'm okay with G2's move
Fnatic had a similar crash and burn at 2014 all stars but they mostly kept quiet and didn't let it spiral into a fiesta like G2 have allowed it to so their brand escaped undamaged but wow G2 has burned away a lot of goodwill with how they've handled it.
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On May 06 2016 01:43 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +You shouldn't really use absurd analogies in a discussion, it doesn't prove anything or further the discussion at all. The issue is that the fans feel that they are entitled to watch a team give them selves 100% (instead of like 80%), which they are not. Just like other people cannot demand that I eat healthy. Hence why the analogy is relevant. These fans fits my stereotype of people having nothing else going for them in their life and is living through their own life through the teams. Otherwise there is no reason to get so emotionally invested in G2 not performing well. Would I like G2 to perform better? Yes as a European ofc. But when they don't perform, I am like "oh that sucked. I wished they had practiced more" and then I move on with my life. And sure, if you have constructive criticism/analysis, present that, but stop with the excessive venting. I recommend watching Thorins video on the topic. He focussed more on the ball than the man which I liked. Show nested quote +People are under no responsibility to not be upset for them not trying though either.
And given that logic, I am also allowed to be upset about everything you do in life that you are not doing 100%. In reality, I am not upset because I don't asses my self-worth based on what you are doing in your life. But (some) fans do this about teams, and this is why I find them ridiculous. And now we are touching on another topic: The double-standard. The fans them selves demand that their favourite team works 100% all the time while they constantly cut corners them selves. I know I've taken a ton of shortcuts in my life; hence why I am not a professional gamers or in the absolute top 0.0001% of my field. And I am probably not alone. Thus the core issue I believe is the fans self-esteem/perception of their self-worth (or lack of). If your self-esteem stays unchanged when a team losses, you don't feel "upset" or "insulted" afterwards.
The issue with analogies is that the other parties can create their own absurd analogies to justify the point of view while not actually justifying anything so it comes down to an analogy war which is just pointless. So say for instance I create this analogy: There's a health competition to find out who's the healthiest person in the region. You go train super hard to win this competition but during the competition they announce there's an international competition where the loser of the event gets their national credit rating lowered. Now you've won the first regional competition but decide to pig out in celebration become completely unhealthy by the time the international one arrives. You lose the event, causing outrage from the people. Do you think those people are justified in being upset at you for not trying?
It's easy to create analogies to favor your point of view. They don't accomplish anything.
I'm not really against what you are saying here. It's really just human nature. People take the things they care about and make them part of their identity so anything that's going against that thing they take as a personal affront to themselves. You see this with many facets of life. Religion,politics,employment,family,sports etc.
Really this is all talking purely about a fan perspective. If you look at it from a business it's just insanely stupid. A move like they did will only ever end in their reputation being hurt. There should have been no mention about practicing or vacation. Results may have been unfavorable at the event but people wouldn't have had easy fodder to use against them. G2's crisis control is just fucking horrendous
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Poland3751 Posts
On May 06 2016 02:33 Fusilero wrote:
At the end of the day what G2 does is up to them. But man was that announcement dumb and it was even dumber of perkz to tweet out that they didn't practice. Bullshit that you worked hard or just stay quiet don't put it out in public that you cba'd as it just looks awful for the brand.
Well I actually welcome this honesty. It clearly shows that LCS >> MSI for them and as I'm generally anti-bullshit I can't agree.
Why do you want to hear bullshit?
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On May 06 2016 04:15 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 02:33 Fusilero wrote:
At the end of the day what G2 does is up to them. But man was that announcement dumb and it was even dumber of perkz to tweet out that they didn't practice. Bullshit that you worked hard or just stay quiet don't put it out in public that you cba'd as it just looks awful for the brand. Well I actually welcome this honesty. It clearly shows that LCS >> MSI for them and as I'm generally anti-bullshit I can't agree. Why do you want to hear bullshit?
when your job is to play video games, saying you're too lazy to even do that is pretty sad.
I'd just stay quiet, rather than try and gather sympathy
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On May 06 2016 01:43 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +You shouldn't really use absurd analogies in a discussion, it doesn't prove anything or further the discussion at all. The issue is that the fans feel that they are entitled to watch a team give them selves 100% (instead of like 80%), which they are not. Just like other people cannot demand that I eat healthy. Hence why the analogy is relevant. These fans fits my stereotype of people having nothing else going for them in their life and is living through their own life through the teams. Otherwise there is no reason to get so emotionally invested in G2 not performing well. Would I like G2 to perform better? Yes as a European ofc. But when they don't perform, I am like "oh that sucked. I wished they had practiced more" and then I move on with my life. And sure, if you have constructive criticism/analysis, present that, but stop with the excessive venting. I recommend watching Thorins video on the topic. He focussed more on the ball than the man which I liked. Show nested quote +People are under no responsibility to not be upset for them not trying though either.
And given that logic, I am also allowed to be upset about everything you do in life that you are not doing 100%. In reality, I am not upset because I don't asses my self-worth based on what you are doing in your life. But (some) fans do this about teams, and this is why I find them ridiculous. And now we are touching on another topic: The double-standard. The fans them selves demand that their favourite team works 100% all the time while they constantly cut corners them selves. I know I've taken a ton of shortcuts in my life; hence why I am not a professional gamers or in the absolute top 0.0001% of my field. And I am probably not alone. Thus the core issue I believe is the fans self-esteem/perception of their self-worth (or lack of). If your self-esteem stays unchanged when a team losses, you don't feel "upset" or "insulted" afterwards.
Then why the fuck did they even came ?
Wouldn't have been better to just stay on vacation ?
I mean, I don't care if they do bad or good or w/e (anyway all of that is worthless, just the result @Worlds really count). Thing is, that tweet was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD OMG !!
Would you just go to an important meeting at your job, where you're supposed to do a super important presentation and basically tell everyone that they should go fuck themselves, you just haven't done anything cause you've worked too hard on a previous project and that you did nothing during two weeks cause you felt like that ?
To me, it just comes down to one thing : do you consider them (the players) as professional ? If you do, then, I guess you expect them to behave like professionals. Personnally, I do. So when something like that happen, I do wait for sanctions. If you were to do what I described above at work, no doubt you'd be instant fired. I do not ask for them to be fired, but...
Anyway, I guess the sanctions will come soon enought, and by itself. Lineup won't last very long after that MSI I guess ^^
Anyways, that tweet was soooooo dumb I can't even describe it. couldn't they just keep there mouth shut ? Everyone would have dumpstered them for their results and low level plays, they would have been mocked and laught at, but at least it wouldn't have been such a drama..
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Announcing that they took a vacation was just a bad PR move all around. It had practically no upside, paired with plenty of backlash should they end up flaming out. Simply keeping their mouth shut would've been better simply because it wouldn't allow the possibility of stigma on the instinctive level.
Sure, it's definitely bad PR. They should hire TSM's former head coach for PR management. That guy didn't have any "real" skills but he sure knew how to get the plebs to either sympathize or think that he was going to be a good coach.
Further, I am actually also a bit surprised that Perkz is allowed to use Twitter during the tournament. Shouldn't they focus on the game/improving their leaks? Being exposed to social media's is unlikely to be healthy for the players atm.
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Further, I am actually also a bit surprised that Perkz is allowed to use Twitter during the tournament. Shouldn't they focus on the game/improving their leaks? Being exposed to social media's is unlikely to be healthy for the players atm.
Ahah, especially to post some bullshit like that, he should have miss his turn lmao
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On May 06 2016 04:15 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 02:33 Fusilero wrote:
At the end of the day what G2 does is up to them. But man was that announcement dumb and it was even dumber of perkz to tweet out that they didn't practice. Bullshit that you worked hard or just stay quiet don't put it out in public that you cba'd as it just looks awful for the brand. Well I actually welcome this honesty. It clearly shows that LCS >> MSI for them and as I'm generally anti-bullshit I can't agree. Why do you want to hear bullshit?
You also have the choice of staying quiet. They dont need to feed us with bullshit and they dont need to straight up tell fans lol we didnt practice unlucky
Although clg losing to SM is pretty derp theyre not receiving hate over it because they arent saying retarded things to defend their ego.
Its just incredibly stupid pr wise.
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I get G2's fans being pissed off about it but people are collectively losing their minds over this, reddit is now full of testimonials about how many hours per week each of them works and how much time it has been since their last vacation. Jesus.
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There's still the general sentiment of 'at the end of the day, you're being paid to play games. It is a job; treat it as such'.
Hmm, here's a read worth going through for a few things:
http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/3/19/11269960/open-letter-to-white-sox-players
Now, it deals with some really stupid thing that happened in MLB. Don't focus too much with the specific details; it's not really worth it unless you want some laughs at the absurdity of the situation. But there are ideas to take away on the general relationship between fans/consumers and competitve sports/gaming (sports are still games in the end of the day) as their entertainment. The basic ideas of this relationship, I think, are universal.
Alternatively, the main TLDR takeaway is: Entertainment is our distraction from life outside of work/family obligations. Our time/money/emotions are spent on entertainment. This entertainment is the job of the players/performers. Fans/consumers take this seriously. Fans/consumers damn well want the players/performers to take this seriously too.
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Poland3751 Posts
On May 06 2016 04:38 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 04:15 nimdil wrote:On May 06 2016 02:33 Fusilero wrote:
At the end of the day what G2 does is up to them. But man was that announcement dumb and it was even dumber of perkz to tweet out that they didn't practice. Bullshit that you worked hard or just stay quiet don't put it out in public that you cba'd as it just looks awful for the brand. Well I actually welcome this honesty. It clearly shows that LCS >> MSI for them and as I'm generally anti-bullshit I can't agree. Why do you want to hear bullshit? when your job is to play video games, saying you're too lazy to even do that is pretty sad. I'd just stay quiet, rather than try and gather sympathy
Taking a break after half a season is not being lazy, just making your priorities straight and being honest. When in soccer a team is focusing on league matches and playing in the cup with backup squad nobody is saying that they shouldn't play at all and they are retarded when they say that cup is not really high priority for them.
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On May 06 2016 05:00 Dan HH wrote:
I get G2's fans being pissed off about it but people are collectively losing their minds over this, reddit is now full of testimonials about how many hours per week each of them works and how much time it has been since their last vacation. Jesus.
I think it's an American thing. They seem to love talking about how little time they get for their life outside of work. Really strange to me lol. Why do you pride yourself on living for work
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On May 06 2016 05:34 Saradin wrote:There's still the general sentiment of 'at the end of the day, you're being paid to play games. It is a job; treat it as such'. Hmm, here's a read worth going through for a few things: http://www.southsidesox.com/2016/3/19/11269960/open-letter-to-white-sox-playersNow, it deals with some really stupid thing that happened in MLB. Don't focus too much with the specific details; it's not really worth it unless you want some laughs at the absurdity of the situation. But there are ideas to take away on the general relationship between fans/consumers and competitve sports/gaming (sports are still games in the end of the day) as their entertainment. The basic ideas of this relationship, I think, are universal. Alternatively, the main TLDR takeaway is: Entertainment is our distraction from life outside of work/family obligations. Our time/money/emotions are spent on entertainment. This entertainment is the job of the players/performers. Fans/consumers take this seriously. Fans/consumers damn well want the players/performers to take this seriously too.
Completely ignores it is probably just a job for most of the players who aren't 17 anymore. Typical behaviour of people who can't take a second to look at things from the other person's perspective.
Talking about the tl;dr didn't read the article.
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It's actually more anger than pride. Pride/social requirement to work rediculous hours is Japan's thing. Although it's weighted heavier towards 'social requirement' than 'pride' there.
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There's still the general sentiment of 'at the end of the day, you're being paid to play games. It is a job; treat it as such'.
And that's what they are doing. There is a reason they got the job in the first place and that was because they worked super hard - unlike the people complaining.
But what people are demanding is that they work 100% at the job every single day without taking any vacations for 4 months.
How many people actually does that at their job?
From their perspective, they wanted to take a vacation and they assessed that this was the best time since the practice they otherwise would have gotten in Europe would have been pretty bad. And for various reasons, it was probably impractical to go to Korea.
In hindsight, probably a mistake. That along with the social media policy and the poor PR demonstrates that the organisation is not function optimally. However, don't claim that the players aren't doing their job.
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On May 06 2016 05:44 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +There's still the general sentiment of 'at the end of the day, you're being paid to play games. It is a job; treat it as such'. And that's what they are doing. There is a reason they got the job in the first place and that was because they worked super hard - unlike the people complaining. But what people are demanding is that they work 100% at the job every single day without taking any vacations for over 4 months. How many people actually does that at their job?
A lot of people are young or not in touch with reality.
Really if they actually working 10 hours a day 6 days a week every week then they just doing things really wrong and I'm slightly confusing how that's even legal. Is there no maximum continuous labour hours in EU? I'm of the opinion that they really want to do 4-6 hours of efficient work a day on league then rest as a mixture of rest and taking care of their bodies(physically/mentally). Shouldn't require a 2 week break with a proper laid out schedule that doesn't waste a lot of time or create needless burnout from overworking. Never got why League community in general has such a hardon for "must practice 10 hours a day to get good" idea.
If anything this whole situation shows how terrible their coaching staff and management are. In sports it's pretty important to manage your teams resources and one of those resources is your players mental/physical health.
edit: It's not really common to take off 2 weeks of leave from a job you haven't even been at for 6 months. Football players I think get 3 months every 9 right? Even then if they do international events they get less.
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Then why the fuck did they even came ?
Because its their job and they showed up.
What you basically are saying is this: Why do you even show up to your job after a vacation?
And yes that makes no sense.
where you're supposed to do a super important presentation and basically tell everyone that they should go fuck themselves, you just haven't done anything cause you've worked too hard on a previous project and that you did nothing during two weeks cause you felt like that ?
Terrible example for 2 reasons:
1. In that context the job is to make the presentation. The job of a progamer is not to practice everyday 24/7.
2. In that example he is screwing up the company whom he has a responsbility for. On the other hand, players do not have a contractucal or even ethical responsbility to never take any vacation in case they might dissapoint the fans. That "obligation" only exist in yours and your fanbuddy's imagination.
A better example is this: You work at a job where computers are used and you haven't taking a vacation in months. Then one day the computers stop working and it is told they won't be working for the next 2 weeks.
Since you won't work efficiently while the computers are not working, you ask your boss to allow you to take a vacation during those 2 weeks. He grants you commision, and 2 weeks after you start working again.
Why isn't this a big deal in the above example? Well because there are no ignorant fans who's selfworth is reflected in the employee. So noone is screaming about how the employee is "letting them down".
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generally in sports your supposed to try or at least appear to be trying. I think last year or the year before the Spur's coach got fined a bunch for benching something like his entire starting lineup for a game (which actually had a tactical purpose and rested them.)
It really hurts riot's attempts to market it if people are openly saying they don't care about it/don't bother to practice.
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generally in sports your supposed to try or at least appear to be trying.
Which they were.
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EPT
