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On October 18 2015 02:34 Azarkon wrote:
It's a pitiful excuse at best and no excuse at all at worst. What this worlds has shown is that LPL management completely dropped the ball when it comes to integrating the Korean imports, preparing their teams for worlds, and in thinking about their region's match ups against other regions. The LPL analysts also all failed to see this and even MonteCristo failed to see it.
And no, I don't think teams eg QG and Snake would've been able to out perform the top European and Korean teams here. So enough with the idea that iG and LGD didn't deserve to be here. EDG, which I think nobody thinks is actually worse than QG/Snake, did equally bad.
This isn't a failure of one team, two teams, etc. The entire region failed. It didn't matter which teams they sent. They were ALL out classed.
You're just shifting blame.
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On October 18 2015 02:37 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:34 Azarkon wrote:
It's a pitiful excuse at best and no excuse at all at worst. What this worlds has shown is that LPL management completely dropped the ball when it comes to integrating the Korean imports, preparing their teams for worlds, and in thinking about their region's match ups against other regions. The LPL analysts also all failed to see this and even MonteCristo failed to see it.
And no, I don't think teams eg QG and Snake would've been able to out perform the top European and Korean teams here. So enough with the idea that iG and LGD didn't deserve to be here. EDG, which I think nobody thinks is actually worse than QG/Snake, did equally bad.
This isn't a failure of one team, two team, etc. The entire region failed. I don't think QG/Snake would've done better either. That is by far the dumbest idea I've ever heard. LGD/iG were definitely the stronger teams. A big talking point is also the fact that aside from LPL teams, EVERY other region went to Korea to train for Worlds. To my knowledge, LPL was content enough to just scrim each other thinking they were the dominant region at the time.
I thought they still scrimmed everyone though, just from China? I know on TSM legends they were talking about scrimming an anonymous LPL team.
Again, what i'm saying is NOT that ig/LGD got through cause they 5.16 patch cheesed their way over better Chinese teams, it's that the teams that made it through didn't prepare as well for the new patch going into worlds as the other teams did.
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France12883 Posts
F yeah fnatic, I hoped for a 3-1 or 3-0 and you 4-0ed, beautiful  .
As expected EU and KR masters races :o.
I still don't see the western tears some members wanted tho, haha.
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Australia18228 Posts
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KOO > KT confirmed by Febiven
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On October 18 2015 02:40 Inflicted wrote:
Febiven agrees
KOO > KT
but does 739 agree
and does Spawn think KT will win
much more important questions
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KT > KOO
SKT > Origen
Fnatic / KT cant even decide tbh
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On October 18 2015 02:38 FKAri wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:34 Azarkon wrote:
It's a pitiful excuse at best and no excuse at all at worst. What this worlds has shown is that LPL management completely dropped the ball when it comes to integrating the Korean imports, preparing their teams for worlds, and in thinking about their region's match ups against other regions. The LPL analysts also all failed to see this and even MonteCristo failed to see it.
And no, I don't think teams eg QG and Snake would've been able to out perform the top European and Korean teams here. So enough with the idea that iG and LGD didn't deserve to be here. EDG, which I think nobody thinks is actually worse than QG/Snake, did equally bad.
This isn't a failure of one team, two teams, etc. The entire region failed. It didn't matter which teams they sent. They were ALL out classed. You're just shifting blame.
I'm placing the blame where it ought to be.
To be specific, I think the practice culture in China was and is, above all, the main problem with their region. This talk about Chinese teams/players not practicing, and not try harding in scrims, etc. pervades both Dota and LoL. This is a management issue, and it was shown in full force this worlds by Chinese teams not practicing enough in the new version, not going to Korea to play against the other teams, not working together, etc.
Listen to what people such as Sanshao posted about the way the Koreans structured their scrims, the way the Europeans did, etc. and the way the Chinese did it, and you get what I'm saying. This has actually been a long standing issue in China and it's hurt them in Dota in the past, so I'm easily able to say that it's the same issue in LoL.
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Looks like Febiven showed up huge :D
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On October 18 2015 02:41 Thinasy wrote:
KT > KOO
SKT > Origen
Fnatic / KT cant even decide tbh
Agree, if KT 3-0 or 3-1 Koo convincingly then I pick KT, if it looks a lot closer/KT look sloppy then FNC
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On October 18 2015 02:21 Kavas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I don't wanna live in world where Score is top-3 jungler. I told you since pre-season. Score is a great jungler, better than Bengi. Too bad his teammates aren't the same.
Sadly bengi is best jungler in the world.
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On October 18 2015 02:42 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:21 Kavas wrote:On October 18 2015 02:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I don't wanna live in world where Score is top-3 jungler. I told you since pre-season. Score is a great jungler, better than Bengi. Too bad his teammates aren't the same. Sadly bengi is best jungler in the world.
would love to see benji on a team without the best solo laners in the world to really judge, Marin Faker could make TBQ look good
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fucking annihilated
WP fnatic, grats on the 4-0
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On October 18 2015 02:37 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:34 nafta wrote:On October 18 2015 02:31 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:28 nafta wrote:On October 18 2015 02:27 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:26 nafta wrote:On October 18 2015 02:25 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 18 2015 02:22 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:22 MuddyJam wrote:
they going to stop sandbaging yet? next worlds best believe With GODV's varus Q there they might have a shot. honestly think 5.16 was huge in China's downfall like yeah at some point that doesn't excuse everything but they had such amazing p/bs in LPL and they go to worlds and look clueless, all the other major regions (except maybe NA) just got a better grasp on the patch, faster. again china is the only region who had 2 teams qualify from 5.16 while na/eu played on 5.14 entirely playing on 5.16 like half a week after it's out and teams weren't taking full advantage of darius/gp etc. and actually understanding the juggernaut meta are 2 separate things though. Yea but how can you use it as an excuse then? The other regions qualified on a patch that has nothing to do with this one. In lpl they played those same champions that are played right now and the team that could play them the best qualified. Hell ig qualified mostly because of this patch. because like I said, playing on the patch (with op skarner, without hotfix Darius, with players playing GP poorly, without fiora being a huge pick in the meta), is different from understanding the meta. Like if I'm saying the big problem is them not understanding p/b and both teams aren't running juggernaut style comps, then having a couple series on the 5.16 patch less than a week after it comes out doesn't mean that they understand the patch at all. Like look at the champs they played in that gauntlet. Heca/mao/gnar/lulu top still the meta, no darius, no fiora, barely any GP, no Tahm Kench, Azir/viktor still dominant, etc. But the other regions had it worse. How can you use it as an excuse? Also fiora was a huge pick pls. I am not saying they understand the meta. It isn't like all teams came in this tournament perfectly understanding the meta. Everyone's p/b has changed compared to their first games. http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_LPL_Summer/Scoreboards/Bracket_Stage/Gauntletshow me where fiora was p/b throughout the gauntlet. It's not an excuse, I'm just saying them adapting really poorly was a huge factor in them not doing well. P/b is a part of the game and being strong/weak in it is part of what makes you a good/bad team, just that I think if riot didn't massively shake up the meta right before worlds they would have done better. No one really understood the meta at the start but you can't deny that China has had the worst p/b/draft/gameplan this series. Like it was LGD who fucking let Morde through multiple times in groups. EDG's Morde comp was easily the worst comp at worlds, period. But look at LPL playoffs/regional finals, almost all of the comps from the teams that made it through made perfect sense for the meta at the time.
Your link is wrong. That is not how ig+edg qualified. That is patch 5.14
http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/2015_Season_China_Regional_Finals
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On October 18 2015 02:42 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:38 FKAri wrote:On October 18 2015 02:34 Azarkon wrote:
It's a pitiful excuse at best and no excuse at all at worst. What this worlds has shown is that LPL management completely dropped the ball when it comes to integrating the Korean imports, preparing their teams for worlds, and in thinking about their region's match ups against other regions. The LPL analysts also all failed to see this and even MonteCristo failed to see it.
And no, I don't think teams eg QG and Snake would've been able to out perform the top European and Korean teams here. So enough with the idea that iG and LGD didn't deserve to be here. EDG, which I think nobody thinks is actually worse than QG/Snake, did equally bad.
This isn't a failure of one team, two teams, etc. The entire region failed. It didn't matter which teams they sent. They were ALL out classed. You're just shifting blame. I'm placing the blame where it ought to be. To be specific, I think the practice culture in China was and is, above all, the main problem with their region. This talk about Chinese teams/players not practicing, and not try harding in scrims, etc. pervades both Dota and LoL. This is a management issue, and it was shown in full force this worlds by Chinese teams not practicing in the new version, not going to Korea to play against the other teams, not working together, etc. Listen to what people such as Sanshao posted about the way the Koreans structured their scrims, the way the Europeans did, etc. and the way the Chinese did it, and you get what I'm saying. This has actually been a long standing issue in China and it's hurt them in Dota in the past, so I'm easily able to say that it's the same issue in LoL.
Why are they so successful in dota2 with a much smaller playerbase?
I think China might have the same issue as NA. Where streaming is so lucrative that being a pro is more stress for a marginal gain. The talent doesn't really want to go pro and when it does it's more about enjoying the short ride.
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On October 18 2015 02:42 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:21 Kavas wrote:On October 18 2015 02:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I don't wanna live in world where Score is top-3 jungler. I told you since pre-season. Score is a great jungler, better than Bengi. Too bad his teammates aren't the same. Sadly bengi is best jungler in the world.
He has molded his style to really fit what the team needs. He might be the best jungler for his team and not even close to the best jungler in the world at the same time.
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Realfoxy is best jungler World.
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On October 18 2015 02:46 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2015 02:37 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:34 nafta wrote:On October 18 2015 02:31 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:28 nafta wrote:On October 18 2015 02:27 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:26 nafta wrote:On October 18 2015 02:25 DystopiaX wrote:On October 18 2015 02:23 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 18 2015 02:22 DystopiaX wrote:
[quote]
next worlds best believe With GODV's varus Q there they might have a shot. honestly think 5.16 was huge in China's downfall like yeah at some point that doesn't excuse everything but they had such amazing p/bs in LPL and they go to worlds and look clueless, all the other major regions (except maybe NA) just got a better grasp on the patch, faster. again china is the only region who had 2 teams qualify from 5.16 while na/eu played on 5.14 entirely playing on 5.16 like half a week after it's out and teams weren't taking full advantage of darius/gp etc. and actually understanding the juggernaut meta are 2 separate things though. Yea but how can you use it as an excuse then? The other regions qualified on a patch that has nothing to do with this one. In lpl they played those same champions that are played right now and the team that could play them the best qualified. Hell ig qualified mostly because of this patch. because like I said, playing on the patch (with op skarner, without hotfix Darius, with players playing GP poorly, without fiora being a huge pick in the meta), is different from understanding the meta. Like if I'm saying the big problem is them not understanding p/b and both teams aren't running juggernaut style comps, then having a couple series on the 5.16 patch less than a week after it comes out doesn't mean that they understand the patch at all. Like look at the champs they played in that gauntlet. Heca/mao/gnar/lulu top still the meta, no darius, no fiora, barely any GP, no Tahm Kench, Azir/viktor still dominant, etc. But the other regions had it worse. How can you use it as an excuse? Also fiora was a huge pick pls. I am not saying they understand the meta. It isn't like all teams came in this tournament perfectly understanding the meta. Everyone's p/b has changed compared to their first games. http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_LPL_Summer/Scoreboards/Bracket_Stage/Gauntletshow me where fiora was p/b throughout the gauntlet. It's not an excuse, I'm just saying them adapting really poorly was a huge factor in them not doing well. P/b is a part of the game and being strong/weak in it is part of what makes you a good/bad team, just that I think if riot didn't massively shake up the meta right before worlds they would have done better. No one really understood the meta at the start but you can't deny that China has had the worst p/b/draft/gameplan this series. Like it was LGD who fucking let Morde through multiple times in groups. EDG's Morde comp was easily the worst comp at worlds, period. But look at LPL playoffs/regional finals, almost all of the comps from the teams that made it through made perfect sense for the meta at the time. Your link is wrong. That is not how ig+edg qualified. http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/2015_Season_China_Regional_Finals
mb on the link, but the point still stands. Other than Fiora p/b no darius hotfix, no morde at all. etc.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 18 2015 02:46 FKAri wrote:
Why are they so successful in dota2 with a much smaller playerbase?
I think China might have the same issue as NA. Where streaming is so lucrative that being a pro is more stress for a marginal gain. The talent doesn't really want to go pro and when it does it's more about enjoying the short ride.
They're successful in DotA 2 because they had an enormous head start on the West from being the only region taking DotA 1 seriously prior to DotA 2's release, and because they learned a fair number of these lessons the hard way from crashing and burning in prior seasons.
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EPT
