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On October 05 2015 08:02 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 07:48 Numy wrote:
MSI had meaning? That's new to me. Only reason that tournament is even on the radar is because Fnatic proved that they weren't terrible by going 2-3 vs SKT. A small tournament with 1 team from each region doesn't really mean much to the scene, nor does it really mean anything for 95% of other teams. Doesn't really change much about teams needing to play different formats.
Why would you bring it up? One word response doesn't really tell me anything. Is it mean to "end" the discussion somehow? You talking to me? I don't see a point talking to ppl that never saw LGD play outside Worlds and are going crazy, because C9 won 3 bo1's on most random patch ever when they use one strategy and when I'm point out that I'm salty retard.
Wait, how is this a random patch? Lol, it's been out for 3 weeks, and Riot said Worlds would be played on this patch. If LGD can't figure out a patch in 3-weeks while everyone else could, LGD is trash.
Also, one-strategy is fine. Look at KTB in Season 3. Dominant team, made it to finals off of one fast-push strat until they lost to SKT 2-3.
To the person who posted the korean caster quotes, thanks. It's pretty cool to see those. :3
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On October 05 2015 09:56 Kinie wrote:
For some reason the Chinese teams just seem to be choking and arguing so much, and their pick/ban has been so sloppy/bad, that even with how strong the individual players are, that strength isn't carrying them as much as they thought it would against the other teams.
Also, the fact that the other regions seem to have forgotten how to deal/handle the fast push strategy (which is probably the one thing NA does well) is what's carrying the NA teams more than anything else.
EU is being EU, so no surprises here.
Korea being Korea too, again no real surprises.
The Wild Card teams are doing fine, definitely the strongest teams this year.
Also, pretty sure that c9's run is wrecking everyone's gauntlet they made on LoL, rip any chance of us getting Champion Riven skin.
I don't think we should be judging China off LGD's complete implosion. There are some heavy internal strifes from the big look of things as many things they are doing look to be a problem of every player just on their own game plan. I am not surprised at all to hear that there's lots of arguments between players and it's very likely the stress of worlds simply cracked some of the first timers on the team.
iG is heavily inconsistent and EDG never likes showing strats or full strength once they are "assured out of groups".
In fact, I think there's really only two big outliers this tourney if you think of everything. C9/LGD both mirroring opposite expected trajectories of their expectations. It's sad because this Worlds is likely the only time most people have even seen LGD and now just assumed they're an overhyped team despite how amazing their latter half LPL season looked and their spring split.
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yeah I hope LGD are able to turn it around in their matches next week. Even if other teams take care of their shit and they can't advance anyway, I at least want to see good LGD/get all the people who didn't watch LPL to recognize that they are/were/could be a top class team.
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*Wakes up and sees that Pain won while I was sleep*
What the hell is going on........... unreal. LOL
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
My eyes focused on Group B to be honest.
I hope D is donezo and LGD will burn in flames and go like 1-5 or 0-6, huehue.
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On October 05 2015 13:45 739 wrote:
My eyes focused on Group B to be honest.
I hope D is donezo and LGD will burn in flames and go like 1-5 or 0-6, huehue.
Share the 1-5 with TSM please
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Australia18228 Posts
With Fnatic/LGD imploding, I don't think EDG should care about 1st anymore
OG/KT are equally strong and EDG should be fine against any of the other teams
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On October 05 2015 09:33 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
I'd say biggest upset thus far is just relative strength of regions. Consensus opinion seemed to be that 2 western teams would make it out of group stages: CLG on account of easy group and Fnatic on account of actually being good, CLG would be knocked out on quarters, Fnatic MAYBE could advance to semis but no farther. Some were even predicting no western teams would make it out of groups at all.
The way it's looking, 3 western teams are very likely to advance right now: CLG on account of easy group, C9 and OG on account of looking pretty good. Fnatic has best chance of advancing out of group B besides C9 IMO, TSM has a nonzero chance of overtaking KT in group D, and even though mathematically H2K are still very much in the running in group C, I count them as dead in the water. All in all, I'm expecting 4 western teams to make it out of groups: CLG, C9, Fnatic, OG- alongside 4 asian teams, KOO, SKT, EDG & KT. You can certainly argue about the number of western teams that will make it out, and also argue as to why they've had this level of performance; maybe Chinese teams besides EDG are slumping or failing to adapt to the patch, maybe the western teams have just had lucky bo1 results thus far, or maybe western teams really are close to Korea's level and above China's level. What you can't argue with is the results- that western teams have greatly exceeded expectations so far.
My own analysis is that games look messy and low quality as a direct result of relatively even games on a brawly, juggernaut-dominated patch; if the patch was more about engage vs. disengage, or about split-pushing, or if the strength disparity of the teams was greater, games would look a lot cleaner overall. But clean games =/= high level games, and messy games full of fighting aren't necessarily low-level; heck, most of the time China's been considered a strong region, their messy, action-packed playstyle was considered a feature, not a drawback.
Korea is currently looking like the strongest region overall, with all of their teams having more wins than losses- and if SKT really is far and away the best Korean team, they're looking like the team to beat. Actually, the biggest take away from this entire tournament, I hope, is going to be that simply buying top players does not work. Buying an entire team, and having that team keep the same environment it did before, but simply switch sponsors, sure, that works. But what China did does not, because a scene's success in eSports is an entire package, an industry so to speak, not just the sum of a handful of players. And it's not as much about superficial infrastructure - ie "we have coaches" - as it is about gaming culture & less obvious infrastructural differences - ie "our coaches are experienced and stable." Of course, for this take away to work, we have to see EDG not win, as EDG winning MSI actually took away from the argument as it showed that purchasing top players does work. However, that was then - a few months after the player changes. Now, with Origen out performing Fnatic and C9 at the top of their group, the argument is swinging the other way - ie Korean talent is a lot less useful than people think.
I think anyone would agree that it is the sum of the parts rather than just individual talent. You cannot do shit if you have dead weight or communication issues. I thought that would be the biggest take away with Koreans going to China.
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On October 05 2015 07:00 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 06:46 krndandaman wrote:On October 05 2015 06:34 orzeu wrote:On October 05 2015 06:29 krndandaman wrote:On October 05 2015 06:16 orzeu wrote:On October 05 2015 06:09 krndandaman wrote:On October 05 2015 05:16 Lonyo wrote:
C9 and OG in playoffs were doing well. If you ignore regular season C9's position and the fact OG only made it through because of when the team formed, then it's reasonable they are doing well. OG i'm not too surprised by but C9 really did look awful in the regionals despite winning. especially with how close the series were against other bad teams (two 3-2's, and 3-1). the amumu/karma/shyvana seriously threw me off lol. but c9 seems to have a really good read on the meta right now and hai/lemon has given up on the stupid shit lol. og's definitely exceeded my expectations but I knew they were good. just turns out they were even better. C9 played literally one team comp, lemon is still shit, he died like a retard so many times. im talking about champion picks like the stupid karma shyvana mumu. also they didn't play one comp and even if they did I don't see how that's a slight against them since they clearly are making many picks ban priority to the point that other teams are having trouble figuring out bans. On October 05 2015 06:26 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Imagine if Hai were the jungler for LGD. assuming lgd can function with hai's shotcalling (english+ harder to micromanage in other language) then yeah. but hey even that's probably better than LBQ. Pyl is way better shotcaller then Hai? One shit tournament doesn't change that. rofl that strawman I don't see the point of bringing up who's historically the better shotcaller since that's totally irrelevant right now. I'm talking about the present and hai as a shotcaller has been much more effective than PYL this tournament. PYL going full dora vs TSM and picking those terrible fights (not calling TP's either) have been absolutely terrible. save the historical comparison for later. On October 05 2015 06:36 orzeu wrote:On October 05 2015 06:35 Itsmedudeman wrote:
When it's the world championship it does. So, Sneaky > Imp, Incarnation > Godv?. Great logic. it doesn't mean everything but it matters much more than domestic leagues. I also don't see how this is relevant to anything. Yeah, 3 bo1's on random patch > whole 2015 performance.
Just like looking at their performance in one split during another patch means a whole lot right? The thing is other than this split when C9 made it they looked dominant and Hai puts them on point and gives them the direction they need to win games o-O
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On October 05 2015 08:36 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 08:18 geript wrote:On October 05 2015 07:55 Sufficiency wrote:On October 05 2015 07:21 wei2coolman wrote:
Pretty much everyone's idea of pro league of legends is fucking bork'd after the first week of Worlds'. Beside how C9 is currently 3-0 (note: in an arguably weak group without Korean teams), I don't think any of the other scenarios were inconceivable. Idk. LGD going 0-3 and TSM winning a game were both pretty inconceivable. In order of likelihood, I'd have ranked TSM winning a game, then C9 going 3-0 then LGD going 0-3. I think LGD was more of a question mark coming in. They had never competed internationally and their coach just left due to internal issues.
That's a really strong point.
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It'll be interesting to see how the different coaching/support staff handle the prep for the upcoming games, especially in terms of team atmosphere. Will any of the other CN teams throw LGD a bone / some hugs? Will Maple find his mojo again? Will getting pentakilled by Balls tilt FNC out of the Schengen Area?
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France12883 Posts
On October 05 2015 08:41 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 08:37 Poopi wrote:
Before the LGD vs TSN game, the casters were saying that LGD workroom (not sure of the right word sorry) was very loud, people arguing and screaming, after the lose vs KT.
This plus the Acorn interview, it will be very hard for them to recover in so few days but maybe? Really? That doesn't bode well. Was this on the english or french stream?
It was on the french stream.
So, LGD can at best tie-up with KT right? Assuming they win all their matches, TSM lose all, AND KT doesn't beat OG (or they beat them but they lose to TSM...). That doesn't look well indeed.
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CLG and Koo still look to be the favorites to advance out of group A, but Pain or Flash Wolves can play spoiler to which one gets first and which gets second.
Group B is in complete chaos, as things stand I think if C9 win 1 more game they're like 99% locked to advance out. Fnatic can still turn it around, Huni just needs to get his head on straight and they need to have a better pick/ban. I'm not sure if iG can turn it around in time, but they could play steal the spot from Fnatic.
Group C is the only one playing out like everyone thought it would, so that's re-assuring.
Group D is weird. Xpeke is playing well, and Origen seem to be carrying that momentum into week 2. KT is doing about as well as can be expected, and the fact that TSM won a game means the trip wasn't a complete waste. LGD's chances of getting out of the group are slim now; they have to win the last 3 games and hope that Origen beats up TSM and KT, and TSM steals another game from KT.
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i don't think it's fair to count fnatic out yet.
it seems to boil down largely due to bad drafts and huni playing poorly.
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Poland3748 Posts
On October 05 2015 09:54 Flakes wrote:some interesting translations of the korean casters on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3ngg8i/spoiler_korean_casters_opinions_day_4/Seems they're pretty respectful of the western teams and know how to recognize the good plays along with the misplays. samples: KT vs Origen + Show Spoiler +(21:19) DongJun Kim: fiora has bf sword.
Cpt Jack: that means fiora is just going to split, but i don't think he can win olaf.
this might cause both tf and fiora to defend olaf.
CloudTemplar: kt is getting kog big slowly while origen is playing frentically all over the map.
(23:00 - baron) CloudTemplar: they were frantically playing everywhere and they got baron.
Kim: the whole game has been hard for origen, but they didn't get shaken up. Very impressive.
(24:10) CloudTemplar: split seems easy, but it's also very difficult. But, origen is doing that so well. Not even Korean team can split push this well. C9 vs Fnatic + Show Spoiler +Kim: PENTAKILL. Balls got penta kill. Balls got penta kill.
CloudTemplar: Does Slamdunk Darius skin have a problem?
YongJoon Jeon: Worlds' 1st pentakill.
CloudTemplar: and even Balls did it. Balls is the one with pentakill.
Cpt Jack: With easy and strong Darius.
(gg) CloudTemplar: yasuo was behind, but he came back. However, c9's shotcalling was too amazing.
Also, for some weird reason, darius ult smashed heads well.
Kim: Q and RRRRRRRR.
Cpt Jack: easy and strong.
Kim: Hai and his shotcalling.
(replay) Cpt Jack: one person died too fast, so darius passive got up.
CloudTemplar: balls' positioning.
Cpt Jack: he carried through positioning.
But, this game was about Hai's baron shotcall. That carried c9.
Kim: this shows why C9 has a lot of Korean fans.
Jeon: Whoever made that tier list from Riot would have to get punished lol.
Cpt Jack: I think it's amazing how they create opportunities themselves and it's something i should learn.
Nice to read. Though it would be hard to deny respoect to two 3-0 teams. Like - there are three 3-0 teams and two are from the west.
And it's also cool that while C9 is cindirella story, so is Origens. True - C9 is garbage early summer split and barely qualified. But Origen is in one year from challenger to 3-0 worlds.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Imp had a long talk about the tournament so far but it's the usual "atmosphere bad, we didn't practice, cheer for my team mates" stuff so here's the most notable thing that says Imp will probably retire soon but he wants to stay in China.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
i'd hate to be an air conditioner in the LGD practice room right now
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Poland3748 Posts
"From the viewers perspective, perhaps this has been the most exciting Worlds with no absolute powerhouse dominating."
Someone missed the fact that SKT not only is 3-0 but unlike C9 and Origen crushed its opponents.
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So my worlds pickem... group A and C i got right so far, but i deeply apologize to OG and C9 because i had them 3rd / 4th xD well much better this way than the other way around!
my predictions before the 2nd half starts:
A: Koo / CLG (seems reasonable)
B: C9 / FNC (hope C9 gets 1st as a reward for their great performance, and that FNC can brawl themselves to 2nd)
C: SKT / EDG (anyone thinks differently?)
D: OG / KT (or vice versa, but those 2 teams should be in quarters)
some more on FNC... pls p/b properly for a strong comp, and please yellowstar keep the shotcalls coming, both lost games it looked like they just stopped planning ahead...
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EPT
