On May 03 2015 19:04 skykh wrote: U guys rank ezhoon top 3 mid in the world now? If he is so good he should at least reach the finals one time with blue or skt t s right?
Why do you think SK Telecom S was able to reach the round of four? Because it sure as wasn't due to MaRin who couldn't play Shyvanna to save his life. The bottom lane who carried during the laning phase only to throw it all away later on a-la Doublelift. And don't even get me started on the brainless dolt they had for a jungler. Eazyhoon was always rated highly by his peers, and while that alone does not always carry into results, we can be sure of this much for sure. They are way better at judging individual talent than you.
Now either accept the fact that you were late to notice the obvious calibre of Eazyhoon, or go gollow the Thorin route and come up with non-sensical hypotheticals you wouldn't dare apply to your own favourite players.
By having Frost and Bigfile in their group, then playing Sword(Hi GET!) in 8s.
They lost 2-3 to the eventual winners, and only because H0R0 was heavily outclassed by his jungling counterpart. SK Telecom S was not a championship material team, but because of the hard carrying force of Eazyhoon, and some strength from the bottom lane, they were able to upset the likes of Samsung Galaxy White multiple times during the Masters and group stages of the OGN despite having one of the weakest jungler out of the top level teams. Considering all the teams that had shit junglers in that season were stomped by teams with superior junglers, getting fourth was no easy feat. By the way, getting fourth was a better result than what SK Telecom T1 K ever achieved that season. What does that say about Faker? Fuck all. Can we seriously stop taking Montecristo's personal opinions, Reddit memes, and whoever circle-jerk that was trending at the time as the gospel truth, and actually do some critical thinking, or at least try to understand what the general consensus was among the professionals and insiders (yes Montecristo is one of them, but there are many more, some of whom are more well connected and more knowledgeable), before trying to knot together random memes from Reddit with pseudo-analysis and logic?
You know who else lost to KTA in game 5s? Everybody. Kakao and Rookie absolutely bodied everybody when unfettered by bans, going 11/9/43(6KDA) and 20/8/38(7.25KDA) in those games. Are you really going to bring up a best of 1 in a tournament that didn't matter against SSW when Pawn was on the team for less than 3 months like it means anything because SSW won worlds half a year later? Give me a break. + Show Spoiler +
By the way, if you do, SSW beat SKTS handily less than 2 months later in the finals of said tournament.
So yeah, I guess, congrats to SKTS for getting 4th in Summer, but when your group consists of trash like Frost(5-8th in NLB) and Bigfile(17-20th, losing to VTG 2+ Show Spoiler +
Literally. Who.
) it's an embarrassment if they didn't make it out. Then in the quarters, they played the 7th worst team of the playoff qualifiers so they can get bounced in semis' blind pick and then get destroyed in 3rd/4th by SSW 3-0, worse than what SKTK was able to muster against them in quarters.
SKTS was at best the 5th best team in that playoffs, but I'd probably place NJWS ahead of them too. I don't need Monte or some magical access to inside sources that I don't have access to to be able to arrive to my view point. I have history as it actually played out.
5th best or 6th best in the old OGN is still a fairly respectable placing. It had 16 teams, and at least 4 of them were elite. I also think many people are tricked by the Najin performance at S4 worlds. you have to understand that different teams are the ones that you would have wanted to go to international competition, and of the good Korean teams, Shield was last.
I remember pre-Gauntlet and during OGN Summer I was QQing about how Shield always got easy brackets and was going to get an auto-bid in lieu of SKT/White because those 2+Blue were on the same side in Spring/Summer, then was happy when KTA stopped that from happening. Then there was the infamous "Watch Gauntlet" performance. Almost anyone who understands LOL thinks that KTA/SKT1K/SKT1S would be more likely to do well representing internationally. Which is why people wanted SKT instead of GE this time around.
By the way I don't know why it always seems hard to find out when players arrived at a tournament location. It's a crucial information in my opinion because jet lag is serious business and I'd like to know when each team arrives for this MSI.
On May 03 2015 19:04 skykh wrote: U guys rank ezhoon top 3 mid in the world now? If he is so good he should at least reach the finals one time with blue or skt t s right?
Why do you think SK Telecom S was able to reach the round of four? Because it sure as wasn't due to MaRin who couldn't play Shyvanna to save his life. The bottom lane who carried during the laning phase only to throw it all away later on a-la Doublelift. And don't even get me started on the brainless dolt they had for a jungler. Eazyhoon was always rated highly by his peers, and while that alone does not always carry into results, we can be sure of this much for sure. They are way better at judging individual talent than you.
Now either accept the fact that you were late to notice the obvious calibre of Eazyhoon, or go gollow the Thorin route and come up with non-sensical hypotheticals you wouldn't dare apply to your own favourite players.
By having Frost and Bigfile in their group, then playing Sword(Hi GET!) in 8s.
They lost 2-3 to the eventual winners, and only because H0R0 was heavily outclassed by his jungling counterpart. SK Telecom S was not a championship material team, but because of the hard carrying force of Eazyhoon, and some strength from the bottom lane, they were able to upset the likes of Samsung Galaxy White multiple times during the Masters and group stages of the OGN despite having one of the weakest jungler out of the top level teams. Considering all the teams that had shit junglers in that season were stomped by teams with superior junglers, getting fourth was no easy feat. By the way, getting fourth was a better result than what SK Telecom T1 K ever achieved that season. What does that say about Faker? Fuck all. Can we seriously stop taking Montecristo's personal opinions, Reddit memes, and whoever circle-jerk that was trending at the time as the gospel truth, and actually do some critical thinking, or at least try to understand what the general consensus was among the professionals and insiders (yes Montecristo is one of them, but there are many more, some of whom are more well connected and more knowledgeable), before trying to knot together random memes from Reddit with pseudo-analysis and logic?
You know who else lost to KTA in game 5s? Everybody. Kakao and Rookie absolutely bodied everybody when unfettered by bans, going 11/9/43(6KDA) and 20/8/38(7.25KDA) in those games. Are you really going to bring up a best of 1 in a tournament that didn't matter against SSW when Pawn was on the team for less than 3 months like it means anything because SSW won worlds half a year later? Give me a break. + Show Spoiler +
By the way, if you do, SSW beat SKTS handily less than 2 months later in the finals of said tournament.
So yeah, I guess, congrats to SKTS for getting 4th in Summer, but when your group consists of trash like Frost(5-8th in NLB) and Bigfile(17-20th, losing to VTG 2+ Show Spoiler +
Literally. Who.
) it's an embarrassment if they didn't make it out. Then in the quarters, they played the 7th worst team of the playoff qualifiers so they can get bounced in semis' blind pick and then get destroyed in 3rd/4th by SSW 3-0, worse than what SKTK was able to muster against them in quarters.
SKTS was at best the 5th best team in that playoffs, but I'd probably place NJWS ahead of them too. I don't need Monte or some magical access to inside sources that I don't have access to to be able to arrive to my view point. I have history as it actually played out.
5th best or 6th best in the old OGN is still a fairly respectable placing. It had 16 teams, and at least 4 of them were elite. I also think many people are tricked by the Najin performance at S4 worlds. you have to understand that different teams are the ones that you would have wanted to go to international competition, and of the good Korean teams, Shield was last.
I remember pre-Gauntlet and during OGN Summer I was QQing about how Shield always got easy brackets and was going to get an auto-bid in lieu of SKT/White because those 2+Blue were on the same side in Spring/Summer, then was happy when KTA stopped that from happening. Then there was the infamous "Watch Gauntlet" performance. Almost anyone who understands LOL thinks that KTA/SKT1K/SKT1S would be more likely to do well representing internationally. Which is why people wanted SKT instead of GE this time around.
Yeah, Shield making it through the gauntlet was infuriating as fuck, if not for Faker bandwagoners being sad about him not being able to make it to Worlds.
Rewinding it back the entire discussion was how Korea isn't "Korea" anymore.
On May 03 2015 19:04 skykh wrote: U guys rank ezhoon top 3 mid in the world now? If he is so good he should at least reach the finals one time with blue or skt t s right?
Why do you think SK Telecom S was able to reach the round of four? Because it sure as wasn't due to MaRin who couldn't play Shyvanna to save his life. The bottom lane who carried during the laning phase only to throw it all away later on a-la Doublelift. And don't even get me started on the brainless dolt they had for a jungler. Eazyhoon was always rated highly by his peers, and while that alone does not always carry into results, we can be sure of this much for sure. They are way better at judging individual talent than you.
Now either accept the fact that you were late to notice the obvious calibre of Eazyhoon, or go gollow the Thorin route and come up with non-sensical hypotheticals you wouldn't dare apply to your own favourite players.
By having Frost and Bigfile in their group, then playing Sword(Hi GET!) in 8s.
They lost 2-3 to the eventual winners, and only because H0R0 was heavily outclassed by his jungling counterpart. SK Telecom S was not a championship material team, but because of the hard carrying force of Eazyhoon, and some strength from the bottom lane, they were able to upset the likes of Samsung Galaxy White multiple times during the Masters and group stages of the OGN despite having one of the weakest jungler out of the top level teams. Considering all the teams that had shit junglers in that season were stomped by teams with superior junglers, getting fourth was no easy feat. By the way, getting fourth was a better result than what SK Telecom T1 K ever achieved that season. What does that say about Faker? Fuck all. Can we seriously stop taking Montecristo's personal opinions, Reddit memes, and whoever circle-jerk that was trending at the time as the gospel truth, and actually do some critical thinking, or at least try to understand what the general consensus was among the professionals and insiders (yes Montecristo is one of them, but there are many more, some of whom are more well connected and more knowledgeable), before trying to knot together random memes from Reddit with pseudo-analysis and logic?
You know who else lost to KTA in game 5s? Everybody. Kakao and Rookie absolutely bodied everybody when unfettered by bans, going 11/9/43(6KDA) and 20/8/38(7.25KDA) in those games. Are you really going to bring up a best of 1 in a tournament that didn't matter against SSW when Pawn was on the team for less than 3 months like it means anything because SSW won worlds half a year later? Give me a break. + Show Spoiler +
By the way, if you do, SSW beat SKTS handily less than 2 months later in the finals of said tournament.
So yeah, I guess, congrats to SKTS for getting 4th in Summer, but when your group consists of trash like Frost(5-8th in NLB) and Bigfile(17-20th, losing to VTG 2+ Show Spoiler +
Literally. Who.
) it's an embarrassment if they didn't make it out. Then in the quarters, they played the 7th worst team of the playoff qualifiers so they can get bounced in semis' blind pick and then get destroyed in 3rd/4th by SSW 3-0, worse than what SKTK was able to muster against them in quarters.
SKTS was at best the 5th best team in that playoffs, but I'd probably place NJWS ahead of them too. I don't need Monte or some magical access to inside sources that I don't have access to to be able to arrive to my view point. I have history as it actually played out.
5th best or 6th best in the old OGN is still a fairly respectable placing. It had 16 teams, and at least 4 of them were elite. I also think many people are tricked by the Najin performance at S4 worlds. you have to understand that different teams are the ones that you would have wanted to go to international competition, and of the good Korean teams, Shield was last.
I remember pre-Gauntlet and during OGN Summer I was QQing about how Shield always got easy brackets and was going to get an auto-bid in lieu of SKT/White because those 2+Blue were on the same side in Spring/Summer, then was happy when KTA stopped that from happening. Then there was the infamous "Watch Gauntlet" performance. Almost anyone who understands LOL thinks that KTA/SKT1K/SKT1S would be more likely to do well representing internationally. Which is why people wanted SKT instead of GE this time around.
Yeah, Shield making it through the gauntlet was infuriating as fuck, if not for Faker bandwagoners being sad about him not being able to make it to Worlds.
Rewinding it back the entire discussion was how Korea isn't "Korea" anymore.
Well, almost all of the elite player talent left, with the only exceptions really being Faker, Duke, Gorilla and arguably Easyhoon and Madlife. But alot of what Korea's really been known for is having exceptional P/B which really set the international meta and very controlled mid and late games. I think that's still reflected in the top 4 teams, largely because most of their coaching staffs were left intact, or, in the case of GE, absolute geniuses who had never been given the reigns of a team before. However, the other thing KR was known for was taking random solo queue talent and turning it into world-class players, and we obviously didn't really see that this year, as Najin and Samsung crashed and burned. The only real exception would be Fixer. I think that a huge part of that has to with much of the promising solo queue talent migrating to other regions. You have to imagine the likes of Gamsu or Huni would have likely preformed much better than Cuvee this year. Ex-BFM could have produced some quality players as well with Beast, Core and Huhi. And solo queue talent like Ella and especially Rush leaving really hurts. With all these upcoming talented players departing Samsung was really forced to scrape at the bottom of the barrel and it showed. I think that if they had gotten their hands on some of these guys they could have maybe beaten at least Najin and IM.
Overall, I think what makes Korea Korea is still there, in the strong P/B and controlled closes. Its just that its being executed by much less talented players.
On May 03 2015 19:04 skykh wrote: U guys rank ezhoon top 3 mid in the world now? If he is so good he should at least reach the finals one time with blue or skt t s right?
Why do you think SK Telecom S was able to reach the round of four? Because it sure as wasn't due to MaRin who couldn't play Shyvanna to save his life. The bottom lane who carried during the laning phase only to throw it all away later on a-la Doublelift. And don't even get me started on the brainless dolt they had for a jungler. Eazyhoon was always rated highly by his peers, and while that alone does not always carry into results, we can be sure of this much for sure. They are way better at judging individual talent than you.
Now either accept the fact that you were late to notice the obvious calibre of Eazyhoon, or go gollow the Thorin route and come up with non-sensical hypotheticals you wouldn't dare apply to your own favourite players.
By having Frost and Bigfile in their group, then playing Sword(Hi GET!) in 8s.
They lost 2-3 to the eventual winners, and only because H0R0 was heavily outclassed by his jungling counterpart. SK Telecom S was not a championship material team, but because of the hard carrying force of Eazyhoon, and some strength from the bottom lane, they were able to upset the likes of Samsung Galaxy White multiple times during the Masters and group stages of the OGN despite having one of the weakest jungler out of the top level teams. Considering all the teams that had shit junglers in that season were stomped by teams with superior junglers, getting fourth was no easy feat. By the way, getting fourth was a better result than what SK Telecom T1 K ever achieved that season. What does that say about Faker? Fuck all. Can we seriously stop taking Montecristo's personal opinions, Reddit memes, and whoever circle-jerk that was trending at the time as the gospel truth, and actually do some critical thinking, or at least try to understand what the general consensus was among the professionals and insiders (yes Montecristo is one of them, but there are many more, some of whom are more well connected and more knowledgeable), before trying to knot together random memes from Reddit with pseudo-analysis and logic?
You know who else lost to KTA in game 5s? Everybody. Kakao and Rookie absolutely bodied everybody when unfettered by bans, going 11/9/43(6KDA) and 20/8/38(7.25KDA) in those games. Are you really going to bring up a best of 1 in a tournament that didn't matter against SSW when Pawn was on the team for less than 3 months like it means anything because SSW won worlds half a year later? Give me a break. + Show Spoiler +
By the way, if you do, SSW beat SKTS handily less than 2 months later in the finals of said tournament.
So yeah, I guess, congrats to SKTS for getting 4th in Summer, but when your group consists of trash like Frost(5-8th in NLB) and Bigfile(17-20th, losing to VTG 2+ Show Spoiler +
Literally. Who.
) it's an embarrassment if they didn't make it out. Then in the quarters, they played the 7th worst team of the playoff qualifiers so they can get bounced in semis' blind pick and then get destroyed in 3rd/4th by SSW 3-0, worse than what SKTK was able to muster against them in quarters.
SKTS was at best the 5th best team in that playoffs, but I'd probably place NJWS ahead of them too. I don't need Monte or some magical access to inside sources that I don't have access to to be able to arrive to my view point. I have history as it actually played out.
1) Like I said, the difference between H0R0and KaKAO was immense. That has what to do with Eazyhoon? It's a near miracle Eazyhoon did as well as he did with such a glaring weakness in the line up. Faker suffered due to Bengi being useless (and always taken into account when assessing his Season 4 performance) but hardly anybody mentions how H0R0 was holding back his team.
2) SK Telecom S were capable of defeating the very best teams, but indeed Samsung teams were head and shoulders above everyone else, thank you for stating the obvious.
3) Are you going to bring NLB placings to lessen what SK Telecom S did? Najin Black Sword finished 2nd then, so they MUST have been the 6th best right? Above Najin White Shield who finished below them? Sure these teams were pretty similar in strength and the placings would have varied, but SK Telecom S had the top four finish AND decent to acceptable results versus the very best teams, and this was mainly due to Eazyhoon. This is a fact, and it doesn't matter if you think they weren't a good team, because by proxy you're then limiting yourself to a very select few teams worthy of ANY praise. And I know for certain you don't speak this way about teams that would have flourished with the same line-up competing elsewhere.
EPT
(10): Deft, Pawn, Faker, Marin, Tom, Wolf, Bang, Lustboy, Huni, Reignover
(5): Westdoor, Albis, Ziv, An, GreenTea
(3): koro1, Clearlove, Mouse
(3): Thaldrin, Theokoles, Dumbledoge
(2): Bjergsen, Santorin
(2): Yellowstar, Steelback
(1): Febiven
(1): WildTurtle
(1): Dyrus
(1): Nardeus
(1): Energy
