[NA LCS] Spring 2015 Playoffs - Page 200

On April 14 2015 01:41 wei2coolman wrote:

lmao, the only team in LPL that actually poses a threat to EDG, isn't better than TSM? lol.

On April 14 2015 01:54 AlterKot wrote:
So this very ot discussion is allowed but we can't have pro evo thread huh :>

On April 14 2015 01:39 LimpingGoat wrote:
As far as rating TSM goes, they are easily a top 3 team in the World right now. Potentially the best.

On April 14 2015 01:53 Mensol wrote:
Dyrus can play toe to toe against Gogoing only in parallel universe.

On April 14 2015 01:55 Kavas wrote:

Nah, Riot will just nerf every champ Gogoing plays so NA has a chance at world's.

I'm still salty over the Ryze nerfs.

On April 14 2015 01:51 Azarkon wrote:
Your block of text

On April 14 2015 01:55 MajorityofOne wrote:


Part of me wants TSM to keep succeeding just so your claims get more and more brazen.

Somehow EDG and SKT don't win their regions so TSM ducks them at MSI. TSM wins the tournament, "potentially the best" goes to "easily the best, worlds favorite".

They wreck NA next split as C9 completely falls apart. Nobody challenges them. Meanwhile nobody in Korea looks that great and LPL continues to be a clusterfuck. "Best in the world" becomes "One of the greatest teams ever" as worlds approaches.

Then worlds happens and they get fucking bodied.

I'm such a hater, I know, I know

On April 14 2015 02:01 Lost My Will To Live wrote:

Why do you even bother comparing people across regions and saying shit like "Bjergsen would win against X, but not Y"?

There's no point in speculating when let's be real who knows what's going to happen because they haven't played each other. I mean, we saw PowerofEvil take a fucking shit all over Bjergsen out of nowhere. Anything can happen. Dade shit the bed at worlds a couple years ago when he was the worlds second best mid player.

On April 14 2015 01:51 Azarkon wrote:
What people fail to understand about TSM is that while the team still revolves around mid, Bjergsen no longer has to smash mid for the team to do well. Santorin has brought a new level of stability to the team. He easily out jungled Rush in LCS, and also managed to perform well vs. Spirit at IEM - even though Spirit destroyed GE's jungler.

But TSM's biggest strengths is their early game lane swaps - which make up for their bot's laning weaknesses, mid-game rotations, and mid/late game team fights. In the games vs. CJ at IEM, TSM actually fell behind in both top and bot early on while only evening out in mid, but were able to salvage the situation with excellent rotations and mid-game engagements. Santorin's performance here is critical as he has been one of the biggest playmakers on TSM in team fights, along with Lustboy and Bjerg.

The bottom line is that TSM isn't a one-dimensional team ie Bjergsen-has-to-win-mid and won't lose to one-dimensional teams that rely on single threats eg TiP with Impact, WE with Spirit, and Snake with Flandre. Montecristo was dead wrong about the tank meta being disadvantageous to TSM because for one, Santorin and Dyrus both play tanks well, and for two, a single threat ie a world class hyper-carry top is easily shut down in picks and bans, as was shown against TiP.

The best way to beat TSM is actually to simply out-play them in bot/top, hold even/ahead in mid, and then match them in mid-game rotations and team fights. Very few mid laners are capable of bullying Bjergsen, but in case such players do exist, it has to be Pawn and Faker, whose teams also have great bot lanes, the former especially. Thus EDG and SKT matches up well vs. TSM because while Bjerg has his hands full with Pawn/Faker, TSM's bot lane gets rekt by Deft/Bang. TSM has to lane swap vs. such opponents and even then it's difficult to see Turtle out-performing Bang and especially Deft in team fights.

LGD has a similar match up with We1less vs. Bjerg, Imp vs. Turtle, but their rotations leave a lot to be desired, which exposes a weakness that TSM is able to exploit. Nonetheless, were LGD to clean up their mid game rotations they'd have a solid advantage vs. TSM because their top, Acorn/Flame, is actually above TSM's, so in theory all three lanes are ahead/even.

For top-heavy teams, being able to outplay TSM in mid/bot is critical for success, because otherwise all top advantages are nullified by laneswaps and Dyrus being a solid 1v2 player. For Snake, this is not going to happen because Baka < Bjergsen, so they won't do well vs. TSM. For iG, Zz1tai's ability to carry from the top is still a ?, but given their mediocre bot lane with Kid, they have to run it that way, as that's their main advantage vs. TSM unless Rookie flat out destroys Bjerg mid which I don't think is going to occur.

VG, despite doing pretty well in LPL, is stylistically disadvantaged vs TSM. For VG, their mid-laner flat out gets abused by Bjerg and relying on Dandy to carry the team puts them in the same situation as WE even though they have tighter rotations and team fights. TSM knows how to handle teams that require their junglers to get them ahead.

As to OMG, in theory their bot lane is their main advantage, and their top and mid ought to hold even vs. Bjerg and Dyrus, at the minimum, so they have a decent match up. However, their jungler needs to desperately learn how to play solid as otherwise TSM gets a free advantage with Santorin. I'd say OMG is even vs. TSM at the moment.

As to GET, it was and remains my belief that TSM has a stylistic advantage vs. GET because GET revolves around Smeb and mid-game rotations & team fights. TSM's greatest strengths are in the latter two, while they've shown repeatedly that they know how to shut down top carries. Unless GET is able to present a threat in mid and bot that TSM is not capable of responding to except by banning it, Smeb won't ever get to play his top carries. GET, therefore, is at best even vs. TSM.

In any case, all theories are up in the air till MSI and even Worlds because MSI only invites the best of each league. LoL is hampered by such poor international setup.

On April 14 2015 01:49 LimpingGoat wrote:


EDG might not even be better than TSM, why assume Snake is.

On April 14 2015 02:17 Ansibled wrote:

Streaming on Hitbox is the best way to get views.

On April 14 2015 01:37 LimpingGoat wrote:


There's no such thing as a fair eye test. If you just watch two teams you're going to tend to see flaws in the team you already believe or want to believe is worse and overestimate strengths in the team that you already believe or want to believe is better.

That's why I always think it's so stupid when I hear someone like Thoorin or Montecristo say, "It doesn't matter if the teams don't play against eachother we can just watch the games with our eyes and see which is better". No! You cannot, you guys don't even play the fucking game, you're the last people who could watch the games and fairly evaluate how strong each team is.