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Unfounded matchfixing accusations are not welcome. Refrain from making off-the-wall accusations without concrete evidence. |
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That was over one year ago though. Fnatic was clearly the best team and Peke was their playmaker roaming, splitpushing a lot.
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Meteos is the best NA jungler. He is the best team fighting jungler in the West, but shook and jankos are likely better overall right now.
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On September 25 2014 00:21 Sleight wrote:
Meteos is the best NA jungler. He is the best team fighting jungler in the West, but shook and jankos are likely better overall right now.
Sven is also better, Helios maybe.
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Meteos has (like most of C9) fallen off this last split.
He's not bad, but he's no where as dominant as he used to be.
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Helios is not better. Zero chance. He makes terrible decisions in team fights, he is just great early game. Sven is about even with metros.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On September 25 2014 00:47 Sleight wrote:
Helios is not better. Zero chance. He makes terrible decisions in team fights, he is just great early game. Sven is about even with metros.
Helios will be considerably better second after EG find legit toplaner.
Dunno, outside of Jankos, in general, there are basically no junglers in Western premier teams.
Like, Shook is a Froggen bitch, Svenskeren has hilarious decisionmaking which kills him in 90% of games, Meteos can't do shit when his laners blow, dexter was nukeduck/Zorozero bitch and so on.
Only Jankos and Helios are strong independent junglers who try to make plays and really impact the game.
Kez is good though, but lacks mechanics.
On September 25 2014 01:21 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2014 01:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On September 25 2014 00:47 Sleight wrote:
Helios is not better. Zero chance. He makes terrible decisions in team fights, he is just great early game. Sven is about even with metros. Helios will be considerably better second after EG find legit toplaner. Dunno, outside of Jankos, in general, there are basically no junglers in Western premier teams. Like, Shook is a Froggen bitch, Svenskeren has hilarious decisionmaking which kills him in 90% of games, Meteos can't do shit when his laners blow, dexter was nukeduck/Zorozero bitch and so on. Only Jankos and Helios are strong independent junglers who try to make plays and really impact the game. Kez is good though, but lacks mechanics. Rip Diamond 
#restinpepperonis
Inc Diamondprox in NA, considering that no wife now.
#freedom
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On September 25 2014 01:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2014 00:47 Sleight wrote:
Helios is not better. Zero chance. He makes terrible decisions in team fights, he is just great early game. Sven is about even with metros. Helios will be considerably better second after EG find legit toplaner. Dunno, outside of Jankos, in general, there are basically no junglers in Western premier teams. Like, Shook is a Froggen bitch, Svenskeren has hilarious decisionmaking which kills him in 90% of games, Meteos can't do shit when his laners blow, dexter was nukeduck/Zorozero bitch and so on. Only Jankos and Helios are strong independent junglers who try to make plays and really impact the game. Kez is good though, but lacks mechanics.
Rip Diamond
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Now I kind of wish Riot would copy TI format and have one 16 man group, double round robin - top 8 make it to playoffs.
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On September 25 2014 01:44 miicah wrote:
Now I kind of wish Riot would copy TI format and have one 16 man group, double round robin - top 8 make it to playoffs.
Each team plays 30 games? That's 240 games in the group stage alone. That's as many as you have in an entire LCS split. That would be some grueling endurance. Even in The Invitational, the teams only played 15 games in the group stage. Even assuming you split this over 2 weekends, each team would basically play 4 games a day. If you split it over 2 weeks, they'd still play 2 games a day, every day, for those two weeks.
... then the playoff bracket would start.
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On September 25 2014 01:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2014 00:47 Sleight wrote:
Helios is not better. Zero chance. He makes terrible decisions in team fights, he is just great early game. Sven is about even with metros. Helios will be considerably better second after EG find legit toplaner. Dunno, outside of Jankos, in general, there are basically no junglers in Western premier teams. Like, Shook is a Froggen bitch, Svenskeren has hilarious decisionmaking which kills him in 90% of games, Meteos can't do shit when his laners blow, dexter was nukeduck/Zorozero bitch and so on. Only Jankos and Helios are strong independent junglers who try to make plays and really impact the game. Kez is good though, but lacks mechanics. Show nested quote +On September 25 2014 01:21 Doctorbeat wrote:On September 25 2014 01:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On September 25 2014 00:47 Sleight wrote:
Helios is not better. Zero chance. He makes terrible decisions in team fights, he is just great early game. Sven is about even with metros. Helios will be considerably better second after EG find legit toplaner. Dunno, outside of Jankos, in general, there are basically no junglers in Western premier teams. Like, Shook is a Froggen bitch, Svenskeren has hilarious decisionmaking which kills him in 90% of games, Meteos can't do shit when his laners blow, dexter was nukeduck/Zorozero bitch and so on. Only Jankos and Helios are strong independent junglers who try to make plays and really impact the game. Kez is good though, but lacks mechanics. Rip Diamond #restinpepperonis Inc Diamondprox in NA, considering that no wife now. #freedom
Yeah where are all the strong independent junglers who don't need no laners at?
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I'll never understand why people are so confidently stating how good players are, acting all "rofl no he's not good" and "man you must be a fanboy of this player if you think he's good", when we are all just random nobodies doing power rankings based on eye test and limited knowledge of the game :p Oh well, guess I'll do the same.
First, I think Bjerg was as good in S3 as he is now. He was always talented, but while Nuke got to play with Zoro/Dexter, he was playing with Maluno and Mimer - I wonder why he didn't have same results :D And come on, snowballing was so braindead in S3, all nuke needed to do was get a good gank from Dexter, roam anywhere and 5-10 minutes later he could 1v1 anyone on the map, saying he was some god midlaner is like saying Chaox was S2 MVP. Right after Worlds nuke got crushed by Overpow and became and average challenger midlaner, what a god : )
Secondly, I think Rekkles is a better player than Tabzz. He was Fnatic's star in wins and the only saving grace in losses. I think it mostly showed in summer final, where Rekkles would do slightly better than Tabzz, but it didn't matter because the rest of the team was getting stomped. It's kinda funny how Froggen is praised because he doesn't lose lanes and positions well in teamfights, but Rekkles is criticized because these are things he's best at and he's not as aggressive as Tabzz :p
Finally, Bjerg vs Froggen. Now that's why I really wanted TSM vs ALL in groups, to see how Bjerg would do now against Froggen, in a serious match where both have decent teams. Bjerg was the best in NA and his competition was XWX, Hai and Voyboy. Froggen was best in EU, and his competition was xPeke, Jesiz and Overpow. If someone draws conclusion on who is better based on that, then I guess I need to level up my powerranking skill, because I can't even imagine doing it :p
At least we all agree that the world outside TL is wrong and xPeke is actually bad 
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On September 25 2014 02:36 AlterKot wrote:I'll never understand why people are so confidently stating how good players are, acting all "rofl no he's not good" and "man you must be a fanboy of this player if you think he's good", when we are all just random nobodies doing power rankings based on eye test and limited knowledge of the game :p Oh well, guess I'll do the same. First, I think Bjerg was as good in S3 as he is now. He was always talented, but while Nuke got to play with Zoro/Dexter, he was playing with Maluno and Mimer - I wonder why he didn't have same results :D And come on, snowballing was so braindead in S3, all nuke needed to do was get a good gank from Dexter, roam anywhere and 5-10 minutes later he could 1v1 anyone on the map, saying he was some god midlaner is like saying Chaox was S2 MVP. Right after Worlds nuke got crushed by Overpow and became and average challenger midlaner, what a god : ) Secondly, I think Rekkles is a better player than Tabzz. He was Fnatic's star in wins and the only saving grace in losses. I think it mostly showed in summer final, where Rekkles would do slightly better than Tabzz, but it didn't matter because the rest of the team was getting stomped. It's kinda funny how Froggen is praised because he doesn't lose lanes and positions well in teamfights, but Rekkles is criticized because these are things he's best at and he's not as aggressive as Tabzz :p Finally, Bjerg vs Froggen. Now that's why I really wanted TSM vs ALL in groups, to see how Bjerg would do now against Froggen, in a serious match where both have decent teams. Bjerg was the best in NA and his competition was XWX, Hai and Voyboy. Froggen was best in EU, and his competition was xPeke, Jesiz and Overpow. If someone draws conclusion on who is better based on that, then I guess I need to level up my powerranking skill, because I can't even imagine doing it :p At least we all agree that the world outside TL is wrong and xPeke is actually bad
I think an interesting question is: if you had one spot left on your team, and you HAD to pick one of the two options, would you rather have Link or Jesiz? Honestly, we probably couldn't even get people to agree on the correct ordering of midlaners in an individual region. We have no prayer of accurately predicting the true strength of midlaners of different regions. Plus, with how important the team dynamic is in LoL, on what grounds do you really evaluate someone? People offer more than their mechanical ability, otherwise winning Worlds would truly be as simple as finding the 5 most skilled players in the world.
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On September 25 2014 02:36 AlterKot wrote:Secondly, I think Rekkles is a better player than Tabzz. He was Fnatic's star in wins and the only saving grace in losses. I think it mostly showed in summer final, where Rekkles would do slightly better than Tabzz, but it didn't matter because the rest of the team was getting stomped. It's kinda funny how Froggen is praised because he doesn't lose lanes and positions well in teamfights, but Rekkles is criticized because these are things he's best at and he's not as aggressive as Tabzz :p At least we all agree that the world outside TL is wrong and xPeke is actually bad
I think Rekkles is extremely overrated here; he isn't so much as a "saving grace" in losses as he is the guy that will never get involved in a fight because he's busy soaking up farm splitpushing/hiding in the back without even trying to turn fights around because of "muh kda" (which also makes him a good fantasy pick even when fnatic is losing). For that matter, I don't think I've ever seen him turn a losing game around and carry it, which in my opinion is one of the biggest things that makes someone actually great. On the other hand, he's definitely the type of player you want when your team is ahead because he will cement that lead. Sadly for fnatic, the rest of the team can't be relied upon to generate that lead for him; I think he would be a much better fit for a team that can more reliably get ahead early but needs some stabilization later on.
I'm glad everyone can agree on xPeke being terrible though.
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Regarding my evaluation of Rekkles - I think Tabzz is overrated and Fnatic isn't a very good team. So I don't mean that Rekkles is some great player because he's even better than Tabzz, just that I think he's best in EU (but not as good as top CN and mid-KR players) and that the way Fnatic works, I don't think there's much room for him to carry.
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Could be bias (and myself only watching a handful of EU games), but I do not see how any western jungle is as good as Meteos is.
I feel like his team fighting and decision making is far and above every other jungler in NA/EU. I do think Sven if he doesn't do suicidal plays would probably be up there.
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Well it's hard to say that Meteos is the best jungler when his early game is so atrocious. When you look at junglers like Sven/Jankos who have both good early game and decent teamfighting it makes it hard to rate Meteos as the best. Maybe if he was better early or his team was as a whole that claim would be more solid.
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No bias. Just honest analysis. Shook and jankos are playing better right now, but neither are better.
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On September 25 2014 02:04 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2014 01:44 miicah wrote:
Now I kind of wish Riot would copy TI format and have one 16 man group, double round robin - top 8 make it to playoffs. Each team plays 30 games? That's 240 games in the group stage alone. That's as many as you have in an entire LCS split. That would be some grueling endurance. Even in The Invitational, the teams only played 15 games in the group stage. Even assuming you split this over 2 weekends, each team would basically play 4 games a day. If you split it over 2 weeks, they'd still play 2 games a day, every day, for those two weeks. ... then the playoff bracket would start.
Each team plays 15 my bad.
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On September 25 2014 03:50 miicah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2014 02:04 Takkara wrote:On September 25 2014 01:44 miicah wrote:
Now I kind of wish Riot would copy TI format and have one 16 man group, double round robin - top 8 make it to playoffs. Each team plays 30 games? That's 240 games in the group stage alone. That's as many as you have in an entire LCS split. That would be some grueling endurance. Even in The Invitational, the teams only played 15 games in the group stage. Even assuming you split this over 2 weekends, each team would basically play 4 games a day. If you split it over 2 weeks, they'd still play 2 games a day, every day, for those two weeks. ... then the playoff bracket would start. Each team plays 15 my bad.
Even then you end up with an imbalance where every team plays an extra game on either blue side or red side. Since blue side is at least 55-45 favored (see earlier post on this page) and as high as 72-28 favored, then it's a major advantage to have 8 blue side games instead of 7. Additionally, if you only have a single round-robin, if you get to play the hardest teams while on Blue Side, then you will have an inflated record over another team that played the hardest teams on Red Side.
I don't say this to unduly call you out. I say this to show that it's non-trivial to come up with a fair and feasible solution to how to organize Worlds.
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EPT
