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Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
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Unfounded matchfixing accusations are not welcome. Refrain from making off-the-wall accusations without concrete evidence.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 24 2014 18:58 GMT
#3921
On September 25 2014 03:55 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2014 03:50 miicah wrote:
On September 25 2014 02:04 Takkara wrote:
On September 25 2014 01:44 miicah wrote:
Now I kind of wish Riot would copy TI format and have one 16 man group, double round robin - top 8 make it to playoffs.


Each team plays 30 games? That's 240 games in the group stage alone. That's as many as you have in an entire LCS split. That would be some grueling endurance. Even in The Invitational, the teams only played 15 games in the group stage. Even assuming you split this over 2 weekends, each team would basically play 4 games a day. If you split it over 2 weeks, they'd still play 2 games a day, every day, for those two weeks.

... then the playoff bracket would start.


Each team plays 15 my bad.


Even then you end up with an imbalance where every team plays an extra game on either blue side or red side. Since blue side is at least 55-45 favored (see earlier post on this page) and as high as 72-28 favored, then it's a major advantage to have 8 blue side games instead of 7. Additionally, if you only have a single round-robin, if you get to play the hardest teams while on Blue Side, then you will have an inflated record over another team that played the hardest teams on Red Side.

I don't say this to unduly call you out. I say this to show that it's non-trivial to come up with a fair and feasible solution to how to organize Worlds.


Don't really get why you saying how "unfeasible" a format it is when he just said to copy the TI4 format so clearly it's not unfeasible.
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
September 24 2014 19:02 GMT
#3922
On September 25 2014 03:58 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2014 03:55 Takkara wrote:
On September 25 2014 03:50 miicah wrote:
On September 25 2014 02:04 Takkara wrote:
On September 25 2014 01:44 miicah wrote:
Now I kind of wish Riot would copy TI format and have one 16 man group, double round robin - top 8 make it to playoffs.


Each team plays 30 games? That's 240 games in the group stage alone. That's as many as you have in an entire LCS split. That would be some grueling endurance. Even in The Invitational, the teams only played 15 games in the group stage. Even assuming you split this over 2 weekends, each team would basically play 4 games a day. If you split it over 2 weeks, they'd still play 2 games a day, every day, for those two weeks.

... then the playoff bracket would start.


Each team plays 15 my bad.


Even then you end up with an imbalance where every team plays an extra game on either blue side or red side. Since blue side is at least 55-45 favored (see earlier post on this page) and as high as 72-28 favored, then it's a major advantage to have 8 blue side games instead of 7. Additionally, if you only have a single round-robin, if you get to play the hardest teams while on Blue Side, then you will have an inflated record over another team that played the hardest teams on Red Side.

I don't say this to unduly call you out. I say this to show that it's non-trivial to come up with a fair and feasible solution to how to organize Worlds.


Don't really get why you saying how "unfeasible" a format it is when he just said to copy the TI4 format so clearly it's not unfeasible.


The "fair" was about using the exact TI format, because of the imbalance of Red and Blue sides. The "feasible" was about his first suggestion to do a double round-robin (240 games).
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-24 19:08:15
September 24 2014 19:04 GMT
#3923
On September 24 2014 22:44 Kenpark wrote:
Well pro's dont agree with you.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-froggen/1100-514/
"They are almost the same, but Bjergsen can also play AP mids. Nukeduck can only play assassins.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-moopz/1100-1220/
They are really close, but I think Bjergsen is a little better.

There was also another reflection, I just dont remember from whom, who stated that Nuke was the better Fizz, Bjergsen better on Ahri and Zed.

Nukeduck being way better than Bjergsen back in season 3 is just total bullshit.

e/
http://www.aceresport.com/en/nukeduck_grilled.htm

I think Peke is rly good and Bjergsen. I think they are the best mids. Bjergsen pretty much wins his lane against any player.




Yeah because these guys are really 100% telling the truth and making sure not to burn bridges.

#xPekeisrlygood.

Lol wtf does "really good" even mean? It's just some nonsense people can say about pros because they're obviously good compared to the normal SQ players.

In regards to Bjergsen being "best mid", I'm really uncertain about that since even relative to XWX, XWX can give him a run for his money while XWX is NOT comparable to Froggen. I do think Bjergsen is actually very strong comparative in the Western mids but I think Froggen definitely outclasses the pool there.
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
September 24 2014 19:30 GMT
#3924
On September 25 2014 04:04 KissBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2014 22:44 Kenpark wrote:
Well pro's dont agree with you.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-froggen/1100-514/
"They are almost the same, but Bjergsen can also play AP mids. Nukeduck can only play assassins.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-moopz/1100-1220/
They are really close, but I think Bjergsen is a little better.

There was also another reflection, I just dont remember from whom, who stated that Nuke was the better Fizz, Bjergsen better on Ahri and Zed.

Nukeduck being way better than Bjergsen back in season 3 is just total bullshit.

e/
http://www.aceresport.com/en/nukeduck_grilled.htm

I think Peke is rly good and Bjergsen. I think they are the best mids. Bjergsen pretty much wins his lane against any player.




Yeah because these guys are really 100% telling the truth and making sure not to burn bridges.

#xPekeisrlygood.

Lol wtf does "really good" even mean? It's just some nonsense people can say about pros because they're obviously good compared to the normal SQ players.

In regards to Bjergsen being "best mid", I'm really uncertain about that since even relative to XWX, XWX can give him a run for his money while XWX is NOT comparable to Froggen. I do think Bjergsen is actually very strong comparative in the Western mids but I think Froggen definitely outclasses the pool there.


Froggen outclasses any Western mid but isn't very close to the level of Faker/Dade/Ggoong imo.
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
September 24 2014 19:40 GMT
#3925
Ggoong is still on the fence in terms of where he lays. I actually put Cool above Ggoong tbh.
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
September 24 2014 19:51 GMT
#3926
On September 25 2014 04:40 KissBlade wrote:
Ggoong is still on the fence in terms of where he lays. I actually put Cool above Ggoong tbh.


I'm a believer.
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-24 20:26:30
September 24 2014 19:57 GMT
#3927
On September 25 2014 04:30 Doctorbeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2014 04:04 KissBlade wrote:
On September 24 2014 22:44 Kenpark wrote:
Well pro's dont agree with you.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-froggen/1100-514/
"They are almost the same, but Bjergsen can also play AP mids. Nukeduck can only play assassins.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-moopz/1100-1220/
They are really close, but I think Bjergsen is a little better.

There was also another reflection, I just dont remember from whom, who stated that Nuke was the better Fizz, Bjergsen better on Ahri and Zed.

Nukeduck being way better than Bjergsen back in season 3 is just total bullshit.

e/
http://www.aceresport.com/en/nukeduck_grilled.htm

I think Peke is rly good and Bjergsen. I think they are the best mids. Bjergsen pretty much wins his lane against any player.




Yeah because these guys are really 100% telling the truth and making sure not to burn bridges.

#xPekeisrlygood.

Lol wtf does "really good" even mean? It's just some nonsense people can say about pros because they're obviously good compared to the normal SQ players.

In regards to Bjergsen being "best mid", I'm really uncertain about that since even relative to XWX, XWX can give him a run for his money while XWX is NOT comparable to Froggen. I do think Bjergsen is actually very strong comparative in the Western mids but I think Froggen definitely outclasses the pool there.


Froggen outclasses any Western mid but isn't very close to the level of Faker/Dade/Ggoong imo.


Ggoong have relatively small champion pool, Froggen might have a shot there, especially considering that watch rarely builds a tent mid and Shook usually does. Even though, if Ggoong/Watch/Zefa-Regionals 2014 appear, it's pretty much lights out for anyone until the finals.

Faker is untouchable even for dade, i seriously hope that he doesn't lose all will to live if bengi isn't going to stop slumping next OGN.
Cool on the other hand, he's just too inconsistent, Cool in good shape can give Faker and dade run for their money, Cool in bad mood when San is sad is going to feed even to Peke.

Back to 2012 noone expected Froggen to perform on Rapidstar level either, everyone knows the end.

On September 25 2014 05:14 Numy wrote:
Froggen went full retard and blind picked a champ he doesn't play to lose them the finals? Don't know what I'm more salty about, WE vs CLG.eu or that OGN finals with CLG.eu


Arguably they lost finals in G3 when they threw, not in Game 5.
Biggest salt is CLG.EU losing to Frost in semifinals of Worlds still.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 24 2014 20:14 GMT
#3928
Froggen went full retard and blind picked a champ he doesn't play to lose them the finals? Don't know what I'm more salty about, WE vs CLG.eu or that OGN finals with CLG.eu
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
September 24 2014 20:14 GMT
#3929
On September 25 2014 04:30 Doctorbeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2014 04:04 KissBlade wrote:
On September 24 2014 22:44 Kenpark wrote:
Well pro's dont agree with you.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-froggen/1100-514/
"They are almost the same, but Bjergsen can also play AP mids. Nukeduck can only play assassins.

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/reflections-with-moopz/1100-1220/
They are really close, but I think Bjergsen is a little better.

There was also another reflection, I just dont remember from whom, who stated that Nuke was the better Fizz, Bjergsen better on Ahri and Zed.

Nukeduck being way better than Bjergsen back in season 3 is just total bullshit.

e/
http://www.aceresport.com/en/nukeduck_grilled.htm

I think Peke is rly good and Bjergsen. I think they are the best mids. Bjergsen pretty much wins his lane against any player.




Yeah because these guys are really 100% telling the truth and making sure not to burn bridges.

#xPekeisrlygood.

Lol wtf does "really good" even mean? It's just some nonsense people can say about pros because they're obviously good compared to the normal SQ players.

In regards to Bjergsen being "best mid", I'm really uncertain about that since even relative to XWX, XWX can give him a run for his money while XWX is NOT comparable to Froggen. I do think Bjergsen is actually very strong comparative in the Western mids but I think Froggen definitely outclasses the pool there.


Froggen outclasses any Western mid but isn't very close to the level of Faker/Dade/Ggoong imo.


IMO at worlds, Froggen is #2 or #3 mid there, depending on how you think he stacks up against PawN or Cool.

Definitely not on the level of Dade or Faker, but IMO his skill level is around a average to above-average Korean mid easily.
SUNSFANNED
Gator
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States3432 Posts
September 24 2014 20:31 GMT
#3930
montecristo only owns big belt buckles?? now he has no belt
TSM
loSleb
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1389 Posts
September 24 2014 20:31 GMT
#3931
Biggest salt is EU playoffs season 3, because I was there live and I knew it was lost when he picked Zyra.
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-24 20:38:22
September 24 2014 20:38 GMT
#3932
Was SS Blue's coach Choi the coach of MvP's SC2 team?? I think I remember him from the GSTL like 3-4 years ago.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
September 24 2014 20:39 GMT
#3933
Yes I believe choi went with the LoL teams to samsung when they purchased the teams
Glorious SEA doto
Don_Julio
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
2220 Posts
September 24 2014 20:43 GMT
#3934
On September 25 2014 04:40 KissBlade wrote:
Ggoong is still on the fence in terms of where he lays. I actually put Cool above Ggoong tbh.

GGoong is the best and he will prove it. He will be MVP if such a thing exists at Worlds. I believe.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-24 20:49:57
September 24 2014 20:44 GMT
#3935
Ggoong's performance depends on how good he is for the meta, he has this small group of god tier champs and mediocre elsewhere (His yasuo >_<). This meta seems pretty decent from him looking at regionals even if he wasn't spectacular as regionals was surprisingly more bot/jungle.
However worlds patch having pre-nerf ali top is such a massive boost for najin

MONTE DIDN'T PLACE A KOREAN AT #1. HIT THE DECK
Glorious SEA doto
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
September 24 2014 20:50 GMT
#3936
Woah guys, Monte ranked Froggen over GGoong.
SUNSFANNED
ManBaker
Profile Joined September 2013
1943 Posts
September 24 2014 20:55 GMT
#3937
On September 25 2014 05:50 BrownBear wrote:
Woah guys, Monte ranked Froggen over GGoong.


Yeah and?

BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
September 24 2014 20:56 GMT
#3938
On September 25 2014 05:55 ManBaker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2014 05:50 BrownBear wrote:
Woah guys, Monte ranked Froggen over GGoong.


Yeah and?



Mr. Korean Hype Train himself saying that Froggen is better than a Korean mid laner not that surprising to you?
SUNSFANNED
skykh
Profile Joined September 2012
3006 Posts
September 24 2014 20:56 GMT
#3939
There is someone from tl said Alliance is overhyped, All guys prediction c9 to win second place.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 24 2014 20:58 GMT
#3940
On September 25 2014 05:56 skykh wrote:
There is someone from tl said Alliance is overhyped, All guys prediction c9 to win second place.


Guess full NA bench hypes up C9. Double even said all lanes are even. How is Hai vs Froggen even lol.
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