EPT[NA LCS] Summer 2014 Week 2 - Page 40
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Swords
6038 Posts
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Sleight
2471 Posts
On June 02 2014 01:48 Slusher wrote: all the Dig non-belivers acting like LCS is NR20 or something. It isn't about denial so much as skepticism. KiwiPie were the solidly 4th best botlane and Crumbz was a good, but not great jungler. Shiphtur and Zion were at least 2nd/3rd in their roles. It is reasonable to be skeptical when they come in playing out of their minds against C9 then promptly throw against CRS. C9 is recovering, CLG and TSM are adjusting, only LMQ has no excuse (other than they have never played against good teams). In 4-5 weeks, it is reasonable to expect Dig to pick up losses against the historically stronger teams while C9 stops hemorrhaging losses to scrubs. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 02 2014 01:48 Slusher wrote: all the Dig non-belivers acting like LCS is NR20 or something. Pretty much this. Crumbz #2 jungler for a long time imo. zion is even better in this current meta when top laners can play carrys more. Imo kiwipie suffered from s3 dl syndrome last split. No top lane pressure means everyone goes to kiwipies lane and shits on them. Nothing you can do when it's 2v4 every game. So they looked extremely lackluster for the longest time. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
shiptur zion and qtpie are all capable of carrying. TSM on the other hand is struggling pretty hard when they are adapting to a new jungler and are so reliant on a single player. if they cant get the chemistry to protect/advance bjerg then they will continue to struggle | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
1)Vasili is a known greedy player, with the new coaching staff it's very possible when reviewing the film they saw that he always saves his ward for lane, and said hey guys, were going to invade bot jungle because Vasili won't ward 2)In season 4 a fb before minions spawn is worth so little that unless you play it right the advantage isn't that big of a deal, Dig managed to convert it into Akerman having one of his worst games of the split, they followed up on it correctly (yay improved shot calling) | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On June 02 2014 03:48 Slusher wrote: I don't even know if Dig is top 3 material (I hope they are) all I'm trying to say is haters keep trying to take away the win vs. LMQ because of the level 1 invade when: 1)Vasili is a known greedy player, with the new coaching staff it's very possible when reviewing the film they saw that he always saves his ward for lane, and said hey guys, were going to invade bot jungle because Vasili won't ward 2)In season 4 a fb before minions spawn is worth so little that unless you play it right the advantage isn't that big of a deal, Dig managed to convert it into Akerman having one of his worst games of the split, they followed up on it correctly (yay improved shot calling) Crumbzz said that when they invaded bot side jungle that it was on the fly planning in the game. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 02 2014 03:42 VayneAuthority wrote: well that is the mark of a strong team when there is really no lane to "camp" shiptur zion and qtpie are all capable of carrying. TSM on the other hand is struggling pretty hard when they are adapting to a new jungler and are so reliant on a single player. if they cant get the chemistry to protect/advance bjerg then they will continue to struggle When Bjergsen is going to sidelane with non-Kassadin mid, you pretty much know that TSM are in bad spot this game. It's always hard to sub jungler and support because those are key roles basically, they're playmakers. Because of it TSM is going to struggle at least 2-4 weeks more i assume. But as Reginald said, regular season isn't important anyway, playoffs is that what matter. Classic example of what can happen with team if you sub one of this position is NA Spring 2013. Remember, when Dignitas were smashing everyone and then Crumbzz wasn't able to play for a week? They lost 2 games in Week 9 with DJ Lambo, then Crumbzz returned and they never were like same Dignitas, following it with 1-4 Week 10 and then glorious 1-2 to GGU in playoffs. Someone, i don't remember who, was even saying that if you play with different jungler for a week, you need at least 2-3 weeks to restore what was before, if not more than a month. And then Curse threw Elementz for Rhux and lost everything in playoffs. BTW, ELEMENTZ IS PLAYING TONIGHT LOL. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On June 02 2014 03:48 Slusher wrote: I don't even know if Dig is top 3 material (I hope they are) all I'm trying to say is haters keep trying to take away the win vs. LMQ because of the level 1 invade when: 1)Vasili is a known greedy player, with the new coaching staff it's very possible when reviewing the film they saw that he always saves his ward for lane, and said hey guys, were going to invade bot jungle because Vasili won't ward 2)In season 4 a fb before minions spawn is worth so little that unless you play it right the advantage isn't that big of a deal, Dig managed to convert it into Akerman having one of his worst games of the split, they followed up on it correctly (yay improved shot calling) Early fb on jungler at his buff definitely matters a lot more than a simple fb on lane or before creeps spawn.Dig still snowballed really well but the advantage they got was certainly not a small deal. | ||
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orzeu
Poland5205 Posts
On June 02 2014 03:49 wei2coolman wrote: Dig only western team I've seen use Irelia effectively so far. Isn't Wickd like 6-2 with her? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
None of those wins were because of his irelia, it was more of a non-factor. Alliance did not do a good job snowballing with midgame power spike that Irelia has. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
It was last spring, Wickd played only once Irelia this split iirc and lost to SHC because [A] were clueless as fuck in this game and Shook with Froggen were getting caught everywhere. But Alliance are pretty much only team in Europe with logic behind Irelia pick because Wickd knows this girl from inside. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On June 02 2014 03:55 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: When Bjergsen is going to sidelane with non-Kassadin mid, you pretty much know that TSM are in bad spot this game. It's always hard to sub jungler and support because those are key roles basically, they're playmakers. Because of it TSM is going to struggle at least 2-4 weeks more i assume. But as Reginald said, regular season isn't important anyway, playoffs is that what matter. Classic example of what can happen with team if you sub one of this position is NA Spring 2013. Remember, when Dignitas were smashing everyone and then Crumbzz wasn't able to play for a week? They lost 2 games in Week 9 with DJ Lambo, then Crumbzz returned and they never were like same Dignitas, following it with 1-4 Week 10 and then glorious 1-2 to GGU in playoffs. Someone, i don't remember who, was even saying that if you play with different jungler for a week, you need at least 2-3 weeks to restore what was before, if not more than a month. And then Curse threw Elementz for Rhux and lost everything in playoffs. BTW, ELEMENTZ IS PLAYING TONIGHT LOL. Also worth noting that Crumbzz's return coincided with Elise/Singed being nerfed (Kiwi's binkies in toplane), and I think Diana was also nerfed around the same time. The result was Dig had to rebuild synergy with significantly weakened solo-laners and it was a disaster. I don't think a jungler switch is usually that extreme, unless it's for a long time (see Shacker being replaced by Snoopeh after a week). | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 02 2014 04:00 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: It was last spring, Wickd played only once Irelia this split iirc and lost to SHC because [A] were clueless as fuck in this game and Shook with Froggen were getting caught everywhere. But Alliance are pretty much only team in Europe with logic behind Irelia pick because Wickd knows this girl from inside. Wickd's Irelia is good, but it's a pick that your team has to play around with. Alliance doesn't do that great of a job with Irelia, as a team. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 02 2014 04:01 Swords wrote: Also worth noting that Crumbzz's return coincided with Elise/Singed being nerfed (Kiwi's binkies in toplane), and I think Diana was also nerfed around the same time. The result was Dig had to rebuild synergy with significantly weakened solo-laners and it was a disaster. I don't think a jungler switch is usually that extreme, unless it's for a long time (see Shacker being replaced by Snoopeh after a week). EG were so atrocious before they got Shacker and nRated that even gold 5 junglers could look good on that EG with 1,5 guys in team. On June 02 2014 04:02 wei2coolman wrote: Wickd's Irelia is good, but it's a pick that your team has to play around with. Alliance doesn't do that great of a job with Irelia, as a team. Zion is using pretty much every champion but Jax in same style :D So Dignitas doesn't really need to adapt to his picks. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Swords
6038 Posts
On June 02 2014 04:03 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: EG were so atrocious before they got Shacker and nRated that even gold 5 junglers could look good on that EG with 1,5 guys in team. Zion is using pretty much every champion but Jax in same style :D So Dignitas doesn't really need to adapt to his picks. That's fair, I just think the main jungler taking one week off doesn't usually result in a total team-wide collapse, Dig's fall that split was a combination of events, just not losing Crumbzz for a week (even though that was certainly a part of it). | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 02 2014 04:03 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Zion is using pretty much every champion but Jax in same style :D So Dignitas doesn't really need to adapt to his picks. I don't know how you can say this after watching t hat game. Dig pretty much used Irelia's midgame powerspike perfectly. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
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