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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 26 2014 07:13 Sakray wrote:
Bottom 3 of Summer Split already decided.
I laughed at the "WE DEFINITELY CAN DO TOP 2 IN SUMMER SPLIT". Can't wait for the slap in their face.
Too early to say to be honest.
Current meta is still ok for team like Wolves, for example, last Summer they would have been dead last, even lower than MYM were.
If they punch their sololaners and force them to do casual stuff at least, then they can go for playoffs, if not - Wolves are dead last team for last split for me.
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What I am most interested in is if there will be any roster changes for the next split. I would actually be surprised if there are none. There are quite a few talented players available now in EU. For example Nukeduck and Freeze are surely not ready to retire, they will look for a team.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 26 2014 11:07 Redox wrote:
What I am most interested in is if there will be any roster changes for the next split. I would actually be surprised if there are none. There are quite a few talented players available now in EU. For example Nukeduck and Freeze are surely not ready to retire, they will look for a team.
Let's just think.
Fnatic are ok with their roster.
SK are ok.
Roccat are ok, Alliance are ok, Gambit are ok.
So we're left with 3 teams who just fought their way back into LCS.
Copenhagen Wolves to fight for top spots if meta changes have to change at least ONE sololaner and better two. Who are free agents? Right, Zorozero and nukeduck + Odoamne/Febiven, if ofc CLG doesn't get someone from them.
Millenium to fight for top spots...i really dunno lol. On paper they have very smart roster, which has raw mechanics, talent, balls and smart calls. Guess, they're ok as well, if Kerp doesn't derp with assassins and KottenX doesn't overdive.
Supa Hot Crew XD seems to play way better than they played before, so i don't think they will change roster at least now as well.
It's hard for Freeze to find LCS team right now. Last split, well, Freeze came instead of Tess, who was underperforming for 2 splits and i hadn't heard about him since. Right now there are Rekkles, Genja, Tabzz, CandyPanda, Celaver, Forgiven, Creaton and MrRallez. Does Freeze have a place for him in Europe right now?
Things might become more clear after NA promotions, but right now it's very hard to find spots for them, LCS is way more stacked than it was before.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
C9T vs EG gonna be good. Also LMQ vs XDG 
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Really hoping C9 kicks EG out...
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Imagine if XDG somehow beat LMQ.. I think I'd die from laughter
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Jesus christ I'd be sad if at least one challenger team didn't make it in.
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Honestly I think XDG wins 3-1. I don't think LMQ can beat XDG when both are playing their best.
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On April 26 2014 12:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 11:07 Redox wrote:
What I am most interested in is if there will be any roster changes for the next split. I would actually be surprised if there are none. There are quite a few talented players available now in EU. For example Nukeduck and Freeze are surely not ready to retire, they will look for a team. Let's just think. Fnatic are ok with their roster. SK are ok. Roccat are ok, Alliance are ok, Gambit are ok. So we're left with 3 teams who just fought their way back into LCS. Copenhagen Wolves to fight for top spots if meta changes have to change at least ONE sololaner and better two. Who are free agents? Right, Zorozero and nukeduck + Odoamne/Febiven, if ofc CLG doesn't get someone from them. Millenium to fight for top spots...i really dunno lol. On paper they have very smart roster, which has raw mechanics, talent, balls and smart calls. Guess, they're ok as well, if Kerp doesn't derp with assassins and KottenX doesn't overdive. Supa Hot Crew XD seems to play way better than they played before, so i don't think they will change roster at least now as well. It's hard for Freeze to find LCS team right now. Last split, well, Freeze came instead of Tess, who was underperforming for 2 splits and i hadn't heard about him since. Right now there are Rekkles, Genja, Tabzz, CandyPanda, Celaver, Forgiven, Creaton and MrRallez. Does Freeze have a place for him in Europe right now? Things might become more clear after NA promotions, but right now it's very hard to find spots for them, LCS is way more stacked than it was before.
I agree with you mostly but tbh CW could also be looking for a support, unlimited really isn't impressive. It's funny that EU ads had such a bad reputation and now the EU ad line-up is so stacked. Only one that's not -that- good is celaver but there's no way he will be replaced since full polish bro team.
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I really think they should change the promotion, demotion. So that it is like football where the bottom two or three teams get demoted and the top two or three teams of challenger gets promoted.
It is sooooo boring that the same teams are in because they win this one bo5 after they performed horribly in main season. This would also make the whole lcs more interesting because it would be massively exciting in the bottom of the bracket. And the main point, we would be guaranteed to see new teams after each split. In return it might also make the challenger more exciting and competitive because the teams would be guaranteed to promote if they do well.
If they when would also implement the bo2 from Korea with the point system it would be so good.
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On April 26 2014 19:44 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I really think they should change the promotion, demotion. So that it is like football where the bottom two or three teams get demoted and the top two or three teams of challenger gets promoted.
It is sooooo boring that the same teams are in because they win this one bo5 after they performed horribly in main season. This would also make the whole lcs more interesting because it would be massively exciting in the bottom of the bracket. And the main point, we would be guaranteed to see new teams after each split. In return it might also make the challenger more exciting and competitive because the teams would be guaranteed to promote if they do well.
If they when would also implement the bo2 from Korea with the point system it would be so good.
You can't do that in such a young sport where getting demoted basically means the end of your career...
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You know, we could expand the LCS... Oh wait, Rito controls everything and probably doesn't want to play more money on player salaries... 
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On April 26 2014 20:28 hasuprotoss wrote:You know, we could expand the LCS... Oh wait, Rito controls everything and probably doesn't want to play more money on player salaries...
Why would you expand the LCS? So more bad teams can hand around being punching bags while there is even less talent in the challenger scene?
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On April 26 2014 20:28 hasuprotoss wrote:You know, we could expand the LCS... Oh wait, Rito controls everything and probably doesn't want to play more money on player salaries...
well not only would riot have to pay out 250k more in salaries if they expand to 10 teams for instance but it adds a ton of games which in return forces the whole staff to work even more and longer and probably also brings a lot of scheduling conflicts because they'd have to stretch it to mroe weeks probably.
Personally I don't want more teams, already have lcs fatigue after week 6 or 7 and only wait for playoffs^^
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On April 26 2014 19:44 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I really think they should change the promotion, demotion. So that it is like football where the bottom two or three teams get demoted and the top two or three teams of challenger gets promoted.
It is sooooo boring that the same teams are in because they win this one bo5 after they performed horribly in main season. This would also make the whole lcs more interesting because it would be massively exciting in the bottom of the bracket. And the main point, we would be guaranteed to see new teams after each split. In return it might also make the challenger more exciting and competitive because the teams would be guaranteed to promote if they do well.
If they when would also implement the bo2 from Korea with the point system it would be so good.
I'd say a BO5 format is enough games to decide who is the better team, and they know who they are playing weeks in advance to prepare for them.
I'd rather not let some shit challenger team in just because the format is stupid. If the bottom 3 of the LCS are better than any challenger team out there, then that's that.
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Would almost be more interesting to do the opposite, Only 4-5 teams in LCS, but have promotions every 4-5 weeks instead. (something like make every super week into a promotions week instead.)
Something like this:
5 teams in lcs
Each split is 5 weeks long
top 2 teams are safe, bottom team gets kicked to challenger,
3rd/4th go into relegations.
Maybe have each finish gives points to qualify for the next big event (all stars for the first 2-3 splits, worlds for the second 2-3)
Then from challenger series (which will also be 5 week splits, maybe starting each split a week ahead of the actual LCS splits or something, format could be shortened groups (like a 3-4 round swiss or something), 12 teams, top 8 go to brackets, bottom 4 play vs top ranked 5's teams for their spot in challenger)
Top team goes into lcs
2nd and 3rd go into promotion matches vs the 3rd/4th lcs teams who are getting relegated.
4-8 go into group for next challenger season.
Constant tension in lcs
if you get relegated you can get in again pretty quickly/reliably if you actually deserve it.
potential for new teams to come into the challenger league every 5 weeks
1st/2nd actually means something in challenger
constant cycling of teams
more then two chances a year to make it into lcs, currently if you lose this summer promos, it's like 7-8 MONTHS before you can even TRY to qualify for lcs again. Like, wtf rito, way to nurture challenger teams
Way fewer stompy games in lcs, as only the current best 5 teams are there.
awesomeness
ofc there are plenty of new problems anything like this would bring in, but it would be so much more fun as a viewer >.>
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 26 2014 20:31 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 20:28 hasuprotoss wrote:You know, we could expand the LCS... Oh wait, Rito controls everything and probably doesn't want to play more money on player salaries... Why would you expand the LCS? So more bad teams can hand around being punching bags while there is even less talent in the challenger scene?
I absolutely agree here but when i said that on first page in arguing with NA fan, he said that i'm willfully obnoxious. :p
Let's just check right now.
It's 3 Promotions in Europe.
What happened first time? Bad Dragonborns were eliminated because of pause, mediocre chokers from aAa got eliminated as well, also interesting Giants team got eliminated. What did we get? Lemondogs who were at Worlds in the end, Alternate Attax, who were dominating LCS for 7-8 weeks and MYM, who had interesting personalities and were fun to watch sometimes, especially in early season.
What happened second time? MYM, who were 9-19, got eliminated by roaring CW squad, many of TLers were predicting them to go hard in the split, SK barely edged SHC, lost Nyph and i, for one, was predicting them to go to relegations, and we won't touch NiP here. What did we get? SK won regular season, SHC were the weakest team in LCS in general, CW were boring as fuck but noone could predict them to be eliminated.
It means that Challenger scene is just not ready right now. It really reminds me of our soccer championship in Russia. When playoffs for getting in and out were introduced, many were hyped that it will help the competition and noone will match-fix to stay in RFPL. What happened on paper? For 2 seasons, Premier-League 13-14 places just destroy 3-4 places from FNL. Just fucking destroy, without single chance.
Right now, who are in Challenger scene in EU? C9E, who can't play without k0u and NiP who will be disbanded soon i assume. Also there are Denial who got rolled by Wolves without a chance, Reason, who got rolled by Denial without a chance and that's it. Sad stuff.
On April 26 2014 18:19 RouaF wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 12:19 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On April 26 2014 11:07 Redox wrote:
What I am most interested in is if there will be any roster changes for the next split. I would actually be surprised if there are none. There are quite a few talented players available now in EU. For example Nukeduck and Freeze are surely not ready to retire, they will look for a team. Let's just think. Fnatic are ok with their roster. SK are ok. Roccat are ok, Alliance are ok, Gambit are ok. So we're left with 3 teams who just fought their way back into LCS. Copenhagen Wolves to fight for top spots if meta changes have to change at least ONE sololaner and better two. Who are free agents? Right, Zorozero and nukeduck + Odoamne/Febiven, if ofc CLG doesn't get someone from them. Millenium to fight for top spots...i really dunno lol. On paper they have very smart roster, which has raw mechanics, talent, balls and smart calls. Guess, they're ok as well, if Kerp doesn't derp with assassins and KottenX doesn't overdive. Supa Hot Crew XD seems to play way better than they played before, so i don't think they will change roster at least now as well. It's hard for Freeze to find LCS team right now. Last split, well, Freeze came instead of Tess, who was underperforming for 2 splits and i hadn't heard about him since. Right now there are Rekkles, Genja, Tabzz, CandyPanda, Celaver, Forgiven, Creaton and MrRallez. Does Freeze have a place for him in Europe right now? Things might become more clear after NA promotions, but right now it's very hard to find spots for them, LCS is way more stacked than it was before. I agree with you mostly but tbh CW could also be looking for a support, unlimited really isn't impressive. It's funny that EU ads had such a bad reputation and now the EU ad line-up is so stacked. Only one that's not -that- good is celaver but there's no way he will be replaced since full polish bro team.
Dunno, i like Unlimited for one, but he's too cocky sometimes. He's like European Mata but with less skill and brains (hope i didn't offend him here) + Forgiven isn't imp and doesn't follow him usually. Or sometimes at least.
Only guy who can replace Celaver is Creaton but Creaton confirmed his LCS spot, so no way. He's good for Roccat because he's consistent, some kind of European Cop. He just needs to expand his champion pool for competitive and i still have no idea why didn't Roccat put him on Vayne a single time if his Vayne carried them into LCS.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Don't worry at some point the random shuffles of challenger scene players will occasionally result in something good. Roccat had to burn through like 50 jungle/supports before arriving at jankos and vander.
NiP and C9E could stay together since they should have amin and k0u next promos and maybe the rest of the challenger scene can form some kind of 3rd super team like beansu/trashy/exileh/crazycaps/sixx.
One thing though that I think candypanda said, wolves/SHC/roccat had ages to prepare and practice, they got to play against the relegated teams throughout the challenger scene and could develop experience and strategies against them. This time C9E/Denial/NiP had a week or two to get ready and never got any chance to play against the relegated teams since they went straight to promos and had no chance to participate in challenger tournaments
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On April 26 2014 20:31 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 20:28 hasuprotoss wrote:You know, we could expand the LCS... Oh wait, Rito controls everything and probably doesn't want to play more money on player salaries... Why would you expand the LCS? So more bad teams can hand around being punching bags while there is even less talent in the challenger scene?
Yeah, let's make it so that the initial bad teams who were lucky enough to get into the LCS are slightly less bad than those unlucky enough to not be the original few in the LCS so they can continue being trash.
That's essentially what I'm seeing out of all this. While an expansion may not help, at least the scene wouldn't grow stale, which it certainly is beginning to feel like.
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On April 26 2014 21:59 hasuprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 20:31 Gorsameth wrote:On April 26 2014 20:28 hasuprotoss wrote:You know, we could expand the LCS... Oh wait, Rito controls everything and probably doesn't want to play more money on player salaries... Why would you expand the LCS? So more bad teams can hand around being punching bags while there is even less talent in the challenger scene? Yeah, let's make it so that the initial bad teams who were lucky enough to get into the LCS are slightly less bad than those unlucky enough to not be the original few in the LCS so they can continue being trash. That's essentially what I'm seeing out of all this. While an expansion may not help, at least the scene wouldn't grow stale, which it certainly is beginning to feel like.
Not sure what you are talking about, quite a few of the "initial teams" have been removed/replaced by now. Frankly the promo series show that the system works, if your 8th place team is still strong enough to beat the "best" challenger team they deserve to play in the league. Remember how C9 stomped promos?
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EPT
