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People call Regi weak because he seems to play very linearly. It's purely aggro and if he gets set back significantly like this last game, he has trouble making an impact for his team for the remainder of the game.
As a carry, you need to be able to pull it together and still make plays. Regardless if your team is ahead or behind.
Yeah that's true I guess. He prefers to play champions that can initiate and make plays (like Ryze, or s2 Karthus), and struggles with more passive champs like Orianna even though he's decent with her mechanically...
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On February 15 2013 10:07 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 10:05 Fwmeh wrote:On February 15 2013 10:00 nxk wrote:On February 15 2013 09:59 Slow Motion wrote:On February 15 2013 09:58 nxk wrote:
Seems to me that OddOne can only play support junglers and it's really limiting the team comps that TSM can run. Hopefully he can step it up soon or TSM might drop down to #4 if not lower. That's exactly what Saint said about OddOne coming into Season 3 but of course everyone dismissed him as a hater. Yeah, I always thought TOO was the weakest player on TSM and now the s3 changes have hit him really hard. And I think you are wrong on both accounts. If you're going to say someone's opinion is wrong, you better offer something better. Frankly, I don't think S3 did OddOne any service, if he's not your pick for TSM's weakest link, then who is?
Regi is clearly their weakest link, was this not obvious to everyone? I would also say that lately, ChaoX is also playing worse. If you criticize TOO for only playing tanky support junglers, what about Chaox who can only play MF and Ez with any degree of success lately? And frankly, I don't think he does that well on Ez, comparatively.
I don't think S3 really affected TOO at all, if anything the increased focus on tankiness suits him just fine. He is however somewhat dependent on being able to make plays for his lanes, and when they fall behind to a level when they are ungankable, he cannot really recover (very very few can though). But this is nothing new for S3, his playstyle was always like that. Locket being good to rush on junglers is perfect for his style imo.
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United States23745 Posts
dig is obviously conspiring to ruin my predictions, disqualify for collusion pls.
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People are forgetting how TSM utterly destroyed Dig during Week 1.
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Hungary6034 Posts
On February 15 2013 10:26 nxk wrote:Show nested quote +
People call Regi weak because he seems to play very linearly. It's purely aggro and if he gets set back significantly like this last game, he has trouble making an impact for his team for the remainder of the game.
As a carry, you need to be able to pull it together and still make plays. Regardless if your team is ahead or behind.
Yeah that's true I guess. He prefers to play champions that can initiate and make plays (like Ryze, or s2 Karthus), and struggles with more passive champs like Orianna even though he's decent with her mechanically...
If you had seen Regi practicing Anivia (it was a while ago in S2, so probably a lot of ppl missed it) you would never ever mention his name with mechanics in the same sentence. Thats why he played a lot of Karthus and Morgana you don't need good mechanics to make them work.
You know what was the biggest difference between Regi's Morgana and Nyjacky's Morgana? Nijacky hit almost all of his bindings (even in the fog of war, that guy is crazy-good), Regi missed almost all of them. Mechanics.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
dig got the right idea in the pre-game intro vid - TSM played really predictably and got outplayed.
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Hungary6034 Posts
On February 15 2013 10:32 Sufficiency wrote:
People are forgetting how TSM utterly destroyed Dig during Week 1.
Dignitas switched it up, TSM (once again) failed to adapt. Is Dignitas a better team now? I don't know, no one knows, but they apaprently figured TSM out. Take away MF from Chaox so he's uselss, which drags down Xpecial as well (though he failed that first Zenith Blade under the tower, but whatever). Don't let TOO pull the same trick 1239826182713612 times in a row, three people down. Regi is Regi, 4 people down. Good luck carrying them, Dyrus.
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On February 15 2013 10:26 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 10:07 NeoIllusions wrote:On February 15 2013 10:05 Fwmeh wrote:On February 15 2013 10:00 nxk wrote:On February 15 2013 09:59 Slow Motion wrote:On February 15 2013 09:58 nxk wrote:
Seems to me that OddOne can only play support junglers and it's really limiting the team comps that TSM can run. Hopefully he can step it up soon or TSM might drop down to #4 if not lower. That's exactly what Saint said about OddOne coming into Season 3 but of course everyone dismissed him as a hater. Yeah, I always thought TOO was the weakest player on TSM and now the s3 changes have hit him really hard. And I think you are wrong on both accounts. If you're going to say someone's opinion is wrong, you better offer something better. Frankly, I don't think S3 did OddOne any service, if he's not your pick for TSM's weakest link, then who is? Regi is clearly their weakest link, was this not obvious to everyone? I would also say that lately, ChaoX is also playing worse. If you criticize TOO for only playing tanky support junglers, what about Chaox who can only play MF and Ez with any degree of success lately? And frankly, I don't think he does that well on Ez, comparatively. I don't think S3 really affected TOO at all, if anything the increased focus on tankiness suits him just fine. He is however somewhat dependent on being able to make plays for his lanes, and when they fall behind to a level when they are ungankable, he cannot really recover (very very few can though). But this is nothing new for S3, his playstyle was always like that. Locket being good to rush on junglers is perfect for his style imo.
The main problem with OddOne though is that he sacrifices a lot of farm efficiency to wait for ganks. Against weak teams it's fine because they can always convert the gank into a kill, but against top teams he just falls further and further behind. Yes the OddOne can play tanky junglers well but he's not really tanky if you fall behind on farm in the mid game.
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This subforum swings really violently with TSM. They have good games and bad games, last week they lost to CLG, "they don't have what it takes anymore" then they win their next games and everyone swings the other way. Now TSM goes 1-1 on the day and people are back to talking about how they just aren't good enough. Very few posts actually make it seem like TSM is a competent team, which they still are, for sure. xD
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Hungary6034 Posts
On February 15 2013 10:50 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
This subforum swings really violently with TSM. They have good games and bad games, last week they lost to CLG, "they don't have what it takes anymore" then they win their next games and everyone swings the other way. Now TSM goes 1-1 on the day and people are back to talking about how they just aren't good enough. Very few posts actually make it seem like TSM is a competent team, which they still are, for sure. xD
I can only talk for myself but I like to take every opportunity to emhasize that they still don't stand any chance versus hard-working, Asian teams, and would be probably beaten by most of the top European teams as well. They are still a force to reckon with in NA and will be, no one can doubt that, but they never seem to work really hard on their flaws which exist for a very long time now. I can't say Chaox is clearly off when he's crushing faces with MF, but when he actually has to switch it up, he just looks miserable, so I take this opportunity for example to say that he needs work on his mindset, or else TSM's story will be the same as they go abroad: "HOW DID THEY LOSE, I THOUGHT THEY ARE BEST TEAM NA!".
Just look at Curse, they are everything right now TSM is not. Having a huge lead? They can keep it. Being banned out? No problem, HUUUGE champion pool. Being behind? No problem, the players are good enough individually that they can carry each other to the point they all play solid enough.
Right now, this is how TSM looks like: Did Chaox get MF? Y/N. Did OddOne dived successfully? Y/N. Can Dyrus carry them? Y/N. I'm not impressed.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 15 2013 11:00 Volband wrote:
Just look at Curse, they are everything right now TSM is not. Having a huge lead? They can keep it. Being banned out? No problem, HUUUGE champion pool. Being behind? No problem, the players are good enough individually that they can carry each other to the point they all play solid enough.
Individual skill is actually arguably Curse's biggest shortcoming, particularly in the jungle and bot lane.
Curse just looks like the only NA team that actually knows how to play as a team past the 30 minute mark.
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Hungary6034 Posts
On February 15 2013 11:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 11:00 Volband wrote:
Just look at Curse, they are everything right now TSM is not. Having a huge lead? They can keep it. Being banned out? No problem, HUUUGE champion pool. Being behind? No problem, the players are good enough individually that they can carry each other to the point they all play solid enough. Individual skill is actually arguably Curse's biggest shortcoming, particularly in the jungle and bot lane. Curse just looks like the only NA team that actually knows how to play as a team past the 30 minute mark.
Nyjacky, Voyboy, Stvicious... they are all pretty damn good individually, most of the teams would like to call them shortcomings in their own team. Which if funny, because today their bot lane carried them out of that minor slump (Voyboy not dominating his lane [even losing for some point], Saint missing 2 dragons [though this is a team fail], Jacky sleeping a bit too much). Old Curse was all about Jacky, but things have changed.
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On February 15 2013 11:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 11:00 Volband wrote:
Just look at Curse, they are everything right now TSM is not. Having a huge lead? They can keep it. Being banned out? No problem, HUUUGE champion pool. Being behind? No problem, the players are good enough individually that they can carry each other to the point they all play solid enough. Individual skill is actually arguably Curse's biggest shortcoming, particularly in the jungle and bot lane. Curse just looks like the only NA team that actually knows how to play as a team past the 30 minute mark.
In NA, it really isn't a huge short coming. The way cop and elementz are playing, in just during laning phase, they're probably #2 in NA right now imo. St.V gunna need to increase champion pool, he's starting to attract a lot of bans. It's been a while since junglers started attracting more than one ban. lol.
Though I agree, if compared to international scene, they simply don't have a "maknoob", or "froggen" on their team. Despite voyboy being godly good in NA scene, he'd easily get crushed by Caomei, Shy, Maknoob, tiers of players.
Nyjacky can maybe hold is own against froggen/toyz/misaya tier players (just in nature of how midlane works out), but his teamfight presence not nearly as strong as they are.
And obviously elementz is no godlife, and cop is far away from bebe/pray/dl tier.
st.v maybe the closest thing they have to a top-top-top tier international player, but that's just cuz junglers everywhere are just all around the same level.
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On February 15 2013 11:21 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 11:10 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 11:00 Volband wrote:
Just look at Curse, they are everything right now TSM is not. Having a huge lead? They can keep it. Being banned out? No problem, HUUUGE champion pool. Being behind? No problem, the players are good enough individually that they can carry each other to the point they all play solid enough. Individual skill is actually arguably Curse's biggest shortcoming, particularly in the jungle and bot lane. Curse just looks like the only NA team that actually knows how to play as a team past the 30 minute mark. Nyjacky, Voyboy, Stvicious... they are all pretty damn good individually, most of the teams would like to call them shortcomings in their own team. Which if funny, because today their bot lane carried them out of that minor slump (Voyboy not dominating his lane [even losing for some point], Saint missing 2 dragons [though this is a team fail], Jacky sleeping a bit too much). Old Curse was all about Jacky, but things have changed.
Saint's Hecarim was the one that carried them out of the situation imo with the way he played the teamfights.
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On February 15 2013 11:23 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 11:21 Volband wrote:On February 15 2013 11:10 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 11:00 Volband wrote:
Just look at Curse, they are everything right now TSM is not. Having a huge lead? They can keep it. Being banned out? No problem, HUUUGE champion pool. Being behind? No problem, the players are good enough individually that they can carry each other to the point they all play solid enough. Individual skill is actually arguably Curse's biggest shortcoming, particularly in the jungle and bot lane. Curse just looks like the only NA team that actually knows how to play as a team past the 30 minute mark. Nyjacky, Voyboy, Stvicious... they are all pretty damn good individually, most of the teams would like to call them shortcomings in their own team. Which if funny, because today their bot lane carried them out of that minor slump (Voyboy not dominating his lane [even losing for some point], Saint missing 2 dragons [though this is a team fail], Jacky sleeping a bit too much). Old Curse was all about Jacky, but things have changed. Lautemortis' Vi was the one that carried them out of the situation imo with the way he played the teamfights.
FTFY.
Literally all curse did was ran at the Kog. oh and pick up all the free kills.
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Somewhat on the fence with today's results. Pretty disappointed that MARN didn't put up more of a fight against Dig when Dignitas seemed to be struggling last week. Then again, pretty fun to watch Dig beat out TSM. Even more fun is the reaction from all the different communities. I enjoyed that part at least!
A bit interested in how col/the brunch club will end up doing. They seem to have the same issues as most of the other teams where they can't finish a game off. Overall though, they were one of the better teams today. They were in a decently good position against Curse today(which isn't so easy at the moment considering their run), but it just fell apart.
The rest of the qualifying teams didn't perform anywhere near what I'd like to have happened. Although there seems to be more personality in NA, the overall team quality seems much better in EU/Asian teams which will always be disappointing.
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TSM cannot play from behind. Like, they haven't had even a small comeback since those losses to Blaze last summer.
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United States37500 Posts
On February 15 2013 10:50 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
This subforum swings really violently with TSM. They have good games and bad games, last week they lost to CLG, "they don't have what it takes anymore" then they win their next games and everyone swings the other way. Now TSM goes 1-1 on the day and people are back to talking about how they just aren't good enough. Very few posts actually make it seem like TSM is a competent team, which they still are, for sure. xD
I agree that TL LoL rides on TSM the hardest (before and since LCS has started) but it's not personal. In Season 2, TSM was the undisputed top NA team. They had the most accolades and first place finishes last season, that can't be argued. But since then, they've fallen out of form, so people scrutinize.
From the highest of highs (at least from the NA scene XD) to "competent" is quite the fall. But that doesn't change the fact that TSM is still the most popular team on TL LoL (imo).
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Ehhhhhh, tbh S2 was easy ride for TSM for the most part... We saw like only like 2 TSM vs CLG lan tournament games all season... Though no doubt they were top S2 NA team, but that simply wasn't cutting it, as seen by WCS.
TSM still strong in NA, top 3 for sure, but is that really saying much? I mean just look at NA competition... CLG/TSM/Crs only ones looking strong for NA scene, but could they even realistically compete against international power houses? Maybe CLG and Crs; TSM always been shaky against different metas.
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This is what I was talking about Asmo, T S&M
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EPT
