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On February 16 2013 05:12 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +I also admit that TSM's weakest point is that they are very poor at adapting. Case in point: Jarvan and Xin are unavailable, Oddone ends up picking Maokai as jungler when he had much better options for their comp available.
I can't say I like their teamcomp overall. I prefer Maokai when the lanes are stronger, so that his CC will secure kills. When/if the lanes are weaker, his ganks suffer much more than a more damage heavy jangle. But then, they picked Oriana into Diana, and I personally favour Diana post 6. I guess it can go well if Oriana can harass Diana early on, though. Maybe TSM banked on that.
Singed is always really hard to gank, unless you 3 man dive (and don't screw it up). And we saw how hard Draven Zyra dominated Ezreal Leona. Leona might be sort of symbolic for TSM, strong when ahead, but rarely recovers once behind.
For them to get back to the top (rather than just being 3-4th team US) they need to find some new ideas, which suite their style, and exploit that. Picking the current strongest champs only takes you so far.
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United States8298 Posts
@ Regi not being the weak link, he was basically letting Diana have his way with the lane early, when it should be significantly favored towards Orianna. Diana winning that lane (by not losing early -> picking up kills) had a huge influence over that game.
@Maokai - I agree, I would have taken a jungler that can bring more damage while still having a good gapclose. Physical damage is a plus, because despite having Renekton, their comp had very little physical damage to take advantage of armor shred. Nocturne or Vi come to mind.
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So is Renekton not an earlygame champ anymore? Has that S2 idea been blown out of the water with the S3 changes? Because Dyrus was much stronger than Singed by standard gold metrics, but couldn't prevent singed from applying pressure mid-lategame.
Who was better than Maokai for TSM's lineup (besides the banned junglers)? To me, they picked a lineup that had to win early, and Maokai secures early kills better than any other jungler. If they wanted a balanced comp they would have put Dyrus on Olaf and picked a ranged support.
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United States35174 Posts
On February 16 2013 05:40 sylverfyre wrote:
@ Regi not being the weak link, he was basically letting Diana have his way with the lane early, when it should be significantly favored towards Orianna. Diana winning that lane (by not losing early -> picking up kills) had a huge influence over that game.
@Maokai - I agree, I would have taken a jungler that can bring more damage while still having a good gapclose. Physical damage is a plus, because despite having Renekton, their comp had very little physical damage to take advantage of armor shred. Nocturne or Vi come to mind.
Which is weird because for a spell TOO was playing Nocturne to such a great effect that people were banning it instead of Maokai. Then, he just stopped. Same can be said for Dyrus with Vlad.
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On February 16 2013 06:15 cLutZ wrote:
So is Renekton not an earlygame champ anymore? Has that S2 idea been blown out of the water with the S3 changes? Because Dyrus was much stronger than Singed by standard gold metrics, but couldn't prevent singed from applying pressure mid-lategame.
Who was better than Maokai for TSM's lineup (besides the banned junglers)? To me, they picked a lineup that had to win early, and Maokai secures early kills better than any other jungler. If they wanted a balanced comp they would have put Dyrus on Olaf and picked a ranged support.
The deal with Renekton lately is that he can fulfill a late game role of shredding with e, other than just being tanky. More generally paired with MF as TSM did their first game. But overall, I just think their comp was weaksauce.
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On February 16 2013 06:15 cLutZ wrote:
So is Renekton not an earlygame champ anymore? Has that S2 idea been blown out of the water with the S3 changes? Because Dyrus was much stronger than Singed by standard gold metrics, but couldn't prevent singed from applying pressure mid-lategame.
Who was better than Maokai for TSM's lineup (besides the banned junglers)? To me, they picked a lineup that had to win early, and Maokai secures early kills better than any other jungler. If they wanted a balanced comp they would have put Dyrus on Olaf and picked a ranged support.
Mao pick wasn't necessarily terrible but I guess it emphasizes oddone's limited champion pool, he plays alot of shit in SoloQ but he is not confident to to play stuff like Hecarin or Lee competetively I guess. Noc in this case e.g. would have been a decent pick.
I actually think Crumbzz postgame interview was very insightful of how the game snowballed so hard, oddone's flash near the tier 2 turret after xpecial and oddone ganked him, was so retarded. Crumbzz just had to predict where he would gank next for the perfect countergank and Reginald was like: Dude gank mid I bait him. > Boom doublebuff and doublekill Scarra. Not only was it a huge missplay from regi who would have died anyway even if crumbz didnt come but Oddone couldn't get away either cause he burned his flash earler for no reason. Well and Mao vs Xin at all stages of the game isn't even close.
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On February 16 2013 05:36 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 05:12 sylverfyre wrote:I also admit that TSM's weakest point is that they are very poor at adapting. Case in point: Jarvan and Xin are unavailable, Oddone ends up picking Maokai as jungler when he had much better options for their comp available. I can't say I like their teamcomp overall. I prefer Maokai when the lanes are stronger, so that his CC will secure kills. When/if the lanes are weaker, his ganks suffer much more than a more damage heavy jangle. But then, they picked Oriana into Diana, and I personally favour Diana post 6. I guess it can go well if Oriana can harass Diana early on, though. Maybe TSM banked on that. Singed is always really hard to gank, unless you 3 man dive (and don't screw it up). And we saw how hard Draven Zyra dominated Ezreal Leona. Leona might be sort of symbolic for TSM, strong when ahead, but rarely recovers once behind. For them to get back to the top (rather than just being 3-4th team US) they need to find some new ideas, which suite their style, and exploit that. Picking the current strongest champs only takes you so far.
Find = Copy from EU
But yea i dont really see TSM comming back this season, because of their teamplay and individiual skill. The other teams are becomming better and TSM just cant grow anymore because they go in with the wrong mindset in games.
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United States47024 Posts
I agree with Neo saying that Chaox is the weakest link on TSM. He doesn't have the throw potential that Regi does, but he also doesn't actually do anything to win the game for TSM. He just rides on the opportunity that his teammates give him. He farms when he's given space, and doesn't do anything to make TSM win.
To me Chaox just feels like he has the least impact on the actual outcome of the game out of anyone on TSM, which is a bad thing when he has the highest farm priority.
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United States23745 Posts
Alright, let's see if Curse can finally take a game off of one of the lower tier teams without letting them get a huge lead first.
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I'm not sure if he is THE weakest link but definitely one of the big problems.His champ pool is so insanely poor for an adc.You really should be able to play every ad other than urgot really well.It's like he forgets how to play everything other than the current op.
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um um ahh.. what is this.
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On February 16 2013 09:40 TheYango wrote:
I agree with Neo saying that Chaox is the weakest link on TSM. He doesn't have the throw potential that Regi does, but he also doesn't actually do anything to win the game for TSM. He just rides on the opportunity that his teammates give him. He farms when he's given space, and doesn't do anything to make TSM win.
To me Chaox just feels like he has the least impact on the actual outcome of the game out of anyone on TSM, which is a bad thing when he has the highest farm priority.
I´m no expert and I dont watch all the games, but from my point of view that also has to do with the general kinda struggle adc´s are facing lately. I cant recall many games lately where the adc rly carried hard other than 2Lift. Maybe its the lack of good adc´s too with Rekkles out in EU.
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On February 16 2013 09:57 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright, let's see if Curse can finally take a game off of one of the lower tier teams without letting them get a huge lead first.
Nah, losing 3 inhibs and nexus turrets isn't enough, they gotta do that, have a 100 hp nexus, and still win. Gotta make it interesting.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 16 2013 10:01 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 09:57 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright, let's see if Curse can finally take a game off of one of the lower tier teams without letting them get a huge lead first. Nah, losing 3 inhibs and nexus turrets isn't enough, they gotta do that, have a 100 hp nexus, and still win. Gotta make it interesting.
I don't think my heart could take that lol.
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On February 16 2013 10:01 Kenpark wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 09:40 TheYango wrote:
I agree with Neo saying that Chaox is the weakest link on TSM. He doesn't have the throw potential that Regi does, but he also doesn't actually do anything to win the game for TSM. He just rides on the opportunity that his teammates give him. He farms when he's given space, and doesn't do anything to make TSM win.
To me Chaox just feels like he has the least impact on the actual outcome of the game out of anyone on TSM, which is a bad thing when he has the highest farm priority. I´m no expert and I dont watch all the games, but from my point of view that also has to do with the general kinda struggle adc´s are facing lately. I cant recall many games lately where the adc rly carried hard other than 2Lift. Maybe its the lack of good adc´s too with Rekkles out in EU.
yellowpete carried EG pretty hard in one of the games imo
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Looking forward to how GGU does this week. Plus Of course GO CURSE!
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2 am finally. Hopefully i wont fall asleep before all games are finished 
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On February 16 2013 10:09 Sponkz wrote:2 am finally. Hopefully i wont fall asleep before all games are finished
Unfortunately I think im gonna fall asleep before Crs's 20 min
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On February 16 2013 10:09 Sponkz wrote:2 am finally. Hopefully i wont fall asleep before all games are finished
3am here. Gonna be hard too since uni started so been waking up at 7 and might be bunch of stomps :<
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EPT
