At first i thought it was just people being paranoid but the latest evidence are quite damning imo.
But then again, it's really hard to blame the players. Rotate your neck a few degrees and you can see the minimap. It's unrealistic to keep your eyes on the monitor all the time. Players turn to talk to others as well. And sometimes you just forgot there are minimaps behind you. . But i guess if it's in the rules and some teams are repeat offenders then they gotta give them warnings at least.
It's really poor planning from organizer point of view.
I don't buy the "we want players interaction". Players being in transparent booths does not reduce interaction at all. It is not as if the audience can reach to the players and shake their hands like in rock concerts. It's probably logistic issue ( booths expensive, very hard to set up at outdoor venue). At least they should say that upfront rather than make up ridiculous excuse thinking that we viewers are stupid.
On October 07 2012 19:10 dtz wrote: At first i thought it was just people being paranoid but the latest evidence are quite damning imo.
But then again, it's really hard to blame the players. Rotate your neck a few degrees and you can see the minimap. It's unrealistic to keep your eyes on the monitor all the time. Players turn to talk to others as well. And sometimes you just forgot there are minimaps behind you. . But i guess if it's in the rules and some teams are repeat offenders then they gotta give them warnings at least.
It's really poor planning from organizer point of view.
I don't buy the "we want players interaction". Players being in transparent booths does not reduce interaction at all. It is not as if the audience can reach to the players and shake their hands like in rock concerts. It's probably logistic issue ( booths expensive, very hard to set up at outdoor venue). At least they should say that upfront rather than make up ridiculous excuse thinking that we viewers are stupid.
how are booths harder to install in their outdoor venue then in a indoor venue?
On October 07 2012 15:44 WilDMousE wrote: The saddest point of it is that all this thing has gotten a lot of people to pitchfork about everything, now there's a witch-hunt to azubu frost for "peeking" at the main screen during the game 2 pause, (wich acording to chaox in this video) caused TSM to lose (Good joke TSM, you sure had it...)
Are you real ? Did you even watch the video ? He basically said they "played better".
Also the whole fuss about Azubu and WE watching the minimap behind their shoulders is really sad. No character, I'm pretty sure CLG.eu didn't do that.
The ironic thing is if this was KESPA tournament AF would 100% get Disqualified for this. + Show Spoiler +
On October 07 2012 19:10 dtz wrote: At first i thought it was just people being paranoid but the latest evidence are quite damning imo.
But then again, it's really hard to blame the players. Rotate your neck a few degrees and you can see the minimap. It's unrealistic to keep your eyes on the monitor all the time. Players turn to talk to others as well. And sometimes you just forgot there are minimaps behind you. . But i guess if it's in the rules and some teams are repeat offenders then they gotta give them warnings at least.
It's really poor planning from organizer point of view.
I don't buy the "we want players interaction". Players being in transparent booths does not reduce interaction at all. It is not as if the audience can reach to the players and shake their hands like in rock concerts. It's probably logistic issue ( booths expensive, very hard to set up at outdoor venue). At least they should say that upfront rather than make up ridiculous excuse thinking that we viewers are stupid.
how are booths harder to install in their outdoor venue then in a indoor venue?
I have no idea. I just assumed because I don't see any logical reason why they don't want booths and I really don't buy their player interaction excuse.
On October 07 2012 16:22 Caphe wrote: It was 5AM for me when the re-game between CLG.eu vs WE finished. So I went to sleep. Could you guys please summarize what happen after that for me? I've read the last few pages of this thread and I am confusing. Is this because of the internet or something the player did that force Riot to postpone the game?
More DCs, more re-games, game 3 still yet to actually be conclusively finished.
Basically you didn't miss anything worth watching.
Ooops, thank Yango. Too bad I can't watch today's game since tomorrow is fuking Monday .
On October 07 2012 16:22 Caphe wrote: It was 5AM for me when the re-game between CLG.eu vs WE finished. So I went to sleep. Could you guys please summarize what happen after that for me? I've read the last few pages of this thread and I am confusing. Is this because of the internet or something the player did that force Riot to postpone the game?
More DCs, more re-games, game 3 still yet to actually be conclusively finished.
Basically you didn't miss anything worth watching.
Ooops, thank Yango. Too bad I can't watch today's game since tomorrow is fuking Monday .
There are no games today. The finals was suppose to be next week, but the semis/rest of quarter finals is going to be played before then. Dates/times have not been announced yet.
I can hardly blame the players with how easy Riot made it to cheat.
And a lot of people have said things to defend Riot to the effect of Hindsight is 20/20, but apparently no: Riot's Hindsight isn't 20/20. This isn't the first esports tournament in the world. It's not the first LoL tournament in the world. Those tournaments are things that happened in hindsight, and Riot didn't learn a thing from them. Not putting the screen that can be used to cheat off of in view of the players is extremely basic. You can't just say "Don't look behind you!" with a million dollars on the line.
And the internet issues? People say that Riot couldn't foresee those issues, yet other tournament organizers have. Other major tournaments have had at least two ISPs for redunancy. They weren't just crazy in planning ahead like that either, as MLG had their internet go down and had to use a satellite uplink to broadcast out. Many esports have always had problems with crashing, that's why most games do periodic saves. Riot messed up there. Again, nothing to do with hindsight because it's not something to happen for the first time at the S2 championship, it's happened to many tournaments. So it's not like Riot looked at all these other tournaments having two ISPs and went "Ha, that'll never happen. Never has," because it has happened. It's like they didn't have a single consultant, and had no budget for this thing, despite the huge prize pool. Whose idea was it to be outside, with sun in players eyes, too? All these things defy logic.
On October 07 2012 19:33 CutieBK wrote: Wow... I went to sleep last night thinking that CLG would take the series and then wake up to this :O
This is the biggest eSport scandal for a tournament of this size in history, isn't it?
You say "of this size", but isn't this the largest prize pool ever? So there is really nothing else to compare it to of it's size. But yeah, I think it's the biggest blunder, to put it lightly, of any tournament with a prize pool over 30k. Maybe over 10k. Maybe ever.
They really need to redo the ENTIRE event, fixing the issue of being outside and having a cheat screen in view of the players. All this issues really nullify the wins and Riot needs to admit they messed up.
On October 07 2012 19:34 innociv wrote: I can hardly blame the players with how easy Riot made it to cheat.
And a lot of people have said things to defend Riot to the effect of Hindsight is 20/20, but apparently no: Riot's Hindsight isn't 20/20. This isn't the first esports tournament in the world. It's not the first LoL tournament in the world. Those tournaments are things that happened in hindsight, and Riot didn't learn a thing from them. Not putting the screen that can be used to cheat off of in view of the players is extremely basic. You can't just say "Don't look behind you!" with a million dollars on the line.
And the internet issues? People say that Riot couldn't foresee those issues, yet other tournament organizers have. Other major tournaments have had at least two ISPs for redunancy. They weren't just crazy in planning ahead like that either, as MLG had their internet go down and had to use a satellite uplink to broadcast out. Many esports have always had problems with crashing, that's why most games do periodic saves. Riot messed up there. Again, nothing to do with hindsight because it's not something to happen for the first time at the S2 championship, it's happened to many tournaments. So it's not like Riot looked at all these other tournaments having two ISPs and went "Ha, that'll never happen. Never has," because it has happened. It's like they didn't have a single consultant, and had no budget for this thing, despite the huge prize pool. Whose idea was it to be outside, with sun in players eyes, too? All these things defy logic.
But but but, the big screen is so cool! And yeah we have redundancy by having both twitch AND own3d streams. And it's so much cooler to have it outside than inside x.x
I know you were joking, but the big minimap screen is cool. It was just that players could see it. Or they could at least have showed one teams vision on one side, the others on the other, with only their own in view. I'd love to see that and an overlay of graphs(like both the xp, gold, maybe some others with different colored lines) constantly on and to the side instead of a commentor going "lets look at the gold graph and see.." and flipping that on for a few seconds in major dota2 tournaments.
On October 07 2012 19:43 Cubu wrote: wait so am i reading this thread right?
player does wrong > blame riot ?
If a teacher tapes the answer sheet in the front of the classroom the day of the college entrance exam and tells everyone not to look, who's fault is it when students cheat?
On October 07 2012 19:43 Cubu wrote: wait so am i reading this thread right?
player does wrong > blame riot ?
If a teacher tapes the answer sheet in the front of the classroom the day of the college entrance exam and tells everyone not to look, who's fault is it when students cheat?
So the fruitdealer who let his fruit on the street for everyone to see and to judge is responsible if someone just take his fruits and run away with it.
I see.
The players knew that this was against the rule, they still did it, they are responsible.
On October 07 2012 19:43 Cubu wrote: wait so am i reading this thread right?
player does wrong > blame riot ?
If a teacher tapes the answer sheet in the front of the classroom the day of the college entrance exam and tells everyone not to look, who's fault is it when students cheat?
So the fruitdealer who let his fruit on the street for everyone to see and to judge is responsible if someone just take his fruits and run away with it.
I see.
If he's not selling it but just putting it there for no reason then yes. If he's not selling he could store it elsewhere. Just like Riot could've put a delay on the screen or put it elsewhere.
On October 07 2012 19:43 Cubu wrote: wait so am i reading this thread right?
player does wrong > blame riot ?
If a teacher tapes the answer sheet in the front of the classroom the day of the college entrance exam and tells everyone not to look, who's fault is it when students cheat?
haha, i just thought about the exact same example.
it's both the players and riots fault.
The setup of the venue was just bad, maybe inexperience? I don't know. But I can't get my head around how companies/developers who want a mayor esport title can NOT have lan, at least on the tournament realm. It can't be that hard.
On October 07 2012 19:43 Cubu wrote: wait so am i reading this thread right?
player does wrong > blame riot ?
If a teacher tapes the answer sheet in the front of the classroom the day of the college entrance exam and tells everyone not to look, who's fault is it when students cheat?
So the fruitdealer who let his fruit on the street for everyone to see and to judge is responsible if someone just take his fruits and run away with it.
I see.
The players knew that this was against the rule, they still did it, they are responsible.
Because stealing a couple of dollars worth of fruit is equal to guys cheating to get a million dollars? There is reason jewelry isn't out on display on the streets.
Don't get me wrong though the players are to blame, but so too the venue.
On October 07 2012 19:43 Cubu wrote: wait so am i reading this thread right?
player does wrong > blame riot ?
If a teacher tapes the answer sheet in the front of the classroom the day of the college entrance exam and tells everyone not to look, who's fault is it when students cheat?
But the screen was behind them not front of them like the answer sheets. Now i would of course think otherwise if the screen was in front of the players.
EPT
. 
