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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.
Fair warning to all. |
Even lategame and down a lot of gold, TSM was able to come out relatively even when Sona flash ulted and was able to force an engage. Even the Taiwanese commentators were noting that TSM was not necessarily weaker in the headup engagement, but had absolutely no real way of engaging. I think Shurelyas might have forced some earlier fights in which TSM's advantage in a straight up brawl might come into play, it was certainly one of the most critical things for them to pick up.
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Why are we still talking of TSM? They lost that's it. Who do you think will take CLG.eu vs WE ?
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WE and CLG.eu seemed pretty close on paper coming into the event, but so far CLG.eu has been rather unimpressive in its games wheras iG's play has looked extremely good but highly unstable at times and the coach/personel tells us that WE and iG are fairly close in strength. WE should have the advantage early game and in lane, it'll be up to them to form and solidify that advantage into something more tangible against CLG.eu's more solid and defensive style.
Overall it should be close, but I'd give the advantage to WE.
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I want WE to win if only just to avoid watching more CLG.eu games. I find their (EU) style to be so boring.
Here's hoping to a Misaya TF. Although I'll be surprised if he even gets it once this championship.
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I think it's about even between those two, will depend largely on teampicks and who woke up this morning with the right feeling =) I do think/fear that Azubu Frost will take the event, while I'd rather see a European team take it. Then again, they are playing fantastically and that's deserving of respect aswell =)
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On October 07 2012 00:48 RouaF wrote:
Why are we still talking of TSM? They lost that's it. Who do you think will take CLG.eu vs WE ?
WE has 3 new players correct? Anyone have some recent vods with their new lineup?
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United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2012 00:54 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 00:48 RouaF wrote:
Why are we still talking of TSM? They lost that's it. Who do you think will take CLG.eu vs WE ? WE has 3 new players correct? Anyone have some recent vods with their new lineup?
2.
Where are people getting that they replaced three? Is it the confusing wording in Moonbear's writeup that makes people think Caomei is a new player or something?
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Good morning TL. Time for some League 
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On October 07 2012 00:25 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 23:42 Alaric wrote:On October 06 2012 22:45 mr_tolkien wrote:
Pfew yesterday evening was so stressful, we got 26k viewers on the French stream, highest number for an e-Sport event ever here !
If any TLer watches it, I'd love some feedback ! I did two shoutouts to TL btw, especially to the preview by MoonBear :p Only echo I had was somebody trashing Chips&Noi about how tasteless and almost racist their own trashtalking of the Asian team was. From what I read they're on ogametv too, or was it another stream? (Never really watched them tbh, the level of analysis is too low and the humor doesn't fit mine—the stuff with the analysis level is the same for most of the other French-speaking LoLers I know of.) Well I'm certainly the only one there to know about Asian teams :p They said multiple times they thought iG was the weakest team in the tournament xD So yeah I'm casting with them, I get on when they're too tired to continue or just want to take a break. I casted the second game of TPA vs Najin yesterday, but I don't really like 3-men casting so it was pretty awkward... I'll be on once again this evening, I think I'll do one or two games. And I bring the analysis to the table :p
He was talking less about the rankings, and more about the slang used to refer to asian players. Drop a post here before you start casting and I'll hop on the stream. Esp. if I can dodge Rivington that way. 
Also, looking at the bans/picks stats, I find it interesting that Graves, Corki and Ezreal are <= 50% in winning.
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On October 06 2012 22:19 czylu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 22:08 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 18:34 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 16:49 1ntrigue wrote:On October 06 2012 16:13 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 12:26 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 12:03 1ntrigue wrote:On October 06 2012 11:08 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win. NA and China both look to be at the lower end of the LoL competitive spectrum. For NA, I think I have a decent grasp on what's the issue because it's an issue that affects all games NA players play. For China I have no idea except that their best MOBA players aren't in LoL. What the hell? You're underrating China massively in LoL. China is definitely not as dominant in LoL as they are in DotA (probably because of the casual gamer culture around LoL in China compared to Korea and Chinese DotA) but they are way above NA. China is definitely above NA and is likely above EU in LoL overall. M5 and CLG.eu are extremely, extremely good EU teams - statistical outliers perhaps. Anyway, I personally count Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as being part of the Chinese scene in the same way that NA (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ), EU, SEA all lumps several culturally similar countries together. Each of the current top Chinese teams have problems with their playstyle though. WE lacks a cohesive game plan and probably needs a jungle shotcaller, but has arguably the two best carry players in the world and the best teamfight execution in the world. iG has always been kinda funky and lacking a bread and butter playstyle, but they are extremely versatile. TPA has the smartest pro jungler and probably the best jungler in the world but lacks a professional practice regimen. All of the Chinese teams lack the fully professional environment that the Korean teams have. Currently, Frost and Blaze play like machines and their preparation is BW-esque, and no team outside Korea can compete with that in an extended series. Don't mind him, he's the same guy who posted at length before the DotA International that the EU/NA scene is equal to strength to the Chinese one and stands by that in his clouded delusions The Chinese scene is quite unstable and does have the problem of having most of its talent needing to filter down from the DotA scene as well as the only 2 good teams (WE and iG) to periodically shuffle due to poor immediate results, resulting in the 2 teams dominating the scene while not always being amazing themselves. However at the moment the gap between the Chinese and Korean Scene is not very big, the Chinese are perhaps flashier and often stronger in lane and the early game but sometimes lack the consistency of the very best teams in the world. They go back and forth with the koreans in online events are sometimes show flashes of brilliance, in a lot of ways their play is quite akin to the SEA scene in DotA (high individual skill, mediocre team coordination, prone to throw) M5 seems to play a completely different game to everybody else that I hesitate to even associate them with the European scene, (perhaps due to their relative isolation) they approach the game differently and simply "picks imba champions". Their individual skill is top notch but not superlative (shown by the games vs iG today and various European teams earlier) but their understanding of the game seems rather next level to me. The team comp in Game one vs iG, for example, was quite beautiful and elegant once analyzed. So what you're saying is, there are two Chinese teams way above the rest of the Chinese teams, and one of them just lost 0-2 to M5, while the other from what I see lost to a bunch of mid-tier NA teams in the IPL Face Offs... That makes me wrong how? You hesitate to label M5 an European team when in practice their position - alongside CLG.eu - within Europe is no different from what you described for WE and IG to be relative to other Chinese teams. Is it that hard to accept that the top teams in Europe are the top teams in Europe and aren't just 'outliers' that don't matter to the rest of the scene? These sorts of games never have a dozen tier 1 teams playing at the same level - there's always 1-2 teams in each scene that stand above the rest and when push comes to shove they're going to be the ones each region counts on to take home the trophy. I'm man enough to say that NA sucks when our teams lose, but it feels that you're just setting up for what you worry is going to be a M5 victory with the whole 'I hesitate to even associate them with the European scene' line, even though in the case that Azubu Frost / WE / TPA won I believe you have no issue with declaring Asians own white dudes. I don't know if you're actually trying to troll or you really believe what you write, but I actually remember you being the guy who said that LoL wasn't that big in China compared to DotA, so I'm going to take whatever you say with a massive chunk of salt. You admitted that you don't follow LoL that closely so maybe you actually should be more acquainted with the scenes before you make blanket statements like "China is terrible at LoL" or "China is on equal level with NA in LoL". On one hand, WE definitely played like shit in the IPL Face Offs and the recent OGN, while iG and TPA has played terribly in every OGN online invitational in the last couple months, so you may actually be right. On the other hand, it's stupid and obnoxious to make such a blanket statement before WE has even played a match at the World Championships, and when TPA is still going strong. In any case, iG beat CLG.na and SK (i.e. China > NA and China>EU by your logic) before losing to M5. If a rational thinker were to make such a blanket statement, he or she must surely have to wait until all the Chinese teams have been eliminated (whereas, one can already conclude NA is below the rest since all three NA teams were beaten convincingly). I call M5 and CLG.eu outliers because they are far, far above the rest of EU. If you follow the LoL scene, you could pretty much rank NA/EU like this: M5 >= CLG.eu > TSM> rest of NA > rest of EU. The world ranking would be something like this: Frost = Blaze >= M5 >= CLG.eu >= TPA >= WE >= Korea = TSM (> rest of China IMO) > rest of NA > rest of EU So, logically do you take M5 and CLG.eu as your EU basis of comparison or a balance with the rest of EU? LoL wasn't that big in China compared to Dota last I checked. I don't know how it measures up now, but there were 10 million active Dota players in China when I said it. Besides that, you're correct that it's too early to say that China <= NA but I never made that statement. I just said that NA and China were at the lower end of the competitive spectrum from the other regions - ie Europe and Korea. As for your ranking, is this a LoL thing? To put teams within a region outside of that region? It bothers me so much when people keep putting up that number as fact without questioning it at all. In any event, comparing regions is very difficult, but there are clear favorites (Korea/M5/CLG/TPA etc.) There are teams that are an entirely different level when compared to others. But I think it isn't a smart idea to use that fact to compare regions. It's 10 million chinese. That's nothing in a country with 1.4 billion people. That would be the equivalent of having 3-4~ million americans play LOL, which is not all that unreasonable.
A lot more people in the US have computers and internet connections so it´s slightly different.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2012 01:11 Hakanfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 22:19 czylu wrote:On October 06 2012 22:08 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 06 2012 18:34 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 16:49 1ntrigue wrote:On October 06 2012 16:13 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 12:26 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 12:03 1ntrigue wrote:On October 06 2012 11:08 Azarkon wrote:On October 06 2012 11:07 kainzero wrote:
well this sucks. i wanted NA to get a win. NA and China both look to be at the lower end of the LoL competitive spectrum. For NA, I think I have a decent grasp on what's the issue because it's an issue that affects all games NA players play. For China I have no idea except that their best MOBA players aren't in LoL. What the hell? You're underrating China massively in LoL. China is definitely not as dominant in LoL as they are in DotA (probably because of the casual gamer culture around LoL in China compared to Korea and Chinese DotA) but they are way above NA. China is definitely above NA and is likely above EU in LoL overall. M5 and CLG.eu are extremely, extremely good EU teams - statistical outliers perhaps. Anyway, I personally count Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau as being part of the Chinese scene in the same way that NA (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ), EU, SEA all lumps several culturally similar countries together. Each of the current top Chinese teams have problems with their playstyle though. WE lacks a cohesive game plan and probably needs a jungle shotcaller, but has arguably the two best carry players in the world and the best teamfight execution in the world. iG has always been kinda funky and lacking a bread and butter playstyle, but they are extremely versatile. TPA has the smartest pro jungler and probably the best jungler in the world but lacks a professional practice regimen. All of the Chinese teams lack the fully professional environment that the Korean teams have. Currently, Frost and Blaze play like machines and their preparation is BW-esque, and no team outside Korea can compete with that in an extended series. Don't mind him, he's the same guy who posted at length before the DotA International that the EU/NA scene is equal to strength to the Chinese one and stands by that in his clouded delusions The Chinese scene is quite unstable and does have the problem of having most of its talent needing to filter down from the DotA scene as well as the only 2 good teams (WE and iG) to periodically shuffle due to poor immediate results, resulting in the 2 teams dominating the scene while not always being amazing themselves. However at the moment the gap between the Chinese and Korean Scene is not very big, the Chinese are perhaps flashier and often stronger in lane and the early game but sometimes lack the consistency of the very best teams in the world. They go back and forth with the koreans in online events are sometimes show flashes of brilliance, in a lot of ways their play is quite akin to the SEA scene in DotA (high individual skill, mediocre team coordination, prone to throw) M5 seems to play a completely different game to everybody else that I hesitate to even associate them with the European scene, (perhaps due to their relative isolation) they approach the game differently and simply "picks imba champions". Their individual skill is top notch but not superlative (shown by the games vs iG today and various European teams earlier) but their understanding of the game seems rather next level to me. The team comp in Game one vs iG, for example, was quite beautiful and elegant once analyzed. So what you're saying is, there are two Chinese teams way above the rest of the Chinese teams, and one of them just lost 0-2 to M5, while the other from what I see lost to a bunch of mid-tier NA teams in the IPL Face Offs... That makes me wrong how? You hesitate to label M5 an European team when in practice their position - alongside CLG.eu - within Europe is no different from what you described for WE and IG to be relative to other Chinese teams. Is it that hard to accept that the top teams in Europe are the top teams in Europe and aren't just 'outliers' that don't matter to the rest of the scene? These sorts of games never have a dozen tier 1 teams playing at the same level - there's always 1-2 teams in each scene that stand above the rest and when push comes to shove they're going to be the ones each region counts on to take home the trophy. I'm man enough to say that NA sucks when our teams lose, but it feels that you're just setting up for what you worry is going to be a M5 victory with the whole 'I hesitate to even associate them with the European scene' line, even though in the case that Azubu Frost / WE / TPA won I believe you have no issue with declaring Asians own white dudes. I don't know if you're actually trying to troll or you really believe what you write, but I actually remember you being the guy who said that LoL wasn't that big in China compared to DotA, so I'm going to take whatever you say with a massive chunk of salt. You admitted that you don't follow LoL that closely so maybe you actually should be more acquainted with the scenes before you make blanket statements like "China is terrible at LoL" or "China is on equal level with NA in LoL". On one hand, WE definitely played like shit in the IPL Face Offs and the recent OGN, while iG and TPA has played terribly in every OGN online invitational in the last couple months, so you may actually be right. On the other hand, it's stupid and obnoxious to make such a blanket statement before WE has even played a match at the World Championships, and when TPA is still going strong. In any case, iG beat CLG.na and SK (i.e. China > NA and China>EU by your logic) before losing to M5. If a rational thinker were to make such a blanket statement, he or she must surely have to wait until all the Chinese teams have been eliminated (whereas, one can already conclude NA is below the rest since all three NA teams were beaten convincingly). I call M5 and CLG.eu outliers because they are far, far above the rest of EU. If you follow the LoL scene, you could pretty much rank NA/EU like this: M5 >= CLG.eu > TSM> rest of NA > rest of EU. The world ranking would be something like this: Frost = Blaze >= M5 >= CLG.eu >= TPA >= WE >= Korea = TSM (> rest of China IMO) > rest of NA > rest of EU So, logically do you take M5 and CLG.eu as your EU basis of comparison or a balance with the rest of EU? LoL wasn't that big in China compared to Dota last I checked. I don't know how it measures up now, but there were 10 million active Dota players in China when I said it. Besides that, you're correct that it's too early to say that China <= NA but I never made that statement. I just said that NA and China were at the lower end of the competitive spectrum from the other regions - ie Europe and Korea. As for your ranking, is this a LoL thing? To put teams within a region outside of that region? It bothers me so much when people keep putting up that number as fact without questioning it at all. In any event, comparing regions is very difficult, but there are clear favorites (Korea/M5/CLG/TPA etc.) There are teams that are an entirely different level when compared to others. But I think it isn't a smart idea to use that fact to compare regions. It's 10 million chinese. That's nothing in a country with 1.4 billion people. That would be the equivalent of having 3-4~ million americans play LOL, which is not all that unreasonable. A lot more people in the US have computers and internet connections so it´s slightly different.
US gaming communities also aren't nearly as centered around LAN cafes as in Asia--which allows for a larger gaming population without necessarily having home PCs/internet connections.
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WE newest players are Support and Jungle. Chinese junglers have never really impressed me. However, WE's carries are fk terror. (Have I mentioned I adore Misaya? He's cute too.) Anyway, CLG.eu underperformed in OGN. Not sure whether it was choke or just OSL foreigner curse, but getting reverse swept like that Flash v Effort style is just not ok. WE probably also have a higher drive to win this compared to the pressure on CLG.eu.
I'm going to give the edge to WE here simply because of that. If CLG want to win this, it's going to be up to Snoopeh to wreck top lane and get Wickd to control the tempo and stifle ClearLove I think.
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I think WE has a good shot taking down EU but they're going to have to break down EU's Wall of Helms Deep because those guys don't give up
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Imo CLG.eu is going to make it look like child's play :p
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United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2012 01:25 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think WE has a good shot taking down EU but they're going to have to break down EU's Wall of Helms Deep because those guys don't give up
WE fortunately isn't like iG where they'll throw a massive lead like that. Given that they're comfortable falling back on Weixiao's ability to play lategame, they'll take it slow if they need to in order to win the game.
Unfortunately for us, this also leaves the possibility of very long, slow, games as both sides could be very cautious about ending the game.
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On October 07 2012 00:54 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 00:48 RouaF wrote:
Why are we still talking of TSM? They lost that's it. Who do you think will take CLG.eu vs WE ? WE has 3 new players correct? Anyone have some recent vods with their new lineup?
2 players and WE stomped iG twice last week, 3-0 and 2-0. I would expect CLG.eu to have better teamfight coordination while WE should want to make things happen early game. Looking forward to Misaya vs Froggen in mid.
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Oh ffs, just noticed the time of the final, why would they schedule the final for a time they've been finishing their broadcasts the last two days? Oh well I suppose the fireworks and lightshow will look better, screw the EU viewers.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2012 01:49 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 00:54 nojitosunrise wrote:On October 07 2012 00:48 RouaF wrote:
Why are we still talking of TSM? They lost that's it. Who do you think will take CLG.eu vs WE ? WE has 3 new players correct? Anyone have some recent vods with their new lineup? 2 players and WE stomped iG twice last week, 3-0 and 2-0. I would expect CLG.eu to have better teamfight coordination while WE should want to make things happen early game. Looking forward to Misaya vs Froggen in mid.
I would argue that if the game draws out it should still be ok for WE. CLG.EU has better teamfight coordination, but I'd say one of the awkward points of their playstyle is how their farm distribution vastly favors Froggen and Wickd over Yellowpete. This is largely ok for midgame fights and CLG.EU generally end up ahead enough through those fights that Yellowpete is still more farmed than the enemy AD. But when you're against an AD as safe, reliable, and consistent as Weixiao is, having your AD a couple hundred CS behind because your AP tends to be overfarmed is a potential liability.
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I really really dislike playing LoL now, quit for good around the time Ezrael was released.
But man the matches so far were super fun to watch, I've noticed that some of the asian teams really play agressive and gank a lot. It's really refreshing to see.
Hoping for more great games, even though I barely know any of the players ;;
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EPT
