EPTOn October 06 2012 02:42 Gutrot wrote:
You mean the game isn't be shown to the crowd on a delay?
You mean the game isn't be shown to the crowd on a delay?
I thought everyone is on a 3 min delay except the player cams.
[S2] World Championships Discussion - Page 226
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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance. Fair warning to all. | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
I thought everyone is on a 3 min delay except the player cams. | ||
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KarlKaliente
United States434 Posts
On October 06 2012 02:51 nosliw wrote: I thought everyone is on a 3 min delay except the player cams. a 3 minute delay is less than ideal but I'd hope they recognize the integrity of the competition is more important than catching a players reaction or seeing a team celebrate before the game ends | ||
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Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
On October 06 2012 02:11 wussleeQ wrote: I just realized. Isn't it really easy to earhack? Was watching the vod and there's a lot of parts where the crowd goes crazy when someone goes the wrong way and they switch directions fairly quickly after they hear it. :l Wait, what? Are you really saying 'earhack' instead of 'listen' or 'eavesdrop'? LOL, "man lets move somewhere else, that guy is earhacking our conversation". | ||
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mistax
United States415 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Probably the best medium is a mix of invite and qualifier slots. Valve's split between invites and qualifiers was 14+2, and realistically you could probably do 12+4 or 10+6 and still invite most of the people worth inviting. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:00 Dgiese wrote: Wait, what? Are you really saying 'earhack' instead of 'listen' or 'eavesdrop'? LOL, "man lets move somewhere else, that guy is earhacking our conversation". Guess he thought that sounded more dramatic.:D | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:00 Dgiese wrote: Wait, what? Are you really saying 'earhack' instead of 'listen' or 'eavesdrop'? LOL, "man lets move somewhere else, that guy is earhacking our conversation". the correct term was "ear map" because for whatever reason in BW world, "ear map hack" became "ear map." lolol | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4725 Posts
On October 06 2012 02:40 nojitosunrise wrote: The problem is in the fact that they would need a second stream. So that means they need more casters. Also, they would need to have a double stream for each of the international streams (12 of them!), unless you want to screw a portion of your viewer base by not streaming some games to them. I think most of them would love the oportunity to show their best in more matches. Also it is not that much. We are talking about 4 days, that would be like 2x bo3 a day if they use gsl type of groups, or 2days of 2xbo3 if they would use 5 team normal groups. If You run two stream at the same time it means you can run twice the matches without tiring players too much. As to the stream number, they would do fine with two main english streams. And the comunity specific streams like russian, chinese or whatever need not to be doubled as most of the time they are showing russian/chinese teams playting, and usually its only one the same time. Some sc2/cs tournaments used this setup and it tourned out to work fine. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:06 TheYango wrote: Blaze 100% deserves to be here over SK or Dignitas, CLG.NA probably still worth inviting due to being a huge crowd favorite even though they don't perform that well Popularity of a team should not be relevant at all for participation in this tournament. And thankfully it wasnt. The popular teams already make MUCH more money than the unknown ones, because of streaming, sponsors etc. If you took away the biggest (and in the case of Dota2 almost the only) tournament from the unknown teams, there would not be anything left for them. They could not even get popular because of no participation. We want a competetive scene that is as broad as possible, not a small selection of teams that only competes against each other. For a fan the success of one major tournament should be way less important than the health of the scene overall. | ||
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SuperFanBoy
New Zealand1068 Posts
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
SEA had their own qualifier that included all of the countries in S.East Asia, totaling to 100 teams the spotlight said? And only 2 teams qualified from there too. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:07 kainzero wrote: the correct term was "ear map" because for whatever reason in BW world, "ear map hack" became "ear map." lolol no map. map = dog. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:16 Redox wrote: Popularity of a team should not be relevant at all for participation in this tournament. And thankfully it wasnt. It depends how much you see the tournament as a publicity event. There's certain value in the point of view that a Riot or Valve hosted tournament is largely for publicity (which they are). On October 06 2012 03:16 Redox wrote: The popular teams already make MUCH more money than the unknown ones, because of streaming, sponsors etc. If you took away the biggest (and in the case of Dota2 almost the only) tournament from the unknown teams, there would not be anything left for them. They could not even get popular because of no participation. The success of many mid-level teams in DotA 2 that did not get to go to the International and still have been doing very well and even are starting to pick up sponsors due to this runs directly counter to this. On October 06 2012 03:16 Redox wrote: We want a competetive scene that is as broad as possible, not a small selection of teams that only competes against each other. For a fan the success of one major tournament should be way less important than the health of the scene overall. Then it actually seems that this system of circuit qualification is the wrong way to do it. In order to have a meaningful shot at this prize pool, you have to be able to compete in circuit LAN events. Which in turns means you have to have the ability to GO to LANs, which unsponsored teams have trouble doing with the regularity required to earn enough points to qualify. Arguably that places more importance on these finals than TI2 ever did, because TI2 is largely independent of every other event. While on the other hand, this system places huge importance on being able to attend circuit LANs, and essentially turns non-circuit events into second-class tournaments. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On October 06 2012 02:17 MooMooMugi wrote: Snoopeh actually guess-translated what Wickd quite well according to that top YT comment Yea, it was really close to what was actually being said - Wickd probably gave a quick summary about what he was gonna say before the interview. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
also Happy Birthday Yellowpete, too bad he's playnig tomorrow^^ | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:06 TheYango wrote: On the issue of qualification vs. invitation for the tournament that someone brought up a few pages, I'm sort of torn 50:50 on this. On the one hand, qualification is more "fair", but on the other hand, invitation allows you to produce a better tournament with more crowd popularity/hype by ensuring that you bring teams that deserve to be there. This is especially true given the region skew that having invites allows you to account for--TI2 had 4 invites + 1 qualified team from China, and all told I don't think it would be too far off to say that a similar number of teams from Korea actually deserve to be here over some of their NA/EU counterparts (Blaze 100% deserves to be here over SK or Dignitas, CLG.NA probably still worth inviting due to being a huge crowd favorite even though they don't perform that well). Probably the best medium is a mix of invite and qualifier slots. Valve's split between invites and qualifiers was 14+2, and realistically you could probably do 12+4 or 10+6 and still invite most of the people worth inviting. I think that that Valve's decision for mass invites was either very smart, or somewhat lucky, but ultimately it was 100% the right decision to make. It's quite easy to cry fowl at the idea of mass invites from a theoretical perspective, but the final outcome showed that nearly all the invites were worth it. People cried that mouz wasn't originally invited, but when they finally got in, they got stomped. Though M5 and Darer got stomped, who would you take over them? An unstable Quantic? An unsponsored PB? Someone like Mineski who would have definitely been crushed? Meanwhile, handing out 5 invites to the chinese proved to be the best decision in terms of game quality. Overall, in light of the circumstances (Chinese teams not well broad-casted in Dota 2), I think Valve absolutely made the correct decision for TI2 in doing invites, because they knew which teams deserved to be there despite the general public not quite knowing / having fan bias. In the future I think having only 2-4 teams seeded and the rest qualified would be better, but in terms of TI2, I think they did it right. Similarly, I think that Riot was either very smart or slightly lucky, but because the fan favorites of each region also are generally considered the skilled favorites, their decision was more appropriate. Their pure qualification system could have resulted in a fan favorite like CLG dropping to lesser names like MMe or Orb, but everything worked out in the end due to the relative stability of play expected from fan favorites. With the exception of Azubu Blaze not making it, nearly every major team, either by skill or popularity, made it to the world championships. Therefore, I don't think it is really fair to say one system or the other was better in terms of execution. In theory, I would say that Riot's method is more fair, but in terms of a strong tournament, both were appropriate for their different circumstance. Moving forward, more qualifications is undoubtedly more fair, but depending on the colour of the scene, a sprinkling of invites, as long as they are well intentioned, can only result in a stronger tournament. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:43 EchelonTee wrote: I think that that Valve's decision for mass invites was either very smart, or somewhat lucky, but ultimately it was 100% the right decision to make. It's quite easy to cry fowl at the idea of mass invites from a theoretical perspective, but the final outcome showed that nearly all the invites were worth it. People cried that mouz wasn't originally invited, but when they finally got in, they got stomped. Though M5 and Darer got stomped, who would you take over them? An unstable Quantic? An unsponsored PB? Someone like Mineski who would have definitely been crushed? Meanwhile, handing out 5 invites to the chinese proved to be the best decision in terms of game quality. Overall, in light of the circumstances (Chinese teams not well broad-casted in Dota 2), I think Valve absolutely made the correct decision for TI2 in doing invites, because they knew which teams deserved to be there despite the general public not quite knowing / having fan bias. In the future I think having only 2-4 teams seeded and the rest qualified would be better, but in terms of TI2, I think they did it right. Similarly, I think that Riot was either very smart or slightly lucky, but because the fan favorites of each region also are generally considered the skilled favorites, their decision was more appropriate. Their pure qualification system could have resulted in a fan favorite like CLG dropping to lesser names like MMe or Orb, but everything worked out in the end due to the relative stability of play expected from fan favorites. With the exception of Azubu Blaze not making it, nearly every major team, either by skill or popularity, made it to the world championships. Therefore, I don't think it is really fair to say one system or the other was better in terms of execution. In theory, I would say that Riot's method is more fair, but in terms of a strong tournament, both were appropriate for their different circumstance. Moving forward, more qualifications is undoubtedly more fair, but depending on the colour of the scene, a sprinkling of invites, as long as they are well intentioned, can only result in a stronger tournament. Talking about Valve and invites, I got my DotA 2 invite 1 day before LoL S2 finals. Coincidence? I think not  | ||
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qtiehunter
1088 Posts
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Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:35 AsnSensation wrote: if M5 wins Im happy because europe represent and our russian overlords give us hope in western League, if iG wins, one of the teams i bet money on is still in. Rooting for either M5 or clg.eu to win from a fans point of view, but I wouldnt mind Sword winning either so I can turn my 20€ investment into a 600€ profit :D also Happy Birthday Yellowpete, too bad he's playnig tomorrow^^ I still cant believe the odds were like 23:1 for some of the asian teams and 34:1 for the others... | ||
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