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[S2] World Championships Discussion - Page 225

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.

Fair warning to all.
Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
October 05 2012 17:07 GMT
#4481
On October 06 2012 02:01 nojitosunrise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 01:54 Schwopzi wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:37 Numy wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:23 NeoIllusions wrote:
First, thanks Yango and Kupon3ss for all your feedback, especially the compare and contrast between Worlds and TI2. I'll be talking to Riot next week and after Worlds about what they did right and where they fell short on. Having not watch TI2, you comments have and will be very helpful.

Second, Roffles isn't ban immune so please don't jab at him Shake. Roffles is flamboyant at times and could tone down the cursing but he doesn't bullshit. I'm the biggest Chauster fan but if he did say all those excuses, I cringe a bit. I admit that being humorous, even at the cost of my own favorites, does grant a little leniency but I've never noticed roffles crossing the line.

Lastly, hope everyone is enjoying the games. I appreciate the dota2 talk a few pages ago with zero flames. TL LoL es #1


I think the biggest thing I've noticed is that casters having to fill time instead of another panel. It just drains your casting team and doesn't really fill time as well as another desk can do. Every event should be doing this ;(. That and how there was so little downtime between games because of how freaking fast they changed the players booths. Man that was impressive.


Ye, one thing sc2 tournaments have been doing (since a dreamhack i believe) is using a couch with game-experts to analyze & review a game. It's similar in soccer where a commentator does the commentary during a match but a different group of people do halftime analysis & post-game analysis.
This also takes a lot of weight off the casters during the match because there is no need to analyze stuff like item buys in the heat of a game (where casters will be prone to making mistakes); this can be done later and well thought through.


This would be amazing in LoL...but unfortunately, I can't think of a group of 3-5 people who can do that.
Maybe the IGN guys? League of Legends is very stretched in terms of "game-experts." The game is simply too young to expect so much in my opinion.

May god have mercy on us all.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 05 2012 17:08 GMT
#4482
Oh man, that wickd, snoopeh, and maknoon vid. fucking hilarious. lol, snoopeh is faking the translation was hilarious.
liftlift > tsm
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-05 17:14:13
October 05 2012 17:09 GMT
#4483
On October 06 2012 02:07 Dgiese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 02:01 nojitosunrise wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:54 Schwopzi wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:37 Numy wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:23 NeoIllusions wrote:
First, thanks Yango and Kupon3ss for all your feedback, especially the compare and contrast between Worlds and TI2. I'll be talking to Riot next week and after Worlds about what they did right and where they fell short on. Having not watch TI2, you comments have and will be very helpful.

Second, Roffles isn't ban immune so please don't jab at him Shake. Roffles is flamboyant at times and could tone down the cursing but he doesn't bullshit. I'm the biggest Chauster fan but if he did say all those excuses, I cringe a bit. I admit that being humorous, even at the cost of my own favorites, does grant a little leniency but I've never noticed roffles crossing the line.

Lastly, hope everyone is enjoying the games. I appreciate the dota2 talk a few pages ago with zero flames. TL LoL es #1


I think the biggest thing I've noticed is that casters having to fill time instead of another panel. It just drains your casting team and doesn't really fill time as well as another desk can do. Every event should be doing this ;(. That and how there was so little downtime between games because of how freaking fast they changed the players booths. Man that was impressive.


Ye, one thing sc2 tournaments have been doing (since a dreamhack i believe) is using a couch with game-experts to analyze & review a game. It's similar in soccer where a commentator does the commentary during a match but a different group of people do halftime analysis & post-game analysis.
This also takes a lot of weight off the casters during the match because there is no need to analyze stuff like item buys in the heat of a game (where casters will be prone to making mistakes); this can be done later and well thought through.


This would be amazing in LoL...but unfortunately, I can't think of a group of 3-5 people who can do that.
Maybe the IGN guys? League of Legends is very stretched in terms of "game-experts." The game is simply too young to expect so much in my opinion.

May god have mercy on us all.

Why you hatin on Nick Allen, Red Baron, and HatPerson? Hue
God Bless
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
October 05 2012 17:10 GMT
#4484
On October 06 2012 02:07 Dgiese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 02:01 nojitosunrise wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:54 Schwopzi wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:37 Numy wrote:
On October 06 2012 01:23 NeoIllusions wrote:
First, thanks Yango and Kupon3ss for all your feedback, especially the compare and contrast between Worlds and TI2. I'll be talking to Riot next week and after Worlds about what they did right and where they fell short on. Having not watch TI2, you comments have and will be very helpful.

Second, Roffles isn't ban immune so please don't jab at him Shake. Roffles is flamboyant at times and could tone down the cursing but he doesn't bullshit. I'm the biggest Chauster fan but if he did say all those excuses, I cringe a bit. I admit that being humorous, even at the cost of my own favorites, does grant a little leniency but I've never noticed roffles crossing the line.

Lastly, hope everyone is enjoying the games. I appreciate the dota2 talk a few pages ago with zero flames. TL LoL es #1


I think the biggest thing I've noticed is that casters having to fill time instead of another panel. It just drains your casting team and doesn't really fill time as well as another desk can do. Every event should be doing this ;(. That and how there was so little downtime between games because of how freaking fast they changed the players booths. Man that was impressive.


Ye, one thing sc2 tournaments have been doing (since a dreamhack i believe) is using a couch with game-experts to analyze & review a game. It's similar in soccer where a commentator does the commentary during a match but a different group of people do halftime analysis & post-game analysis.
This also takes a lot of weight off the casters during the match because there is no need to analyze stuff like item buys in the heat of a game (where casters will be prone to making mistakes); this can be done later and well thought through.


This would be amazing in LoL...but unfortunately, I can't think of a group of 3-5 people who can do that.
Maybe the IGN guys? League of Legends is very stretched in terms of "game-experts." The game is simply too young to expect so much in my opinion.

May god have mercy on us all.


They have pretty good personalities and awesome passion for the game. As soon as they educate themselves a little bit more (i think baron is a plat/diamond player now?), I think they will be awesome.
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
October 05 2012 17:11 GMT
#4485
I just realized. Isn't it really easy to earhack? Was watching the vod and there's a lot of parts where the crowd goes crazy when someone goes the wrong way and they switch directions fairly quickly after they hear it. :l
BW -> League -> CSGO
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 05 2012 17:12 GMT
#4486
On October 06 2012 02:11 wussleeQ wrote:
I just realized. Isn't it really easy to earhack? Was watching the vod and there's a lot of parts where the crowd goes crazy when someone goes the wrong way and they switch directions fairly quickly after they hear it. :l


According to CLGNA (?), it was very easy to hear the crowd during the regionals.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
October 05 2012 17:13 GMT
#4487
you "could" just get one of the eliminated teams to do it, I think Chauster + Ocelot would be a great analysis duo
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 05 2012 17:15 GMT
#4488
On October 06 2012 02:13 Kupon3ss wrote:
you "could" just get one of the eliminated teams to do it, I think Chauster + Ocelot would be a great analysis duo

Didn't doublelift commentate an OGN game, to great success?
liftlift > tsm
spellsy
Profile Joined October 2011
United States418 Posts
October 05 2012 17:15 GMT
#4489
i think the ign guys are prob best or closest to best for analyzing the game or w/e, but still they are casters at heart imo.

theres a lot of exciting plays that happen that just get breezed over

ALSO, THE iG / frost match was TOO CRAZY
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
October 05 2012 17:17 GMT
#4490
Snoopeh actually guess-translated what Wickd quite well according to that top YT comment
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
spellsy
Profile Joined October 2011
United States418 Posts
October 05 2012 17:18 GMT
#4491
actually the thing that annoys me most about the analyzing / strategy presentation the casters are doing in this tournament is that its like... so outdated . all they would talk about for dig was like all 8 months ago, as if there werent online tourneys or recent performances and stuff..

similar with clg.na, at least what stuck out to me O.o i didnt get to watch all the games
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
October 05 2012 17:23 GMT
#4492
On October 06 2012 02:01 nojitosunrise wrote:
This would be amazing in LoL...but unfortunately, I can't think of a group of 3-5 people who can do that.
Maybe the IGN guys? League of Legends is very stretched in terms of "game-experts." The game is simply too young to expect so much in my opinion.

I don't think you need high level analysis just to talk about a game that just went on. You just need to not give bad or dumb analysis, which apparently is a huge problem in LoL.

Just watch any sports highlight reels, like on SportsCenter, and you'll see that the anchors don't really say anything high level. I'm pretty sure you can get 3-5 people here on this thread that could do it.

wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 05 2012 17:25 GMT
#4493
Kobe24, Scarra, Wingsofdeathx, Chauster, would be a pretty good post-game analysis group.
liftlift > tsm
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
October 05 2012 17:26 GMT
#4494
On October 06 2012 01:37 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 01:23 NeoIllusions wrote:
First, thanks Yango and Kupon3ss for all your feedback, especially the compare and contrast between Worlds and TI2. I'll be talking to Riot next week and after Worlds about what they did right and where they fell short on. Having not watch TI2, you comments have and will be very helpful.

Second, Roffles isn't ban immune so please don't jab at him Shake. Roffles is flamboyant at times and could tone down the cursing but he doesn't bullshit. I'm the biggest Chauster fan but if he did say all those excuses, I cringe a bit. I admit that being humorous, even at the cost of my own favorites, does grant a little leniency but I've never noticed roffles crossing the line.

Lastly, hope everyone is enjoying the games. I appreciate the dota2 talk a few pages ago with zero flames. TL LoL es #1


I think the biggest thing I've noticed is that casters having to fill time instead of another panel. It just drains your casting team and doesn't really fill time as well as another desk can do. Every event should be doing this ;(. That and how there was so little downtime between games because of how freaking fast they changed the players booths. Man that was impressive.


I'm a bit late to the comparison party but here are some of my thoughts. I agree with a lot of what has been said already about production and casters an Riot definitely has a lot to work on compared to TI2. But Riot has done some stuff better, especially for the players and the live audience.

Players - they know when they are playing and when they need to get to the venue. Group A and B games are separated so we don't have teams sitting around for the entire day waiting to finish up their last game. The most any team will have to wait around would be ~6 hours (2 x bo3 for Days 2/3) unless Riot made the Group B teams show their face at 9am during Day 1. I remember one of the issues DK said they had was that they had to wait around for 9 hours in Benaroya Hall until it was game time against Na'Vi.

Audience - Again I had issues with TI2's schedule for Day 1. Valve was way too ambitious trying to play a potential of 16 games in 1 day with downtime in between (they ended up playing 15 games). It was good for the stream viewers who could watch for 16 hours in the comfort of their homes but it was brutal for anyone who wanted to watch all the games live. It's probably also why Riot chose to put the last quarterfinals onto Day 3 - there will at most be 9 games/day for bracket play.


That being said, I think Riot can improve the feeling of downtime during b/p by talking about other stuff until all the bans are already done. They did this for TI2 and the transition was pretty smooth. The casters can fill up time waiting for the teams to pick their next champs by talking about the bans and what they mean. It's probably a bit harder for Riot's setup since they don't have a separate panel to give the casters more time to think of what to say.

There is also a lack of preparation for somewhat expected things like glare on the computer screen or the mic picking up wind. Those are things you know can happen when you pick an outdoor venue so hopefully it won't happen for the next 2 days.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4769 Posts
October 05 2012 17:36 GMT
#4495
Well my bigest complaint is tournament structure. I would prefere more matches and more fair structre. Something that really allows the teams to show their best play, give them the oportunity. 3xBo1 seems not sufficient (and in some cases that might be 1bo3really?

I know more games mean more stream time, but if thats a problem the solution is two or even more streams. Sc2 tournaments manage two or even more streams at once, cant see why big comapny like riot cant do the same.
Pathetic Greta hater.
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
October 05 2012 17:40 GMT
#4496
On October 06 2012 02:36 Silvanel wrote:
Well my bigest complaint is tournament structure. I would prefere more matches and more fair structre. Something that really allows the teams to show their best play, give them the oportunity. 3xBo1 seems not sufficient (and in some cases that might be 1bo3really?

I know more games mean more stream time, but if thats a problem the solution is two or even more streams. Sc2 tournaments manage two or even more streams at once, cant see why big comapny like riot cant do the same.


The problem is in the fact that they would need a second stream. So that means they need more casters. Also, they would need to have a double stream for each of the international streams (12 of them!), unless you want to screw a portion of your viewer base by not streaming some games to them.
Gutrot
Profile Joined August 2010
122 Posts
October 05 2012 17:42 GMT
#4497
On October 06 2012 02:12 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 02:11 wussleeQ wrote:
I just realized. Isn't it really easy to earhack? Was watching the vod and there's a lot of parts where the crowd goes crazy when someone goes the wrong way and they switch directions fairly quickly after they hear it. :l


According to CLGNA (?), it was very easy to hear the crowd during the regionals.


You mean the game isn't be shown to the crowd on a delay?
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
October 05 2012 17:44 GMT
#4498
On October 06 2012 02:15 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 02:13 Kupon3ss wrote:
you "could" just get one of the eliminated teams to do it, I think Chauster + Ocelot would be a great analysis duo

Didn't doublelift commentate an OGN game, to great success?


Yeah, he was actually really informative and didn't overstep the other commentators.
Remember Violet.
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
October 05 2012 17:45 GMT
#4499
On October 06 2012 02:36 Silvanel wrote:
Well my bigest complaint is tournament structure. I would prefere more matches and more fair structre. Something that really allows the teams to show their best play, give them the oportunity. 3xBo1 seems not sufficient (and in some cases that might be 1bo3really?

I know more games mean more stream time, but if thats a problem the solution is two or even more streams. Sc2 tournaments manage two or even more streams at once, cant see why big comapny like riot cant do the same.


that many games is not only taxing on the production, but also the players...
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
October 05 2012 17:50 GMT
#4500
On October 06 2012 02:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2012 02:15 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2012 02:13 Kupon3ss wrote:
you "could" just get one of the eliminated teams to do it, I think Chauster + Ocelot would be a great analysis duo

Didn't doublelift commentate an OGN game, to great success?


Yeah, he was actually really informative and didn't overstep the other commentators.


I liked Locodoco co-casting more but yes, having a player co-cast would be awesome.
Won't happen though :-(
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