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On May 08 2015 05:10 Harem wrote:
Should add a section on flash ghost (with distortion) So good on immobile mids as shown by Korea i.e. Dade and Lux is no exception.
I have been doing my own testing on this. The reason I have been skeptical is two fold. First, Lux has a MUCH later power spike than most other immobile mages. IMO Lux has her first big spike at around 7K gold between 20-25 mins depending on how the game has gone. Lux has mediocre base damages/scaling and absolutely requires a CDR/mana item (130 mana/10 sec CD on E RIP) which are also two things not common to popular immobile picks. What this all means is that getting distortion enchant early is not really an option.
Second, not having a defensive summoner such as heal against Talon/Zed/LB is basically suicide in my experience and since heal has a speed boost built in it is usually stronger in lane anyhow.
What turned me around on it is that I basically stopped playing Lux into assassins and I gotta say ghost Lux into a mage matchup is pretty good, possibly better than heal. The option to run down river as an escape even against speed boosted junglers is strong enough that it may be worth it even if you are only buying distortion late game for enhanced effects.
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Is it basically pointless to play lux if you can't cs with autos well?
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On May 11 2015 16:11 gobbledydook wrote:
Is it basically pointless to play lux if you can't cs with autos well?
Yes. This is basically the least fun and thus biggest barrier of entry for new Lux players.
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One nice thing about Luden's is being able to clear caster minions with E. Worst feeling is not being able to kill the caster minions with E + passive and needing to auto them again. Fortunately that only happens in the first few levels depending on your runes or if you manage to get behind in levels. With that said, I feel like Lux being given more efficient wave clear would break her.
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On May 11 2015 20:58 ConanTroutman wrote:
One nice thing about Luden's is being able to clear caster minions with E. Worst feeling is not being able to kill the caster minions with E + passive and needing to auto them again. Fortunately that only happens in the first few levels depending on your runes or if you manage to get behind in levels. With that said, I feel like Lux being given more efficient wave clear would break her.
I do not believe that making level 5 E one shot caster minions would be OP, sentiments like this largely feel like a reaction to her being almost competitive to me. That said, I do not think that just pushing her cooldowns and damage to the levels of a champ they would release today is appropriate. It is probably way better to add some unique utility like they did with Ahri Q when she occupied a similar "almost good" space.
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Lux could one shot casters with E in season 2/3, and at that time she was a top pick/ban in pro games.
Buffing her damage is tricky because so much of it is long range, hard to dodge and essentially zero risk. I would like to see her utility or her mana issues buffed, and I'd like to see xeraths damage Nerfed to be more in line with lux.
Let's be real. What keeps lux out of pro games is the fact that xerath occupies the same character space but does more damage for no justifiable reason.
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On May 12 2015 10:12 Velocirapture wrote:
I do not believe that making level 5 E one shot caster minions would be OP, sentiments like this largely feel like a reaction to her being almost competitive to me.
It might not be "op," but riot have to be careful with giving champions really easy long ranged waveclear. If one mid laner can just afk shove the wave from safety, without even needing bluebuff to do so, the mid lane meta goes to shit.
When the mid meta becomes based around just waveclearing, then the diversity in mid lane gets crushed. Assassins, roamers and a lot of mages who can't efficiently counter that level of shove just have to spend the entire game sitting under tower doing nothing. These days the only champion that can really completely afk shove is w max morg, and she has to give up a lot of her burst/damage to go that skill path, on a champion who's already pretty limited in scope.
If you want to be able to get guaranteed safe freefarm, and shutdown the enemy from roaming/playmaking, you should at least have to go a sub-optimal skillpath, or have itemise differently/be blue dependant to do so. It shouldn't be a given on a champion who can already do plenty of things.
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On May 12 2015 17:06 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 10:12 Velocirapture wrote:
I do not believe that making level 5 E one shot caster minions would be OP, sentiments like this largely feel like a reaction to her being almost competitive to me. It might not be "op," but riot have to be careful with giving champions really easy long ranged waveclear. If one mid laner can just afk shove the wave from safety, without even needing bluebuff to do so, the mid lane meta goes to shit. When the mid meta becomes based around just waveclearing, then the diversity in mid lane gets crushed. Assassins, roamers and a lot of mages who can't efficiently counter that level of shove just have to spend the entire game sitting under tower doing nothing. These days the only champion that can really completely afk shove is w max morg, and she has to give up a lot of her burst/damage to go that skill path, on a champion who's already pretty limited in scope. If you want to be able to get guaranteed safe freefarm, and shutdown the enemy from roaming/playmaking, you should at least have to go a sub-optimal skillpath, or have itemise differently/be blue dependant to do so. It shouldn't be a given on a champion who can already do plenty of things.
I'd agree with this. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the days of Gragas or AP Sion insta-clearing waves and having to cry under tower for the first 15mins of the game.
The biggest gripe people tend to have with Lux is her E since in a lot of ways it is a very dated ability in that it has an absurd mana cost and is a bit on the lowside when it comes to damage/waveclear when you compare it to other champions in similar roles. As far as buffing it goes I think they should keep the damage where it is, a buff to the mana cost would be great though. I'm just afraid if you give Lux anymore damage she'll just end up doing too much too well. We all know once Lux hits 2-3 items she can start 100-0ing squishies meaning she not only has a ton of utility, but can also function as a long range assassin.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Note that Riot's upcoming planned nerf to Morgana looks like it will stop her from insta-clearing minions as well.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On May 12 2015 13:16 Ketara wrote:
Lux could one shot casters with E in season 2/3, and at that time she was a top pick/ban in pro games.
Buffing her damage is tricky because so much of it is long range, hard to dodge and essentially zero risk. I would like to see her utility or her mana issues buffed, and I'd like to see xeraths damage Nerfed to be more in line with lux.
Let's be real. What keeps lux out of pro games is the fact that xerath occupies the same character space but does more damage for no justifiable reason.
She was picked now and then but let's not exaggerate and call her "top pick/ban" lol.
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On May 12 2015 23:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 13:16 Ketara wrote:
Lux could one shot casters with E in season 2/3, and at that time she was a top pick/ban in pro games.
Buffing her damage is tricky because so much of it is long range, hard to dodge and essentially zero risk. I would like to see her utility or her mana issues buffed, and I'd like to see xeraths damage Nerfed to be more in line with lux.
Let's be real. What keeps lux out of pro games is the fact that xerath occupies the same character space but does more damage for no justifiable reason. She was picked now and then but let's not exaggerate and call her "top pick/ban" lol.
Pretty sure in early season 3 she was first pick material. You probably remember better than me though.
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Did some digging around, she was picked semi-frequently through Season 3 in EU/NA but was more or less only a target ban and if picked was almost always picked in the final rotation.
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The lux thread makes me happy. Its like we actually learn things here.
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the 5.12 changes make lux so much more fun to play.
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Riot did give Lux numerous buffs in Season 2. I think she was just never discovered until Season 3. It's kind of like what happened to Annie.
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I guess I will post this here since Lux is my main (diamond 5 for those who care).
I think I have finally figured out how to build mages with the new itemization. My new build is as follows:
Ludens - Deathcap - Morello - Sorc/Void depending on MR - Sorc/Void - Hourglass
With my old build (Ludens - Sorc into CDR/mana item) you used the significant power spike from Ludens to carry you through the power nadir while building Athenes or Morello. With the reduction in AP and ratio that spike, especially in respect to wave clear, only lasts 1-2 minutes in most games which is simply not enough.
Basically with my new build I use Ludens as 100AP boots and rush Deathcap because a large amount of power has been shifted into the item. Since you are building AP constantly with its improved build path you maintain burst and wave clear power. Once you have Deathcap it mitigates the downside of investing in an 80/60 AP item with its amplification so it doesn't feel nearly as bad.
Now for the drawbacks. You don't buy boots until very late, sometimes even 5th item so you are very slow. To put this in perspective Lux gets 45 MS from T2 boots and 33 MS from Ludens and no boots at all. Secondly you postpone your CDR and mana item. The CDR is not missed that much for the first 15-20 mins or so but the mana regen issue needed help so I started running scaling mana regen yellows instead of scaling HP(along with pen reds/scaling CDR blues and AP quints). They exceed flat mana regen yellows at level 7 and give a whopping 11 mana/5 at 18 which makes morellos a less painful buy.
I was very skeptical of this setup at first and honestly I made it out of frustration but I encourage you all to give it a go and see if it feels as strong to you as it does to me.
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Would love to see some math on all that.
Would like to see if ludens deathcap outdamages ludens void on a 2 item timing.
Also some math on how delaying boots affects your damage at different gold values.
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Dcap: (120+100)*1.35- = 297AP
Void: 120+80 = 200AP
A more *fair* comparison would be assuming more or less equal gold, so maybe Void Staff vs. the components of Dcap.
Dcap: 120+20+40+60 = 240
Void: 120+80= 200
Slapping on a MR of 40, you get a reduction to 26 which results in a decrease from 29% to 21% damage reduction. Seems like you're getting a 10%ish increase in damage (71%/79%) which would have to exceed 20% more AP. Throwing in mpen runes changes the math a little. Probably not worth though.
It's also important to remember that once you've 2 item'd Ludens + Void in the second scenario, you've got to build your way back up. Whereas if you're sitting on Luden's + Dcap pieces, it's only a few hundred gold till you power spike.
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I just played an unranked game of Lux the other day. My mmr is complete shit, but the new instant E feels sooo much better at 100 ping. I haven't really played mid lane since the utility master changes with mana regen. So with all the tweaks to AP items I have no idea what's most efficient. While I don't think I can get away without building some form of mana regen early. Is Luden's still the first damage item Lux goes for?
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The proper comparison would probably be ludens + deathcap vs. Ludens + void + sorc shoes. The pricing is similar and void and sorc shoes are synergistic.
As long as the damage is similar, the void build would be a lot better because movespeed. You should put runes and masteries and dorans into your comparison.
I'd be willing to bet that the void build would do more damage. Might math it tonight for you guys.
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EPT
