EPT[Season 5] Lux, the Lady of Luminosity - Page 13
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Ethelis
United States2396 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
We'll look at the stats you get from runes/items at different early game item levels vs. an Athenes build where you had really heavy anti magic runes, HP/level and flat MR. Core Items (Level 6ish?, 1600 gold) + Show Spoiler + Athenes: Dring + Chalice + Amp Tome 35 AP 37 MR 131 HP 7.5 MP5 Armguard: Dring + Dring + Armguard 55 AP 39 Armor 120 HP 9 MP5 First Item Timing (Level 9ish?, 2700 gold) + Show Spoiler + Athenes: Dring + Athenes 75 AP 37 MR 168 HP 14 MP5 20% CDR Armguard: Dring + Dring + Armguard + Forbidden Idol + Amp Tome 90 AP 54 Armor 120 HP 14 MP5 10% CDR Second Item Timing (Level 11ish? 4000g) + Show Spoiler + Athenes: Dring + Athenes + Sorc Shoes 75 AP +15 Mpen 37 MR +45 Movespeed 191 HP 16 MP5 20% CDR Armguard: Dring + Dring + Armguard + Morello 150 AP 54 Armor 120 HP 22 MP5 20% CDR Third Item Timing (Level 13ish? 6500g) + Show Spoiler + Athenes: Dring + Athenes + Sorc Shoes + Void 155 AP +35%+15 Mpen 37 MR +45 Movespeed 215 HP 18 MP5 20% CDR Armguard: Dring + Dring + Armguard + Morello + Void 230 AP +35% Mpen 54 Armor 120 HP 24 MP5 20% CDR So, up until about the 6000 gold point, these builds are damn near identical, you're just getting Armor instead of MR. You're a little harder up on Mana Regen with the Armguard build because you have a second Dring passive instead of an Athenes passive, but not by a lot. You also have fewer item slots, but you've always got at least one for potions and a trinket for wards anyway, so it's k. The Armguard build has slightly less Mpen and slightly less HP at each timing, but it makes up for it with higher AP. It's also got less movespeed, but movespeed is generally more important against AP champions, who typically rely more on skillshots than AD champions. By about 7750g the Armguard build finishes Sorc Shoes and the Athenes build grabs an NLR and then they're both functionally the same, except again you've got Armor instead of MR. The armguard build flows pretty well, you should try it! | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
With going armguard on first back you don't have enough money for enough mana regen after the 7:00-8:00 blue buff runs out. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
You should go 2x Dorans > Morello though. A Dorans Ring is more regen than a Forbidden Idol till level 11. + Show Spoiler + (2 Drings is more regen than a Chalice till level 9) (A Dring and a Forbidden Idol is more regen than a Chalice till level 8) In that case you're basically doing the Athenes build but not getting any MR in favor of more AP. When you do the Armguard build, you shouldn't go Armguard first back, you should go Dorans + Amp Tome + Cloth Armor. You feel like you want to get Armguard ASAP to start stacking it, but honestly it stacks really fast so getting it second back is fine (it should be fully stacked in 3 minutes), and the mana regen on the second Dring is super valuable when you're doing this build. If you get a kill or something you can get both, 1600g on first back isn't impossible. The reason why the Armguard build is so good vs. ADs is because most AD Assassins (Zed Talon Riven Fiora etcetera) can only pressure the lane by threatening to all in you, they can't do effective harass damage. You get so much multiplicative scaling building AP+Armor on your shield, that when you have an early armguard they usually can't kill you in an all in. Zed jumps in and ults you and you literally just do more damage than him and win the fight. If they can't harass you and can't all in you and have to CS in melee range, you can just abuse them as much as you want in lane and it shuts them down hard. You can deny CS, prevent them from roaming, force their jungler to camp you (which is great if it's an AD jungler because guess what, you're building in a way that makes it hard for him to kill you too) and so on. It gives you so much lane pressure that it's worth delaying your 3 item power spike by 1000 gold. As we saw above, your 1 item and 2 item timings are really not delayed, only your 3 item timing is. If you go 2x Dorans + Morello you can still play better than the other guy and win the lane, but you're risking an AD Assassin outplaying you, getting a kill on you, roaming and starting a snowball. Builds like this are why people think that Talon and Zed counter Lux, honestly. You think you're all 1400 range bullshit and they're never going to be able to engage on you, but all it takes is one positional mistake and suddenly you've built in a way that allows them to 100-0 you if they can just get there to do it. Plus, if you build like this they can roam and you can't follow, you have to stay where you have vision. If you build Armguard and they roam, you can follow them and if you meet them in the jungle you just win the fight. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
You're playing against a Zed, and at around 1600g, lets say level 7, he all ins you. He's got Cutlass + Dorans + Longsword. Lets say he gets a pretty perfect all in, 2 autos, multiple shurikens, etc. His all in does about 1000 phys damage and 100 magic damage (Cutlass), plus damage from his passive and 190 from Ignite. How do these all ins play out based on your items? If you're going 2x Doran > Morello: You do 714 damage to him (leaves him at 360 HP) He does 753 phys + 78 magic +190 true damage to you. Your shield blocks 216, so he takes you down to 175, and his passive does an extra 45 damage, leaving you at 130 HP. If you're going 2x Doran > Armguard (unstacked armguard): You do 728 damage to him (leaves him at 346 HP) He does 621 phys + 78 magic + 190 true damage to you. Your shield blocks 220, so he takes you down to 311 HP. But you don't go below half health till the Death Mark pops, meaning he never gets his passive damage. If you're going 2x Doran > Armguard (stacked armguard): You do 757 damage to him (leaves him at 317 HP) He does 571 phys + 78 magic + 190 true damage to you. Your shield blocks 231, so he takes you down to 372 HP. Do you see the difference? If you're going 2x Doran > Morello, he only has to hit you with one unshielded shuriken to get you in range to kill you with an all in. You have to hit him with 2 E's to be able to kill him with an all in. If you're going 2x Doran > Armguard, he has to hit you with 3 when it's unstacked, and 4 when it's stacked. You still only have to hit him with 2 E's. Basically, even before you have any stacks on the Armguard, if he all ins you it likely means you're going to kill him rather than him killing you. So if he can't all in you, how is he going to win the lane? You can literally just walk up and auto him as much as you want and he can't do shit about it other than go back to his tower and bitch for a gank. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
But you're much better at preventing it if you can play the lane up in his face fighting him than you are if you have to play scared trying to waveclear with spells at range. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
It's not *that* big of a surprise, looking at all that. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On September 14 2015 05:00 Caiada wrote: Buffs, gradual itemization shifts, a favorable meta, Viktor nerfs (not sure they're specifically applicable to Lux matchups, but imo, a Viktor nerf is a buff to every other mid atm) It's not *that* big of a surprise, looking at all that. Itemisation shifts haven't really changed in 3-4 patches, and lux was one of the champs who didn't really have problems against viktor :o I'm not surprised she's good, just surprised the q buff was enough to literally jump her from 50% to 55% winrate over all regions and divisions :o | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
She was buffed, other mids were Nerfed, and the meta shifted to something more favorable to her all in the same patch. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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ultraforce
Canada1 Post
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
In general Lux is a super safe pick and doesn't need to worry about being countered. While some champions are definitely stronger against her than others, usually they're stronger because: They are hard to pressure in lane. They have some mechanic that makes them strong vs Lux in teamfights later on, and its usually something defensive rather than offensive. For example, Kayle, Morgana and Lulu are strong mid lane picks against Lux. But to call them counters is a bit of a stretch. A counter to me is somebody who demolishes you when laning, invalidating your champion choice by starving it of gold. For example, Quinn counters Tryndamere (please don't debate this example in the Lux thread its just an example) Nobody counters Lux in that sense. So to answer the question, if you are facing an enemy team where you feel like Lux's strengths are not what your team needs, pick a different champion based on its synergy with the rest of your team. But don't worry about lane counters as a Lux player. If you're having trouble in a specific matchup and feel like it is countering your Lux personally, tell me what matchups you are having trouble with, I think that is probably a question where I can be more useful to you  | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Fizz is more difficult but definitely winnable. I would even say its Lux favored if both players know what they're doing. According to Champion.gg (yay numbers!) Lux has an above average winrate against Fizz and Zed, and slightly below average vs Talon (but still above 50%), which confuses me because I'd consider Talon the easiest of the three. If we only looked at the champion.gg stats it'd say one of the hardest lanes for Lux is Morgana, which I actually agree with. Morg can be rough. What does well against Morgana mid? One thing that I've theorized since the juggernaut changes, but haven't been able to test, is that new Fiora mid should be very hard for Lux. Would be interested in knowing if anybody has played that matchup. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
I've played the matchup only one time, but it was pretty easy. | ||
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Skitter
United States899 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Neither side of the matchup has much kill potential, but hers is better than yours. You cannot kill her in lane ever because she can save black shield to stop Q and walk out of your ult. Rank 1 Q won't completely remove a rank 1 black shield so even with a jungle gank doing more than burning a flash is almost impossible. On the other hand, she can kill you 1v1 (usually requires poor positioning on your part though), and her gank assist against you is fantastic. From level 3 you're basically playing the whole lane reacting to her and letting her take the initiative to do what she wants to do. You have a slight edge levels 1-3 in trading power, but that's only enough to get you a couple CS lead usually, which you will lose by mid game as she takes control of the lane. Later on, fast black shields to stop your snares can allow a good Morgana to prevent you from sniping carries at any point in the game ever. The way you win the game against Morgana is to not try to kill her in lane, but focus on not mispositioning yourself and matching her waveclear and roaming. Tell your jungler you dont want ganks, use Es and even Qs just to cs, and dont let her snare you. Later on she prevents your combo from reaching carries, but you still have a lot more teamfight damage than her plus shields to stop her aoe damage, so you can outclass her later in the game if she didnt get ahead. I take teleport against her. I find that if she killed you its usually because you were too far forward and let her get both a snare and an ult stun on you safely, so a defensive summoner isn't too useful there, just don't fight. Teleport is useful though because it gives you opportunities to make plays elsewhere on the map since you have no in lane playmaking potential. I'd probably also use the shiny new Ludens Echo first build, although we came up with that after the last time I've played this matchup. It's certainly a matchup you can win though (Lux doesn't have matchups she cant win) | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On October 13 2015 20:02 Skitter wrote: Hey Ketara, I want to main Talon, and I was just wondering if you could help me on what tilts the matchup in favor of Lux? And how do I play against a Lux as Talon? Talon is really similar to most AD Assassins as Lux. If you can dodge a Q, you can all in and kill her. If you jump in while she still has Q, she snares you inside her minion wave and shields, forcing you to take a bunch of minion damage and her combo. Her numbers are so high that you usually lose that fight. An inexperienced Lux will try to throw Qs out at you while laning. If you dodge a Q, trade with her while her Q is down and you can kill her and snowball. An experienced Lux will never use Q unless either A - your mobility skill is on cooldown, or B - your health is so low that she can miss Q and win the fight anyway. Against that style of play, there's really not a lot you can do, because you can't out trade her with just poke damage. You can't dodge Qs that she isn't casting. The best advice I can give is to be very aware of her Q cooldown, and be cognicent of if/when she uses it at the wrong time so you can punish it. The other good advice is to pair with a high damage diving jungler and camp her. Lux is very safe vs 1 assassin, but tends to have trouble vs 2. It's too many snare targets and more burst than her shield can handle. This is especially true if you are 1 ad and 1 ap champion, because Lux likes to buy early resistances but cant buy both armor and mr. For example, Fizz isn't a hard lane for Lux, and a Reksai gank with poor followup isnt enough burst to bring her down, but Fizz + Reksai has huge kill potential together and will force me as the Lux to play like a little bitch whenever I don't know where Reksai is. | ||
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