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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm wary about the mana issues. Riot has said they think the mana item changes will hit supports especially hard and will be compensating them somehow, and in Riot terminology Lux is a support, so its possible that she might get some compensation. But its definitely something I want to try. Mejais is a lot easier to work into builds on the pbe for a couple different reasons. | ||
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Vallelol
Germany1046 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
 So far I absolutely think you should go 12/18/0 with pen over CDR at tier 5 cunning and Thunderlords decree. For starting items I'm not sure but I'll cautiously say dark seal is better than dorans ring. The Lich Bane buff was HUGE, it might be a competent 5th item over luden/Liandry now. Need to do math on that. Can you guys test a couple things for me? 1 - do Shaco/wukong/Leblanc clones duplicate Lux passive, or does the passive still show you which one is the real one? 2 - does Lux passive count as a hit for Thunderlords? My hypothesis is that just E+auto at level 1 should activate it. 3 - would like any feedback on how dark seal feels as an opener. I'm going to make a seperate thread for testing purposes later. TYTY. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
In the meantime, I am going to work on updating my Lux spreadsheet for the new changes. After I've finished that, we can start mathcrafting what the changes have done go her. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I want to start by listing what's changed in terms of masteries. We used to get something like: 2.5% CDR 22 AP (6 +16 at level 18) +4.545% damage Execute damage (+5% below 50%) +5% AP Feast regen Dangerous Game Regen +5% AP damage on autoattacks 6% Arpen and Mpen +75 Mana Strength of Spirit Regen 1.5% movement speed Biscuits n' Alchemist Regen Now we get: 10 AD (at level 18) 15 AP (at level 18) +4.55% damage Dangerous Game Regen 8.1 Arpen and Mpen (3 +5.1 at level 18) +50(-3) Base Mana 3% movement speed out of combat Biscuits n' Alchemist Regen Meditation Regen +2% spell damage Thunderlords Decree So in total we are losing: 7 AP +5% AP About 25 damage on autos at level 18 (spellblade vs. 10 bonus AD) Execute damage 25 Mana Feast Regen Strength of Spirit Regen And we are gaining: +2.2% damage S6 pen from masteries is better (by some amount needs math) Meditation Regen Thunderlords Decree I would say that a large amount of the time Lux is bursting people at higher than 50% HP, so the increased spell damage is probably equivalent or better than the execute damage. Damage from autos will be better early game because of how much better Precision is and how arcane blade isn't really relevant till later in the game. Damage from autos late game will probably be slightly worse. Meditation is obviously going to be way better than 25 bonus mana and some Feast regen. Thunderlords Decree and more efficient pen stats will be a bigger damage increase early game than some extra early game AP. Late game, bonus AP was giving us about 40 total AP. Thunderlords Decree is obviously going to outdamage that for burst. For sustained damage I'm not super sure, I can check on the spreadsheet but sustained damage will be lower regardless because of the lack of Arcane Blade. The loss of Feast and Strength of Spirit HP regen is not being replaced anywhere, so that might be felt in tougher matchups. This is compounded by Double Edged Sword making you take a bit more damage. You can switch Double Edged Sword for Feast in the new masteries which makes up for this, but this drops our damage by 2%. Shields will be worse since we're trading AP for % damage sources. So, in conclusion, with the new masteries we've got: More mana regen. More early game damage. More late game burst damage. Less HP regen & very slightly worse shields. Less late game sustained damage. For runes and items most of the AP items were only changed in price value, so that stuff will obviously stay pretty consistent. However, there will be some slight changes: Pen becomes slightly more valuable (we have more of it, more % damage sources to increase our base damage) AP becomes slightly less valuable (no more +5% AP) Flat mana becomes slightly more valuable (Meditation) Mana regen becomes slightly less valuable (Meditation) The differences in all this will be small enough that I don't think it will make huge differences. Void Staff before Deathcap was already typically best and Liandry was already super strong, so I think item builds will be pretty similar. However, one item was significantly changed, and that was Lich Bane. It may be more competitive as a 5th item vs. Ludens and Liandry now, need to do checks on that. Mejais is also much better now so I want to look into that. So, conclusions. What are some key things I want to know here through theorycrafting and testing: #1 - How much better is our mana regen? Is it better enough to alter rune/item builds? Is it better enough that we don't need to go 5 points Meditation, and can drop 1 or 2 for a couple points in Merciless? Answer: With Meditation and Dark Seal instead of Dring, math seems to say we're only about equal or slightly better than we were before, so Merciless is probably a bad idea. #2a - In difficult early game matchups is it worthwhile to switch Double Edged Sword for Feast? If we do this how does this effect our damage? Answer: See 2b #2b - Same question but switching Natural Talent for Vampirism. Which of these changes is more efficient? Answer: Dropping DES for Feast is probably better than dropping Natural Talent for Vampirism, if you need early game survivability in a tough matchup. #3 - Exactly how much did our burst and sustained damage values change? Answer: Burst damage appears to be up about 9%, sustained damage is only lower in autoattack range and about 6% lower. #4 - How does Thunderlords Decree compare to Deathfire Touch when we look at it with maths? Answer: Maths says Thunderlords Decree is crazy better. #5 - Is Mejais core now? Answer: Maths says that Dark Seal is really cost efficient after initial lane, but you shouldn't upgrade it to Mejais. Mejais dropping from 180 max AP to 145 max AP makes both Luden and Liandry better for damage. #6 - How does Lich Bane compare to Luden/Liandry in builds? Answer: Even with bonus CDR, Lich Bane is still not any good. #7 - How do changed damage figures effect breakpoints for clearing minions? This is the stuff I expect to be working on in the coming week or two. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm taking a standard level 18 season 5 Lux build with: Athene Void Hat Luden Liandry HybridPen Armor CDR/level AP 21/0/9 And I'm comparing it to the same build with the new 12/18/0 and 18/12/0 masteries. Target is just an average blob. 100 Armor, 100 MR, 2000 HP. Here's what we get. For Damage: + Show Spoiler + Harass Damage (E Only) S5 Lux: 881 12/18/0 Lux: 887 18/12/0 Lux: 921 Harass DPS (E Only) S5 Lux: 131 12/18/0 Lux: 127 18/12/0 Lux: 131 Efficient Harass Damage (E Only without losing mana) S5 Lux: 61 12/18/0 Lux: 76 18/12/0 Lux: 78 QERE Combo (1 passive combo) S5 Lux: 2643 12/18/0 Lux: 2886 18/12/0 Lux: 2711 QEREaa Combo (2 passive combo) S5 Lux: 2922 12/18/0 Lux: 3212 18/12/0 Lux: 3020 QRaaEEaa Combo (3 passive combo) S5 Lux: 3201 12/18/0 Lux: 3539 18/12/0 Lux: 3266 QEaaEaa (Non Ult Combo) S5 Lux: 2079 12/18/0 Lux: 2399 18/12/0 Lux: 2162 ER (AOE Burst) S5 Lux: 1752 12/18/0 Lux: 1988 18/12/0 Lux: 1779 ER DPS S5 Lux: 159 12/18/0 Lux: 157 18/12/0 Lux: 158 Single Target DPS S5 Lux: 415 12/18/0 Lux: 385 18/12/0 Lux: 390 Conclusions: For Harass Damage All very similar. New builds 20% more mana efficient. For Burst Damage 12/18/0 about 9% better than S5 numbers 18/12/0 about 2.5% better than S5 numbers For Sustained Damage (outside AA range) All very similar. For Sustained Damage (inside AA range) 12/18/0 about 8% worse than S5 numbers 18/12/0 about 6.5% worse than S5 numbers So, basically. The new masteries give us a more mana efficient siege and higher burst damage, without really affecting our sustained damage until we start autoattacking a lot. Once we start autoattacking a lot we lose some sustained damage, probably mostly from losing Arcane Blade. 18/12/0 has very slightly higher sustained damage than 12/18/0. Deathfire Touch does add some damage, but the better pen from Precision evens this out a lot. Deathfire Touch doesn't appear to be very good on Lux, or at least not as good as Thunderlords Decree. Against higher MR Deathfire Touch will slowly start to perform better, but I think it's fairly inconsequential. The burst damage difference between the two at 200 MR goes from 6.5% to 5%. So I'm pretty certain that on the whole 12/18/0 is best, we are doing more damage now, and are more mana efficient in that damage. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Season 5 and Season 6 mana regen values. Same builds. For level 9, season 5 has Athenes and 1 Dring, season 6 has Athenes and 1 Dark Seal. At level 18 + Show Spoiler + Time Before OOM (Teamfight) S5 Lux: 37 seconds S6 Lux: 39 seconds E Max Efficiency S5 Lux: 2.39 E per minion wave S6 Lux: 2.76 E per minion wave At level 9 + Show Spoiler + Time Before OOM (2 E lane) S5 Lux: 339 seconds S6 Lux: 349 seconds Time Before OOM (3 E lane) S5 Lux: 72 seconds S6 Lux: 80 seconds Time Before OOM (Teamfight) S5 Lux: 24 seconds S6 Lux: 29 seconds E Max Efficiency S5 Lux: 1.72 E per minion wave S6 Lux: 1.70 E per minion wave So it appears that by level 9 you have roughly equivalent or better regen than you did in season 5 even if you get Dark Seal over Dring. So any mana problems with Dark Seal are probably only relevant before your first back. What about our other builds at level 9, how do they stack up? Armguard Build (S5) vs. Armguard Build (S6) 2x Dring vs. Dark Seal + Dring. + Show Spoiler + Time Before OOM (2 E lane) S5 Lux: 129 seconds S6 Lux: 215 seconds Time Before OOM (3 E lane) S5 Lux: 53 seconds S6 Lux: 70 seconds Time Before OOM (Teamfight) S5 Lux: 23 seconds S6 Lux: 27 seconds E Max Efficiency S5 Lux: 1.28 E per minion wave S6 Lux: 1.51 E per minion wave Big difference here. Changing Drings from 3 MP5 to 50% MP5 is a nerf at level 1, but by level 9 it's a buff. And what about for our Ludens Echo build? + Show Spoiler + Time Before OOM (2 E lane) S5 Lux: 102 seconds S6 Lux: 110 seconds Time Before OOM (3 E lane) S5 Lux: 48 seconds S6 Lux: 53 seconds Time Before OOM (Teamfight) S5 Lux: 23 seconds S6 Lux: 26 seconds E Max Efficiency S5 Lux: 1.09 E per minion wave S6 Lux: 1.04 E per minion wave Again, season 6 is coming out on top. So it seems like for all builds (especially for the Armguard build), season 6 builds are better mana wise after the initial lane, even with a Dark Seal opener. Whether or not you can sustain the Ludens Echo build without mana pots is another question, you might be forced to take a Dring as well in that build. This needs to be tested. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Defensive values. For this I want to look at S6 masteries vs. 21/9/0 S5 masteries. We'll look at EHP totals, and then look at how much value we get out of Vampirism and Feast in S6, and how much each reduces our damage. EHP Comparison + Show Spoiler + Season 5 EHP +Shield +Heal vs. Magic - 3358 +1348 +534 = 5240 vs. Phys - 4240 +1702 +675 = 6617 vs. True - 2167 +870 +345 = 3382 Season 6 EHP vs. Magic - 3287 +1287 +534 = 5108 vs. Phys - 4150 +1625 +675 = 6450 vs. True - 2121 +830 +345 = 3296 So in general we're going to die about 2.6% faster in season 6. Since Double Edged Swords debuff is a bit more severe we can say about 3% faster. Regen Comparison + Show Spoiler + Season 5 Regen per Second + Feast vs. Magic - 5.20 +0.77 vs. Phys - 6.57 +0.97 vs. True - 3.36 +0.5 Season 6 Regen per Second vs. Magic - 4.58 vs. Phys - 5.79 vs. True - 2.96 So this is where it's a big difference. We had 13% more health regen in season 5, 30% more while CSing. But, if we switch masteries to Feast and Vampirism, how does that compare? S6 defensive masteries + Show Spoiler + Feast Regen vs. Magic - 1.03 vs. Phys - 1.30 vs. True - 0.66 Vampirism Regen (lifesteal) vs. Magic - 1.07 vs. Phys - 1.35 vs. True - 0.69 Vampirism Regen (spell vamp) vs. Magic - 2.73 vs. Phys - 3.45 vs. True - 1.75 For this comparison I counted the Vampirism values at about half the ideal amount to sort of get a more realistic average. Even so they are blowing Feast out of the water (at level 18), and more than making up for the regen discrepency. So how much does losing Double Edged Sword and Natural Talent reduce our damage? Dropping DES reduces our damage by about 2%, that's obvious. Dropping Natural Talent? + Show Spoiler + QERE damage +Nat Tal: 2886 -Nat Tal: 2836 DPS +Nat Tal: 385 -Nat Tal: 374 So, losing Natural Talent drops our damage by about 1.8% burst and 3% sustained. We can say this is fairly similar to Double Edged Sword. Final question! What's better for regen early game, Feast or Vampirism? Vampirism Level 3 values + Show Spoiler + vs. Magic - 0.41 + 0.14 = 0.55 vs. Phys - 0.35 + 0.12 = 0.47 vs. True - 0.26 + 0.09 = 0.35 So, the results are weird. Changing DES to Feast gives us more regen in the early game while not making us take 2% extra damage. Changing Natural Talent to Vampirism gives us more regen late game. The difference in damage is small. For burst it's about the same, Natural Talent gives a slightly higher damage increase to AA's than DES does. Since you're typically only concerned about health regen early in the game as Lux (late game survivability is more positioning than tankiness) I'd say dropping DES for Feast is probably the better option than dropping Natural Talent for Vampirism. Of course in a really difficult matchup to survive you can do both, but Lux doesn't really have those does she. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Gonna check out the Lich Bane buffs. I'm gonna do a few things here. #1 - Look at how Lich Bane looks compared to Luden/Liandry when we buy a Mejais. #2 - Look at how Lich Bane looks compared to Luden/Liandry when we buy a Zhonya. #3 - Look at the difference between Luden+Liandry, Luden+Lich and Liandry+Lich. For each test we'll look at what it's like with full CDR/level blues and with only 6. Test #1 Damage (9 CDR runes) + Show Spoiler + Harass Damage (E Only) Luden: 742 Liandry: 719 Lich: 534 Harass DPS (E Only) Luden: 114 Liandry: 101 Lich: 89 Efficient Harass Damage Luden: 72 Liandry: 64 Lich: 55 ER (AOE Burst) Luden: 1783 Liandry: 1868 Lich: 1557 ER DPS Luden: 143 Liandry: 133 Lich: 119 QERE (Ult Combo) Luden: 2649 Liandry: 2818 Lich: 2401 QEaaEaa (Non Ult Combo) Luden: 2192 Liandry: 2299 Lich: 2304 Single Target DPS Luden: 363 Liandry: 370 Lich: 407 Damage (6 CDR runes) + Show Spoiler + Harass DPS (E Only) Luden: 105 Liandry: 93 Lich: 89 ER DPS Luden: 132 Liandry: 123 Lich: 119 Single Target DPS Luden: 340 Liandry: 347 Lich: 407 Aaaaaaaaand I'm actually gonna stop this comparison right here. Because #1 - the Lich Bane numbers are still too low to be of value. Burst sucks, harass damage sucks, sustained even when it's giving 10% bonus CDR is barely about the same as Liandry. It still gives great single target DPS in autoattack range, but that's not enough to justify big drops in everything else. And because #2 - These numbers are actually lower than our numbers with Ludens + Liandry. So we've learned something else here too. Mejais is bad now. Liandry is better. Which is funny because Dark Seal is actually really super good it looks like. | ||
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Vallelol
Germany1046 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
1 - How does Morellonomicon + Athenes with AP/level runes look now? Answer: Still only worth if you're getting high value out of the Grievous Wounds passive, which has been nerfed so it's likely there's fewer reasons to do this now. 2 - How does it look to take 1 CDR/level quint for 40% CDR over an AP quint? Is that worth the early game damage loss (would need to test) Answer: Maths says 1 CDR/level quint would be way better later in the game. We need to test to see how much losing 5 AP early game would affect things. 3 - How have the changes affected defensive itemization? 4 - How good is Corrupting Potion compared to Dring? Answer: Woops, Corrupting Potions damage bonus is single target stuff only. No good on Luxo. 5 - Is Rod of Ages any good after buffs (coupled with Meditation)? Answer: Maths and logic says no. 6 - Is Seraphs any good when coupled with Meditation? Answer: Maths and logic says no. 7 - For the Armguard build, is flat mana runes any good when coupled with Meditation? Answer: Maths says mana runes are slightly better than mana regen runes now. But it's similar and difficult to math those kinds of things, so this needs to be tested. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
How does Morello + Athenes look? We'll look at AtheneVoidHatMorelloLuden and AtheneVoidHatMorelloLiandry vs. our previous AtheneVoidHatLudenLiandry numbers. Here's what we get: + Show Spoiler + Harass Damage (E Only) Normal: 889 Luden: 692 Liandry: 690 Harass DPS (E Only) Normal: 127 Luden: 115 Liandry: 105 Efficient Harass Damage Normal: 76 Luden: 84 Liandry: 77 ER (AOE Burst) Normal: 1988 Luden: 1673 Liandry: 1800 ER DPS Normal: 157 Luden: 144 Liandry: 138 QERE (Ult Combo) Normal: 2886 Luden: 2489 Liandry: 2706 QEaaEaa (Non Ult Combo) Normal: 2399 Luden: 2056 Liandry: 2215 Single Target DPS Normal: 385 Luden: 366 Liandry: 382 Teamfight Time Before OOM Normal: 39 seconds Luden: 40 seconds Liandry: 40 seconds So basically, CDR runes + Luden + Liandry is better at everything than AP/lvl runes + Morello + Someotheritem. As such, much like before you should only do AP/lvl runes and Athene+Morello if you're pre-planning on dealing with an enemy Tryndamere or Vladimir or something like that. Since the values are really not all that much lower, if you're getting big gains from Grievous Wounds it's an okay option. So, much like most other things, we find that this hasn't really changed in season 6. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
For Rod of Ages and Seraphs, I'm just going to apply some logic. Capped RoA gives 120 AP now. That's pretty good, but it's not as good as 145 from Mejais, which we already proved isn't as good as Luden or Liandry. It's worth looking at as a replacement for your mana item slot. However, for both of these, you still need to get your CDR from somewhere, as Lux requires a minimum of 20% CDR in general. There's no convenient item to get that 20% CDR from. So it can't really take the place of your mana item slot. As such, RoA and Seraphs are still not valuable. In other news, Geript bought me Star Guardian Lux (and Kindred!). Thanks man | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Minor rune changes yay! What do we gain out of going for one CDR/level quint? + Show Spoiler + Harass Damage (E Only) CDR Quint: 882 AP Quint: 887 Harass DPS (E Only) CDR Quint: 132 AP Quint: 127 Efficient Harass Damage CDR Quint: 75 AP Quint: 76 ER (AOE Burst) CDR Quint: 1977 AP Quint: 1988 ER DPS CDR Quint: 165 AP Quint: 157 QERE (Ult Combo) CDR Quint: 2870 AP Quint: 2886 QEaaEaa (Non Ult Combo) CDR Quint: 2386 AP Quint: 2399 Single Target DPS CDR Quint: 409 AP Quint: 385 Teamfight Time Before OOM CDR Quint: 35 AP Quint: 39 So, burst with the AP quint is up by about 0.5% Sustained with the CDR quint is up by about 6% (Why is this 6% and not 5% wtf?) So if you get to late game with this setup it's absolutely high value. And for a mana rune comparison, I'mma look at some level 9 regen values in our Armguard build. + Show Spoiler + Time Before OOM (2 E Lane) Mregen Glyph: 215 seconds Mana Glyph: 217 seconds Time Before OOM (3 E Lane) Mregen Glyph: 70 seconds Mana Glyph: 80 seconds Time Before OOM (Teamfight) Mregen Glyph: 46 seconds Mana Glyph: 51 seconds This seems really similar to me. Math for mana regen is pretty approximate since we assume a lot of variables, so this probably needs some testing. But, mana regen gyphs give 2.96 MP5 Mana glyphs give 101 mana, which can give 1.5 MP5 from Meditation I want to look at this a little more. Here's a level 3 comparison. + Show Spoiler + Time Before OOM (2 E Lane) Mregen Glyph: 151 seconds Mana Glyph: 166 seconds Time Before OOM (3 E Lane) Mregen Glyph: 65 seconds Mana Glyph: 81 seconds Again, seems really similar, but mana runes look to be better now. This is definitely something we should test. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
What questions do we want to ask for how this has changed support Lux? (That haven't been answered already) 1 - What runes/masteries do we use for Support Lux? Are they different than Mid Lux or is it the same build now? Answer: Yeah I think they're different. Need to test this. 2 - Have Frostfang / Frost Queens Claim item timings changed? Answer: Maths and logic says yes, but not a lot. 3 - Is Eye of the Watchers any good? Answer: Not really? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
http://efferentinc.com/wp-content/lol6calc/index.html#K0ECvK0CvKCvE Natural Talent and Vampirism are both bad on support. Both are better late game, and while Vampirism is better early, it loses a lot of value when you aren't CSing. Oppressor is really good, and even better in a duo lane. 6 points Resolve is very strong early game. Neither Runic Armor nor Veterans Scars is very big a deal on Lux. They're good but buying more defenses isn't really all that important. Perserverence is pretty ridic for early game probably. Sorcery is really good. Lux likes damage, especially early game. DES is a good damage increase but also makes you easier to kill. Feast is useless on a support. Funnily, Feast might actually be really good if you were in an arranged game and did it so each wave the ADC took 5 minions and the Support took 1. So I think 6/18/6 is the build. In a really difficult lane (vs. Blitzcrank Graves or whatever) 0/18/12 might be better, but that costs you 4% damage for stuff that's only good early game. You could also potentially get Windspeakers Blessing. Might be preferential. Lux likes damage and Thunderlords gives her damage that isn't completely tied to her AP. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
To start with, FQC got buffed fairly significantly. Better active (much better active) and way more mana regen. Then we're not getting 10% CDR from masteries anymore. In fact, Precision is so overpowered that getting Intelligence at all seems dumb unless you're like a Soraka or somebody who just isn't going to attack things. This loss of CDR means that when you're getting a mana regen / CDR item, going for Ardent Censer or Mikhaels, both of which had questionable usability on Lux, seem pretty crap now. Ardent Censer just doesn't give enough CDR to be useful over Morello and its stats suck. Mikhaels doesn't give AP, and while the active is good, it still doesn't give enough CDR and it gives probably too much mana regen now that FQC gives so much regen. So FQC + Morello now seems pretty required. After that you've got so much mana regen that getting more seems silly. FQC + Morello is more regen than Athenes. Here's a few numbers. All of these assume 40% CDR. Teamfight Time Before OOM Morello only: 32 seconds FQC only: 34 seconds Athenes/Mikhaels only: 35 seconds FQC + Morello: 39 seconds FQC + Athenes/Mikhaels: 42 seconds FQC + Morello + Ardent Censer: 45 seconds FQC + Morello + Lich Bane/Zekes: 48 seconds FQC + Athenes + Lich Bane/Zekes: 53 seconds You don't really need to spam all your spells for 40-50 second fights. It is true that we're not getting Dangerous Game or the Athenes passive, but... Actually hold on I can totally see how much time that shit gives us in the spreadsheet. Yeah you get an average of 0.8 seconds more uptime per Dangerous Game Assist in a mid Lux build, and 1.5 if you're almost OOM. So you can assume it gives you like 3-5 seconds more uptime per teamfight. The Athenes passive gives you an extra 10 seconds per assist which is rofl ridiculous it's such a dumb passive I hate it. Anyway. Point is, FQC+Morello really looks like it's plenty regen. Which means that you can't get value out of another CDR item that has mana regen on it, which basically kills Ardent Censer and Mikhaels. It also makes Zeke's more questionable, and it was already pretty goddamn questionable on Lux. More crit on ADC builds reduces the effectiveness of Zekes too. The CDR items that don't give mana or mana regen were Twin Shadows and Will of the Ancients, and WotA is bad on Lux and Twin Shadows was actually good on support Lux but got removed from the game. In its place is Lich Bane, which I think has some value on support Lux because she can make better use of Lich Bane passive since she's not as concerned as mid with deleting the enemy backline, and the Lich Bane passive lets her deal with the enemy tanks better, and the CDR gives her more utility. Movespeed is more important on support than it is on mid too. Then we've got Eye of the Watcher. Which has basically really terrible stats compared to FQC. FQC + Sightstone gives you, for 3k gold. 150 HP 50 AP 10% CDR 150% mana regen 2 GP10 Tribute Passive Sightstone Active Twin Shadows Active Eye of the Watcher and a Fiendish Codex gives you, for 3k gold. 200 HP 50 AP 10% CDR 150% mana regen 2 GP10 Tribute Passive Sightstone Active So you're basically getting the same stats and just not getting the Twin Shadows active. That's pretty pointless. But! It's not very pointless if you want to be more slot efficient. You don't need to be as slot efficient as maybe you did before since you're never going to get mana potions or green wards or anything like that. But if your'e really fed, I can see some logic in getting Eye of the Watchers for slot efficiency to let you go a more traditional AP build. I think the Eye items are more for Junglers who might want to grab a Sightstone than they are for Supports, frankly. Eye of the Equinox on junglers is probably pretty good. I dunno that it's as good as Face of the Mountain though (lol) If the Eye items gave the CDR they'd be way way better. But, I digress. So the final question is. Before the FQC changes, it was more stat efficient to go Frostfang, then grab Morello, then finish FQC. Has this changed? FQC is 2200g with 50 AP 10% CDR 150% mana regen 2 GP10 Tribute Passive Twin Shadows Active Frostfang + Codex + Idol is 2200g with 50 AP 20% CDR 150% mana regen 2 GP10 Tribute Passive Then for a look a little later on. Morello + Frostfang is 3400g with 95 AP 20% CDR 200% mana regen 2 GP10 Tribute Passive Morello Passive FQC + Codex + Idol is 3550g with 75 AP 20% CDR 250% mana regen 2 GP10 Tribute Passive Twin Shadows Active So I'm actually not sure here? The stats are better going for Morello + Frostfang. It depends on how high value Spooky Ghosts is for your team comp, I guess. It's not as obvious as it was before. SO, CONCLUSIONS This is about what I'm gonna suggest for support items: Starting Items - Frostfang - Sightstone - Sorc Shoes Core Build - Frost Queens Claim - Morellonomicon - Sightstone * FQC first or Morello first is preferential. ** If you're real fed and just want to do a solo lane build, get Eye of the Watchers + Morello instead and build like a mid lane Lux. CDR Item (Pick one) - Banner of Command (MR aura for Siege comps) - Locket of the Iron Solari (MR aura for Teamfight comps) - Zeke's Harbinger (Questionable value on Lux) - Lich Bane (For killing/peeling enemy tanks) Damage Item (Pick one) - Void Staff (Highest damage) - Ludens Echo (High poke damage + movespeed) - Liandry's Torment (Damage + HP) - Zhonya's Hourglass (Damage + Zhonya active) | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
And I want to put it on this page and this is the 20th post of the page, so, I'm saving this post for that. TYTYTYTY | ||
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