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Here's a short preseason Lux update. I'll probably be remaking the thread for S5 after preseason is over.
Basically Lux hasn't changed much with season 5. The big things that are changed are:
A - Athenes is worse. This is in general a nerf to Lux over other champions since she and Athenes are BFFs4eva, and it is going to lower her powerlevel in a lot of matchups relative to her opposing mid. I can understand why Riot nerfed Athenes, but I'm hoping they buff Lux to compensate for it somewhere down the line, because its a nerf that hits her very hard relative to other Mages.
B - Lux's stats are better. She got a little bit extra base mana regen and the changes to level 1 stats cushions the fact that her early level base stats were so awful a bit. That's cool and all, and in general I think she's actually stronger now vs. AD lanes where you wouldn't build Athenes, but the Athenes nerf is big enough that I think she's overall still worse in Athenes matchups.
C - The biggest change playstyle wise I think is that Mejais is now a totally viable item. Lux can buy it essentially at any point in the game after her big regen/CDR item if she thinks she's ahead and can get stacks without dying, and a high stacked Mejais makes an excellent 6th item. Essentially, Mejais is straight up better than it was in S4 until you've died twice with it. At one death it is still better than old Mejais, but from two deaths onward it is worse. And its gold efficiency at the initial purchase is much much better now. So if you're ahead and fighting a team that can't assassinate you very easily, buy it.
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Do you think that Morello's and pots makes up the power of Athenes? Its always been more raw power(CDR/AP) than Athenes but with the MP/5 changes it competes pretty well in terms of sustain as well. Especially since lux is so safe with her shield she doesn't need the MR as much, it seems like you can save the 600 gold and spend that on pots/wards/other items and be better off
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I would assume until Athene's isn't utter garbage you would go the Tear/Morello build. Like Ketera mentioned, you can add Mejai's relatively safely when appropriate.
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Tear is still garbage on Lux.
Morello by itself still doesn't give enough mana regen.
You have to go like 2x dorans + Athenes or go 1x doran + Chalice + Morello.
Double doran + Morello and Mana Regen blues against AD laners is still strong, though.
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Is Doran's Ring the only viable starting item for Lux now or is Flask still viable with the base stat changes?
Throughout most of season 4 I was running Flask start (into Athene's) with 9 utility in order to get the 10% extra duration buff for my flask. Bonus because chalice passive had synergy with the flask regen. But with the base stat changes and the change to Athene's regen (no more flask synergy) I'm considering starting Doran's Ring (x2) and going straight into Morello's.
Looking just at Lux's base stats, the mana regen from Athene's vs Morello's breaks even at around 50% of your mana pool, which favors Athen's whenever you are below 50% remaining mana.
These are the two build paths I'm considering for Season 5:
Mid-game power spike:
21-9-0 Mastery, Flat AP glyphs, Doran's Ring (x2) > Morellos.
~or~
Late game super spam:
21-0-9 Mastery, Scaling CDR glyphs, Flask > Tear > Athene's
Thoughts on these builds? What does everyone recommend after playing this pre-season?
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Basically Flask vs. Dorans revolves around how much CS you expect to be getting.
For Lux, it's not clear. I've gone over the math for this a couple of times, and what it comes down to essentially is if you're getting Diamond league CS Dorans is a better opener, and if you're getting Silver league CS Flask is a better opener. Personally, I am opening Dorans in 1v1 lanes and Flask in the rare 1v2 lane.
As for how the preseason changes affect this, in general they make Flask a less attractive option for the following reasons.
#1 - With the base stat changes you have more mana and more mana regen early on. Having more AP makes each point of innate mana more valuable, since you are getting more damage dealt per point of mana spent.
#2 - The change to Chalice removes the Flask+Chalice synergy.
As to your builds, I still don't see any viable reason to buy a Tear on Lux, and I question whether or not 2x Doran + Morellos is enough regen. When I'm playing her I feel starved for mana now on 2x Dorans + Athenes, it seems to be much worse than it used to be. 1x Doran + Chalice + Morello I think is probably the most efficient build, late in the game selling the Chalice for a 6th item.
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On December 12 2014 04:40 Ketara wrote:
Stop quoting yourself
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Disclaimer: I haven't played any ranked games with Lux this season but she was my most played mid-laner in season 4.
If you're sitting on 2x Dorans and mana starved, Athenes will provide better mana sustain than Morello with just champion base stats even though the Dorans regen doesn't synergise with Mana Font anymore. Since you feel you need more regen than just Athenes or Morello can provide we have suggested two options:
Lux's base mana @ lvl 11: 773 mana pool w/ 13p5 regen
1) Chalice + Morello:
150% base regen = 32.5 total regen + Mana Font (0 - 15.6)
80 AP
3100 Gold
2) Tear + Athenes:
75% base regen = 22.75 total regen + Mana Font (0 - 20.46)
60 AP
250 Mana (+stacks)
3420 Gold
Mana Font provides an additional 0.02 max regen per mana. At max stacks (+750 mana) Tear + Mana Font provides up to 15 extra regen.
IMO:
Tear provides less regen but is offset by a larger mana pool that synergises with Athenes in the late game. Tear also provides a smooth late-game transition into Seraphs. The first build, however, allows for a stronger mid-game power spike. But I would argue that in order to capitalize on the mid-game power spike you shouldn't buy Chalice and instead invest that gold into Elixir of Sorcery for the extra AP+regen+True damage. Chalice+Morello just felt so slow to me in season 4 (I was building Athenes+Morello) which is why I switched to scaling CDR runes instead of Morello. I feel like the late-game build would be more reliable and if you wanted a mid-game power spike wouldn't you just build the new Mejais?
TL:DR
Mid-game Power: Dorans (2x)*, Morello, Sorcery Elixir, Flat AP Glyphs.
Late-game Power: Dorans (1x)*, Tear, Athenes, Scaling CDR Glyphs.
*[Replace 1 Dorans with Flask if you struggle to CS]
Thoughts?
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I have mained Lux for the past 4 months or so but have not been playing much in the pre-season.
I know many people disagree with me but I don't think any CDR item is good on lux now. Even when you do well morello feels terrible because the component value is like a bad Athenes with all the gold efficiency shoved into the final combine. I even tried going double morello because Voyboy was raving about it and 200% base mana regen starts out feeling super terrible and then becomes good very late after your base values scale.
What I have been running is 30% scaling CDR in runes and going Seraphs rush into Deathcap. At level 6 you will have 15% CDR and 25% with blue that scales into 35% late game capped by blue. The AP value of Seraphs will be less than a true tear stacker but you will still be getting about 100 AP and 50% base mana regen that will scale into late game, even if it takes you 5 more minutes to get the active than most. Late game just get blue or use the potion for 15 mana per 5.
The thing that really stinks is using up all of those rune slots. You really feel it for the first 5 levels.
This has been my go to in low D1 but like i said, its only been a game here and there.
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I've always taken either Athenes or Morellos on Lux. I don't like any of the builds without one.
Why not take just 15% scaling CDR runes and rush Tear+Athenes for the extra synergy? The 5% from Masteries will top you out at 40% @ level 18. Then you can fill those other rune slots with something else you might need for the early game. Also the AP that Lux gains from Seraphs should top out around 120 (60+30+30) by level 18.
What do you gain by rushing Archangels into Deathcap instead of Tear+Athenes into Deathcap? Seraphs is a great late game item. Rushing Tear is good but I disagree about rushing for Seraphs on Lux.
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On December 12 2014 06:25 Ghost-z wrote:
I've always taken either Athenes or Morellos on Lux. I don't like any of the builds without one.
Why not take just 15% scaling CDR runes and rush Tear+Athenes for the extra synergy? The 5% from Masteries will top you out at 40% @ level 18. Then you can fill those other rune slots with something else you might need for the early game. Also the AP that Lux gains from Seraphs should top out around 120 (60+30+30) by level 18.
The problem is that going tear + athenes is like giving up on early and mid game. That is 3420 gold for 60 AP so you will be relying on base values for a loooooooong time. Seraphs does give 120 AP when fully stacked but you start with some stacks from the initial tear and it gives you 250 mana up front so you get about 500 mana from it when you combine usually.
I can't agree more with earlier posts that when Athenes was the one item sustain we all had to have it was LuX+AthenEsBFF4eva but now that no one item can realistically sustain you in the early/mid game I think my build is the closest thing to old Lux with the small added benefit that it scales well late. Sadly that later power is earned by being super squishy early.
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Athenes and Archangels have the same cost = 2700 Gold.
You are trading 20% CDR, 25 MR, & Mana Font passive for ~500 Mana and ~25 AP.
Assuming I also have Boots.1 + Tear and you already have Boots.2
I'm replacing your 15% scaling CDR quints with 15 flat AP quints.
How are you not giving up MORE early and mid game power? Especially when you are trying to farm/sustain off just a Tear. Are you saying Lux can sustain her mana better with Archangels rather than Athenes or Morello?
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On December 12 2014 07:12 Ghost-z wrote:
Athenes and Archangels have the same cost = 2700 Gold.
You are trading 20% CDR, 25 MR, & Mana Font passive for ~500 Mana and ~25 AP.
Assuming I also have Boots.1 + Tear and you already have Boots.2
I'm replacing your 15% scaling CDR quints with 15 flat AP quints.
How are you not giving up MORE early and mid game power? Especially when you are trying to farm/sustain off just a Tear. Are you saying Lux can sustain her mana better with Archangels rather than Athenes or Morello?
I'm saying that the build works better in my experience yes. And when I say this I mean as a one item mana solution I find that you are better off right now just increasing your pool. None of the items come close to old athenes as far as keeping you in lane basically forever so I tend to lean on the fountain more. Ulting a double wave and backing is one of her standard moves after all.
I's also like to add that you get 8 mana back per spell cast with seraphs until you cap the item. Also you can do what you like with runes, I am just addicted to CDR generally.
tl/dr: Sustaining off of one item is not realistic anymore so I would rather double my mana pool and use the fountain when I don't have blue (which is .5% max mana per sec btw).
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I was considering the fact that this change to mana regen might be a stealth Tear buff. Essentially Tear is about 5 mana regen with constant stacking (+25% base) but we all know Lux can't keep up with other Tear stackers. I still don't think Lux can sustain off double Doran's and a Tear alone. I'll be trying some builds with her tonight to see what works for me.
I'm wondering how a double Dorans into double Morellos build feels.
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Okay so.
Lets organize this discussion a little bit.
The first thing that I think is worth pointing out is that none of these proposed builds are lacking in CDR. If you're going for a Tear but taking CDR/level glyphs and quints, you're still getting CDR.
What Velociraptures build does is sacrifice tons of early game power for an amount of late game power. The finished Seraphs item is actually pretty strong on Lux. The big deal is that Tear is not strong on her. She has no special synergy with the item, while she does have synergy with Chalice, since that gives MR which Lux loooooooves.
The main thing I think is the runes prevent you from going aggressive in lane pre-6. Then buying Tear prevents you from going aggressive in lane for some time after that. There are some lanes where Lux basically can't go aggressive (Morgana!) and I think the merits of a Tear build are probably discussable there.
Personally, I think levels 1-3 are just about the best time in the game for Lux, and using a build that doesn't let her bully during that period is strange. I also think that the late game gains of going Seraph over say Morello (60ish AP and an active) are likely not worth sacrificing your laning pressure for the first 15-20 minutes of the game.
The thing about going Chalice+Morello is that it's just mathematically more efficient than going Athenes. If you look at it like 2x Doran+Athenes vs. Doran+Chalice+Morello, this is what you get in terms of differing stats:
2x Doran+Athenes
- 90 AP
- 120 HP
- 50%+6 mana regen
- 3500g
Doran+Chalice+Morello
- 95 AP
- 60 HP
- 150%+3 mana regen
- 3600g
The latter option is just better stats, and also kind of a better build up too (smaller parts).
So it seems to me that the real question should be is Doran+Tear+Morello enough. That's 300g cheaper but misses out on 25 MR and some early game regen (after you spend a while stacking it it's probably similar or even better than the Chalice).
As to that I honestly don't know. If you don't need the MR it's probably fine, but if you don't need the MR you can already go mana regen glyphs with 2x doran+Morello, which is a strong build and doesn't sacrifice any early game power at all.
Ultimately I really honestly think Lux is just having an identity crisis in season 5. We understand that just going Athenes is no longer satisfactory so we're trying to find somewhere else to go, but the reality of the matter is that there is nowhere else to go. We still want to be building Athenes we just can't justify it, and if we can't justify that, I'm not sure we can really justify playing Lux at all over some other champion who can make better use of Morello or Tear, such as Ziggs, Xerath or Orianna.
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On December 12 2014 08:10 Ketara wrote:
Okay so.
Lets organize this discussion a little bit.
The first thing that I think is worth pointing out is that none of these proposed builds are lacking in CDR. If you're going for a Tear but taking CDR/level glyphs and quints, you're still getting CDR.
What Velociraptures build does is sacrifice tons of early game power for an amount of late game power. The finished Seraphs item is actually pretty strong on Lux. The big deal is that Tear is not strong on her. She has no special synergy with the item, while she does have synergy with Chalice, since that gives MR which Lux loooooooves.
The main thing I think is the runes prevent you from going aggressive in lane pre-6. Then buying Tear prevents you from going aggressive in lane for some time after that. There are some lanes where Lux basically can't go aggressive (Morgana!) and I think the merits of a Tear build are probably discussable there.
Personally, I think levels 1-3 are just about the best time in the game for Lux, and using a build that doesn't let her bully during that period is strange. I also think that the late game gains of going Seraph over say Morello (60ish AP and an active) are likely not worth sacrificing your laning pressure for the first 15-20 minutes of the game.
The thing about going Chalice+Morello is that it's just mathematically more efficient than going Athenes. If you look at it like 2x Doran+Athenes vs. Doran+Chalice+Morello, this is what you get in terms of differing stats:
2x Doran+Athenes
- 90 AP
- 120 HP
- 50%+6 mana regen
- 3500g
Doran+Chalice+Morello
- 95 AP
- 60 HP
- 150%+3 mana regen
- 3600g
The latter option is just better stats, and also kind of a better build up too (smaller parts).
So it seems to me that the real question should be is Doran+Tear+Morello enough. That's 300g cheaper but misses out on 25 MR and some early game regen (after you spend a while stacking it it's probably similar or even better than the Chalice).
As to that I honestly don't know. If you don't need the MR it's probably fine, but if you don't need the MR you can already go mana regen glyphs with 2x doran+Morello, which is a strong build and doesn't sacrifice any early game power at all.
Ultimately I really honestly think Lux is just having an identity crisis in season 5. We understand that just going Athenes is no longer satisfactory so we're trying to find somewhere else to go, but the reality of the matter is that there is nowhere else to go. We still want to be building Athenes we just can't justify it, and if we can't justify that, I'm not sure we can really justify playing Lux at all over some other champion who can make better use of Morello or Tear.
I disgree that rushing seraphs is destroying her early power. Component wise you are trading an 820 gold 30 ap/10% cdr component buy for a 840 gold 40 AP component buy and a 1000 gold 0dps/25 MR mana sustain buy for a 720 gold 0dps/250 mana sustain item. Unless you are saying that sacrificing the runes is crushing your early game (which you can totally do what you want with). Even with morellos most of the gold value is in the final combine so you have pretty much the same first back no matter which of the 3 you go.
Scaling CDR gets a bad rep because people see "scaling" and think late game. Pre-6 you are mana gated anyhow and lux has no problem going OOM before her first buy with zero CDR. At level 6 scaling runes give 2/3 of the benefit flat runes would give (which is when you get your ability most in need of CDR) and match at level 9 after which its all bonus.
Edit: For reference because I am currently watching it, Mancloud as a much better mid than me is level 9 at 12 minutes and can almost afford chalice at 14 mins (probably a little later than usual) with level 1 boots and one ring.
The only argument against rushing seraphs in my mind is if you feel like ap quints/mr blues are 100% required for levels 1-3 lux or if you feel the sustain items are actually good enough.
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The point is that you shouldn't be comparing Seraphs to Athenes, because you shouldn't be getting Athenes anymore period.
If you look at Archangel + 2 Dorans vs. Doran + Chalice + Morello, and assume that your rune changes are justifying the CDR changes, this is what you get. In terms of showing a comparison, we'll look at scaling AP runes, and a comparison at level 12, which is where the scaling CDR will hit about 20%.
Doran+Chalice+Morello+APMR runes
- 128 AP
- 60 HP
- 150%+3 +2% missing mana regen
- 25 MR
- 3600g
2x Doran+Archangel+Scaling CDR
- 111-126 AP
- 120 HP
- 50%+6 mana regen + bunch o' mana
- 3500g
So, by level 12 you're still at less AP, less MR and a ton less mana regen.
Pre 12 you have more CDR, more regen to use that CDR, a significant amount of MR (which is one of Lux's favorite stats) and more AP. It seems clear to me that a Chalice+Morello build would give you more combat stats in the level 6-12 range, while the runes and buildup will give you more power in the 1-6 range. The AP and regen are probably fairly equal at about level 13. You are basically trading power 1-12 for power 14-18 with a Tear build.
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On December 12 2014 08:57 Ketara wrote:
The point is that you shouldn't be comparing Seraphs to Athenes, because you shouldn't be getting Athenes anymore period.
If you look at Archangel + 2 Dorans vs. Doran + Chalice + Morello, and assume that your rune changes are justifying the CDR changes, this is what you get. In terms of showing a comparison, we'll look at scaling runes for AP and MR as well, and a comparison at level 12, which is where the scaling CDR will hit about 20%.
Doran+Chalice+Morello+APMR runes
- 111 AP
- 60 HP
- 150%+3 +2% missing mana regen
- 42 MR
- 3600g
2x Doran+Archangel+Scaling CDR
- 111-126 AP
- 120 HP
- 50%+6 mana regen + bunch o' mana
- 3500g
So, by level 12 you're at less than 15 more AP (I don't think you have tear fully stacked at 12) for 42 MR and a ton of mana regen.
Pre 12 you have more CDR, more regen to use that CDR, a significant amount of MR (which is one of Lux's favorite stats) and likely more AP. It seems clear to me that a Chalice+Morello build would give you more combat stats in the level 6-11 range, while the runes and buildup will give you more power in the 1-6 range. You are basically trading power 1-11 for power 13-18 with a Tear build.
I guess the situation in my mind takes on certain dimensions you're not seeing as important.
1) On first back/component-wise, all three builds (seraphs/morello/grail) are the same. Where morello buys tome and charm (for example) seraph buys blasting wand and charm. I see these as essentially equal buys. This means that the only difference you will feel in play at all is from runes (12 mr and 15 AP) until around 14 minutes (athenes) or 12 mins (morello) at which point the game has developed to a state where MR is far less powerful of a combat stat for lux (in my opinion, you definitely feel the loss pre-6).
2) When I go 100% OOM I head back to base no matter which build I go. No single sustain item this season is of a quality comparable to old athenes so this is happening more no matter what. The more you base the less valuable mana sustain becomes and the more valuable mana pool becomes.
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You're assuming a blasting wand and a faerie charm vs. a fiendish codex and faerie charm, when what you should be assuming is a blasting wand and faerie charm vs. a Chalice.
Chalice is more laning and teamfight power than Blasting Wand on Lux in all situations in all games ever period. Fiendish Codex + Faerie charm is also more power than Blasting Wand + Faerie Charm.
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On December 12 2014 09:15 Ketara wrote:
You're assuming a blasting wand and a faerie charm vs. a fiendish codex and faerie charm, when what you should be assuming is a blasting wand and faerie charm vs. a Chalice.
Chalice is more laning and teamfight power than Blasting Wand on Lux in all situations in all games ever period. Fiendish Codex + Faerie charm is also more power than Blasting Wand + Faerie Charm.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree (even if I have no idea what you are building that chalice into if not athenes or are you just delaying your morellos completion by 1000 gold and selling it later). On your first back you will probably be level 6-7 and in my opinion the value of defensive stats on lux strongly devalues as you move out of the standard laning phase. Any time I am not engaging in 1 on 1 lane trades with an AP mid or running for my life I would rather have AP. Getting meaningfully hit at all in team fights as lux should mean they went super duper hard on you and got punished (edit: I am refering to approximately even games here, there are always exceptions). I stand by my assessment that the rune MR lost pre 6 is a thing but after that I guess it depends on your take.
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EPT
