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FaCE_1
Canada6184 Posts
On May 15 2013 20:15 1godless wrote: Poke--> Jayce Nid Ziggs Lux Tanky frontline---> Mundo Ali Blitz ADC---> lulu Kog Supp-->Janna Sona Rammus for zoom zoom and Rengar for bush abuse my comp would be like this Sona, MF, TF, Maokai, Riven (or jax or Irelia or Kah) | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
On May 15 2013 17:31 Seuss wrote: If the entire point is to get a Deathcap-level AP provider, you would just buy another Deathcap. Part of the reason you invest in Seraph's isn't the AP but the Mana/Mp5. The problem being that the Mana/Mp5 isn't sufficient for a significant number of champions, especially during the first 10-15 minutes when towers are still standing and fights are less decisive. You can use the Healing Relics to try and make up the difference, but that's extremely selfish when you could have built a Chalice and left the Healing Relics to others who have less flexible itemization or actually need to heal. I'm not saying Seraph's is a bad item, but I very frequently see it being bought not because of the AP but because of the Mana/Mp5, when Chalice does a better job and costs one third as much. i am wondering, did you miss the part where i said you should only be getting tear.on champs that can efficiently stack it? because i did say that.... | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On May 16 2013 04:04 Holcan wrote: i am wondering, did you miss the part where i said you should only be getting tear.on champs that can efficiently stack it? because i did say that.... The ability to efficiently stack Tear is irrelevant to the points that I'm making. I'm not interested in stacking Tear, I'm interested in whether or not a champion can sustain an ideal rate of ability usage without relying on Healing Relics. As a result I disagree that Nidalee is a good choice for Tear. She can stack it, certainly, but Tear alone is not sufficient for Nidalee to sustain her poke, let alone use her traps and heals with any frequency. Basically, I dislike Tear and all the items that build from it in ARAMs because it's an investment that doesn't pay off for most of the champions that take that itemization path. It's fine on Ryze, Singed, or Blitzcrank because they get more out of Mana itemization than other champions, but for just about everyone else you'd be better off with a Chalice and rushing items with both immediate and equal or greater impact. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
Yesterday I played an ARAM and rolled Soraka. Knowing how much I hate Soraka, I rerolled for Master Yi. Did I make the right choice and did I end up with a better Champion? + Show Spoiler + I personally suspect Yi is way better, but I'm no ARAM master like some people. | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
After playing enough ARAMs, I think the healing from Soraka/Sona/Taric/Alistar is approximately the same (on champions) if they all max CDR. Usually caps out between 25-30k. Although with Taric I feel like it tends to be worth more, since half of it is self healing (at least) and it's so easy to get 250/150 resists and eat almost everything the enemy team throws. And then on top of that, there's his auras and his damage is still quite respectable when building pure CDR tank. But whenever I see a Taric on my team, 9/10 he has no idea what he's doing. -_- | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 17 2013 03:31 zer0das wrote: Taric is the best, absorb tons of damage, heal it all back no problem. Always manmode, never not manmode. After playing enough ARAMs, I think the healing from Soraka/Sona/Taric/Alistar is approximately the same (on champions) if they all max CDR. Usually caps out between 25-30k. Although with Taric I feel like it tends to be worth more, since half of it is self healing (at least) and it's so easy to get 250/150 resists and eat almost everything the enemy team throws. And then on top of that, there's his auras and his damage is still quite respectable when building pure CDR tank. But whenever I see a Taric on my team, 9/10 he has no idea what he's doing. -_- No way, when it comes to healing Alistar is far ahead. Many alistars build AP and no regen and can't do it, but if you want to he heals for far more. His heal is 180+ on five people on about a 5 or less second CD if you get CDR and count the cooldown reduction on minion death. This far outheals soraka/sona/taric who only heal one or two. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
(the following numbers are ignoring the heal debuff on Howling Abyss for simplicity's sake). Taric's heal is effectively on a 3-4 second cooldown if you have 40% CDR and you're in the fray and smacking champions with your hammer, and it heals for a total of 268 health on himself and someone else with just a grail. Sona's is on a 4.2 second cooldown and she can afford to build almost pure AP and get 40% CDR at the same time, so at 400 AP she's healing herself and another person for 220 health every 4.2 seconds. Soraka has a heal on a 12 second cooldown with max CDR, and with 400 AP she's healing for 530 health. The weakest of the 4 overall, but somewhat offset by the 720 heal for her whole team every 78 seconds Alistar's heal is half as effective on allies, so it's only about 100 health per roar for his teammates. Alistar doesn't always have a minion wave either, and later on people clear waves so quickly you probably aren't getting the full benefit of the 2 second reduction on it for every enemy minion death. Taric can sustain his stupid 3-4 second heal as long as he can stand and whack people with his hammer. Sona doesn't need to do anything special and is healing fairly close to Taric's maximum healing output provided she has taken damage. Soraka is probably a fair bit lower than the other 3 in terms of raw healing, I will admit. But it's somewhat offset by the armor buff. Anyways, my point is Alistar's theoretical maximum theoretical healing rate is almost never met, and on top of that Taric and Sona are really stupid. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
With Taric my heals always feel really lousy. If you're behind or zoned at all it's like forever for it be up for what feels like an insignificant heal. I tried max heal and it felt really bad but there's no math behind that. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On May 17 2013 07:13 zer0das wrote: Early on Alistar's healing is superior, I'm not especially convinced it is later.+ Show Spoiler + You almost never get the full effect of Alistar's heal because healing 5 people is difficult in practice. Sometimes people are at full health, sometimes people are dead, sometimes you're busy bonking the enemy ADC with headbutt/pulverize, fights become more spread out as the game progresses, etc. (the following numbers are ignoring the heal debuff on Howling Abyss for simplicity's sake). Taric's heal is effectively on a 3-4 second cooldown if you have 40% CDR and you're in the fray and smacking champions with your hammer, and it heals for a total of 268 health on himself and someone else with just a grail. Sona's is on a 4.2 second cooldown and she can afford to build almost pure AP and get 40% CDR at the same time, so at 400 AP she's healing herself and another person for 220 health every 4.2 seconds. Soraka has a heal on a 12 second cooldown with max CDR, and with 400 AP she's healing for 530 health. The weakest of the 4 overall, but somewhat offset by the 720 heal for her whole team every 78 seconds Alistar's heal is half as effective on allies, so it's only about 100 health per roar for his teammates. Alistar doesn't always have a minion wave either, and later on people clear waves so quickly you probably aren't getting the full benefit of the 2 second reduction on it for every enemy minion death. Taric can sustain his stupid 3-4 second heal as long as he can stand and whack people with his hammer. Sona doesn't need to do anything special and is healing fairly close to Taric's maximum healing output provided she has taken damage. Soraka is probably a fair bit lower than the other 3 in terms of raw healing, I will admit. But it's somewhat offset by the armor buff. Anyways, my point is Alistar's theoretical maximum theoretical healing rate is almost never met, and on top of that Taric and Sona are really stupid. That's basically all you really need to know right there. Healing and sustain are at their most important during the early stages of the game, when standoffs comprise the majority of time spent. Alistar's blatant early advantage, with or without CDR, makes him disgusting if he's played correctly (Chalice + eat poke like a boss). The other sustain supports are also strong and in some cases are stronger later (especially during fights), but when it comes to the first 10-15 minutes of the game Alistar is clearly the strongest, and that's enough to decide most ARAMs. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Yes, this many >'s. They are appropriate. On May 17 2013 00:34 AsmodeusXI wrote: Important question: Yesterday I played an ARAM and rolled Soraka. Knowing how much I hate Soraka, I rerolled for Master Yi. Did I make the right choice and did I end up with a better Champion? + Show Spoiler + I personally suspect Yi is way better, but I'm no ARAM master like some people. Not really, tho it kinda depends. If you were really lacking damage, then it's k heals/sustain is really op in aram, moreso if you can heal other people too. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
gg | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On May 17 2013 12:09 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: I got Skarner 3 times in aram. Won all of them. Obviously skarner is hidden yango-tier. I got Skarner in like 3 out of 8 ARAMs one night and my friend bought me a skin because he felt bad for me xD. I didn't do nearly as well. Edit: Attached was a Gurren Lagann-esque inspirational message that I wish I had saved. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
I must admit I don't understand why Skarner is rated so low. He's horrible early game, that for sure. But if you have a team composition in the beginning Skarner is a beast. I build him for max CDR (with a late Shurelia as the Philo Stone start is mandatory), tankiness and finishing off with a Gunblade -- once you get the gunblade you are probably the most tanky beast in the game and with Iceborn, Shurelia, Gunblade plus innate skills extremely, if not impossible, hard to escape, if even possible outside of Ezreal. The amount of damage Skarner does with Gunblade and Iceborn should not be underestimated and the sustain it grants alongside his E is insane. Horrible early, insane late. Strong in the right team, useless in the wrong. Likewise with Poppy. Basically Bronze or Platinum tier depending on team mates. edit: I use a hybrid rune page which scales into 20% CDR with CDR mastery so I cap with Shurelia and Iceborn leaving space for Aegis -- Aegis rush is what Skarner can do early to help his team. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
Another strong itemization on him is Spirit Visage, granted it'll put you over CDR cap -- sometimes I run a 10% cdr setup from rune/masteries which works out for a total 40% too without wasted stats; depending on mood and intuitiuon regarding enemy team.  Expanding on how I play him (I even try to trade for him if I can) early game you start philo stone and keep until you reach the point where you can dive, then you rush for an Aegis (I skip boots until I have this) where I try to protect my ranged carries. Skilling I get E and W, survival and a mediocre poke (that can randomly yield an assist) - Q isn't really needed early as you barely spend any time in close combat (unless you have a strong engage champion which actually can do something early). | ||
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