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On March 19 2016 04:38 Shiragaku wrote:
So I main support (I get that role almost 100 percent of the time) and my winrate is below 50 while having an average score of 1/6/17. I see my carry friends with good ratios usually come out of their games with wins, while I feel like I lose a lot. Is it something to do with my skill or is the myth that supports can't carry true? Or is my score most likely inflated with me having assist steals and my impact on the team is probably very little?
It's a little bit of both true and false.
the short version is that supports have less potential to 'reverse' games (ex. behind 0-10 at 10 minutes) and bruteforce carry (ex. 10-0 irelia destroying everyone by clicking on them), but they are also more stable in that it is harder to punish mistakes made by supports and the impact is usually not as big. so it's a give and take situation, you lose some carry potential but you also get away with more stuff. you might not carry games that you felt like you could've had you been some stronger role, but you will also find yourself getting carried in some games.
also, if you're in lower elo and playing stuff like thresh/janna/etc (low damage supports) and think you should be climbing faster, try higher damage supports. not that those champs are bad, but utility champs get stronger with better players (both teammates and the player itself) and you can get a bit more of 'forceful carrying' on higher damage champs like bard, zyra, brand, etc.
I hardly ever play utility supports when climbing lower elo. playing the higher damage supports are a much faster way to get to your actual elo.
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When I started playing ranked on my smurf, I'd just play Annie if I got support and build sightstone/pure damage. Extremely easy to get kills in lane and then just one shot a carry later in the game.
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On March 19 2016 06:45 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2016 04:38 Shiragaku wrote:
So I main support (I get that role almost 100 percent of the time) and my winrate is below 50 while having an average score of 1/6/17. I see my carry friends with good ratios usually come out of their games with wins, while I feel like I lose a lot. Is it something to do with my skill or is the myth that supports can't carry true? Or is my score most likely inflated with me having assist steals and my impact on the team is probably very little? It's a little bit of both true and false. the short version is that supports have less potential to 'reverse' games (ex. behind 0-10 at 10 minutes) and bruteforce carry (ex. 10-0 irelia destroying everyone by clicking on them), but they are also more stable in that it is harder to punish mistakes made by supports and the impact is usually not as big. so it's a give and take situation, you lose some carry potential but you also get away with more stuff. you might not carry games that you felt like you could've had you been some stronger role, but you will also find yourself getting carried in some games. also, if you're in lower elo and playing stuff like thresh/janna/etc (low damage supports) and think you should be climbing faster, try higher damage supports. not that those champs are bad, but utility champs get stronger with better players (both teammates and the player itself) and you can get a bit more of 'forceful carrying' on higher damage champs like bard, zyra, brand, etc. I hardly ever play utility supports when climbing lower elo. playing the higher damage supports are a much faster way to get to your actual elo.
I feel that to carry as a support you either have to smash to the other duo in lane or smash the other support in the vision game. The latter is not as evident (unless you look at your replays) but feels much more reliable. Fishing for kills with your top/mid/jg is important as well but you're likely to be decent at that if you're good at the vision game.
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It is extremely rare to win games because of vision as support in soloq tbh. Maybe if you abuse dynamic but otherwise vision is pretty fucking useless.
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How do I corki mid? Anything special I should know?
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is gold 5 being the highest rank you can achieve on your first season confirmed?
if faker played the 10 games with my account hed end up as gold 5?
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On April 03 2016 19:37 evilfatsh1t wrote:
is gold 5 being the highest rank you can achieve on your first season confirmed?
if faker played the 10 games with my account hed end up as gold 5?
For what it's worth, a friend of mine completed his first placement in S5 and ended up in platinium. He didn't even win them all if I'm not mistaken, and it was not a smurf either.
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oh shit. so i guess gold 5 isnt the highest then
did he solo queue or duo? ive heard this is also a factor in calibrating
im probably looking for the highest possible rank when solo queueing
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I think that if you've never played ranked before it uses normal MMR as some kind of starting point, but I'm not sure.
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On April 03 2016 21:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:
oh shit. so i guess gold 5 isnt the highest then
did he solo queue or duo? ive heard this is also a factor in calibrating
im probably looking for the highest possible rank when solo queueing
Alderiate, a French streamer, started a new on a fresh account. He went 10-0 in placement last month, all solo, and got placed gold 1.
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Italy12246 Posts
I've been watching and playing Dota for a while, and i feel like starting to watch a few League games once in a while because why not. I know of the very basic game differences like no tps, more "static" hero roles, no pulling/stacking in the jungle, but other than that i barely know League at all. Anything i should particularly pay attention to regarding mechanics and/or strategy that differ from Dota? Thanks! <3
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
AP is a thing, and so there are burst mages whose spells can scale and delete squishies 100-0 instantly toward midgame/endgame.
League items are more about building stats rather than building abilities. There are a few exceptions, like Zhonya's Hourglass and most support items, and nearly all completed items give some bonus outside of just raw stats, but for the most part the point of getting items is to get bigger stats.
Gameplay in general is a lot twitchier. Only one cc in the game is 3 seconds long, and it's a skillshot; no targeted cc lasts more than 2.5 seconds, and only after maxing that skill.
Cooldowns are a lot shorter, and you can buy cooldown reduction to make them even shorter. Some champions are mana gated, but for many champions, mana is only an issue in the early game, and some champions don't use mana at all (they might use their own health, and others are gated simply by cooldowns).
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On April 03 2016 22:44 Ansibled wrote:
I think that if you've never played ranked before it uses normal MMR as some kind of starting point, but I'm not sure.
doubt it because prior to playing ranked i was getting matched with golds-diamonds
my first ranked game was basically all silver, although at 3 wins 1 loss ive got golds in the game now.
also, as a dota player who also switched to lol heres what were big differences for me:
the powerspike you get at each lvlup from 2-6 is much more relevant than in dota. if you can hit lvl 2 first and force a trade, youre set to have a pretty damn comfortable lane already especially if youre at bot lane.
the items you buy are much 'smaller'. in dota its pretty common to save for big items, whereas in lol you usually want to be getting small cost effective items with each back, with the exception of some items like bf sword or nlr.
dodging skillshots plays a massive part of whether you win or lose lanes/fights. this in particular took a lot of time for me to get used to, partly because actively dodging skills is rare in dota and because it takes a long time for you to learn not only the champions and their skills, but the ability to predict when and where they will use it.
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On April 03 2016 21:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:
oh shit. so i guess gold 5 isnt the highest then
did he solo queue or duo? ive heard this is also a factor in calibrating
im probably looking for the highest possible rank when solo queueing
i think p5 is the highest. it's based on the mmr of the games you win
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On March 19 2016 04:38 Shiragaku wrote:
So I main support (I get that role almost 100 percent of the time) and my winrate is below 50 while having an average score of 1/6/17. I see my carry friends with good ratios usually come out of their games with wins, while I feel like I lose a lot. Is it something to do with my skill or is the myth that supports can't carry true? Or is my score most likely inflated with me having assist steals and my impact on the team is probably very little?
This is late, but didn't quite get answered all that well.
Short answer is twofold
1) Supports can be less impactful in this season. The biggest thing about winning games is a) whether or not you have a ZZrot advantage and b) whether or not your team can snowball a Herald pickup with a tower or two.
Bottom lane is a lot harder to snowball in general both because high peel supports are very common and hard engage supports fairly weak (except like Alistar) and because the extra trinkets make it a lot harder to gank. So its going to be harder to kill people in lane/deny them farm, harder to gank them when your jungler decides to show up, and less likely for that to happen.
The biggest thing you can do as a support then is basically to ensure that any roams bottom fail or roam yourself.
2) 1/6/17 is NOT a good average. Especially if you're playing a support with a lot of AoE. In a 5 man fight you pretty much are guaranteed to get a number of assists equal to the number of kills your team gets. So if you have a 5v5 and get aced 5 for 3? You get 3 assists and 1 death. Which is your KDA right there. That isn't winning.
Now this will move around during the game, since fights tend to be of different sizes. 0/1/3 at 10 minutes in an early skirmish? Wonderful, your AD and Jungler probably 3/0 combined. 0/6/18 at the end of the game? Not so wonderful. You had two team fight slight losses and were 0/4/10 before that, dying in every skirmish that took place. Only OK if your death means your teammates cleaned up. And that will not happen on average.
In my last 20 games* my KDA is 4.89. 2.6/4.1/17.2. 63% kill participation. This was worth a 55% win rate and frankly i am still dying too much. And more of my KDA is in kills which means i am generally making more plays. And all of the games were on low kill pressure supports (Karma plus 1 Soraka) so i was unlikely to get extra kills except what I made happen
Now you could be playing single target/single buff supports or champions but if you are Shiragaku on NA it looks like you're playing a lot of Bard and Leona. Leona is going to have a lot more deaths but both champions should have assists out the wazoo. So at least some weakness in your play is definitely showing up in your KDA.
*This includes a 1.8 KDA ezreal game that occurred because i was supposed to swap to Roka but Roka did not accept the trade. So i had full support runes/masteries and also was playing with someone who had no clue what they were doing. She started W and didn't build any AP D:
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
For supports especially, KDA is often misleading; a better calculation is DF, where kills are worth 2, assists worth 1, and deaths worth -3. By that metric you can see that a 1/6/17 scoreline is basically even and that your KDA isn't especially positive or negative.
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Kda is useless ignore it. Very often as support you walk into blitz hook or w/e to start a fight and you die but you get the good engage and win the teamfight.
Also as support you need to learn to make people focus you even if they don't have to which makes you die more but also makes it easier for your carries to do their job.
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On April 07 2016 02:14 nafta wrote:
Kda is useless ignore it. Very often as support you walk into blitz hook or w/e to start a fight and you die but you get the good engage and win the teamfight.
Also as support you need to learn to make people focus you even if they don't have to which makes you die more but also makes it easier for your carries to do their job.
Yea, but you rack up assists doing that, generally. And he isn't.
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kda in general is pretty meaningless per game, i think. Midlaners who go 10/1 early and end the game 10/3 by dying just before 2 important fights, grind my gears the most. Nice ratio, but he just blew the game. Meanwhile, a splitspusher can die a lot, but if his team takes all objectives on the other side of the map when he occupied enemies, he played fine. Supports can die for turrets, dragons or other objectives without it being a bad play.
Of course kda is correlated with performance. There is just no direct relation. I feel this discussion is dominated by black and white thinking.
Edit: @ goumindong's first post: I don't know about bard, but i do agree about your comments on leona, on average your kda should be quite high, as it's not very hard to get a lot of assists imo. (at last at my elo TT)
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On April 07 2016 03:56 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 02:14 nafta wrote:
Kda is useless ignore it. Very often as support you walk into blitz hook or w/e to start a fight and you die but you get the good engage and win the teamfight.
Also as support you need to learn to make people focus you even if they don't have to which makes you die more but also makes it easier for your carries to do their job. Yea, but you rack up assists doing that, generally. And he isn't.
Just because you don't get 5 assists doesn't mean you didnt win the fight wtf. I die all the time for an engage that catches 1 person and I die without getting other assists but we kill all 5 from it.
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EPT
