Introduction So, our old Lux guide is pretty old. And I needed to do something for a 1000th TL post, so this is what I decided to do. I hope it's well received.
I don't pretend to be a good player, I'm only at Silver II right now (although with Requizen's help it is going up!), but I've been playing Lux mid almost exclusively for probably my last 300 games, and I feel like I've gotten the hang of her. I would love comments from people who think the guide is crap, it will probably help make the guide better.
This guide is focused exclusively on Lux as a mid laner. I don't really do support with her, although I'd like to give it a serious try some day as I imagine the new season 3 support items make her a much better support than she was in season 2. Zyra feels straight up better than her to me though, in terms of support.
The alternate build gives you a little bit more defense, if you're fighting an enemy mid you have lots of trouble with. I will typically run it vs Leblanc, Fizz, Talon or Zed, or if I'm scared of the ganking combination between the mid and jungler. Switch the MR or Armor mastery depending on the enemy mid. I take the Defensive mastery upgrade because if I'm going to use that mastery page I'm also definitely going to run Barrier.
Any time I'm going up against a melee champion, I switch 2 points in Mental Force to Brute Force in the offense tree (example). Lux has a high base AD and doesn't really need the extra damage to last hit, but against a melee champion I find I harass with autoattacks a lot at levels 1-3, and the extra 3 AD gives her much better early harassment in this situation.
And obviously if you're going to take Ignite, drop a point in CDR for the Ignite upgrade. I don't like Ignite on Lux, but I'll get to that in the summoner spells section.
I have a bunch of slightly different rune pages that I run as Lux, based on what mid I'm going up against. I would highly suggest trying different options vs. different champions till you find what's right for you.
Standard: Flat Magic Penetration HP per level AP per level Flat AP
This page has a good mix of offense and defense. Pretty normal stuff.
MR setup 1: Flat Magic Penetration HP per level Flat MR Flat AP
This page trades some offense for some MR. I use it against champs with a lot of early burst damage, for example Fizz, Katarina, Leblanc, Brand, Syndra, etc.
MR setup 2: Flat Magic Penetration HP per level MR per level Flat AP
I use this page specifically against Akali and Diana. These two have a lot of burst damage, but can't set up their combos before level 6, so per level MR is more effective against them (it's better than the flat MR from level 9 and very similar 6-8). Also probably usable against Kassadin if you're having problems with Kass.
Regen setup: Flat Magic Penetration Flat Magic Regeneration AP per level Flat AP
I do not like regen seals on Lux, because while she has mana issues early game, once she gets an Athenes her regen issues pretty much disappear. However, I do run this setup against a mid who wants to try to sustain me out of lane, such as Chogath or maybe Soraka (lol Soraka mid). You're not in much danger of Cho killing you, but you have to keep your minions pushed because he will never leave the lane and any time you go back he's gonna take bites out of your tower.
Armor setup: Flat Magic Penetration Flat Armor AP per level Flat AP
Self explanatory, use this against an AD mid like Talon or Lee Sin or Khazix.
Flash: Mandatory for obvious reasons, it's Lux's only guaranteed escape mechanism. The only thing really in discussion is what to use for a second summoner.
Barrier: My new go-to favorite. Barrier blocks more damage than Ignite causes, is instant, and can be used while you're CC'd. It is amazing not only as a lifesaver, but also works really well for baiting kills. Remember that it only lasts 2 seconds so the precise timing of when you use it is important.
Teleport: Teleport is much better on Lux than you might think. The main problem with teleport on other champions is that in order to make teleporting to gank (or stop a gank) successful, the ward or minion you are teleporting to needs to be positioned pretty perfectly. Lux doesn't have this problem, with her ranges she only needs to be in the relative area of the battle to influence it with her spells. Her fast minion clear also lets her defend towers with it very successfully. While I like Barrier more now as a standard option, Teleport is probably worthwhile if you think the enemy team is going to focus on early ganks and/or split pushing (ex: Shaco jungler, TF mid) and you'll need to have more lane presence top and bot.
When taking Teleport I usually use the first teleport just to back and tele to lane and get a free mana bar at level 4 or so, which helps a lot with Lux's early game mana issues.
Remember that you can cancel Teleport during the cast time by hitting the button again, and it only goes on a 2/3rds cooldown.
Ignite: I think a lot of people will disagree with me in this regard, because I do not like Ignite on Lux. I think after level 6 most of your kills will be coming from outside Ignites range, and if you are close enough to the enemy champion that Ignite is giving you the kill, you're doing it wrong. In a pre-6 trade situation Barrier beats Ignite. However, I do like to take Ignite vs. Master Yi or Sion mid, because it's very hard to kill them without the heal debuff.
I don't think any other summoners are worth getting on Lux, although Heal and Exhaust are probably acceptible in place of Barrier. But I think Barrier is better.
I'm not going to go very in depth into what Lux's skills do, because it's not like you can't figure that out, but if you really want to you can look at her numbers in the spoilers.
The level order on her skills is very straightforward. E -> Q -> E -> W, then R>E>Q>W
In a couple situations I will change the early skill level order:
If we're planning on invading or if a level 1 teamfight starts, grab Q at level 1. The snare can ensure a kill. However, it's weaker for lane harassment than E at level one, so don't get it unless you're sure you can make it work. I used to insist on always getting E because I thought getting a level 1 kill from a Q was just too hard, and then I watched Froggen play Lux and decided I was an idiot.
Against Fizz or Talon I like to take W at level 3 instead of 4, because they have their full combo and will try to kill you at level 3, and you often need W to not die in that situation.
Lux's damaging spells charge any enemies with energy for 6 seconds. Lux's autoattacks or Final Spark will ignite the energy, dealing 10 + (10 x level) magic damage to the target.
Makes your autos do more damage if you hit somebody within 6 seconds of landing a spell. The ideal max-damage combo with Lux is to snare them, drop a singularity under them, laser them, autoattack, detonate the aoe, and then autoattack again. This gives you maximum burst damage and also guarantees that you laser while the target is still snared.
Your defensive shield. This shield is very strong but takes good timing to use correctly. It shields everyone it touches twice, once going out and once on the return (including you), so you want to time this so the first shield will be used up by the time the second one hits you. If you run towards the shield the second shield will land sooner, while if you run away from it it will lengthen the shield timing, both of which are important at the right times.
Shielding somebody with this will grant you assists even if they don't take any damage while shielded, so remember to use this to get an assist when you are otherwise too late to the party.
Good AoE, provides vision. Hitting the button again detonates the AoE. This will see into bushes quite a ways even if it just barely clips them. A couple cute notes I've seen with this skill: 1 - If you die while the AoE is on the ground, it will remain the full five seconds and then detonate. You cannot detonate it while CC'd. 2 - If you throw this on the ground, gain a level while it's on the ground, level E and then detonate it, it detonates as the higher level spell. 3 - The cooldown starts from when you cast it, not from when you detonate it. With 40% CDR if you let it stay on the ground the full 5 seconds you can cast it again almost immediately after it detonates. This trick makes it a lot easier to kill blue buff by yourself.
Self explanatory laser beam. This has a really low cooldown late game (24 seconds with max CDR), so don't be afraid in late game teamfights to use it just to poke people. If you get a snare, laser them. Make sure your initiator knows the difference between a poke laser and a start fighting now laser, I have lost games when my poke laser made my team initiate into a losing battle.
Lux's itemization is pretty straightforward, and aside from the opener hasn't changed much in season 3. I've been playing around with her in normals since the preseason patch trying to find the best opener, and I've decided with her range and her reliance on early game mana I do not like boots openings.
Opening: Crystalline Flask 2 health potions 1 mana potion
The logic here is simple. All these potions let you harass a lot more at low levels. Against an easier early lane matchup (say Kassadin) you can go for 1 health pot and 2 mana pots, or 1 health pot and a ward. But the idea is you want to start with a flask + some assortment of pots.
Early game core: Crystalline Flask Boots Chalice Fiendish Codex Buy 1-2 wards every back
The first rule of playing mid is you want to buy 1 or 2 wards every time you go back to base. Even though Lux is fairly safe and can reasonably lane okay without wards, a lot of the time your wards in mid will warn other lanes early for potential ganks, since the enemy mid and jungler will travel through them when roaming.
You want to get the Chalice first, for regen and to help you trade in lane when necessary. The Fiendish Codex is just a general cost effective buy for early AP/CDR. Boots are self explanatory, though if I only have enough gold for 1 item when I back I prefer to get the boots last.
If you are fighting against an AD mid, you want to get Seekers Armguard immediately after Chalice, and possibly the Cloth Armors before the Chalice.
Mid game core: Crystalline Flask Homeguard Sorcerors Shoes Deathcap Athenes Unholy Grail Buy 1-2 wards every back
The most cost effective way to get these items is Chalice -> Fiendish Codex -> Deathcap -> Finish Athenes. Get your boots whenever you start roaming and ganking.
Homeguard is by far the best boot enchantment for Lux, and you should never be getting anything else. It assists your mobility and roaming potential more than any other upgrade, just by saving you so much time getting back to lane after a recall.
Late game core: Homeguard Sorcerors Shoes Deathcap Athenes Unholy Grail Void Staff Fiendish Codex Seekers Armguard
After you have a hat and a grail, your options are more based on situation. Do you need armor to stay alive in teamfights? Get Seekers Armguard first. Is the enemy building MR? Get Void Staff first. Is the enemy not building any MR at all and you don't need armor? Get Fiendish Codex and then Void Staff.
A note: Why Athenes and not Tear into Seraphs Embrace? + Show Spoiler +
Basically, Lux's cooldowns are too long to stack Tear quickly, and she needs the CDR too much. If you're going to get a Seraphs Embrace you are going to have to get a DFG for CDR, which is going to be at least your third or maybe fourth major item. Lux isn't a fan of the range on the DFG active, and further, Lux's shields (W and barrier) make her want resistances more than more shields. Finally, just a Tear isn't really giving you enough mana while just a chalice is adequate.
I do not like Mejais, because I do not like to play risky. But it is more viable on Lux than other champions, because it's just so easy to not die on Lux with her range. If you're confident and have an early game advantage, it's not as risky of a play as it is on other APs.
If the game is going very poorly and you have to have more defense to not lose in the mid game, you can grab an early chain vest or negatron cloak, and upgrade it to Zhonyas / Abyssal Scepter when appropriate. You don't want an Abyssal Scepter, but there are games where you just have to get the MR to keep from dying, and the scepter is the only appropriate upgrade.
Finally, finish your DFG and Zhonyas in whatever order you feel appropriate for the game. Neither of these actives is completely ideal on Lux, but they aren't bad. You're mostly finishing these items for the big jump in AP they're giving.
Remember that blue elixirs are really good. I will typically grab them late game when I'm at 6 items and don't have enough gold to upgrade another item, or when either team has baron buff, since you know a fight will happen during the elixir period when somebody has baron.
Alternate items for specific matchups:
Quicksilver Sash vs. Malzahar or an especially ganky Warwick. I get QSS before Deathcap vs. Malzahar, try to have it by level 7 at the latest. Once you have QSS he pretty much cannot kill you.
Vs. Akali remember to grab a pink ward so you can drop it in her bubble when you're trying to kill her.
Morellonomicon isn't that great, but remember that it might be a requirement if the enemy team has a fed Tryndamere or something who cannot be killed because he's got too much lifesteal and nobody is igniting him. I've only ever built this once or twice but in the correct situation it is a gamechanger.
Lich Bane or Liandry's are acceptable alternates to DFG for a 5th item, but I tend to prefer the DFG these days, because it gives the most AP, and because the Fiendish Codex in the build path makes building it smoother than Liandry/Lich Bane.
Early game: It's important to have the mindset that in a normal matchup, Lux is an early game bully. She has a high base damage and her passive means after you clip them with a singularity you're guaranteed to win an autoattack trade afterwards. Try to get a feel for the way the enemy mid likes to dodge your skillshots. Most players will tend to dodge in one direction over the other most of the time, and doing some early harassment gets you a feel for where you want to plant your AoE's to compensate for them dodging when you're setting up mid game kills.
Your goal pre-6 is not to kill the enemy mid (although if you can then great!), your goal is more to force them out of lane and get a CS lead. You're probably not going to be getting kills till you're level 6 against a similarly skilled player.
Another important point to remember is that you are most vulnerable at level 3. At level 3 you don't have your shield yet, and you've probably won your lane at levels 1-2 so your minions are pushed up possibly all the way to the enemy tower, and right at about this time the enemy jungler is getting ready for his first gank. You need to be more map aware than usual at level 3. If I die pre-6 it's typically to a gank when I'm level 3.
Mid game: After level 6 you want to start playing a bit more passive, focus your E on helping you farm, and save Q and R for fights if one happens to occur. Lux is a good roamer and I like to play her as one, assist top and bot with your ult as much as you can. Ask your support or jungler to ward the enemy blue buff, as long as it's warded you're very good at stealing it or at least forcing the enemy jungler to smite it to deny the steal, which puts blue on their jungler instead of their mid.
I like to leave the opposing mid tower up as long as possible, so that I have more time to roam and farm. It's hard for Lux to farm if your team is all grouped up in mid and you have to have either blue buff or your Grail when long teamfights start, so extending the lane phase is important to maximize Lux's effectiveness.
Late game: Use E and Q to harass the enemy team. Lux is best when nobody is initiating and you are allowed to poke the enemy team.
If you get a good snare don't be afraid to laser even if it's only going to hit one person, the combo will likely get them down to half health and then when a fight does start the team can focus them and they'll go down fast.
In teamfights, try to stay as far back as possible. Your shield is best if it's hitting your whole team, and your defensive capabilities are all based on being far away from your opponents. Your illumination passive falls off late game as it doesn't scale with AP, so being in autoattack range in late game teamfights is not really so important. Use your snare to protect your AD Carry after the fight starts, not to get kills.
You should always be the last person on the team to die if things go south simply because you should be behind everyone. If you're getting picked off early, you're not doing it right.
I kind of want to make a video for this, but sadly I don't know how. CSing as Lux is not the most intuitive thing in the world, but she's good at it once you get the hang of it.
From level 5 (rank 3 singularity), your E plus an autoattack will kill caster minions. Typically the way you farm is to let the minion waves hit each other, then E only the caster minions, and auto them all down before illumination wears off. You can auto 4-5 things before the illumination debuff wears off. You don't want to E the whole wave because if you do, your minions will kill enemy melee minions while you're AAing the caster minions. You can use your ult to kill an entire wave before you recall, and it will be up again around the time you're back in lane.
If you're farming well and getting items fast enough, you'll get to a point in the mid game where your E one shots the caster minions. Then you can use it on the whole wave and auto down the melee minions. If you're not farming fast enough you'll get stuck in this aggravating position all game long where your E just barely doesn't kill things. It's pretty annoying.
There's a trick I learned from watching Froggen for mid game farming when your E doesn't quite one shot yet. Watch your minion waves and get an idea of where the enemy minion wave is in the fog of war, and drop an E on the ground just before they come in your vision range. Q the first two melee minions inside your singularity and the others will all clump up around it, letting you hit all 6 of them with the aoe. With enough CDR you can then drop a second E shortly after and kill all 6. This doesn't work very well if you don't have the CDR from blue buff.
Killing your blue buff is a lot easier if you let an E stay the whole five seconds so that you get a second E up right away. Don't be afraid to ult your blue buff to kill it faster if something dangerous is happening and you need to speed it up.
Before the new jungle changes, killing wraiths as Lux was very easy, but now it's pretty difficult, the positioning change of the big wraith screws her up a lot. The best way I've found is to drop an E on them, move over there, let the E go the whole 5 seconds and detonate, auto the big wraith and then E them again. This is much slower than it used to be and if somebody wants to post a more satisfying way to kill them I'm all ears.
Vs. Fizz/Leblanc/Talon These guys rely on early game kills and are very good at bursting you down, but are much weaker than you if they don't have a kill lead when big teamfights start. While you can go toe to toe with them at levels 1 and 2, starting from level 3 just play extremely safe. Farm from range and do not let them kill you.
Vs. Evelynn The important thing with Eve is just to be very vocal about communicating where she is. Keep as good an eye on her as you can and warn your other lanes any time you can't see her, because she's all about the ganks. If she's never in mid you can take your tower down early and then go full roam to stop her from ganking.
Vs. Akali/Diana These two are very weak pre-6 and very strong post-6. Be extremely aggressive before they hit 6 and try to hit 6 before they do. After 6, treat them like Fizz/Leblanc and just stay the hell away from them and farm.
Vs. Katarina The important thing to remember vs. Kat is that when she jumps on you she's typically fairly all in. Playing aggressive vs. her is good because if she Shunpos to dodge a skillshot then she can't dive on you for a little bit. If she does dive shield, snare, and walk away. (Remember that Shunpo drops her behind your model when aiming a snare) Don't flash until you see her use her ult. A lot of people say they have problems as Lux vs. Kat but I never do, and I think playing aggressive straight from level 1 is the key. What Kat wants is to dodge your skillshots while hitting you with bouncing blades until your health or mana is low enough that she can dive in for a kill. If you're harassing her and she's lower health than you are then she can't dive because she's all-in at that point and isn't guaranteed to survive.
Vs. Kassadin Kassadin isn't very hard, but the important trick is to be far enough away that if he wants to blink onto you he has to kind of walk towards you a ways to do it. This will telegraph his attacks in advance, and you want to W pre-emptively. If you're already shielded when he blinks in his burst isn't going to do as much as your counter-burst. Don't try to snare him until after he blinks or he will jump over it.
Vs. Ahri Be scared of Ahri at like the level 6-9 range and stay behind minions so she can't snare you. Ahri's combo at level 6 is devastating, but to kill you she really needs that snare. She's weak both early and late game, her power spike is right when she gets her ult.
Vs. Kennen I typically have a lot of trouble against a good Kennen. If you're at range he has to use an aggressive Flash to initiate with his ult, but if he does it's a fairly guaranteed kill. I haven't played against a Kennen since season 3 started, but I imagine Barrier will help against him a lot. I used to run Cleanse vs. Kennen so that if he flash-ulted on top of me I could cleanse the stun and flash away. I suppose the important point here is to be aware of if he has flash and his ult up, and play safe if you think he's going to all-in you.
Vs. Teemo Teemo's blind makes your autoattacks not proc your illumination passive, so don't try autoattack trades with Teemo. Just focus on clipping him with E and outfarming him. I have a lot of trouble fighting a good Teemo, but when I figure it out I'll let you know.
Enemy Mids that Lux is especially strong laning against:
Karthus
Anivia
Malzahar
Ryze
These guys all move slow, don't have the best long range poke or have weak early games, and don't have a way of dodging skillshots. You can bully them very effectively.
Note that Lux can play safe enough that I wouldn't say any champions really hard counter her, except possibly the ones that focus on abusing any enemy mid early game (Fizz, Leblanc, Talon). Her range is just so long that she's just as safe a choice as anybody against anybody, really.
Champs that synergize well with Lux:
Jayce
Caitlyn
Soraka
Maokai
Ezreal
All of these champs excell in poke comps. Caitlyn in particular has great synergy because your laser will grant her vision and let her land her own ult, and her traps last long enough for a free laser if you're quick.
Maokai and Jayce can poke but are also great at defending you when the enemy team tries to initiate. Soraka loves long drawn out poke wars because she can keep your team healed and at full mana fairly indefinitely.
Ezreal and Lux can do laser combos on a snared target that is typically a guaranteed kill, CLG EU always runs Ezreal and Lux together when they can.
Non-Mid Champs that are good vs. Lux:
Olaf
Irelia
Nocturne
Soraka
These champions don't really care that you snare them and try to stay at range. They can get on top of you anyway and once they're on top of you getting them off of you is incredibly difficult. I am especially afraid of Olaf, because while his ult is up I cannot stop him from killing me and have to rely on my team to kill him first. Irelia is easier to deal with unless she gets fed.
Nocturne is probably the best jungler for ganking Lux, if he ults onto you and your flash is down, it's a fairly guaranteed kill because he will spellshield your snare.
Soraka is good at countering your poke with her great heals and MR aura, but she's only a soft counter and not as big a deal as Olaf/Irelia/Nocturne.
Final Spark - Cooldown increased to 80/65/50 seconds from 80/60/40.
v1.0.0.151 - 2012-11-12 - Final Spark visual effects no longer appear at the wrong angle if aimed beyond the edge of the map
v1.0.0.142 - 2012-07-06
Base Mana Regen per 5 seconds increased to 6.6 from 5.6
Light Binding - Mana cost reduced to 50/60/70/80/90 from 60/75/90/105/120
Finales Funkeln - Mana cost reduced to 100 at all ranks from 100/150/200 - Cast range now displays on the mini-map
v1.0.0.138 - 2012-04-17
Fixed a bug where Lucent Singularity's cooldown was 11 seconds instead of 10
v1.0.0.135 - 2012-02-29
Lucent Singularity - Now additionally grants vision while in flight to its destination - Now starts its cooldown when cast rather than when detonated - Cooldown increased to 10 seconds from 9 - Now displays a buff showing how long Lucent Singularity will last until it automatically detonates
Finales Funkeln - Now grants vision of the affected area during the spell and vision of enemy champions hit for a short duration afterwards - Lux can no longer use Flash while casting Finales Funkeln
v1.0.0.131 - 2011-12-13
Prismatic Barrier - Shield strength increased to 80/105/130/155/180 from 60/85/110/135/160 - Missile speed increased to 1400 from 1200
Lucent Singularity - Cooldown reduced to 9 seconds from 11
v1.0.0.123 - 2011-08-09
Updated Lux's autoattack to feel more responsive and increased its missile speed
Light Binding - Cooldown reduced to 15/14/13/12/11 seconds from 16/15/14/13/12 seconds
v1.0.0.113 - 2011-03-15
Prismatic Barrier - Shield increased to 60/85/110/135/160 from 50/75/100/125/150
Final Spark - Ability power ratio reduced to .75 from .85
v1.0.0.109 - 2011-01-17
Fixed a bug that caused Lux to have 0 base mana regen
v1.0.0.105 - 2010-11-15
Prismatic Barrier - Missile width Increased 22% - Mana cost reduced to 60 from 75 - Fixed a bug where Prismatic Barrier was granting less ability power ratio than stated - Ability power ratio increased to .35 from .3
Lucent Singularity - Slow increased to 20/24/28/32/36 from 14/18/22/26/30 - Detonation radius increased to 350 from 300
Final Spark - now ignites the Illumination debuff if the target is afflicted by it and refreshes the Illumination debuff duration
v1.0.0.104 - 2010-11-02
Final Spark ability power ratio increased to .85 from .75
Born to the prestigious Crownguards, the paragon family of Demacian service, Luxanna was destined for greatness. She grew up as the family’s only daughter, and she immediately took to the advanced education and lavish parties required of families as high profile as the Crownguards. As Lux matured, it became clear that she was extraordinarily gifted. She could play tricks that made people believe they had seen things that did not actually exist. She could also hide in plain sight. Somehow, she was able to reverse engineer arcane magical spells after seeing them cast only once. She was hailed as a prodigy, drawing the affections of the Demacian government, military, and citizens alike.
As one of the youngest women to be tested by the College of Magic, she was discovered to possess a unique command over the powers of light. The young Lux viewed this as a great gift, something for her to embrace and use in the name of good. Realizing her unique skills, the Demacian military recruited and trained her in covert operations. She quickly became renowned for her daring achievements; the most dangerous of which found her deep in the chambers of the Noxian High Command. She extracted valuable inside information about the Noxus-Ionian conflict, earning her great favor with Demacians and Ionians alike. However, reconnaissance and surveillance was not for her. A light of her people, Lux's true calling was the League of Legends, where she could follow in her brother’s footsteps and unleash her gifts as an inspiration for all of Demacia.
Hi I picked up Lux last month and went on a complete rampage, wrecking everything in my path, until I played vs an Ori and basically got 2 shot from level 2 on. Does anyone have any insight as to how to play vs her?
One really annoying thing I found about playing against a Lux is that in late game she can clear an entire wave with her ultimate and repeat indefinitely because minion waves spawns every 30 seconds and she can easily get her ult to have lower than 30 seconds cooldown. It's just as abusive as Anivia.
Also I guess everyone forgot about her already, but imo Ahri is a very strong counterpick against Lux. It's so hard to deal with Ahri's lvl 6 all-in.
On December 09 2012 11:17 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Hi I picked up Lux last month and went on a complete rampage, wrecking everything in my path, until I played vs an Ori and basically got 2 shot from level 2 on. Does anyone have any insight as to how to play vs her?
Stay the fuck away from the ball. The ball is no mans land. Do not touch the ball.
Ori is very strong in teamfights and safe in lane, but she doesn't have Lux's range. Try to force poke wars and get your team to not just charge straight in before you soften the enemy team up a little.
On December 09 2012 11:25 Sufficiency wrote: Also I guess everyone forgot about her already, but imo Ahri is a very strong counterpick against Lux. It's so hard to deal with Ahri's lvl 6 all-in.
Funny you say that, just started playing lux and first game I go vs ahri mid. When she goes to all in me I land a Q on her mid dash and kill her. Just gotta have the skillz/luck.
On December 09 2012 11:25 Sufficiency wrote: Also I guess everyone forgot about her already, but imo Ahri is a very strong counterpick against Lux. It's so hard to deal with Ahri's lvl 6 all-in.
Funny you say that, just started playing lux and first game I go vs ahri mid. When she goes to all in me I land a Q on her mid dash and kill her. Just gotta have the skillz/luck.
There is a 2k+ elo guy on Europe West who claimed in a guide that Ahri is an easy lane for Lux (one of the solomid guides, I am too lazy to look). I am really, REALLY skeptical of that. While it's always possible to outplay your opponent by landing the Q, the rooms for error for Lux is tiny compared to Ahri's (even if Lux's Q lands, Ahri can disrupt Lux's combo with Charm). It kinds of reminds me of Janna vs Soraka.
EDIT: I don't understand why so many people recommend skilling E first at level 1. I always feel Q is better at level 1 in every regard.
1. Q and E at level 1 have the same base damage 2. You are not realistically going to try to clear waves or last hit with E at level 1 3. Sets up for lvl 1 jungler gank / prevents lvl 1 jungler gank due to stronger CC
On December 09 2012 17:43 Sufficiency wrote: I don't understand why so many people recommend skilling E first at level 1. I always feel Q is better at level 1 in every regard.
1. Q and E at level 1 have the same base damage 2. You are not realistically going to try to clear waves or last hit with E at level 1 3. Sets up for lvl 1 jungler gank / prevents lvl 1 jungler gank due to stronger CC
I'm inclined to agree with you, but if you go straight to standard laning - no lvl1 shenanigans - E is a better choice as it lets you harass early, setting up a stronger level 2-6. That said, you have to take Q lvl1 if you want any kill potential.
I used to always take Q just because it gave a really strong leash/counterinvade, but now its more debatable since the leashing changes.
On December 09 2012 17:43 Sufficiency wrote: I don't understand why so many people recommend skilling E first at level 1. I always feel Q is better at level 1 in every regard.
1. Q and E at level 1 have the same base damage 2. You are not realistically going to try to clear waves or last hit with E at level 1 3. Sets up for lvl 1 jungler gank / prevents lvl 1 jungler gank due to stronger CC
I'm inclined to agree with you, but if you go straight to standard laning - no lvl1 shenanigans - E is a better choice as it lets you harass early, setting up a stronger level 2-6. That said, you have to take Q lvl1 if you want any kill potential.
I used to always take Q just because it gave a really strong leash/counterinvade, but now its more debatable since the leashing changes.
I guess for harassing lane opponent E is better at level 1, although personally I don't usually harass with abilities at level 1 for most mid laners because I find it mana inefficient.
I think it's important to harass with Lux at level 1. Unless you're fighting somebody like Brand who is also a pretty big early bully, your level 1 is stronger than theirs is and you should make use of that time. Hit them with an E, while they have Illumination on them run up to them, make them pull back to avoid a 73 damage auto and miss a CS.
Another way to look at it is if you're not harassing at level 1, you're going to sit at full mana for a little bit, which is wasted mana regen and not efficient. You want to be at below 100% mana at all times so you can regen.
Realistically though, it's not going to make a huge difference, because you're only gonna toss one or maybe two E's before level 2 and then you've got both skills and why did we argue about it.
One advantage of taking E when you aren't invading is it gives you a lot of scouting for enemy invades. With the build setup I've listed you can throw one at 1:00 and another at 1:20 and still have full mana when blue/red buff spawn. I like to use these two to check bushes for possible schenanigans.
I also think E is actually stronger for a straight up level 1 teamfight because you can hit their whole team with it, since those fights are often clumped up in the jungle. Q is only stronger if you're trying to pick off somebody out of position and secure a gank.
As for Ahri, I've never found her too difficult, but with her kit I can see her being theoretically very strong in the hands of a good player. Maybe I haven't met that guy yet.
On December 09 2012 11:25 Sufficiency wrote: Also I guess everyone forgot about her already, but imo Ahri is a very strong counterpick against Lux. It's so hard to deal with Ahri's lvl 6 all-in.
Funny you say that, just started playing lux and first game I go vs ahri mid. When she goes to all in me I land a Q on her mid dash and kill her. Just gotta have the skillz/luck.
There is a 2k+ elo guy on Europe West who claimed in a guide that Ahri is an easy lane for Lux (one of the solomid guides, I am too lazy to look). I am really, REALLY skeptical of that. While it's always possible to outplay your opponent by landing the Q, the rooms for error for Lux is tiny compared to Ahri's (even if Lux's Q lands, Ahri can disrupt Lux's combo with Charm). It kinds of reminds me of Janna vs Soraka.
EDIT: I don't understand why so many people recommend skilling E first at level 1. I always feel Q is better at level 1 in every regard.
1. Q and E at level 1 have the same base damage 2. You are not realistically going to try to clear waves or last hit with E at level 1 3. Sets up for lvl 1 jungler gank / prevents lvl 1 jungler gank due to stronger CC
Lux rapes Ahri so hard it's ridiculous. I've played it on the Ahri side against a good Lux and it was completely impossible to do anything to them outside of all-in at level 6 while they harass you constantly for huge amounts of damage with passive procs. Your spellvamp isn't enough to sustain and you have serious mana issues. Your range is just short enough to be always within Lux's e distance when you go in to last hit and only one of your spells can hit her when she stands in the middle of the wave and zones you. Ganks are hard to hit because Lux is so proficient at escaping and her range is absurd so even when she's extended it's usually only to about half lane. Lux crushes Ahri really hard in my experience.
I really like building a chalice into Liandry's on her. E is super easy to land for the burn. And mpen is always nice. But I'm bad so don't listen to me. I just think Liandry's is a fun item.
On December 09 2012 11:25 Sufficiency wrote: Also I guess everyone forgot about her already, but imo Ahri is a very strong counterpick against Lux. It's so hard to deal with Ahri's lvl 6 all-in.
Funny you say that, just started playing lux and first game I go vs ahri mid. When she goes to all in me I land a Q on her mid dash and kill her. Just gotta have the skillz/luck.
There is a 2k+ elo guy on Europe West who claimed in a guide that Ahri is an easy lane for Lux (one of the solomid guides, I am too lazy to look). I am really, REALLY skeptical of that. While it's always possible to outplay your opponent by landing the Q, the rooms for error for Lux is tiny compared to Ahri's (even if Lux's Q lands, Ahri can disrupt Lux's combo with Charm). It kinds of reminds me of Janna vs Soraka.
EDIT: I don't understand why so many people recommend skilling E first at level 1. I always feel Q is better at level 1 in every regard.
1. Q and E at level 1 have the same base damage 2. You are not realistically going to try to clear waves or last hit with E at level 1 3. Sets up for lvl 1 jungler gank / prevents lvl 1 jungler gank due to stronger CC
Lux rapes Ahri so hard it's ridiculous. I've played it on the Ahri side against a good Lux and it was completely impossible to do anything to them outside of all-in at level 6 while they harass you constantly for huge amounts of damage with passive procs. Your spellvamp isn't enough to sustain and you have serious mana issues. Your range is just short enough to be always within Lux's e distance when you go in to last hit and only one of your spells can hit her when she stands in the middle of the wave and zones you. Ganks are hard to hit because Lux is so proficient at escaping and her range is absurd so even when she's extended it's usually only to about half lane. Lux crushes Ahri really hard in my experience.
One thing to add is that Lux W absorbs an absurd amount of damage. It's 160 base at at rank 1, meaning she will probably survive Ahris all-in.
On December 10 2012 19:23 RagequitBM wrote: I really like building a chalice into Liandry's on her. E is super easy to land for the burn. And mpen is always nice. But I'm bad so don't listen to me. I just think Liandry's is a fun item.
Are you kidding man I totally agree with you!
I always rush the sorc boots, then haunting guise. I try to use my E sparingly and generally it's enough to stay in lane from level 1-6.
liandry is a ridiculously good item on lux because it's proc'd by two of her spells + mpen + damage it's SO good lol. ^^
Ahri can do a lot of damage inside her 1 second charm duration. As long as you see it coming and shield and back out you're okay, but if you think you're safe in the middle of your minions at half health when she hits 6 you're pretty dead.
Liandry's is fine on Lux, but not as a first major item.
Comparing it to a Deathcap, it's 50 less AP, plus doesn't have the Deathcap passive which is giving you another 30-40 AP or so when you first get it. 80 more AP is 48 more damage on an E. Since Liandry only procs a 2.5% burn on a singularity (multi target, doesn't count as slowing), in order for that to be 48 damage, the target would have to have about 2000 current health, which realistically means their max health would have to be 2500-3000.
The health and spell pen on Liandry is nice, but I don't think it's good as a first major item. If you're hooked on the thing, get a Haunting Guise, then the Deathcap, then upgrade the Guise to Liandrys later on when everybody is level 18 and has a lot of HP.
As an aside, I'm testing out a new item order to see if it feels more fluid than Chalice -> Deathcap -> Athenes, if anybody wants to test it with me and see if it feels better.
Trying the following: Chalice -> NLR -> Fiendish Codex -> Sell flask for Blasting Wand or go straight to Deathcap -> Deathcap -> Athenes
I still always prefer Mejais Soulstealer on Lux if I can land an early lane advantage. Her long range makes her safe and shielding teammates with her AoE is a great way to pick up many assists.
Yeah I played Ahri vs a Lux yesterday and it was pretty much a nightmare until level 6 and even then it only got better because we'd both wave clear and roam, usually one of us following the other. Her level 2 she landed her root on me and it forced my flash or else I was dead, pretty scary. Same in the mid game, her whole combo brought me to about 20% and at that point you just have to back.
With Ahri I like to be aggressive in lane and try to auto attack the enemy champion as much as possible because if they ever step away from the minions so you can land your E you can do tons of damage. Even at level 2 with only 1 point in Q and E you can still truck them hard if they get hit by it. Unfortunately, Lux dominates early so it doesn't allow you to really do that.
End game I feel they both are strong. Ahri can dive in and out and do tons of consistent damage. Yet lux has the range and safety and yeah, using that Ult every 24 seconds is completely broken.
On December 11 2012 02:12 Sermokala wrote: anyone got any tips for a madlife style support lux?
Don't know about Madlife's style, but generally land Q, throw E behind to zone, auto, detonate E when you feel you should and don't be afraid to KS with ulti. Skill is R>W>E>Q, taking Q, E, W at first levels.
Does he really max his shield first? I figure as a lux lane you're not trying to shield damage to sustain in lane but you should level up your damage skills to win the poke wars to be able to win your lane. Usually I only get 1 point in shield and keep it that way until Q and E are maxed. Some games I've Max Q first just to get it a shorter cooldown and it's less mana then your E so you can spam it more often. Some games I Max E first just because it's much more reliable damage. Maybe I'm just a bad lux support but I feel you're much more scary in lane if the enemy fears you, rather then doing mediocre damage but giving that bigger shield.
I'd either go QWEQQR, R > Q > E > W or I'd go QWEEER, R > E > Q> W
I don't think I'd ever max shield first as support though...
Added bits on Mejai's Soulstealer, how to play against Ahri, mids she typically beats fairly easily, and a video of Madlife on support Lux. Looks like Madlife maxes E first.
Edit: Actually, in the video he goes Q E W E W R. Kinda interesting. The damage on the second level of E is almost double the first level so maybe he gets E to level 2 and then maxes W?
On December 11 2012 03:08 SidianTheBard wrote: Does he really max his shield first? I figure as a lux lane you're not trying to shield damage to sustain in lane but you should level up your damage skills to win the poke wars to be able to win your lane. Usually I only get 1 point in shield and keep it that way until Q and E are maxed. Some games I've Max Q first just to get it a shorter cooldown and it's less mana then your E so you can spam it more often. Some games I Max E first just because it's much more reliable damage. Maybe I'm just a bad lux support but I feel you're much more scary in lane if the enemy fears you, rather then doing mediocre damage but giving that bigger shield.
I'd either go QWEQQR, R > Q > E > W or I'd go QWEEER, R > E > Q> W
I don't think I'd ever max shield first as support though...
/shrug
Yes I go QWEEER as support, the shield is also a skill shot, and for some reason I have a harder time reading my teammates movements than my opponents. E is great for long range harass and checking/clearing bushes which I really like.
Also as far as the Mid Lux is concerned why is chalice a must item? I usually prefer to build more damage and rely on blue buff for my mana regen needs. I must say though if I for some reason don't get blue buff, things kind of suck.
I like maxxing W first because it's a flat mana cost for a shield that gets better with level. Lux Q is like Blitz grab: great CC, decent damage, but really heavy mana cost and cooldown. My thought process is that these skill shot types are great when you can land them, but the mere threat of them is good as well. W means you outtrade, and you can depend on passive procs to add damage to your combo.
IMO: Chalice first on mid-lux is so I can spam my E to push/farm the lane and get a little harassment in when possible. Being able to push the lanes then roam is great since your Ult can gank bot/top outside of the enemies ward coverage. After harassment I want to have enough mana to finish off my opponent when I land my snare.
Other reasons: 1) I start Flask + Farie Charm + 2 pots so the charm builds quickly into Chalice. 2) I use Flat mana regen seals which also synergize well with % increase from Chalice. 3) I am going to upgrade the Chalice anyway for the CDR% mid/late game. 4) Blue buff is not perfectly reliable; its not always active, can be stolen by the enemy, is lost upon death, and I like to let mana heavy junglers (Amumu) have it early game when they are on my team.
On December 11 2012 04:12 YouGotNothin wrote: Also as far as the Mid Lux is concerned why is chalice a must item? I usually prefer to build more damage and rely on blue buff for my mana regen needs. I must say though if I for some reason don't get blue buff, things kind of suck.
If you're not constantly out of mana with just a chalice and no blue buff, you aren't harassing the enemy mid enough.
Which means if you don't have a chalice, you don't have enough mana to harass the enemy mid as much as you're supposed to.
Further, with no chalice you don't have enough mana to do wraiths.
Additionally, you can think of the MR chalice gives as being like bonus damage vs. the enemy mid. If you two are trading and he has 25 AP and you have 25 MR, you're going to win if all else is equal.
Wow. I've been fiddling with support lux a bit and shes an extremely werid but fun mix between a taric and a sona. The reasoning behind maxing w first I think is the fact that its mana cost doesn't go up with levels. That means that you do have to trigger the passive on people or your damage will be pretty lackluster.
That being said she had insane range and wicked bush abuse. Trades are really hard to win against her and she can really scale well to the late game with silly poke ability and initate.
So after playing Lux alot, I've come to the conclusion that Athenes is garbage on her, morellos is amazing, and build pure damage (deathcap/void/morello's) is the best way to go for both support and mid Lux. (support lux you get a sightstone first).
When you invest into a Chalice it makes your earlygame so much less scary, as instead with a blasting wand you can very nearly 100-0 most mids.
Building pure damage also makes it so your shield shields for alot more, and when you catch someone you can actually kill them.
For mana regen, I use flat mp5 yellows, the mp5 from util tier 1, and start with flask faerie and just sit on the faerie until I build Morellos.
On January 02 2013 04:20 dae wrote: So after playing Lux alot, I've come to the conclusion that Athenes is garbage on her, morellos is amazing, and build pure damage (deathcap/void/morello's) is the best way to go for both support and mid Lux. (support lux you get a sightstone first).
When you invest into a Chalice it makes your earlygame so much less scary, as instead with a blasting wand you can very nearly 100-0 most mids.
Building pure damage also makes it so your shield shields for alot more, and when you catch someone you can actually kill them.
For mana regen, I use flat mp5 yellows, the mp5 from util tier 1, and start with flask faerie and just sit on the faerie until I build Morellos.
I can't really jump to any conclusions since I'd need to do testing first, but I kind of feel the same way about Chalice. I feel like 60 AP for 2800 gold is pretty iffy. Yea, the spammability is nice, but if I can get sufficient mana without chalice, I'd definitely like to avoid building it since Morello's provides much better stats. You get 15 more AP, 5% more CDR, Grievous Wounds, and build out of Kage's for 600 gold less. Once lane ends, I'd rather have Morello's than Athene's.
I don't know, I like the idea of skipping chalice, I'd just have to see how it works since I've basically been going chalice every game on Lux. The MR is nice though.
On January 02 2013 04:20 dae wrote: So after playing Lux alot, I've come to the conclusion that Athenes is garbage on her, morellos is amazing, and build pure damage (deathcap/void/morello's) is the best way to go for both support and mid Lux. (support lux you get a sightstone first).
When you invest into a Chalice it makes your earlygame so much less scary, as instead with a blasting wand you can very nearly 100-0 most mids.
Building pure damage also makes it so your shield shields for alot more, and when you catch someone you can actually kill them.
For mana regen, I use flat mp5 yellows, the mp5 from util tier 1, and start with flask faerie and just sit on the faerie until I build Morellos.
I can't really jump to any conclusions since I'd need to do testing first, but I kind of feel the same way about Chalice. I feel like 60 AP for 2800 gold is pretty iffy. Yea, the spammability is nice, but if I can get sufficient mana without chalice, I'd definitely like to avoid building it since Morello's provides much better stats. You get 15 more AP, 5% more CDR, Grievous Wounds, and build out of Kage's for 600 gold less. Once lane ends, I'd rather have Morello's than Athene's.
I don't know, I like the idea of skipping chalice, I'd just have to see how it works since I've basically been going chalice every game on Lux. The MR is nice though.
If you have to back alot, flask is pretty much enough mana. I really havnt had a game where I didnt get any blues though, so it's hard to say what that would feel like.
The amount of flat mp5 i have at lvl 1 is pretty strong, plus flask gives alot of mana.
That's an interesting idea. I'll have to give it a try.
Just looking at it from a numbers standpoint, Athenes appears to be much better on paper.
It's 60 AP vs 75 AP, but the additional 40 MR will make up for it in a trading scenario vs. the enemy mid.
The 5% extra CDR is not going to be used all the time because it will overlap with blue buff and etc. It's not bad but not super desirable either.
The Morello's passive proc will obviously be much better vs. some team compositions than others. I imagine it's either extremely effective or somewhat irrelevant depending on the game.
With the regen Seals they've got roughly the same MP5 not counting Athenes passive, but that means you can't get HP/level Seals and are missing out on 175 HP.
So basically the differences we're talking about are the following:
With Athenes +40 MR +175 HP +Athenes Passive
With Morellos +15 AP +5% CDR (Will take you over cap with blue buff) +Morellos Passive
A big saving grace though would definitely be the cheaper cost to Morellos, which will get you into your mid game dominating phase a minute or two earlier, which is really where Lux shines the most.
I am interested and I will try it out. What masteries/summoners/etc do you use?
On January 02 2013 08:44 Ketara wrote: That's an interesting idea. I'll have to give it a try.
Just looking at it from a numbers standpoint, Athenes appears to be much better on paper.
It's 60 AP vs 75 AP, but the additional 40 MR will make up for it in a trading scenario vs. the enemy mid.
The 5% extra CDR is not going to be used all the time because it will overlap with blue buff and etc. It's not bad but not super desirable either.
The Morello's passive proc will obviously be much better vs. some team compositions than others. I imagine it's either extremely effective or somewhat irrelevant depending on the game.
With the regen Seals they've got roughly the same MP5 not counting Athenes passive, but that means you can't get HP/level Seals and are missing out on 175 HP.
So basically the differences we're talking about are the following:
With Athenes +40 MR +175 HP +Athenes Passive
With Morellos +15 AP +5% CDR (Will take you over cap with blue buff) +Morellos Passive
A big saving grace though would definitely be the cheaper cost to Morellos, which will get you into your mid game dominating phase a minute or two earlier, which is really where Lux shines the most.
I am interested and I will try it out. What masteries/summoners/etc do you use?
Trading scenarios with the other mid are irrelevant - either you hit a snare and get a shitton of damage for free, or you dont and you just e harass - lux outranges pretty much every mid.
The extra damage from deathcap first does way better in trades then athenes.
Its also not 1-1 comparision, because you would usually get athenes first, and morellos is always 3rd (or 2nd if they have literally 0 mr on their team) item. the fact that morellos is so cheap to build already having 200g of it from level 1, an the rest of it being almost as cheap as void staff just makes it flow so easily.
Runes are just mr/mp5/magic pen/flat ap quints, masteries 21/0/9.
What I like most about this is that right around the Fiendish Codex stage if I am forced to back a little strapped for cash, I can get parts of the Fiendish Codex instead of sitting on 500-600 gold. If I have just enough gold to finish the Deathcap (the diff between that 4k and 4.3k) I'll get the Deathcap, though.
I tried a game with Morellos, and just found myself very vulnerable. I ran out of mana whenever I didn't have blue buff even with the MP5 Seals and Morellos, which cost me at least one kill, and I could feel not having the early MR.
I got Morellos second though instead of third.
I will do some more testing, but I do want everybody to know that when you do go Athenes, don't get Athenes first anymore. Sit on that Chalice.
It'd be really nice if Athenes had like, 10-15 more AP, and less regen. It really does give Lux more regen than she needs. But she does need quite a bit.
On December 11 2012 04:19 ticklishmusic wrote: I like maxxing W first because it's a flat mana cost for a shield that gets better with level. Lux Q is like Blitz grab: great CC, decent damage, but really heavy mana cost and cooldown. My thought process is that these skill shot types are great when you can land them, but the mere threat of them is good as well. W means you outtrade, and you can depend on passive procs to add damage to your combo.
The funny thing about your analogy is that you actually do max Q first on Blitz.
Does anyone have any real info on how madlife plays support Lux? Maxing W seems really stupid because they're never going to break both parts of the shield anyway so you might as well put out more damage.
I doubt there are any videos on the internets of Madlife S3 support Lux, unless somebody can dig one out of the OGN broadcasts or something? No clue, but if somebody can find me a game to watch I'll go through it and figure his build out best I can.
all I know is that he max's shield first but gets a second level of e at level 4 because its a double damage levelup and shield's mana cost stays flat with its cooldown and shield amount going up per level.
But yeah just throw your shit and yell madlife when you support with lux.
This is a little off topic, but I looked at your lolking prof, and you have like 95% games with lux. How do you manage to get mid every game in ranked? Im around 1350 elo, and 3/5 people ask for mid almost every game.
On December 11 2012 01:41 Ketara wrote: As an aside, I'm testing out a new item order to see if it feels more fluid than Chalice -> Deathcap -> Athenes, if anybody wants to test it with me and see if it feels better.
Trying the following: Chalice -> NLR -> Fiendish Codex -> Sell flask for Blasting Wand or go straight to Deathcap -> Deathcap -> Athenes
Here's my build, it's very fluent (i feel).
- 3x health, boots (needs no explanation) - 2x dorans (gives you that extra AP and lane sustain that you need into the mid-game)
Depending on situation i go Boots of Lucidity/Sorc. If i am far ahead and feel comfortable i'll rush XXL wand then go boots afterwards. My main argument is basicly that if your winning lane without boots why do you need to rush them? - Rabodans Deathcap (depending on how the game goes i'll go straight to the XXL wand) - Morellonomicon
From here on and out i usually choose items based on my opponents and situation: Lichbane, Zhonya Hourglass, Spirit Visage, Voidstaff, Liandry
On December 11 2012 01:41 Ketara wrote: As an aside, I'm testing out a new item order to see if it feels more fluid than Chalice -> Deathcap -> Athenes, if anybody wants to test it with me and see if it feels better.
Trying the following: Chalice -> NLR -> Fiendish Codex -> Sell flask for Blasting Wand or go straight to Deathcap -> Deathcap -> Athenes
Here's my build, it's very fluent (i feel).
- 3x health, boots (needs no explanation) - 2x dorans (gives you that extra AP and lane sustain that you need into the mid-game)
Depending on situation i go Boots of Lucidity/Sorc. If i am far ahead and feel comfortable i'll rush XXL wand then go boots afterwards. My main argument is basicly that if your winning lane without boots why do you need to rush them? - Rabodans Deathcap (depending on how the game goes i'll go straight to the XXL wand) - Morellonomicon
From here on and out i usually choose items based on my opponents and situation: Lichbane, Zhonya Hourglass, Spirit Visage, Voidstaff, Liandry
Lux has pretty much carried me to 2100 elo.
First off, boots 3 is a vastly inferior start to flask/faerie/2 pots as it will straight up lose to any1 that goes flask.
Secondly, Lux is a very safe laner with her shield, slow, snare, and ranged farming, meaning you really do not need to get 2 dorans, and can instead go straight for late game items.
Third, I'd honestly never get cdr boots on mid Lux as you will get max cdr from morellos blue in the midgame and morellos dfg in the late game (I get dfg for the ap and cdr, and it helps kill tanks that get to you.)
Fourth, Void staff should almost always be your 2nd or 3rd big item as I believe it gives the most burst damage to your combo per gold, as long as you have a decent amount of ap already, as well as going very well with sorcs.
The entire idea of my build of rushing deathcap/void/morellos is to be a constant threat throughout the early midgame and lategame, to the point where if you catch their mid/ad/squishy support/squishy jungle in a snare you should be able to 100-0 them.
Mana is a bit of an issue if you can't get blues, but saving your mana for farming (when you need to) and/or catching people and bursting them down, instead of spamming e at them in lane, works pretty well. You also get ALOT of mana from flask.
Lux is pretty much the one ap that I think can get away with building 0 hp/mr/armor as her ranges are incredible, as well as her shield, snare, and slow give you alot of active defense. the more ap you get, the scarier you are for the other team and the stronger your shield is for teamfights.
Edit: I've also been running ignite alot for lane dominance, with the one exception is tp for tf as its hard to catch him in lane and being able to follow his first ult and stop the snowball is huge.
Edit 2: Also, if the other team has any kind of aoe teamcomp, unless your qing to try and catch someone be WAY behind your team so that you don't get caught in the aoe and instead can shield and burst the aoe'ers.
Edit 3: Also, Wards, buy wards, lots of wards, and ward places where people walk by bushes/cliffs where you can catch them from.
On December 11 2012 01:41 Ketara wrote: As an aside, I'm testing out a new item order to see if it feels more fluid than Chalice -> Deathcap -> Athenes, if anybody wants to test it with me and see if it feels better.
Trying the following: Chalice -> NLR -> Fiendish Codex -> Sell flask for Blasting Wand or go straight to Deathcap -> Deathcap -> Athenes
Here's my build, it's very fluent (i feel).
- 3x health, boots (needs no explanation) - 2x dorans (gives you that extra AP and lane sustain that you need into the mid-game)
Depending on situation i go Boots of Lucidity/Sorc. If i am far ahead and feel comfortable i'll rush XXL wand then go boots afterwards. My main argument is basicly that if your winning lane without boots why do you need to rush them? - Rabodans Deathcap (depending on how the game goes i'll go straight to the XXL wand) - Morellonomicon
From here on and out i usually choose items based on my opponents and situation: Lichbane, Zhonya Hourglass, Spirit Visage, Voidstaff, Liandry
Lux has pretty much carried me to 2100 elo.
First off, boots 3 is a vastly inferior start to flask/faerie/2 pots as it will straight up lose to any1 that goes flask.
Secondly, Lux is a very safe laner with her shield, slow, snare, and ranged farming, meaning you really do not need to get 2 dorans, and can instead go straight for late game items.
Third, I'd honestly never get cdr boots on mid Lux as you will get max cdr from morellos blue in the midgame and morellos dfg in the late game (I get dfg for the ap and cdr, and it helps kill tanks that get to you.)
Fourth, Void staff should almost always be your 2nd or 3rd big item as I believe it gives the most burst damage to your combo per gold, as long as you have a decent amount of ap already, as well as going very well with sorcs.
The entire idea of my build of rushing deathcap/void/morellos is to be a constant threat throughout the early midgame and lategame, to the point where if you catch their mid/ad/squishy support/squishy jungle in a snare you should be able to 100-0 them.
Mana is a bit of an issue if you can't get blues, but saving your mana for farming (when you need to) and/or catching people and bursting them down, instead of spamming e at them in lane, works pretty well. You also get ALOT of mana from flask.
Lux is pretty much the one ap that I think can get away with building 0 hp/mr/armor as her ranges are incredible, as well as her shield, snare, and slow give you alot of active defense. the more ap you get, the scarier you are for the other team and the stronger your shield is for teamfights.
Edit: I've also been running ignite alot for lane dominance, with the one exception is tp for tf as its hard to catch him in lane and being able to follow his first ult and stop the snowball is huge.
Edit 2: Also, if the other team has any kind of aoe teamcomp, unless your qing to try and catch someone be WAY behind your team so that you don't get caught in the aoe and instead can shield and burst the aoe'ers.
Edit 3: Also, Wards, buy wards, lots of wards, and ward places where people walk by bushes/cliffs where you can catch them from.
TY for a good answer, regarding:
Secondly, Lux is a very safe laner with her shield, slow, snare, and ranged farming, meaning you really do not need to get 2 dorans, and can instead go straight for late game items
Why do you think so? What are the mechanics? I dont understand. I usually go 2xHealth, 1xMana + Boots.
TY for a good answer, regarding: Secondly, Lux is a very safe laner with her shield, slow, snare, and ranged farming, meaning you really do not need to get 2 dorans, and can instead go straight for late game items Why do you think so? What are the mechanics? I dont understand. I usually go 2xHealth, 1xMana + Boots.
I was making the point that unlike some other midlaners, Lux does not need to buy dorans rings in order to win lane/lane safely. Even if you get behind on Lux, the fact that you can e->r to farm an entire lane, or just spam e at the wave to farm from your tower means that the lack of beefiness never really will stop you from farming.
In addition, building deathcap over the dorans means that when you do land a snare, you are more likely to have the damage to turn it into a kill, rather then them getting away with a sliver of hp. Ignite helps with this as well. Unlike other mids where you have to eat damage while damaging their mid, lux outranges pretty much every mid so that you don't have to risk yourself to try and get snares/e poke
One exception is when your vs some bullshit ad mid like lee, talon, or khazix, you will probably need to buy a chainvest pretty early just so that you don't get 100-0'd. Ahri is also annoying, and if you are not confident in q'ing her after her first ult jump you will need to get a negatron to not feed.
For starting items, since they changed boots to just 25 ms, the movespeed difference between a champion with boots and without boots isnt really that big, and lux has high base ms anyways, so it is much better just to start with the health and mana regen from flask/faerie then boots.
On January 02 2013 14:49 dae wrote: Out of curiosity, running barrier/tp and going chalice first, how often do you actually kill your lane opponent 1v1?
It seems you wouldnt have the damage.
I rarely get kills pre-6 1v1, but almost always force them to back early and have a CS/level lead, which tends to lead to kills in the 7-11 area.
I do get kills if they try to go all in on me, because in that situation Barrier is simply better than Ignite (shields more damage than Ignite causes). But that's at 1350 elo and I'm still getting games where say, the jungler jumps into tower range to finish me off and I barrier and snare him.
The way I play Lux I think is kind of to push the lane real hard, get a CS lead and deny the enemy mid farm, and then gank other lanes with lasers. Which is probably why I prefer the Chalice, it gives you the regen necessary to keep the minion waves at the enemy tower.
Secondly, Lux is a very safe laner with her shield, slow, snare, and ranged farming, meaning you really do not need to get 2 dorans, and can instead go straight for late game items
Why do you think so? What are the mechanics? I dont understand. I usually go 2xHealth, 1xMana + Boots.
Lux has enough range, enough base movespeed, and enough base AA damage, that you are an early game bully. The only enemy mids that can really go toe to toe with you in a 1v1 at level 1-2 I've found are Ziggs and Brand.
Dorans Rings are basically a catch up item. You use them to make up for a weaker early game vs. the enemy mid so that you won't be at a disadvantage. They have good cost efficiency, but they delay your late game items and weaken your mid game in comparison to just rushing late game items.
So basically, you never WANT a Dorans Ring, but there are matchups where you NEED one. Since Lux is so much stronger than almost all other mids early game, Lux doesn't need them and can just skip straight to the big stuff.
On January 02 2013 14:49 dae wrote: Out of curiosity, running barrier/tp and going chalice first, how often do you actually kill your lane opponent 1v1?
It seems you wouldnt have the damage.
I rarely get kills pre-6 1v1, but almost always force them to back early and have a CS/level lead, which tends to lead to kills in the 7-11 area.
I do get kills if they try to go all in on me, because in that situation Barrier is simply better than Ignite (shields more damage than Ignite causes). But that's at 1350 elo and I'm still getting games where say, the jungler jumps into tower range to finish me off and I barrier and snare him.
The way I play Lux I think is kind of to push the lane real hard, get a CS lead and deny the enemy mid farm, and then gank other lanes with lasers. Which is probably why I prefer the Chalice, it gives you the regen necessary to keep the minion waves at the enemy tower.
Even though barrier is "better" then ignite technically, in all 1v1 situations, I would still rather have ignite.
Lux's damage is very cooldown oriented and she basically has her q->e->r with autos combo. If that combo doesnt kill them, or at least get them low enough to auto them down, you pretty much have to run.
Ignite gives a much larger range of health that you can effectively kill people from in a 1v1 scenario, and as such is favored by me.
Barrier is better when they have like a nocturne that you need to be able to survive ulting on you, and probably in teamfights too.
Secondly, Lux is a very safe laner with her shield, slow, snare, and ranged farming, meaning you really do not need to get 2 dorans, and can instead go straight for late game items
Why do you think so? What are the mechanics? I dont understand. I usually go 2xHealth, 1xMana + Boots.
Lux has enough range, enough base movespeed, and enough base AA damage, that you are an early game bully. The only enemy mids that can really go toe to toe with you in a 1v1 at level 1-2 I've found are Ziggs and Brand.
Dorans Rings are basically a catch up item. You use them to make up for a weaker early game vs. the enemy mid so that you won't be at a disadvantage. They have good cost efficiency, but they delay your late game items and weaken your mid game in comparison to just rushing late game items.
So basically, you never WANT a Dorans Ring, but there are matchups where you NEED one. Since Lux is so much stronger than almost all other mids early game, Lux doesn't need them and can just skip straight to the big stuff.
I don't agree with your logic. You should itemize a champion in a way so you have an optimal build when that champion is at his strongest phase. Lux shines through early/midgame, so a couple of dorans are extremely efficient on her.
Secondly, Lux is a very safe laner with her shield, slow, snare, and ranged farming, meaning you really do not need to get 2 dorans, and can instead go straight for late game items
Why do you think so? What are the mechanics? I dont understand. I usually go 2xHealth, 1xMana + Boots.
Lux has enough range, enough base movespeed, and enough base AA damage, that you are an early game bully. The only enemy mids that can really go toe to toe with you in a 1v1 at level 1-2 I've found are Ziggs and Brand.
Dorans Rings are basically a catch up item. You use them to make up for a weaker early game vs. the enemy mid so that you won't be at a disadvantage. They have good cost efficiency, but they delay your late game items and weaken your mid game in comparison to just rushing late game items.
So basically, you never WANT a Dorans Ring, but there are matchups where you NEED one. Since Lux is so much stronger than almost all other mids early game, Lux doesn't need them and can just skip straight to the big stuff.
I don't agree with your logic. You should itemize a champion in a way so you have an optimal build when that champion is at his strongest phase. Lux shines through early/midgame, so a couple of dorans are extremely efficient on her.
Except Lux's lategame is amazing with her shield and ability to chunk entire teams, as well as if you catch someone with q whos squishy its suddenly a 4v5...
Dorans don't help Lux's early game, because they aren't super efficient for AP. They're efficient defensively, and Lux doesn't need any items to be safe in the early game.
Barrier is way better than Ignite in teamfights. I used to use Ignite on Lux for a while, and found myself once it got to late game just not using it anymore. Barrier is amazing late game when the enemy bruiser or whatever tries to dive you.
Whoever suggested barrier on Lux, you sir, are a genius. Works really well, baited the enemy team into all dying trying to dive me haha. Never really died even with people on top of me. :>
Let's say you're running Ignite and your opponent is running Barrier.
You've already said that Barrier is better for lategame teamfights. It is! It so is.
So early game at 1-6, you try to kill your opponent. They use Barrier, which more or less counteracts your Ignite. The two cancel each other out, essentially, leaving you neutral. They have the same cooldown, so every time you Ignite them, they can Barrier to cancel it out.
This will continue until you get to the teamfight stage, where Barrier is better.
This assessment is of course matchup dependant, but as a general rule, that's my logic.
I wonder how long it will be before the mid meta is for both mids to take Barrier, at which point 1v1 kills will probably just altogether stop happening if skill levels are equal.
On January 04 2013 09:45 Ketara wrote: Let me try to sell Barrier to you, dae.
Let's say you're running Ignite and your opponent is running Barrier.
You've already said that Barrier is better for lategame teamfights. It is! It so is.
So early game at 1-6, you try to kill your opponent. They use Barrier, which more or less counteracts your Ignite. The two cancel each other out, essentially, leaving you neutral. They have the same cooldown, so every time you Ignite them, they can Barrier to cancel it out.
This will continue until you get to the teamfight stage, where Barrier is better.
This assessment is of course matchup dependant, but as a general rule, that's my logic.
I wonder how long it will be before the mid meta is for both mids to take Barrier, at which point 1v1 kills will probably just altogether stop happening if skill levels are equal.
You're missing a few key things:
1. Ignite is better when you're ganking or if your teammate is ganking your lane. In such situations, Barrier doesn't help you at all, while Ignite might well secure the kill.
2. Ignite's heal reduction. Ignite is noticeably better against champs like Fiddlesticks who rely on sustain.
3. Barrier can be baited, leaving you without it when the opponent actually unloads their burst on you.
On January 04 2013 09:45 Ketara wrote: Let me try to sell Barrier to you, dae.
Let's say you're running Ignite and your opponent is running Barrier.
You've already said that Barrier is better for lategame teamfights. It is! It so is.
So early game at 1-6, you try to kill your opponent. They use Barrier, which more or less counteracts your Ignite. The two cancel each other out, essentially, leaving you neutral. They have the same cooldown, so every time you Ignite them, they can Barrier to cancel it out.
This will continue until you get to the teamfight stage, where Barrier is better.
This assessment is of course matchup dependant, but as a general rule, that's my logic.
I wonder how long it will be before the mid meta is for both mids to take Barrier, at which point 1v1 kills will probably just altogether stop happening if skill levels are equal.
Except no one really runs barrier mid so its Ignite vs ignite rather then barrier vs ignite. If you play right on lux you really shouldnt need barrier to survive while ignite in alot of cases gets you the kill while barrier might end up killing you/both get away, as alot of other mids have more sustained damage and lower cooldowns then lux.
Also ignite gives you 5 ap/ad which is a nice edge for last hitting/one shotting ranged/1v1's
So, I watched some FroggenLux, and this is the build he's going.
Tear of the Goddess -> Morello's -> Boots -> Deathcap -> Voidstaff
Finish Archangel when you're at 750 stacks, obvs
I tried it and it really didn't feel smooth at all. I felt very vulnerable at around the level 6-9 area where all I had was a Tear and parts of Morellos. Game ended at about 32 minutes and I was at 600/750 on the Tear, which feels real slow to me. But Froggen plays ultra conservative early game with Lux, he uses every ult on a minion wave and just farms at the tower. Seraph / Morello / Dcap / Voidstaff / 5th item may well be a better ultra late game build.
On January 23 2013 20:15 Sufficiency wrote: I am not convinced that Tear is good. She doesn't really rely on a big mana pool and Tear is hard to build on Lux.
Me neither. If I get denied first blue I might consider picking up a chalice, but really 1 dorans+codex is enough mana regen normally to stay fairly high on mana if you aren't staying in lane forever. Also if I'm getting dived I'd much rather have zhonya's in teamfights because 99% of the time I'll have spent all my offensive cds already. Better to just invuln for the period of time until they come back up.
A fully stacked Seraphs is without question better for damage than other items, it has the most base AP on it of any single item.
But it takes so long to get there on Lux, and in early game the Tear just feels like wasted gold, it doesn't give you enough regen by itself and it has no other stats on it.
I don't think I'd advise taking the tear unless you're very confident that the way you're going to play is to stay super safe until level 18.
I tried a DFG rush, not sure I like it. The early Fiendish Codex first seems very strong, but after that jumping to DFG seems kinda meh. The active and CDR are nice, but you're getting CDR from the Codex and the active is kind of hard to work into Lux's combo unless you do it point blank, and DFG is expensive.
The advantage to the early DFG would be that then you can get a second Fiendish Codex, because they're awesome.
On February 02 2013 07:16 Ketara wrote: So, new patch.
I tried a DFG rush, not sure I like it. The early Fiendish Codex first seems very strong, but after that jumping to DFG seems kinda meh. The active and CDR are nice, but you're getting CDR from the Codex and the active is kind of hard to work into Lux's combo unless you do it point blank, and DFG is expensive.
The advantage to the early DFG would be that then you can get a second Fiendish Codex, because they're awesome.
Thoughts?
I was under the impression that people avoided DFG on Lux because it makes her move closer to the fight, inside of l337 sniper 420 360 degree no scope range.
On February 02 2013 07:44 Ketara wrote: Exactly. But Fiendish Codex is sooooooooooooo goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood now, and DFG has 120 AP and 15% CDR and builds off of it.
I think I'm going to lean towards Fiendish Codex, then Deathcap, though. Needs moar testing.
2nd fiendish codex early would be decent, kinda slot inefficient though. if i did that i would have flask/morellos/void/codex/ward, leaving only 1 spot to build deathcap, which would work i guess.
33% cdr with just morellos/codex seems really good though.
Also, athenes is a decent choice to just farm with, as its pretty cheap and gives you alot of mana/safety now.
If i was going pure passive i might go athenes instead of tear
On February 02 2013 08:12 Ketara wrote: I am trying just building chalice at this point and upgrading it to athenes for 5th item.
Chalice -> Fiendish Codex -> Big item? -> Big item? -> Big item? -> Big item? -> Finish Athenes
If you havn't tried it already, and want to play very aggressive, starting flask-3 to void then morellos, is very very strong core, but it has problems farming (almsot always almost 1 shot ranged creeps), doesn't get boots until late, and is somewhat blue dependent/mana managment harder.
Also when you do this getting many wards is pretty much needed to catch people.
However, you can start 1 shotting people or near that really really fast. (at void if you can auto)
Also, TP>ignite except for specific lanes where you need ignite to stop the other laner from abusing you (alot of melee, kat)
I always find that lux doesnt need chalice unless you are really playing passive.
1st item is either large rod or a lucky pick, depending on the lane, into either a combo of big items because once you get going its hard to stop, or a whole bunch of 2k gold items, like void/morello's.,,
On February 03 2013 01:46 Ketara wrote: So, after playing a bunch of games yesterday, this is what I'm looking at.
Chalice -> Fiendish Codex -> Deathcap -> Finish Athenes -> Second Fiendish Codex OR Void Staff -> After both, Seekers Armguard -> Finish Zhonyas or DFG as needed.
Boots whenever you start roaming.
Against an AD mid, get Seekers Armguard right after Chalice, otherwise same build.
Thoughts on this?
Edit: Updated the guide for the new patch btw.
Currently I'm still preferring tear> challice and morellos>athenes, as it ultimatly makes your lategame alot stronger.
Tear seems to be more mana then you will ever need, but that might just be because I've been running 0 mp5 items for a long time (also run flat mp5 yellows, and the 3 mp5 from util).
On February 03 2013 07:26 Ketara wrote: Always get a flask, rush Chalice. Never have enough mana till Athenes, unless I have blue buff and then I have too much mana.
It might just be that I'm getting more consistant/constant blues, idk.
Flask 3 pots -> tear -> void -> morellos -> archmages ->deathcap -> glass/dfg. (sometimes just get blasting+kages instead of sitting on 300+ gold when I back, if i can't finish void)
Boots when you have a good gold amount, or need the movespeed (often don't get until after arch)
Have more mana, makes farming easier.
I think archmages for 2k is better ap then deathcap for 3.2k, not sure, but really feels like it.
void/morellos core for amazing burst + cdr
Flask start like always
39/8/46 over 4 games with it, 3 wins 1 loss.
Always have ward space until you need to get blasting for arch, and can just sit on wards for the 2k if needed.
Why tear? She stacks it SO SLOWLY. That much weakness early seems like you'll completely miss Lux's powerful period (11~16, ~20-35 min mark) because you're still working on stacking tear at 30+ mins.
On February 03 2013 15:58 sylverfyre wrote: Why tear? She stacks it SO SLOWLY.
Builds into archmages, which has a shitton of ap for cheap on it.
Solves all her mana problems, and is cheap.
Chalice is also cheap, and also solves her mana problems, and 2k mana on AA staff really isn't that spectacular only 120 AP when you aren't building other max mana items. You shouldn't be building more than 1 mana item on Lux. I could see ONLY morello's for your mana. Or only grail. You want that AP / CDR build, dont fuck around with a mana item that doesn't make sense.
Tear won't be stacked til like 35 minutes on Lux... that's so absurdly bad it's not even funny. You've missed your powerful section of the game and now everyone has a friggin warmogs so you're relatively weak. You want to build to your midgame power spike. Once everyone has a warmogs, you are less powerful - you can't keep up with the HP stacking on even farm. Liandry doesn't work well for you, DFG is short range and thus risky to use but can be good.
On February 03 2013 15:58 sylverfyre wrote: Why tear? She stacks it SO SLOWLY.
Builds into archmages, which has a shitton of ap for cheap on it.
Solves all her mana problems, and is cheap.
Chalice is also cheap, and also solves her mana problems, and 2k mana on AA staff really isn't that spectacular only 120 AP when you aren't building other max mana items. You shouldn't be building more than 1 mana item on Lux. I could see ONLY morello's for your mana. Or only grail. You want that AP / CDR build, dont fuck around with a mana item that doesn't make sense.
Tear won't be stacked til like 35 minutes on Lux... that's so absurdly bad it's not even funny. You've missed your powerful section of the game and now everyone has a friggin warmogs so you're relatively weak. You want to build to your midgame power spike. Once everyone has a warmogs, you are less powerful - you can't keep up with the HP stacking on even farm. Liandry doesn't work well for you, DFG is short range and thus risky to use but can be good.
I dont care that tear doesn't get stacked till 30ish min.
I get tear since its cheap, has enough mana on it to make me comfy if i dont have access to blue, and builds into an item that has the most ap/gold on it in the game (besides deathcap).
Seraphs is amazing for lategame.
I see you suggesting chalice, what are you going to even build it into? An athenes which is just a worse version of morellos for more gold and cripple any lategame build?
Or your just going to sit on it, which means its pretty much wasted gold burst wise.
My build gets the tear early, then rushes void/morellos for the huge power spike that it gives you, and at that point with tear/void/morellos best item to get for burst is arch, then deathcap, then dfg/glass.
Also, morellos isn't enough mana by itself.
Challice is just a bad item on lux in my opinion
Tear is only 700 gold and it leads to a second and third power spike after archs is done and after deathcap is done (330ish ap, and 550ish ap)
Also, what elo are you sylver, out of curiosity?
Also, if you have a better build, feel free to suggest it, instead of just telling me that tear is awful and never should be got on Lux.
Tear/Morellos is obviously a viable build. It's what Froggen and other pro Lux's appear to be doing.
That's why I'm wondering how dae is playing different from me, because Chalice gives more mana than Tear, but with just a chalice and no blue buff I am constantly out of mana in fights. The Athenes just feels mandatory to me to even play the champion.
That's why I want to see some replays, I am curioso!
Also, for the record, one of the things I like about Athenes is the 40 MR. Since I run Barrier and HP/level seals standard, late game I've got 2.1k HP, my shield and barrier, and that 40 MR is giving a lot of effective health.
I think DFG is actually giving more damage than Archangel. It's the same APish (120 or so), more expensive, but the active late game lets you snipe people you barely can't kill. If your ult is down Q -> DFG -> E -> auto -> detonate -> auto is a pretty good combo too.
The issue is DFG is so expensive and you don't want to rush it on her, but Fiendish Codex so good, and you can sit on one for a while.
I usually run chalice into deathcap into lichbane into athenes on her these days. Having that massive AP combo and big shield is really what makes her strong nowadays with less resist stacking. she's one of the few decently safe nuker AP carries left.
Also running tear/morello and abusing flask or even mana pots if I want to start faery charm because I want a ward early. Running mp5 yellows too. Tear takes a long time to charge but account for that and spam shield/q when you have your blue buff and you'll charge it a lot faster.
I don't like DFG as a core as it's really against the idea of staying at 50000 range and getting your cooldown from morello seems much better in 90% of the cases. I feel DFG forces you into awkward positioning/spell order when lux gameplay is all about hitting skillshot appropriately.
On February 03 2013 08:40 LeeDawg wrote: been playing some support lux to good effect. sightstone-kages-chalice in no set order. then i get cdr boots, athenes and maybe dcap
I usually don't get cdr boots, since, if the game goes long or if I get some kills, I like to get an athenes (masteries + athenes + eventual shirelias get very close to topping off your cdr). Also, I more or less rush twin shadows (after boots and sightstone), since the slow is so good for letting you get your q off.
I've found that although morellos gives you a bit more power you have to be a little more conscious of mana management while when going athenes you can mindlessly spam spells all day. If you consistently get blue buff, morellos is probably the better option but if your team is behind and you can't get every blue, I feel like athenes lets you stay out longer before having to recall for mana.
been playing some support lux to good effect. sightstone-kages-chalice in no set order. then i get cdr boots, athenes and maybe dcap
if yer gonna go chalice you should go crucible playing support. It is *the* most broken support item in the game, the only issue is it's overkill as far as mana resources go so most people can't justify buying it. Honestly, on a safe support like lux or raka it's worth the cost purely for the active.
I've been playing around with lux builds a lot recently.
Tear opening (AA) feels stronger for lategame (it just gives you so much more AP then morellos and grail give), but then you miss out on the MR from chalice and you still need some source of CDR.
Seeker's Armguard early (after some mana item) seems really good vs those pesky assassin/brusier mids. I usually just sit on it for a while, rushing Zhonyas didn't feel that appealing.
Haven't tried the Morellonomicon + void staff build enough to get a good read on it, but it seemed okay if you can manage without a lot of mana and instaclear, aka you don't have to push/counterpush that hard.
Flask opening (as opposed to fairy charm + pots+ ward) is nice as a long term investment. Though, if you get flask + ward, you don't have that much sustain, and playing without a ward takes away some of your ability to go crazy aggresive early.
What do you guys think about early Haunting Guise + sorcs builds?
not really necessary IMO. The big thing lux needs to be super effective is fast clear, and Mpen doesn't help that much. you win fights in lane over time, and when ganking if your combo is well executed it's usually overkill. Chalice is the most cost efficient item for giving you sustain and map presence, and once you have chalice you basically don't need any other stats other than AP stacking out the wazoo. It's why I love me the Dcap+lichbane combo. Incredible burst and game control. Nobody can hold a lane against you for long without support and if you get an opportunity you can shove down a turret in a single wave. The sheer pressure you exert on the game will do a lot by dragging almost always unsuccessful ganks to mid constantly and stopping their mid from roaming.
The Mpen build might help you snipe people better, but smart opponents won't let you get the chance or will bait you into being overagressive, and it does nothing for your safe game control.
combo timing depends. if you go for an all in snipe attempt, either E to slow followed rapidly by Q. If Q hits then R immediately, run in to pop illumination and then pop your E (or just blow E first if your ult timing was a hair slow).
Sometimes it's better to hit a Q then run up a step, E so the body of the E is behind them and they're on the front edge of it so they have to run through the whole thing to escape, then R. This is tricky early game due to the lower Q duration, but works pretty well for picks late game.
Roa is definitely not necessary, especially if you're going chalice. Lux can reach out and touch teams without ever needing to take much damage. If you're running ignite and feeling like you have to get right into the fight, switch it out for barrier and just troll around in the backlines all day making kills happen or not happen with your utility snare/slow/shield and having ample opportunity to line up good ults.
On February 05 2013 20:49 justiceknight wrote: been trying out lux's combo and i seemed to be doing it wrong, Q>E>R>spam E to detonate, is that correct?
and also itemisation, is ROA needed? heres the route i am going currently, Chalice > ROA > boots > morello > D cap > lichbane
Don't go RoA.
You don't need to be building survivability on Lux. You want all damage all the time.
Thereisnosaurus's combo's are all a little too extravagant. You can Q-E-R-detonate-auto all before the snare wears off. You can even Q-E-R-detonate if your target is the second snare hit if your fingers are fast enough and they're not building tenacity.
If you've got a deathcap and a void staff Q-E-R-detonate should be 100-0ing their carry. You shouldn't even need the auto afterwards.
Thereisnosaurus's combo's are all a little too extravagant. You can Q-E-R-detonate-auto all before the snare wears off. You can even Q-E-R-detonate if your target is the second snare hit if your fingers are fast enough and they're not building tenacity.
Yeah, but you can't fail spectacularly and then complain it's your jungler's fault. give and take man.
On February 05 2013 20:49 justiceknight wrote: been trying out lux's combo and i seemed to be doing it wrong, Q>E>R>spam E to detonate, is that correct?
and also itemisation, is ROA needed? heres the route i am going currently, Chalice > ROA > boots > morello > D cap > lichbane
Don't go RoA.
You don't need to be building survivability on Lux. You want all damage all the time.
Thereisnosaurus's combo's are all a little too extravagant. You can Q-E-R-detonate-auto all before the snare wears off. You can even Q-E-R-detonate if your target is the second snare hit if your fingers are fast enough and they're not building tenacity.
If you've got a deathcap and a void staff Q-E-R-detonate should be 100-0ing their carry. You shouldn't even need the auto afterwards.
Yeah i wouldn't go RoA on Lux unless you are vs an AD in midlane with a gap closer in which the extra survivability/sustain might be needed. Even then Lux can still farm quite well from a distance. I would definitely go RoA vs a dive composition though.
On February 05 2013 20:49 justiceknight wrote: been trying out lux's combo and i seemed to be doing it wrong, Q>E>R>spam E to detonate, is that correct?
and also itemisation, is ROA needed? heres the route i am going currently, Chalice > ROA > boots > morello > D cap > lichbane
Don't go RoA.
You don't need to be building survivability on Lux. You want all damage all the time.
Thereisnosaurus's combo's are all a little too extravagant. You can Q-E-R-detonate-auto all before the snare wears off. You can even Q-E-R-detonate if your target is the second snare hit if your fingers are fast enough and they're not building tenacity.
If you've got a deathcap and a void staff Q-E-R-detonate should be 100-0ing their carry. You shouldn't even need the auto afterwards.
Yeah i wouldn't go RoA on Lux unless you are vs an AD in midlane with a gap closer in which the extra survivability/sustain might be needed. Even then Lux can still farm quite well from a distance. I would definitely go RoA vs a dive composition though.
If you're against an AD, why wouldn't you start cloth and go towards Seeker's Armguard? Zhonya's is more worthy than RoA, I'd imagine.
So I'm hoping that the new patch upping Athenes to 20% CDR will put this Athenes vs Morellonomicon argument to rest, and that Dae will admit that now Athenes is straight up better for Lux than Morellos is.
I'd rather have 40 MR and infinite mana than 15 AP and a crappy anti-healing passive. Unless I'm fighting Tryndamere. Maybe.
On February 14 2013 09:39 Ketara wrote: So I'm hoping that the new patch upping Athenes to 20% CDR will put this Athenes vs Morellonomicon argument to rest, and that Dae will admit that now Athenes is straight up better for Lux than Morellos is.
I'd rather have 40 MR and infinite mana than 15 AP and a crappy anti-healing passive. Unless I'm fighting Tryndamere. Maybe.
With you on that one. The old S2 lux build (Athenes/Deathcap) is now undisputedly the best midgame for her. Now I just need to figure out where you go after that - Maybe Liandries->Void for Stacked Penetration...
On February 05 2013 20:49 justiceknight wrote: been trying out lux's combo and i seemed to be doing it wrong, Q>E>R>spam E to detonate, is that correct?
and also itemisation, is ROA needed? heres the route i am going currently, Chalice > ROA > boots > morello > D cap > lichbane
Don't go RoA.
You don't need to be building survivability on Lux. You want all damage all the time.
Thereisnosaurus's combo's are all a little too extravagant. You can Q-E-R-detonate-auto all before the snare wears off. You can even Q-E-R-detonate if your target is the second snare hit if your fingers are fast enough and they're not building tenacity.
If you've got a deathcap and a void staff Q-E-R-detonate should be 100-0ing their carry. You shouldn't even need the auto afterwards.
Yeah i wouldn't go RoA on Lux unless you are vs an AD in midlane with a gap closer in which the extra survivability/sustain might be needed. Even then Lux can still farm quite well from a distance. I would definitely go RoA vs a dive composition though.
If you're against an AD, why wouldn't you start cloth and go towards Seeker's Armguard? Zhonya's is more worthy than RoA, I'd imagine.
Of course you need to start cloth still. But against an ad mid/dive comp roa is an excellent choice since it makes you tanky. Rushing armguard off the bat isn't as good as it looks on paper. I would still build the zhonya but after the roa.
Now I just need to figure out where you go after that
lichbane all the way sir. Even setting aside the tower pushing-oneshotting deathmachine it makes you into, it's the only AP item other than twin shadows to give that crucial 5% movespeed boost that lets you stay out of the way of the crunch party coming after you a bit longer.
On February 14 2013 09:39 Ketara wrote: So I'm hoping that the new patch upping Athenes to 20% CDR will put this Athenes vs Morellonomicon argument to rest, and that Dae will admit that now Athenes is straight up better for Lux than Morellos is.
I'd rather have 40 MR and infinite mana than 15 AP and a crappy anti-healing passive. Unless I'm fighting Tryndamere. Maybe.
Why get only one?
Mmm challice->morellos->athenes->deathcap, farm all day build. (also, good with fid/hec scumbag junglers taking all blues). (also, 4% attack speed level 1 with w, auto harass all day hmmmm(or ez mode csing))
In all honesty Athenes has gotten quite a few buffs recently, to where its probably almost always better vs ap mids - Before morellos + tear was same cost as athenes, with better ap/lategame, now athenes has gotten way more attractive.
The 200g cheaper, + the added cdr, just make it so much more attractive.
On February 05 2013 20:49 justiceknight wrote: been trying out lux's combo and i seemed to be doing it wrong, Q>E>R>spam E to detonate, is that correct?
and also itemisation, is ROA needed? heres the route i am going currently, Chalice > ROA > boots > morello > D cap > lichbane
Don't go RoA.
You don't need to be building survivability on Lux. You want all damage all the time.
Thereisnosaurus's combo's are all a little too extravagant. You can Q-E-R-detonate-auto all before the snare wears off. You can even Q-E-R-detonate if your target is the second snare hit if your fingers are fast enough and they're not building tenacity.
If you've got a deathcap and a void staff Q-E-R-detonate should be 100-0ing their carry. You shouldn't even need the auto afterwards.
Yeah i wouldn't go RoA on Lux unless you are vs an AD in midlane with a gap closer in which the extra survivability/sustain might be needed. Even then Lux can still farm quite well from a distance. I would definitely go RoA vs a dive composition though.
If you're against an AD, why wouldn't you start cloth and go towards Seeker's Armguard? Zhonya's is more worthy than RoA, I'd imagine.
Of course you need to start cloth still. But against an ad mid/dive comp roa is an excellent choice since it makes you tanky. Rushing armguard off the bat isn't as good as it looks on paper. I would still build the zhonya but after the roa.
Please don't build RoA on Lux, resists + cdr are way better defensive stats for her, with her shield and snare.
Exception would be vs something stupid like noct building damage, where its literally impossible to stop him getting on you, and surviving once hes on you until team can kill him is needed.
Now I just need to figure out where you go after that
lichbane all the way sir. Even setting aside the tower pushing-oneshotting deathmachine it makes you into, it's the only AP item other than twin shadows to give that crucial 5% movespeed boost that lets you stay out of the way of the crunch party coming after you a bit longer.
Right - I havent been getting this item nearly as much as I should be - I really cant be complaining about Lux's seeming lack of damage when a solution is right there. Ms is also really underrated too, because its so good against skillshots and brusiers.
I guess what I was really asking though is how I could use the liandries now that its been buffed. Of course I said that before I finished rereading the guide here, so now Im considering whether to get it or dfg now.
My only issue with lux is that she has no damage lategame/against tanky teams (I feel shes irelevant when they stack health); so I want a build that maximizes her effectiveness against them.
You go from saying that Morellos is plenty of mana regen and you don't want Athenes because it doesn't do enough damage, to saying that you should get Athenes AND Morellos, when it's giving you even more mana regen, taking you over the CDR cap, and does much less damage than other item setups.
I could see it if you had some ranked team strategy that involved Lux never getting blue buff, but otherwise, what?
I just get Athenes and a second Fiendish Codex and sit on it. 32-34% CDR is fine, it still drops your ult to under 30 seconds, and when you start chugging blue elixirs you go over 40% anyway.
Athenes->Deathcap->Void Staff->Fiendish Codex/Seekers Armguard->Finish Zhonyas or DFG as needed is the build I'm doing now.
As for Lich Bane, it's good, but I think DFG is better now.
DFG gives you: 1 - More AP 2 - The active is similar to a Lich Bane proc but with a longer range, and teamfights are typically over by the time you get more than 1 lich bane proc to have an affect on the fight outcome. 3 - The ability to hit 40% CDR without blue buff 4 - A much more attractive build path since Fiendish Codex is so hilariously cost efficient right now
DFG gives you: 1 - More AP 2 - The active is similar to a Lich Bane proc but with a longer range, and teamfights are typically over by the time you get more than 1 lich bane proc to have an affect on the fight outcome. 3 - The ability to hit 40% CDR without blue buff 4 - A much more attractive build path since Fiendish Codex is so hilariously cost efficient right now
Seems logical. Ill try that build and see how effective it is. Thats a Q-E-DFG-Ult/popE combo?
Also whereabouts do you think Liandries fits into that build? I feel with all this health stacking that its an important item to have sometimes.
DFG gives you: 1 - More AP 2 - The active is similar to a Lich Bane proc but with a longer range, and teamfights are typically over by the time you get more than 1 lich bane proc to have an affect on the fight outcome. 3 - The ability to hit 40% CDR without blue buff 4 - A much more attractive build path since Fiendish Codex is so hilariously cost efficient right now
Seems logical. Ill try that build and see how effective it is. Thats a Q-E-DFG-Ult/popE combo?
Also whereabouts do you think Liandries fits into that build? I feel with all this health stacking that its an important item to have sometimes.
I don't use the DFG active in any sort of combo at all. Just save it in case somebody is on you and you need to chunk his health down.
You can use one combo with your ult and a second Q>DFG>E combo later. By your third combo in the fight your ult is back up.
DFG gives you: 1 - More AP 2 - The active is similar to a Lich Bane proc but with a longer range, and teamfights are typically over by the time you get more than 1 lich bane proc to have an affect on the fight outcome. 3 - The ability to hit 40% CDR without blue buff 4 - A much more attractive build path since Fiendish Codex is so hilariously cost efficient right now
Seems logical. Ill try that build and see how effective it is. Thats a Q-E-DFG-Ult/popE combo?
Also whereabouts do you think Liandries fits into that build? I feel with all this health stacking that its an important item to have sometimes.
I don't use the DFG active in any sort of combo at all. Just save it in case somebody is on you and you need to chunk his health down.
You can use one combo with your ult and a second Q>DFG>E combo later. By your third combo in the fight your ult is back up.
So you kind of use it to replace the ult between ults? Never heard of it being used that way before. Interesting 0.o
This article says stuff that is more or less true. Liandry's is a strong item on the right champion. It's a fine article.
The problem with it is he uses Lux as his example, which is WRONG. He specifically says that Liandry is better than Void Staff on Lux, which is NOT true.
Then I had the misfortune of playing a game where somebody on the enemy team was Lux, rushed Liandry's, and when I tried to explain to him after kicking his ass that his build was bad, he cited the Reignofgaming article as proof that his build was good.
It's not good. And I am going to explain why it's not good.
Both of these recent Reignofgaming articles saying that Void Staff outdamages Deathcap and Liandry's outdamages Void Staff look only at math, and do not take into account specific game scenarios.
The reality is for Void Staff vs. Deathcap, that Void Staff does outdamage Deathcap on champions for Lux. However, Deathcap gives you more damage to minions. Critically, it gives you enough AP if you get it fast enough to one shot caster minions with your E. This is very important for Lux, because it allows her to clear much faster and more safely. It allows her to spend more time roaming other lanes, shoving creep waves, it is critical for defending tower sieges, etc. If you don't get the early Deathcap you actually end up missing CS because you get in these positions where your E literally takes creeps to 1-5 hit points and then your minions kill half of them in the time it takes you to autoattack the other half.
But that is not as big of a deal as the whole Liandry's thing. Liandry's is a bad early item for Lux for two reasons.
The first and primary reason is that Liandry burn damage cannot kill people. It is a percentage of their current HP with no minimum amount, meaning that it will never kill the target.
The reason why you get Void Staff on Lux is to ensure that your combo will 100-0 the carry. In a normal game situation you get Deathcap and your mana regen item first. You're then tasked with rushing your Void Staff before or around the same time the other team finishes a Bulwark. Because if they get the Bulwark and you don't have a Void Staff, you can't snipe down their carries as long as they're grouped up. But with the Void Staff you can.
The reality is if you combo somebody, you're going to get them low enough that they aren't going to be in the fight. But in many situations, if you don't have the Void Staff you won't kill them, and with the Void Staff you will. This is what's important. It may be that theoretically Liandry's causes more team damage, but it's not killing their carry, and that's what's important for Lux. Once their carry has been sniped your team can engage 5v4 and kill the rest of their team.
The other issue that I had with the article is that it said that, while Void Staff mathematically does more damage if you do your combo perfectly, you don't do it perfectly and Liandry's realistically ticks for about 5 seconds. This isn't true. The Lux combo is Q E R. The Q snare lasts 2 seconds. If you were waiting 2 seconds between Q and E R the person wouldn't be snared anymore and you could dodge it. Yes you probably aren't chaining the spells perfectly, but Liandry's is ticking for somewhere between 3 and 4 seconds, not 5 seconds. The math in the article is skewed to favor Liandry's, is what I'm saying.
Furthermore, Void Staff increases the damage of your passive procs, while Liandry's does not, which the article fails to mention. It is also better vs. minions.
I'm not saying that Liandry's is a bad item on Lux. It is a fine 5th item. I'm getting DFG as my 5th item these days because I like that with Athenes+DFG+Blue Elixir I can let somebody else on my team take blue buffs. (This is another issue I've had with reignofgaming recently, they used Lux as a good candidate for CDR runes because it's so hard to get 40% CDR on her which is also completely goddamn wrong. I wish I had better mastery options than the tier 1 CDR mastery because I think it's useless post about 11 minutes into the game.) But if you want to get Liandry's as your 4th-5th item that's fine.
But get Deathcap and Void Staff first. They're better, and the reignofgaming article is wrong.
Further complaints about the ROG article: he conflates the Haunting Guise part of Liandry with the Liandry proc part of liandry. 15 MPen works bloody fine for Lux (in low MR cases, it works better than 35% MPen, causing some of his numbers where Liandry outperforms VS on low MR targets), but DOES NOT MEAN you need to get the whole damn item. Lux can build a haunting guise and benefit from it. Liandry is garbage until potentially late game.
He also claims that "only annie bot" can cast spells in extremely quick succession, which is bullshit.
It's especially bullshit because Lux's snare travels slow enough that you can literally have all 3 spells in the combo out before the snare hits, and are often waiting to see if the snare hits before casting your ult.
Early haunting guise is fine. I'm rushing Athenes these days, but a lot of pro Lux players are doing Tear + Haunting Guise as their early items, and that's fine. I feel like the Athenes rush gives you more leeway to be stupid, which is important for me, because I do stupid things.
Both of these recent Reignofgaming articles saying that Void Staff outdamages Deathcap and Liandry's outdamages Void Staff look only at math, and do not take into account specific game scenarios.
[...]
But get Deathcap and Void Staff first. They're better, and the reignofgaming article is wrong.
the beauty/usefulness of statistics isn't in making badass graphs (although they are nice), but trying to sort out relevant data from irrelevant data and bridging the gap between function and computation.
the article and the attached conclusions are made with certain assumptions which are understandable if you go and try to do those computations yourself, but, as you've pointed out, one can assert functional flaws for how those numbers carry out into the game, especially something like liandrys which is very conditional on the situation and not just flat damage you can compare. something worth considering is that the liandrys proc benefits from a certain style of 'spellcasting' -- rather than simply dropping your q/e/r on a single target as fast as possible, you could be spreading your e/q to different targets and be doing a lot more gross damage to the enemy team even though you are less capable of getting a single direct kill. this might be more appropriate in certain team comps or against certain team compositions.
analogous to this would be trying to figure out how valuable a sheen (or lich bane) is on lux. while in THEORY these items can add a fuckton to your damage output (something that for some reason i try to rationalize to myself on pretty much every champion i try to learn ever), to get that damage you need to change how you are casting spells (spreading them out in rhythm with the sheen proc) and be getting a lot closer to enemies to land AAs. similarly the efficacy in which you can ignite lux's passive corresponds to greater value derived from any magic penetration vs. AP since the passive does not scale with AP.
im not trying to disagree with you or disagree with the article or defend one viewpoint or the other, just trying to chime in that i don't really like the idea of saying one thing is always wrong and the other is always right. the thing that bothers me most about your post is that the person in your game reads an article and immediately starts blindly following it. people are way too comfortable with the idea of sticking to hard, unbreakable rules that they don't even understand the purpose for in the first place.
also another thing not really broached is the "buildup". to build a rabadons you need to save up 1600g at one point, whereas a liandrys involves cheaper purchases, as does void staff. since you can't always control when you are shopping this suggests to me that may play a role in why you might build one item in one game and a different one in another.
He crunches numbers and gives you some pretty graph showing the potential damage under some assumptions. At the end it is YOU who need to land the snare and make the plays.... so.....
So I play a little bit of Lux support and I'd like to pick her up as a mid. I understand boots into Athenes is best now, but should I be going for DFG or Rabadon's? With runes+ masteries you hit like 39.9% CDR with Athenes/DFG and it adds a lot of burst-- I'm not number crunching, but 15% max hp + 20% amplified seems like a comparable effect to the extra AP from Rabadon's, albeit to a single target.
On February 22 2013 17:04 ticklishmusic wrote: So I play a little bit of Lux support and I'd like to pick her up as a mid. I understand boots into Athenes is best now, but should I be going for DFG or Rabadon's? With runes+ masteries you hit like 39.9% CDR with Athenes/DFG and it adds a lot of burst-- I'm not number crunching, but 15% max hp + 20% amplified seems like a comparable effect to the extra AP from Rabadon's, albeit to a single target.
Personally, I don't think that DFG is a great item on Lux. The active really doesn't suit her at all. You generally want to keep your distance from people and harass with your E, or land a Q E R combo. You can't really just go up to someone, active with DFG and then guarantee that you'll hit with your Q to land your combo.
On February 22 2013 17:04 ticklishmusic wrote: So I play a little bit of Lux support and I'd like to pick her up as a mid. I understand boots into Athenes is best now, but should I be going for DFG or Rabadon's? With runes+ masteries you hit like 39.9% CDR with Athenes/DFG and it adds a lot of burst-- I'm not number crunching, but 15% max hp + 20% amplified seems like a comparable effect to the extra AP from Rabadon's, albeit to a single target.
Personally, I don't think that DFG is a great item on Lux. The active really doesn't suit her at all. You generally want to keep your distance from people and harass with your E, or land a Q E R combo. You can't really just go up to someone, active with DFG and then guarantee that you'll hit with your Q to land your combo.
yeah. the thing with lux is when you burst its all in one go, you don't have time to re position to get your dfg off. You want to be fishing with your Q for a quick burst when you land one, you probably won't be able to hit your burst after a dfg since you will get jumped being that close or the enemy will just dodge.
On paper its a great item for her apart from the range. The reliance on landing skillshots with it and the risk of being that close, with no escape skills lets enemies jump you or simply run away.
On February 23 2013 01:50 Ketara wrote: Also, if you're doing it right your burst combo will kill them without DFG.
DFG is a fine item, but rushing it is ehhhhh.
I wonder if you could one shot E farm with DFG+Athenes. Probably not. I usually can't with Athenes + NLR + Blasting Wand.
Pew pew laser farm sounds fun. It's so satisfying to laser creep waves.
I guess E one shot levels on caster creep depends on how early you get it since creeps scale up. Athenes + NLR + Blasting Wand is the same AP as DFG + Athenes for cheaper gold though. Getting enough AP to one shot caster creeps without Dcap is hard. You'd have to be really fed to get enough items early enough.
This is why Deathcap first is so critical. Unless you get real fed real quickly, it's entirely likely that if you don't go deathcap first you will NEVER be one shotting creep waves unless you're doing it with a laser.
If you've got something like 5-6 kills at 10 minutes, then doing something like Athenes-Void Staff or Athenes-DFG is much more viable. Typically what I do in that situation though is try to rush Chalice+Deathcap+Void Staff, because then you're one shotting anybody and you can just teamfight and win the game right there.
On February 23 2013 06:12 Ketara wrote: This is why Deathcap first is so critical. Unless you get real fed real quickly, it's entirely likely that if you don't go deathcap first you will NEVER be one shotting creep waves unless you're doing it with a laser.
If you've got something like 5-6 kills at 10 minutes, then doing something like Athenes-Void Staff or Athenes-DFG is much more viable. Typically what I do in that situation though is try to rush Chalice+Deathcap+Void Staff, because then you're one shotting anybody and you can just teamfight and win the game right there.
problem is, if your blue is even slightly contested (jungler behind e.g.) you dont have the mana to oneshot many creepwaves without a regen item either.
I'm kinda torn on what I should build, but if its a farming game I usually go Athenes simply because the mana regen and CDR is worth quite a bit on lux. Yes it means I can't clear quite that fast, but Dcap rush always feels so fragile, no resists, no regen nothing until the item is done.
Anyone else noticed Lux' Q bugging ? I just goes "through", no damage no snare. I had it 2-3 times since patch and once when both teams were spectating during the clean up phase of a teamfight so I'm not imagining things.
On March 03 2013 22:49 komokun wrote: Anyone else noticed Lux' Q bugging ? I just goes "through", no damage no snare. I had it 2-3 times since patch and once when both teams were spectating during the clean up phase of a teamfight so I'm not imagining things.
Had the same thing with Vi Q jamming after the patch, then someone else did same thing (against me) in a duel too, I haven't seen that bug before. Possibly some bugs got through this recent patch, they did change a fair amount of stuff.
Wow, it's been a while since I've been on TL (regular back in the day) and regular at Liquid'poker but since TL got a League section, I figured I could add some insight. I'm not that good, currently Plat V and climbing but
Lux is one of my mains after Kayle gets banned 24/7 and there are a lot of bad item choices on lux.
Athenes first/second core item is a must. This is because Lux's range allows her to poke/harass her spells before an engagement. You need a couple things
1. CDR to make sure your spells are up again once they do engage.
2. Mana regen, since your spells are costly.
Athenes gives you ALOT of both.
After Athenes, you can go rab cap if you're doing well, void staff, zhonyas if you're getting focused. Liandrys is a must nowadays as well, since the meta game is to stack health. Not sure after the Blade of the Ruined King change if this meta shifts, but as of now, liandrys is a very good item on lux.
DFG is a bad bad choice.
This is because DFG range is really close and Lux for no reason should be upfront of anyone. If she is, you need to snare and run away. The CDR is wasted on Lux since blue pot + blue buff + athenes and masteries should give you max CDR anyway and DFG is super super expensive.
Lich bane is better for lux since it works well with her passive but for the same reason, she needs to run up and hit someone which gets her close to people, she needs to keep distance. Imo, there are better choices.
A Pretty much agree on that although I usually chose between Athene's or Morello depending on what's in the other team. 20% CDR + masteries + blue pot puts you at 32-33 cdr withouth blue. I don't understand going codex/DFG on top of that.
I also really like haunting guise when they have a jungle J4/Vi/Xin, but I never really have time to upgrade to liandrys as I find other items more important (usually voidstaff/finishing raba/zhonyas)
The reason why you get the extra codex is so you don't need blue buff late game, and somebody else on the team can take it. Level 18 Lux with an Athenes has no mana issues and is only taking blue buff for CDR. Your teamfight is a lot stronger if your jungler can take the blue buffs at that point, since they haven't had the farm time to get their CDR capped.
If you have Athenes + Blue Elixir + Blue Buff you're wasting more than half of the buffs effect so that you can have a Liandry's instead of a DFG. I'd rather have the DFG and have both myself and my Xin Zhao at 40% CDR. The active is bad on her but it's not useless, and you're not buying it for the active.
Finishing the DFG is your final item and realistically almost never actually happens.
You buy DFG for the active... It costs 3,200 (or something like that) for it's active, not for it's CDR, nor AP and the active simply doesn't synergize well with Lux.
Liandry's is a much better item, as Komokun said above, I definitely pick it up against diving heavy comps, which in today's meta, has a lot of.
Vi, Renekton, Xin, Jarvan, Maokai (even); all these champs are designed to get up close to you and the extra health lets you stay alive.
How are we wasting half the buffs effects? We are utilizing everything of the effects since the CDR is not wasted. There is a cap at 40% CDR, and if we have blue buff which we should often (having a point in the longer blue duration mastery), + masteries, blue elixir and athenes, it gives us 40%. Maybe I misunderstood the question.
Usually my build goes like
Athenes -> Sorc Boots -> Guise (If i'm dying) -> Death cap -> Void staff (Earlier if they have MR) -> Zhonyas
- Late game I have around 750 AP with masteries/runes/elixir.
With Athene buff, I don't think you should ever be getting Morello's over it unless you need the Kage's pick if you're supporting.
It's interesting to me that you're saying that the active on DFG doesn't synergize well with Lux because the range is too short, but Liandry's is good against champions that like to dive you.
According to the wiki, the active on DFG only "costs" 168g, while the passives on Liandry's cost over 1000. You're buying Liandry's for the passives much more than you are DFG.
To be honest, Athene's isn't infinte mana if you spam spells on cooldown for an extended period (long sieges and/or dragged out fights). Unless you have someone who really benefits alot from blue buff, you should get it yourself imo.
Both Liandry's and DFG are decent choices for your last item, I guess it depends on how the game plays out. Liandry's is better defensively obviously, but you don't get that much damage out of the passive since you mostly doing damage in bursts. DFG is quite a bit more AP and the active is pretty good to burst down a diving bruiser plus you can cap CDR without blue.
It also comes down to whether you want to sit on a codex or haunting guise during the build up. Haunting guise is pretty damn good damage for the cost and the buildup for Liandry's is much smoother then DFG.
On March 04 2013 11:21 Ketara wrote: Athenes, blue buff and blue elixir is 50% CDR.
It's interesting to me that you're saying that the active on DFG doesn't synergize well with Lux because the range is too short, but Liandry's is good against champions that like to dive you.
According to the wiki, the active on DFG only "costs" 168g, while the passives on Liandry's cost over 1000. You're buying Liandry's for the passives much more than you are DFG.
Using that cost is literally comparing DFG to a giant stack of amplifying tomes. Don't fool yourself into thinking DFG is cost effective without the activation.
On March 04 2013 11:21 Ketara wrote: Athenes, blue buff and blue elixir is 50% CDR.
It's interesting to me that you're saying that the active on DFG doesn't synergize well with Lux because the range is too short, but Liandry's is good against champions that like to dive you.
According to the wiki, the active on DFG only "costs" 168g, while the passives on Liandry's cost over 1000. You're buying Liandry's for the passives much more than you are DFG.
Using that cost is literally comparing DFG to a giant stack of amplifying tomes. Don't fool yourself into thinking DFG is cost effective without the activation.
DFG is a good lategame statstick if you dont need the defense.
It as as much or more ap on it then any item that isn't deathcap or a stacked AA.
As a 6th item to just finish out your build, regardless of its cost efficiency, or how useless the active is(usually used to do a bit more damage to a tank thats gotten too close), its a good slot efficient item for AP and cdr.
If you need defense usually Hourglass is a better choice though.
On March 04 2013 11:21 Ketara wrote: Athenes, blue buff and blue elixir is 50% CDR.
It's interesting to me that you're saying that the active on DFG doesn't synergize well with Lux because the range is too short, but Liandry's is good against champions that like to dive you.
According to the wiki, the active on DFG only "costs" 168g, while the passives on Liandry's cost over 1000. You're buying Liandry's for the passives much more than you are DFG.
Lux isn't a single target damaging champion. She's used to hurt the entire team as lux's whole skill-base is doing AoE damage. After Liandry's change, you can utilize Liandry's to it's ENTIRE potential rather than using DFG on 1 diving champion when in most likeliness there will be at least two (jungler, toplane). Liandry's also gives you HP, when no other HP item is really good on Lux.
Liandry's Passive is good against every situation where they are stacking HP (Which all diving champions will do) and giving Lux HP is only half the factor in why it's a good item.
HP helps you survive, letting you get that extra shield off/extra damage off, rather than hoping you can do burst down 1 single target.
But the MP from it and your boots + void staff can deter them from stacking MR and if they do, you can do a lot more damage from it. And it builds from a very good early game item (haunting guise).
Lux's main strengths are her range to poke. If you buy DFG, it encourages you to be close to the action, or else it won't be as good as Liandrys, and there will be instances where you go aggressive to proc DFG, and you get cc'ed and caught and destroyed.
Lets do some simple math and see how much damage that Liandry passive is giving you in comparison to DFG's CDR.
We'll assume, for the sake of making math easy on me, that Liandry's 15 mpen is adding about as much damage as the 91 extra AP DFG is giving you. It's not, 91 AP is worth more than 15 mpen, but we can assume this.
We'll also assume that the DFG active is causing about 300 points of damage, to counterbalance the 300 HP that Liandry's gives you. It's not, it's causing more damage than that, but we can still assume this.
Assuming that you get 2 points in CDR and 2 points in Butcher, the DFG active is giving you 8% CDR. So in reality it's increasing your overall damage by 8%.
So, how much damage would Liandry's have to be doing to equal an 8% increase?
You said you had 750 AP with your final build. This means that your laser for example is doing 1083.75 damage to each target. An extra 8% of that would be 86.7 damage.
In order for the Liandry's passive to be doing 86.7 damage, the target would have to have about 1450 HP after being hit by the laser. There's probably some other stuff hitting them too, so we can say they probably have to have at least 2500 HP for the Liandry's proc to be equivalent. Probably more like 3000.
There's probably only one or two people on the enemy team with 3000 or more HP. It seems fairly clear to me that, in a drawn out poking engagement, the 8% CDR is giving you an equivalent or greater damage increase than the Liandry's passive on most targets. Especially since your primary targets will be the carries, and they typically will not have over 2500 HP.
Not to mention this 8% CDR and 91 extra AP is giving you a stronger shield, 8% more shields, 8% more snares, 8% more slows, etc.
And I know you will have a counterargument about how people are often slowed by other sources and doubling Liandry's damage, while I could argue that Lux's primary role in an engagement is not to poke as much as it is to catch and one shot the enemy carry, which Liandry's does not in any way help you with since the passive cannot kill people.
The reality is that they're both decent choices for a final item for Lux. Really there is no perfect sixth item for Lux. What she wants is a second Deathcap, or an item with an active that gives her something like 30% more AP for a 4-6 second window. That item doesn't exist.
So we're left with three less than satisfactory choices for a sixth item. DFG, Liandry's, Lich Bane. Lich Bane is best for pushing down towers, Liandry's is best for poking, DFG is best for burst. Personally, I think DFG is the all around strongest, because it gives you something the others don't by removing your need for blue buff and letting you give it to another team member.
But each has its place, and none of them are bad choices for a final item. That's my point.
On March 05 2013 10:27 Ketara wrote: Lets do some simple math and see how much damage that Liandry passive is giving you in comparison to DFG's CDR.
We'll assume, for the sake of making math easy on me, that Liandry's 15 mpen is adding about as much damage as the 91 extra AP DFG is giving you. It's not, 91 AP is worth more than 15 mpen, but we can assume this.
We'll also assume that the DFG active is causing about 300 points of damage, to counterbalance the 300 HP that Liandry's gives you. It's not, it's causing more damage than that, but we can still assume this.
Assuming that you get 2 points in CDR and 2 points in Butcher, the DFG active is giving you 8% CDR. So in reality it's increasing your overall damage by 8%.
So, how much damage would Liandry's have to be doing to equal an 8% increase?
You said you had 750 AP with your final build. This means that your laser for example is doing 1083.75 damage to each target. An extra 8% of that would be 86.7 damage.
In order for the Liandry's passive to be doing 86.7 damage, the target would have to have about 1450 HP after being hit by the laser. There's probably some other stuff hitting them too, so we can say they probably have to have at least 2500 HP for the Liandry's proc to be equivalent. Probably more like 3000.
There's probably only one or two people on the enemy team with 3000 or more HP. It seems fairly clear to me that, in a drawn out poking engagement, the 8% CDR is giving you an equivalent or greater damage increase than the Liandry's passive on most targets. Especially since your primary targets will be the carries, and they typically will not have over 2500 HP.
Not to mention this 8% CDR and 91 extra AP is giving you a stronger shield, 8% more shields, 8% more snares, 8% more slows, etc.
And I know you will have a counterargument about how people are often slowed by other sources and doubling Liandry's damage, while I could argue that Lux's primary role in an engagement is not to poke as much as it is to catch and one shot the enemy carry, which Liandry's does not in any way help you with since the passive cannot kill people.
The reality is that they're both decent choices for a final item for Lux. Really there is no perfect sixth item for Lux. What she wants is a second Deathcap, or an item with an active that gives her something like 30% more AP for a 4-6 second window. That item doesn't exist.
So we're left with three less than satisfactory choices for a sixth item. DFG, Liandry's, Lich Bane. Lich Bane is best for pushing down towers, Liandry's is best for poking, DFG is best for burst. Personally, I think DFG is the all around strongest, because it gives you something the others don't by removing your need for blue buff and letting you give it to another team member.
But each has its place, and none of them are bad choices for a final item. That's my point.
My head hurts, but why would you assume two points into butcher? This is also assuming you get 0 blue buffs.
Why would you assume dealing 300 more damage is equivalent to 300 HP? It's not...
HP is about sustain, it's about staying alive and using mores spells/doing more dmg and not dying.
By your token, every single character should just stack damage as you think it's equivalent to HP. Completely ludicrous, there is a reason why ADC's opt to buy Warmogs instead of another Blood thirster.
Your also forgetting that MP is calculated after void staff which makes it much better. And in the latest meta, I've had games where everyone is at least 2,500 upwards to 4,500 with Jarvan/Xin/Hec leading the charge and even ADC's opting to get warmogs etc. I argue your primary targets should not be the carries in a late-game situation.
If you can land your skill shots at the carries, then fine go for them. That's completely okay, but in no situation should you risk your positioning in order to kill them. Let your bruisers do their job and assist them with shields if you can. You should be focused on the people jumping you and your ad carry. You should be with your ad carry and landing shields/snares/slows to get them down asap.
If you think her primary role is to down the carries than DFG does nothing to help you in that, except the extra AP and the SOMETIMES extra cdr since you'd be risking yourself Out Of Position if you go in for the proc.
If you wanted AP, you can just go for the Archangel staff which gives you more of it and a really handy shield and fit in a tear earlier in the game.
You're trying to make a point that DFG is better late game choice than Liandrys "overall" or "generally" which is just untrue. They might have their niches in certain games where one MIGHT be better than the other, but overall, Liandrys is pretty much core on lux. You even say yourself that Liandrys is best for poking and that is Lux's Greatest Skill and utility and that's why Liandry's complements her role much better than DFG.
I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR.
On March 05 2013 11:07 Ketara wrote: I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR.
Hmm.. from what I've been reading it seems more like you dont read what he has to say imo. He makes a solid argument that undermines yours pretty well, and you choose not to respond to it..
I think the thing about taking blue buff + liandry's that I like is that you dont need to buy a blue buff, you can get a haunting guise if things are going badly, and you can burst the enemy AD almost as well... Whilst doing a significant amount more sustained damage whilst you wait for the opportunity to hit the enemy AD. Chances are your binds, and maybe some of your E's are hitting the divers, and the liandry's damage will add up against them. Having blue buff allows you to draw fights out a lot longer than you otherwise would because mana isn't an issue (if your team is poking a lot, but not scoring kills, you may run oom with Athene's)
On March 05 2013 11:07 Ketara wrote: I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR.
Hmm.. from what I've been reading it seems more like you dont read what he has to say imo. He makes a solid argument that undermines yours pretty well, and you choose not to respond to it..
The entire point of my argument, which is being ignored, is that the purpose of buying a DFG is so that you can let somebody else on the team get blue buff.
If you want to talk about how Liandry's is providing you more survivability and more damage when poking in a siege, lets talk about how much of an improvement is to have blue buff on your jungle Olaf.
If you think Lux at level 18 with an Athenes has mana regen problems, how about your jungle Olaf in the same situation? What items does he have? You're at 6 items, Olaf probably has a Warmogs and a Locket and a Frozen Mallet, and likely an Aegis because your support was too poor to buy one.
He's got no sustain items at all and only 10% CDR on his items. If you're in a siege he can't be throwing axes to poke because he doesn't have the mana regen to do it. If he has blue buff he can pretty much spam axes on cooldown until the engage happens. If you want to talk about DFG vs Liandry's math and include blue buff into the equation, lets factor that in too. What's doing more poke damage, the Liandry passive or Olaf axes on a 5 second cooldown in addition to you having 90 more AP?
And what's giving you more survivability? 300 HP on Liandry's or Olaf killing the person killing you 20% faster since he can spam Reckless Swing that much more?
And all of the above comes with the impossible assumption that blue buff has a 100% uptime. It doesn't.
League of Legends is a team game. Blue buff does not have to go to the AP carry in every situation all of the time. Literally what is being argued here is that when you already have 32-34% CDR and a 2200 gold sustain item, you would prefer to take the blue buff for 6-8% extra CDR and a ton of unused mana regen over giving it to a teammate that can make use of the entire 20% CDR and all of the regen.
It's stupid, it's selfish, it's not what's best for the team, and that's the viewpoint that is being ignored.
@Ketara: You can't really convert CDR into damage like that. CDR can be completely wasted if you win a fight by oneshotting their ADC in a combo, and it can be close to invaluable if it lets you get off that second snare/shield/ult to totally turn a fight around.
While the tradeoff might be damage for survivability, there is no way you can compare 300 health to 300 damage like that, it just doesn't work that way.
It's also estimate how much damage you will get out of Liandry's, because it differs so much from fight to fight.
It's pretty rare to reach 6 full items in a game, so you don't get that much time to test the builds, but I prefer Liandry's just because of how strong Haunting Guise is as a standalone item. The extra health, ap and Liandry's passive is just a little more slot efficiency really, some icing on the cake.
Haunting Guise can be a decent pickup if you have Dcap and Grail and happen to back with just enough money to get it, but finishing Liandry's before you're on 6 items is a bad decision imo.
If you have more than one AP champion on your team, and you often find yourself in a scenarios where you're both trying to burst the same target, it could be a good idea for atleast one of you to build DFG for the damage amplification.
Edit: There is also Archangel Staff, which is a really good damage item if you're just looking at a 6 item build, but having chalice + tear is a really awkward buildup. Getting AA as a last item without stacking tear takes away a lot of the AP, and you will most likely never get Seraph's Embrace that way either.
I never liked Lich Bane on Lux and because of that I don't have that much experience with it, so I discuss it.
On March 05 2013 11:07 Ketara wrote: I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR.
Hmm.. from what I've been reading it seems more like you dont read what he has to say imo. He makes a solid argument that undermines yours pretty well, and you choose not to respond to it..
The entire point of my argument, which is being ignored, is that the purpose of buying a DFG is so that you can let somebody else on the team get blue buff.
If you want to talk about how Liandry's is providing you more survivability and more damage when poking in a siege, lets talk about how much of an improvement is to have blue buff on your jungle Olaf.
If you think Lux at level 18 with an Athenes has mana regen problems, how about your jungle Olaf in the same situation? What items does he have? You're at 6 items, Olaf probably has a Warmogs and a Locket and a Frozen Mallet, and likely an Aegis because your support was too poor to buy one.
He's got no sustain items at all and only 10% CDR on his items. If you're in a siege he can't be throwing axes to poke because he doesn't have the mana regen to do it. If he has blue buff he can pretty much spam axes on cooldown until the engage happens. If you want to talk about DFG vs Liandry's math and include blue buff into the equation, lets factor that in too. What's doing more poke damage, the Liandry passive or Olaf axes on a 5 second cooldown in addition to you having 90 more AP?
And what's giving you more survivability? 300 HP on Liandry's or Olaf killing the person killing you 20% faster since he can spam Reckless Swing that much more?
And all of the above comes with the impossible assumption that blue buff has a 100% uptime. It doesn't.
League of Legends is a team game. Blue buff does not have to go to the AP carry in every situation all of the time. Literally what is being argued here is that when you already have 32-34% CDR and a 2200 gold sustain item, you would prefer to take the blue buff for 6-8% extra CDR and a ton of unused mana regen over giving it to a teammate that can make use of the entire 20% CDR and all of the regen.
It's stupid, it's selfish, it's not what's best for the team, and that's the viewpoint that is being ignored.
All of what you say is completely true and makes a lot of sense - but you also only consider the one scenario, your jungler being Olaf. What if you jungle was Lee Sin? The point here is, it's a common assumption that blue buff will be yours and that your team fights will be (hopefully) based around that buff timing. I don't think anyone would disagree that this is the most common way the game plays out.
But, as you've pointed out, thats an idealised situation, and rarely happens in real games. The buff may be missing for a long time (stolen) you may die shortly after getting it, or you may have someone on your team who can make so much more use from it (Olaf). What I feel you're missing is the argument seems to tend in the direction of a theoretical "this is your 6th item" and those above are arguing that, in the ideal case, Liandry's is the best. This ideal case is unrealistic for most games, as is the case with most idealised situations. Sure, it's rare that you have the buff for the entire teamfight, that its a drawn out poke fest that plays into your liandry's to deal maximise damage to tanks. But, it is also a fairly common situation to be in (It's normal for a mid to take blue etc)
Trying to argue for a theoretical best 6th item with a practical single case example that doesn't relate to the vast majority of cases is silly. Clearly by the time you reach a 6th item in any game it might be a good idea to consider exactly what you and your team needs from that item (Maybe its a morello's for the heal reduction, maybe its a GA for that next big fight...) All 3 of those items discussed (Lich/DFG/Liandry's) have their place and one will never be definitively better for every situation... But in the case explained, I think Liandry's is a better item. Do I always buy it? No. Do I even always get to the choice of a 6th item? No. I don't even build my core in the same order, or have a completely rigid build. But, that's what we're discussing, and for a fairly standard game where they're are several health stacking bruisers and you're receiving blue buff, Liandry's is good, and the benefit of an early guise can be worth while.
TL:DR Think about the situation when you buy your items
League of Legends is a team game. Blue buff does not have to go to the AP carry in every situation all of the time. Literally what is being argued here is that when you already have 32-34% CDR and a 2200 gold sustain item, you would prefer to take the blue buff for 6-8% extra CDR and a ton of unused mana regen over giving it to a teammate that can make use of the entire 20% CDR and all of the regen.
It's stupid, it's selfish, it's not what's best for the team, and that's the viewpoint that is being ignored.
As a jungle/mid main I think you're being excessive on that "It's stupid, it's selfish". But I guess it's difficult to argue about your blue buff allocation strategy that late into the game. It looks like you really like giving that late blue as Lux, in my opinion it's not optimal. You usually either have no blue buff or both depending on who's dominating map control. Also that extra 8% CDR is all about the laser. You don't shoot 8% more Q-W-E whenever they're off cool down as they're situational spells and we're talking about less than 1 sec cooldown on each of them.
About the viewpoint that is being ignored, how many jungler/bruiser can make use of a blue buff in a pokewar ? Olaf, Khazix and Jayce. I haven't played Olaf (he isn't played anymore anyway :c) in a while but Kha and Jayce with muramana can sustain a pokewar much better without running oom than Lux with athene as her only mana regen item. Even for mana hungry jungler like Hecarim lategame blue is not as much of an improvement as early/midgame blue.
When I don't get blue as Lux because a wannabe xj9 jungler hogs blue for the whole game I usually get tear/AA or roa instead of haunting guise. Without a second mana item, I feel like blueless Lux doesn't have enough mana. Either way I don't ever get codex/DFG anymore on Lux. I confess I tryed DFG on many champs since season 3 as I was a big fan (who wasn't) of S2-luckypick/blastingwand-get-it-on-every-ap-pre-nerf-DFG, but it's a really expensive item with that needlessly annoying buildpath so I have been much more selective on which champ I get it on.
Anyway this is so hypothetical, Ketara likes this extra codex, unlike LE Smite Kassadin I guess it defines a playstyle (giving blue buff away) so it's acceptable :3 (jk jk)
EDIT : not refreshing op, Wetty is much more articulate than I am. TLDR - Read wetty post
I think what you guys are arguing about comes down to how you two play Lux differently, as there are multiple different ways to play Lux, and each is better in certain games and certain teamcomps.
First off, theres supportish Lux, who is usually sitting way in the back in teamfights, around shield range from your front line. Her goal is to shield her front line on cd, and spam her skills on pretty much whoever gets in range, no matter how tanky they are. This version of Lux would benefit greatly from a Liandrys, and doesn't really rely on landing clutch skillshots, as hitting tanks that are already in the fight is pretty easy.
Secondly, theres sniper/poker/front line Lux. She sits near the front line before teamfights start, constantly trying to get a pick on a squishy target. She is constantly poking the other team before the fight starts, and builds ALOT of pure damage items so that when she does land a bind on a backline hero, she can turn it into a kill. This Lux is one where the pure AP on DFG, + the cdr to give more opportunity for catchs, would be good.
From my over 150 games of Lux I've played at diamond elo, both of these playstyles work very well. Supportish Lux does amazing when you already have a tanky team, as sitting in the back and letting them soak up the damage while you just whittle the other team down, and make your tank line invulnerable with stupidly strong shields.
However, there are games where your team really only has 1 person that could even remotely be considered a tank, and those are games where you NEED to be in the front trying to catch people. If you try and play supportish Lux in these games, your team ends up melting before you have the time to take out their frontline, so you really need to kill their main damage threats ASAP.
These roles are not set in stone, and you might start a game playing one playstyle and move to the other as the game goes on. Sniper Lux really falls off if the other team only has 1-2 people that you can full combo, and if they have 0 you need teamates that can take advantage of your binds to make it effective at all. Support Lux is always decent, but only really shines when you have a strong frontline. And even supportish Lux can catch and full combo squishies, though it isn't her first priority.
About Blue Buff : Allowing other people on your team to take it, and building to be fully effective even without it, is way better then planning that you will always have it for key fights. Being blue reliant is a weakness that can be exploited heavily by the other team, and often junglers can do amazing things with blue while youd really only use it to farm mid/throw more bindings at their mid hoping to get lucky/the other mid screwing up
Also, I've been going 21/9/0 more and more, and without blue buff mastery, it really doesn't last that long.
TLDR there's more then one very effective way to play Lux, and there's many factors each game to determine which playstyle is best.
Edit: Sniper Lux somewhat relies on snowballing/kills, or the other team building squishy, while supportish Lux can just sit back and farm and be a beast off pretty much pure farm.
If you think Lee Sin can't use blue buff in a teamfight, you've never played Lee Sin. I used Olaf as an example, but in nearly every game when you're at 32-34% CDR, 6 items, level 18 with an Athenes, there's somebody on the team who makes better use of blue buff than you do, Lee Sin included. Most of the time even your support will give more to a teamfight with blue than you will. You ever seen a Sona or a Lulu or a Taric or a Zyra with blue? Even an Ezreal.
I totally agree that Liandry's is an acceptable option, and have said that on numerous occasions. The argument I am trying to make is that DFG is not a "bad, bad item" as was originally stated. I'm also trying to make the argument that because of the CDR, it's the most well rounded option, which is why it's the option listed in the guide.
Kinda surprised we aren't straight up already at 40% CDR well before the 6 item mark...
Morellonomicon+Grail is a pretty nice combination that will let you give up blue buff without going OOM much earlier on. And healing debuffs are looking to be rather important to have right now >_> borkborkbork
IMO those should be two out of your three first items, along with Deathcap.
I think the Morello + Grail build is probably strong in the mid game, but loses a lot of its efficiency late game. At 6 items the mana regen from Morello's isn't very useful, it's not the strongest damage item, and when you get your addiction to blue elixirs you're overcapping your CDR pretty significantly.
But at like level 11-16, it's probably very strong for roaming and ganking.
Why are we discussing 6 item builds anyway? They're always completely situational.
Let's assume Grail/Dcap/Voidstaff/Sorcboots/Zhonya's are unlikely to change (though the order is pretty likely to). There really isn't a lot of wiggle room left in the build anymore. If you got a seraph because you started with a tear, that's your 6th item. If you got a morellonomicon earlier in the game to abuse the never-need-bluebuff, there's your 6th item, maybe you can sell it for a DFG when you're even more stupidly rich. If you need to poke down high-health-stacking beasts, Liandry is pretty much the only choice. If you're not the focus and you just need more raw damage at the cost of safety, you can get a lichbane. Maybe you should be getting a GA or a Warmogs because there's the threat of getting dived by an assassin and Zhonya's isn't enough to stop them. It's a goddamn 6th item. If you can't make a situational judgement about your 6th item, you don't understand your champion.
On March 05 2013 23:53 Ketara wrote: I think the Morello + Grail build is probably strong in the mid game, but loses a lot of its efficiency late game. At 6 items the mana regen from Morello's isn't very useful, it's not the strongest damage item, and when you get your addiction to blue elixirs you're overcapping your CDR pretty significantly.
But at like level 11-16, it's probably very strong for roaming and ganking.
At 6 items just sell Morello for whatever big AP item you want. Having Morello+Grail+Deathcap by level 16 is HUGE, you can bully their entire team out of lane with your siege play. Plus just spam those shields when they engage. Blue buffs 20% cdr is very valuable on almost any champ regardless of the mana regen it gives.
Also being able to cut down their healing in a league full of Botrk, Warmogs, BT is a nice plus.
You could also argue that having Grail+Deathcap+Void Staff by level 16 is huge, though.
I think the Morello + Grail build could work in the right team composition. You'd want a jungler who really likes all those blue buffs, and a team comp that wants to do an elongated mid game poke war.
Saying "Just sell Morello's at 6 items" is a little bit of a simplification. You're still losing out on over 1000 gold, and missing that timing window where finishing the void staff makes you guaranteed to kill their carries with a combo. Not that it's impossible, just not as simple as it sounds.
Morello + Grail is a defensive farming build that shoehorns you into supportish Lux, at least until you are level 16.
Depending on your teamcomp, their teamcomp, etc etc you might be able to get away with not needing to blow up squishies, might not.
40% cdr baseline is THE best defensive build though on Lux, as she is exceedingly hard to kill with it.
Edit: Ultimate lategame just farm through all game build is tear/challice/morelleos/aa/athenes/deathcap/void staff, but this relies on your team not straight up dieing before your 5 items, which rarely happens.
putting my two cents in. as a player who mains lux, i know when lux is weak and when she is strong. She is strong early game because of constant harass that she can put on the enemy champion and zoning. So she would need an item that would support that. I choose dorans ring. Then i try to get kage's to get an even bigger lead that is equal to +40 ap and just snowball with the extra gold that i get so early. then boots, and chalice for systain and depending on how much gold i either get athenes first or sorc shoes. But those 2 will be extremely important. at this point its mid game. at mid game the opponent. lets say akali, would have had a hard time farming because of constant zoning pressure. So she will be late in her build, your athenes is done so even more pressure and lasers would make it even more difficult. you go to either lane to help because of your long range and try to help the team from there. This is where most luxes fail because some scale better than lux. and lux being the champ that is squishy, might die here. but kages and the early mana regen helps her go straight into late game before them. so i get zonyas first because the extra armor and the active makes it so much harder for them to target in a teamfight. then deathcap and depending on how much you are fed, id get a mejais. and finally a void staff. I dont get dfg because the active is useless with lux because its everything lux is not, a close range champ item. i dont use morellos unless its against a yi or a mundo because her burst is enough to 1 shot anyone. the 1 item that i can actually consider using is abyssal because of the mr and the passive that allows her to be tankier vs opponents that have 2 or more ap assassins like diana and akali. liandry's is more of a damage over time item and doesnt have as much burst damage as the others ive mentioned so no. so my build would be doran->kage->boots->chalice->sorc shoes->athenes->zonya->rabadon->void->mejai/abyssal.. but if you really want raw power, zonya, rabadon, athenes, mejai, void, abyssal would have 1055 ap and would 1 shot any champ
putting my two cents in. as a player who mains lux, i know when lux is weak and when she is strong. She is strong early game because of constant harass that she can put on the enemy champion and zoning. So she would need an item that would support that. I choose dorans ring. Then i try to get kage's to get an even bigger lead that is equal to +40 ap and just snowball with the extra gold that i get so early. then boots, and chalice for systain and depending on how much gold i either get athenes first or sorc shoes. But those 2 will be extremely important. at this point its mid game. at mid game the opponent. lets say akali, would have had a hard time farming because of constant zoning pressure. So she will be late in her build, your athenes is done so even more pressure and lasers would make it even more difficult. you go to either lane to help because of your long range and try to help the team from there. This is where most luxes fail because some scale better than lux. and lux being the champ that is squishy, might die here. but kages and the early mana regen helps her go straight into late game before them. so i get zonyas first because the extra armor and the active makes it so much harder for them to target in a teamfight. then deathcap and depending on how much you are fed, id get a mejais. and finally a void staff. I dont get dfg because the active is useless with lux because its everything lux is not, a close range champ item. i dont use morellos unless its against a yi or a mundo because her burst is enough to 1 shot anyone. the 1 item that i can actually consider using is abyssal because of the mr and the passive that allows her to be tankier vs opponents that have 2 or more ap assassins like diana and akali. liandry's is more of a damage over time item and doesnt have as much burst damage as the others ive mentioned so no. so my build would be doran->kage->boots->chalice->sorc shoes->athenes->zonya->rabadon->void->mejai/abyssal.. but if you really want raw power, zonya, rabadon, athenes, mejai, void, abyssal would have 1055 ap and would 1 shot any champ
Why do you suggest getting abyssal on Lux? In my opinion it has very low AP for it's cost, and you really shouldn't be in range to make use of its aura, and there's better options for tankiness (Athenes, Hourglass).
In addition it sounds like you are relying on getting 20 stacks on Mejai's, something that doesn't happen every game, and gets harder once you have the huge "dive me and focus me" sign that is Mejai's (One of the main reasons I dislike getting it is I hate getting dove every teamfight).
The main reason to get morellos is not the passive, but the cheap source of cdr, ap, and a bit of mana regen that comes from an item that builds from a gp10. However, since the Athene buffs, unless you are against an AD mid you should usually get Athenes over Morellos if you are getting one or the other.
Also, going Athenes Hourglass means that you really lack damage, and would have a hard time touching bruisers.
If your wanting to go straight up burst Lux, tear/guise/sorcs/deathcap/void is a pretty good build that alot of the pros use, to maximize their initial impact in a teamfight, as well as having the damage and mana to farm effectively.
Finally, please use paragraphs over a wall of text, as blocks of text are really hard to read.
putting my two cents in. as a player who mains lux, i know when lux is weak and when she is strong. She is strong early game because of constant harass that she can put on the enemy champion and zoning. So she would need an item that would support that. I choose dorans ring. Then i try to get kage's to get an even bigger lead that is equal to +40 ap and just snowball with the extra gold that i get so early. then boots, and chalice for systain and depending on how much gold i either get athenes first or sorc shoes. But those 2 will be extremely important. at this point its mid game. at mid game the opponent. lets say akali, would have had a hard time farming because of constant zoning pressure. So she will be late in her build, your athenes is done so even more pressure and lasers would make it even more difficult. you go to either lane to help because of your long range and try to help the team from there. This is where most luxes fail because some scale better than lux. and lux being the champ that is squishy, might die here. but kages and the early mana regen helps her go straight into late game before them. so i get zonyas first because the extra armor and the active makes it so much harder for them to target in a teamfight. then deathcap and depending on how much you are fed, id get a mejais. and finally a void staff. I dont get dfg because the active is useless with lux because its everything lux is not, a close range champ item. i dont use morellos unless its against a yi or a mundo because her burst is enough to 1 shot anyone. the 1 item that i can actually consider using is abyssal because of the mr and the passive that allows her to be tankier vs opponents that have 2 or more ap assassins like diana and akali. liandry's is more of a damage over time item and doesnt have as much burst damage as the others ive mentioned so no. so my build would be doran->kage->boots->chalice->sorc shoes->athenes->zonya->rabadon->void->mejai/abyssal.. but if you really want raw power, zonya, rabadon, athenes, mejai, void, abyssal would have 1055 ap and would 1 shot any champ
Why do you suggest getting abyssal on Lux? In my opinion it has very low AP for it's cost, and you really shouldn't be in range to make use of its aura, and there's better options for tankiness (Athenes, Hourglass).
In addition it sounds like you are relying on getting 20 stacks on Mejai's, something that doesn't happen every game, and gets harder once you have the huge "dive me and focus me" sign that is Mejai's (One of the main reasons I dislike getting it is I hate getting dove every teamfight).
The main reason to get morellos is not the passive, but the cheap source of cdr, ap, and a bit of mana regen that comes from an item that builds from a gp10. However, since the Athene buffs, unless you are against an AD mid you should usually get Athenes over Morellos if you are getting one or the other.
Also, going Athenes Hourglass means that you really lack damage, and would have a hard time touching bruisers.
If your wanting to go straight up burst Lux, tear/guise/sorcs/deathcap/void is a pretty good build that alot of the pros use, to maximize their initial impact in a teamfight, as well as having the damage and mana to farm effectively.
Finally, please use paragraphs over a wall of text, as blocks of text are really hard to read.
i already have hourglass and athenes on my build. i already mentioned about liandry's and why it shouldn't be lux's items
athenes and hourglass is used for sustain and abyssal is also for sustain because lux is a really squishy champion. the armor and mr would help the survivability in a teamfight as well as the cdr from athenes and magic pen from abyssal in a team fight would allow her to dish out the most damage instead of going pure ap.
athenes already provides enough mana to farm effectively and with the blue buff i feel it is unneccessary for her to have seraphs embrace at all since that item doesnt stack with her passive like ryze or singed.
As I've pointed out in the mejai's/abyssal in my items list, it all depends on the game and sometimes i dont even get mejai's at all but the substitute would be abyssal in my case.
If it's against a "bursty" ap mid, I go chalice > boots1 > grail > sorc shoes > deathcap > voidstaff
If it's against an ad I go tear > kages > boots1 > morellos > sorc shoes > seekers > deathcap > hourglass (sometimes hourglass before deathcap)
If it's against a non-bursty ap mid, I go tear > kages > boots > morellos > sorc > deathcap
If I feel like I'm being overall bullied in lane I do the tear > boots 1 > haunting guise > boots 2 > deathcap build
I didn't mention when to grab AA, but you can basically grab it in wherever as soon as you get your tear maxed, since it's a giant spike of damage, plus the active is amazing.
how do people feel about charm openings? I've been starting double charm + 3 pots and it feels pretty decent against everything, plus then you get to pick up a chalice super cheap
On March 08 2013 16:59 d3_crescentia wrote: how do people feel about charm openings? I've been starting double charm + 3 pots and it feels pretty decent against everything, plus then you get to pick up a chalice super cheap
Its what I've been doing vs pretty much everything.. it's alot of mana, decent hp regen, and just feels like new boots 3 pot.
On March 08 2013 16:59 d3_crescentia wrote: how do people feel about charm openings? I've been starting double charm + 3 pots and it feels pretty decent against everything, plus then you get to pick up a chalice super cheap
I keep forgetting they put a second charm in the build path. End up feeling like a duffus when I've already bought 2 mana pots. ><
chalice + pots + wards has more mana (if you buy 1-2 mana pots), more hp and a ward. And you still can get chalice after first back unless you fucked pretty badly.
especially early when you can't farm everything with Q from a million range a ward gives you such a big advantage.
On March 08 2013 23:29 Ketara wrote: I'm doing flask + 3 pots. Lets you not buy any more potions for the rest of the game, and you can keep the flask for a very long time.
I probably use 20-30 flask charges per game, it's extremely cost efficient.
I did that for a long time, and still do vs some mids but with my current build path (more mana then I'd ever need) getting it solely for the hp pots seems silly, and delays my build for 360 gold.
Edit : should be noted I also don't have the inventory space for it, as i have 5 items + wards sometimes.
Yeah I can see how you'd have item slot problems if you're building tear and morellos.
When you go Athene > Dcap > Void Staff you typically don't sell the flask until after you've finished the void staff, so you're holding on to it for 30+ minutes.
On March 09 2013 03:11 Ketara wrote: Yeah I can see how you'd have item slot problems if you're building tear and morellos.
When you go Athene > Dcap > Void Staff you typically don't sell the flask until after you've finished the void staff, so you're holding on to it for 30+ minutes.
Its not just tear and morellos.
At one point i have challice, morellos, tear, codex, blasting wand, wards at once.
On March 09 2013 03:11 Ketara wrote: Yeah I can see how you'd have item slot problems if you're building tear and morellos.
When you go Athene > Dcap > Void Staff you typically don't sell the flask until after you've finished the void staff, so you're holding on to it for 30+ minutes.
Its not just tear and morellos.
At one point i have challice, morellos, tear, codex, blasting wand, wards at once.
Just dont have item spots >.<
Tear + chalice/grail + morellos is quite a bit of excess mana though. Two of those three items are more then enough.
From my experience in this lane, you're simply not going to kill him in lane without jungler help, and if you try you will probably lose trades. Focus on making it a farm lane and beating him in teamfights.
The only time you really have a straight up advantage on Yi in lane is at level 1. You can run ignite, try to get him low at level 1 and then hit him with Ignite when he goes to do his first meditate at level 2. But if that doesn't work (it often doesn't), you can't play aggressive after that.
So, I have a new strategy vs. AP Yi, that I think is working pretty well. It's the same strat I use against Morgana.
Take teleport, never fight Yi/Morg in lane at all ever, tell your jungler not to gank mid. Just clear, ignore them in lane, and use teleport to out-roam them.
Also use a full per-level runepage (HP/level yellows, AP/level blues, AP/level quints) to help ensure you have a stronger late game.
I think the realization is that Yi has to snowball. He is unbeatable when ahead and useless when behind, so if you never fight him and tell your jungler to never gank mid, there's no possibility of him ever getting kills. You can stay equal on farm with him, but with the teleport you can counter any roaming he does and possibly get some telegank kills yourself.
How is spectral wraith on lux? It gives pretty good ap/gold, mana, and cdr. The spellvamp is a little weird but you end up doing a lot of farming with spells anyway so 20% vamp is ok sustain.
On May 24 2013 02:22 Ketara wrote: So, I have a new strategy vs. AP Yi, that I think is working pretty well. It's the same strat I use against Morgana.
Take teleport, never fight Yi/Morg in lane at all ever, tell your jungler not to gank mid. Just clear, ignore them in lane, and use teleport to out-roam them.
Also use a full per-level runepage (HP/level yellows, AP/level blues, AP/level quints) to help ensure you have a stronger late game.
I think the realization is that Yi has to snowball. He is unbeatable when ahead and useless when behind, so if you never fight him and tell your jungler to never gank mid, there's no possibility of him ever getting kills. You can stay equal on farm with him, but with the teleport you can counter any roaming he does and possibly get some telegank kills yourself.
I don't really understand the point of AP/level blues. Seems like you're just increasing the odds he gets a reset early, which is how Yi tends to get out of control.
Tips for fighting Yi: do your best to ignore him in lane, and keep both sides of the river warded so you have a good idea where he's going. Let your team know he's coming, and follow him as quickly as you can (but at a safe distance). As long as you alert your team to his presence, it's not especially likely he gets any kills. Be really mindful about shielding your team in teamfights, it'll go a long way toward preventing resets.
Spectral Wraith seems like a waste of a slot on Lux. She already gets most of the CDR and mana regen she needs from either grail/morello's, and while spell vamp is nice, its not exactly that great on her.
You're getting the per level blues because you're not going to be fighting Yi at all. All of your interactions with anybody will be outside of the lane, and probably won't even start until after level 6. AP/level blues equal flats at level 7.
On May 24 2013 02:22 Ketara wrote: So, I have a new strategy vs. AP Yi, that I think is working pretty well. It's the same strat I use against Morgana.
Take teleport, never fight Yi/Morg in lane at all ever, tell your jungler not to gank mid. Just clear, ignore them in lane, and use teleport to out-roam them.
Also use a full per-level runepage (HP/level yellows, AP/level blues, AP/level quints) to help ensure you have a stronger late game.
I think the realization is that Yi has to snowball. He is unbeatable when ahead and useless when behind, so if you never fight him and tell your jungler to never gank mid, there's no possibility of him ever getting kills. You can stay equal on farm with him, but with the teleport you can counter any roaming he does and possibly get some telegank kills yourself.
I don't really understand the point of AP/level blues. Seems like you're just increasing the odds he gets a reset early, which is how Yi tends to get out of control.
Tips for fighting Yi: do your best to ignore him in lane, and keep both sides of the river warded so you have a good idea where he's going. Let your team know he's coming, and follow him as quickly as you can (but at a safe distance). As long as you alert your team to his presence, it's not especially likely he gets any kills. Be really mindful about shielding your team in teamfights, it'll go a long way toward preventing resets.
Spectral Wraith seems like a waste of a slot on Lux. She already gets most of the CDR and mana regen she needs from either grail/morello's, and while spell vamp is nice, its not exactly that great on her.
Yeah I'd have to agree with this. It's definitely mandatory to run mr blues vs yi as you will take alpha's early when he goes to hit the caster minion line. The mr will most likely be useful in team fights as well. Spectral wraith is not really a good investment on her due all her spells are multi target thus not getting the full benefits of spellvamp. Athene's would be the wise choice for sure for the extra mr/mana regen and the nice 20% cdr.
Off topic but still about lux, Since they've nerfed her base ms a little has anyone switched to ms quints on her? Or is the earlier AP more essential in lane?
I barely even notice the movement speed decrease. I feel like if you get caught as Lux, it's usually because of Jarvan or Kha'zix or some other obnoxious dash/gapcloser.
My strategy vs AP yi is the same as my strategy vs kass, tell bot lane to 2v1 mid and destroy him while I 1v2 bot lane. Ap yi really sucks at 1v2 lanes since he is very squishy if you have any cc at all and when he q's in to cs he can just be autoed out of lane, and his w has a massive cd at lvl 1. Also, an AP yi without his lichbane/deathcap really is not that scary.
Edit: after playing alot of AP yi I have come to the conclusion that if he has a hard time in lane/can't free farm his impact on the game is minimal compared to a free farm Yi.
On May 30 2013 23:05 Ketara wrote: Yeah, fuck Jarvan.
His mid lane ganks are ridic vs. Lux.
Can't snare him, have to flash to get away if he ults which means his next ult is a guaranteed kill.
Fuck Jarvan.
Im guessing you havn't faced jarvan mid before, its 10000% worse then jarvan jungle.
Also, ad nid/ad tf mid that pretty much go dorans boots hexdrinker is such a stupid lane, you have no chance to kill them and they can walk up and auto you to death.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BTRsc.jpg)
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Flat Magic Penetration![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b0Cl5.png)
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Flash:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9IToF.png)
Barrier:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Uy1Vp.png)
Teleport:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5vXFt.png)
Ignite:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nYFHD.jpg)
Illumination:+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CmDbo.jpg)
Light Binding:+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bnwGi.jpg)
Prismatic Barrier:+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9Gx3P.jpg)
Lucent Singularity:+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LHdvw.jpg)
Final Spark / Finales Funkeln (better name)+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x0npz.gif)
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