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On June 30 2012 16:15 iCanada wrote:
Volibear just strong in general, imo.
I've seen him be successful against like any champion. He wrecks melee champions so hard with good creep control. If Voli pushes the lane he has stupidly good kill potential on everyone at two; picture this, you have two creep waves (10~ creeps) and they only have like 3~ creeps. Other top laner goes to last hit, you auto them then press Q to auto them twice and flip them into the middle of your creeps.... other top laner has two choices 1) get chunked for free by a voli just beating on him with autos and W, or 2) trade back with 10 creeps on Volibears team.
It sounds kinda cheesy, but the only other option (assuming your support loves you and warded your lane/wraiths) is for the other top to push as hard as volibear is, in which case you can get really easy ganks if you buy pinks and counter-ward. Its the same way that singed doesn't just get rolled in every lane, only difference is that Volibear has a slightly harder time pushing the lane in exchange for the fact that he gets like a stupid amount of kill potential and thus snowballs stupidly hard.
Worst come to worst, other top laner successfully survives and is able to farm at tower while you go back and get an item advantage which you use to either zone him indefinitely or kill him with Voli's stupid kill potential. Best case scenario, you get First blood or force him back, making him lose a huge amount of creeps/experience to tower to the point that you just win because you are 2 levels higher and have better stats/skills (and who knows, maybe kill monies too!).
Some of the matchups against ranged champions are kinda rough (Nid, Kayle, Teemo) but Voli's gank assist so strong that you can win these lanes if your jungler gives you an advantage because you have an absurd amount of kill potential and your passive allows you to play rather aggressive (especially against these ranged champs as they dont really have much burst damage) which allows you to snowball pretty hard.
Other thing about Voli is that he scales really well into the late game with little offensive items... just a wits and then like straight HP/tank stats and he is a really strong bruiser with a solid initiate as well.
I might be a touch biased, but I think that Volibear is really really really strong and he should be played more. I rmeember hearing Dyrus say he wanted to play more somewhere, but I dont really recall where.
Yeah it's pretty obnoxious that he can still blow people up late game with just Wriggle's and Wit's for damage because he gets 60% attack speed and 155 damage on hit from his kit. And then he gets an effective 30% extra HP from his passive on top of all those tank items. I don't know what to do for HP though. Items like Aegis and GA and Randuin's are always good, but I hate Mallet as an item, and I always feel like I get Warmog's way too late.
I've taken to trying to auto creeps every few seconds to keep up stacks of Frenzy so I have full stacks already when I trade, but I'm sure that that will just get me camped once I play against some junglers who are halfway decent.
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I've been having a lot of success with Voli in ranked lately, really wonder why he's not seen as much in tournaments.
With jungle Voli I like to start with E and max it first, along with a decent leash, the creep fear really helps in the jungle for those early levels. If you go wolves/blue getting a lvl2 gank is also pretty easy with QE (+flash if you need). I find that with AS reds and a point in W at lvl3 I can just skip the wriggles and build straight into FM then Atmogs into whatever else you need. I've yet to try wits since I dont understand the appeal other than against double AP.
I've given up on lane Voli since I found it hard to trade against someone who took ignite for my passive.
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I really dont think Voli dies to ganks that hard.
Assuming someone comes from behind him he has a 45% movespeed buff while running away as well as atleast a 30% slow. Plus his passive means the other team needs to burn ignite to kill you.
Other thing is you dont need to hard push all the time. Volibear can freeze lanes much earlier and with a much smaller advanatge than most laners because he can just flat out ignore creep damage with his E. Another neat thing is he can take Wraiths by himself at level 1 rather easily assuming he goes E first, you take literally zero damage if you start cloth and just lose a pot if you start boots which is a pretty paltry price to pay for almost three quarters of a level of experience.
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On July 04 2012 00:58 Jojo131 wrote:
I've been having a lot of success with Voli in ranked lately, really wonder why he's not seen as much in tournaments.
With jungle Voli I like to start with E and max it first, along with a decent leash, the creep fear really helps in the jungle for those early levels. If you go wolves/blue getting a lvl2 gank is also pretty easy with QE (+flash if you need). I find that with AS reds and a point in W at lvl3 I can just skip the wriggles and build straight into FM then Atmogs into whatever else you need. I've yet to try wits since I dont understand the appeal other than against double AP.
I've given up on lane Voli since I found it hard to trade against someone who took ignite for my passive.
pretty simple, Voli scales hard off Attack speed because of W and R, so wit's provides MR and attack speed. I would say the same thing about Atmas, I don't get the appeal when you can get heart of gold early and just get a randuin's late. Atmas adds far less damage than wit's for Voli in go time, due to his ultimate. I outlined in the OP why I feel strongly about wriggles, but skipping wriggles is legit in my mind if you replace it with a warmogs so I can agree with you on that, but I just really really like wriggles on Voli.
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Wit's gives AS which enhance your ult's power, for a good price and defensive stats.
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I like to sometimes grab boots of mobility. It makes your ganks terrifying. Fastest bearman
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Voyboy about to play Voli top on stream.
Lane v Morde
Boots3 > Wits rush > HoG > Phage > Spirit Visage > Mallet > Warmogs > Randuins
was not watching the game super close order could be slightly off. went 11-2 before hotshot threw the game and Anivia/Ashe took over.
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If you don't build Ionic Spark on Voli you are doing it wrong. Too much Thunder!
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Just played voli in the jungle using the OP's guide. Went 14-4-13
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i just played jungle veigar and went 14-3-13. viable for sure!
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On July 05 2012 02:37 Terranasaur wrote:
If you don't build Ionic Spark on Voli you are doing it wrong. Too much Thunder!
You know, it's actually really nice for all the same reasons Wits is, and also the HP works nicely with W-active.
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it's not as bad as it is on other champions, and after the upcoming buff, all the stats are good for him, but you run into cost benefit of 6 item slots and midgame items.
Probly best saved for taunting your opponents in those 7-0 at 10 min type games.
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Volibear half off RP until friday.
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Played quite a bit of Volibear recently. Long musings from a really bad player:
I've seen arguments for both offensive and defensive Volibear builds/specs. Some have said that it's best to do something like 21/9/0, get quick bruiser style items (like Phage and Wit's), and then go more for a damage-oriented role than a defensive-oriented one. I respectfully disagree. I think a defensive build focusing on Health and Armor is much more effective. My preferred role is to play semi-initiator or follow up, then charge and focus on the AD, similar to someone like Olaf. While you don't have his perma-Axe-slow or CC negation/defense buff ult, you do have quite a bit of effective health vs sustained damage thanks to your passive, and it's very hard for people to escape you between Q and E.
Additionally, I don't see offensive options (which for Voli is mainly AS) as necessary as defensive options. You have very high sustained dps thanks to W's passive AS boost, your ult, and your base AD being on the higher end (especially since I run Arpen runes and 9/21/0 for the Arpen in offense, so you're doing great damage to squishies). Additionally, you have very high burst with W's active, especially with high health count and if the enemy is low thanks to the execute mechanic. So I like to prioritize Health and CDR alongside whatever defense you think is necessary. SV is a great item, and Randuin's will be amazing come S3 (will be Giant's Belt + Warden's).
Therefore, while many people will come in and tell me I'm wrong, I do like to prioritize him as a tanky disruptor and DPS rather than an AS-focused damage dealer. Especially in solo queue at lower ELOs (where I play), I think the scariest champions (aside from fed Vayne) are tough-to-kill tanky champions who can still dish out pain. A well played Olaf, Mundo, Singed, etc. Voli can stand up with them, but I don't think the way to do that is through Phage/Wit's bruiser style.
This said, I don't know if I'll continue to play him. Perhaps it's my inexperience, but he feels pretty weak against a lot of current top laners, especially those who can harass him and dicatate fights, or those that can ward him off and sustain. My goal in most lanes is to try and farm quickly to get defenses and then become an unstoppable force, a la Singed/Shen. However, without an activate-able sustain mechanic (as passive is unreliable at times), you can't do that as reliably or well as either of them, or other options like Regen Garen (who has his shield, CC reduction, and slow-removal).
He's a strong duelist, for sure, but his weaknesses are many and great. No range to farm/harass with is painful against some laners and suicide against others. No sustain outside of his passive makes him prone to harass, so you either really need to set the tempo yourself or you get shoved out rather hard. And of course, as listed above, there are a lot of champions who do his job (build health, be unkillable, still do damage) better.
I mean, it's not all gloom and doom, of course. I think he's an above average jungler, and will do well with the S3 changes. His ganks can be pretty brutal, as you can contribute both good CC and high damage. With Machete and W passive AS, you'll be able to tear through the jungle at high speeds and be safe thanks to your 3 second fear, and building it into Spirit of the Ancient Golem will be amazing on him. And the lane matchups he does well in, he does REALLY WELL in. Amongst other duelists (i.e. low harass/low sustain laners), he's one of the better ones, and even in hard lane matchups, if you get ahead by better play or jungle help, you can really dominate. But I don't know if his "pros" outweigh his "cons" enough for him to be super successful.
I welcome advice and feedback, of course, these were just my experiences.
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I think he will definitely be better at laning for S3, due to a series of changes that will work in his favour:
- resistance changes make stacking health more viable
- better warmog
- ignite nerf
- freezing lane is harder (harder to shut him down if he is behind)
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Indeed, the new items (and masteries, looking at the defensive tree) will be great on him. I just don't know if they'll be enough to push him ahead of other champions that do his job.
I may consider buying Swifities on him if I buy another Tenacity item like SotAGolem. Slows and CCs just butcher his usefulness, imo.
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to be honest the guide is really outdated at this point.
a) I almost always convert my vamp sceptor into a Zeke's instead of wriggles now
b) I actually spec into 10% mpen instead of arp, because of the usefulness of cdr and the bad interactivity of arp runes
but I mean there's no real point in updating it at the moment esepcially with point a & b changing in the next patch. that being said I still think he needs wits to be a relevant target in a teamfight.
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I rarely get a Vamp Scepter at all. Wriggle's is meh, even in the jungle, and I don't like Zeke's on him. I'd rather put Kindle into SV, and I'm not a fan of making Voli into the aura carrier in the first place.
I'm thinking http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#Ua5Ma2xAsMgd as kind of a base, shuffling points around based on who you're laning against and whether you're jungling or not.
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vamp scepter is kindof a necessity, you can't do extended trades without one.
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EPT
