EPT[Champion] Karma - Page 6
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Morello's has a very odd build path where you want the mana regen but get none of it until the item is done. But it pretty cheap and good, obv especially vs healing. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Liandries seems a very strong pickup as well with your constant harass and slow if there is alot of health going around, after you have established your CDR with athenes and blue or CDR boots even if you cant get blue, , then Dcap or Zhonyas/void A bveil I think would make a good defensive item for her, you can get out of anything if you can survive the burst. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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entropius
United States1046 Posts
On April 03 2013 05:09 sob3k wrote: Well after about 5 games, you need max CDR. No questions. She seems to play really spammy, especially lategame, you just want to firing shit off everywhere reducing that mantra, then using it asap. Liandries seems a very strong pickup as well with your constant harass and slow if there is alot of health going around, after you have established your CDR with athenes and blue or CDR boots even if you cant get blue, , then Dcap or Zhonyas/void A bveil I think would make a good defensive item for her, you can get out of anything if you can survive the burst. Just some math on the effect of CDR. This is theorycraft, and these numbers are not going to correspond to any real situation, but they're an attempt to quantify the CDR synergy people have talked about. Assumptions: --You're level 18 --You're using all your skills on cooldown plus 1 second (probably realistic during the course of a single extended teamfight/poke-duel, since the relevant question is "how likely am I to get to use Mantra twice?" --You're hitting at least one champion with Q 75% of the time, and obviously W hits every time Calculating the Mantra timer assuming this reduction, we get: No CDR: 32.5 seconds 10% CDR: 28.5 seconds 20% CDR: 24.6 seconds 30% CDR: 20.7 seconds 40% CDR: 18.0 seconds If we don't assume the 1 second delay between a skill coming off cooldown and its use, we instead get: 00% CDR: 31.2 seconds 10% CDR: 27.1 seconds 20% CDR: 23.2 seconds 30% CDR: 19.3 seconds 40% CDR: 15.5 seconds | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Trying karma out i feel she may be a stronger top laner than mid. She can abuse the fuck out of melee with the slow and tether them if they try to make any agressive move, plus constant autos which make mantra relentless. I like totally destroyed two dariuses. She deals with the long lane well too, you can easily walk out of ganks with the shield/speed and either mantra q for the massive slow or w to keep your health up and stop one of them. Mid she can get a bit range abused if people are good about not leaving q's open. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 03 2013 07:05 Shikyo wrote: Does her W still proc Muramana 6 times? If so, isn't that core <.< No, it was hotfixed | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Her mid laning is her weakest aspect, but its extremely safe if you want it to be and she supports ganks unbelievably well (speed self, leash, snare, mantra Q, dead as shit). She can escape and survive a ton of stuff. Teamfighting her mantra E is ludicrously good for engage, disengage, and just giving your whole fuckin team a fat shield, the AOE is stupidly big. You should basically always mantra E first in teamfights, as if you don't your E wont do any damage, so after a full rotation you do much less unless you can get 5 people in a full Q or guarantee a great pick. Then I just skirt and peel/ toss constant shit in and auto, you easily get two+ mantras with 40% CDR as you need them. The amount of CC you spray is stupid, if they don't have a ton of gap closers its absolutely brutal. Mantra W is incredibly situational dueling skill, I've used it like 3 times, its good in those though. I have been going 21-0-9 standard caster, R>Q>W>E with one point in E early because mantra bonus scales independant of skill level, so you need all skills. Itemswise doublefairy pots usually chalice boots Athenes Sorcs/CDR boots if I cant get a single goddamn blue Liandries (this is really strong on her, if everyone is squishy then skip) Dcap/Zhonyas depending on if I'm getting dived, I'm gonna try Dcap and Bveil too, which seems like it would be strong Void If I got past void I would get either Bveil or Lichbane depending on situation Its working very well, the main lane combo is spamming Q all the time after chalice, if you see an opening Q if you can, E self for speed, W, snare, MantraQ so you get direct hit and land whole thing and can disengage. If you pay attention to their CD's you can outtrade people quite badly. Latehame remember that hitting people with skills reduces mantra, so spam the shit out of everything. If anyone comes within W range I W them even if they will break it immediately etc. Its worth it (obv not if you are at risk of getting jumped, but you'll probably be fine with shield and Q even for escape). I really wish her Q had like 25 more range...I miss people so much by like a millimeter. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 03 2013 14:54 Shikyo wrote: On the topic of Mantra W, it's incredible at lvl 1. Run to enemy, Mantra W. At lvl 2 with EW it's even better. Karma's early harrass might be some of the best. Q is still better if you can hit them with it, the awkward part o f mantra W is it only heals for 25% missing health, so it heals for like nothing if you are at 75% health. Its only real use is if you need guaranteed damage and dont want to chance missing with Q, or if you are really low in a 1v1, or if you are running from one person and very low. I do still want to try FAT AS(s) TANK KARMA, my new theorycrafted build Max CDR Stack Mogs Spirit Visage Mantra W every CD Wits/Nashors/malady/rageblade for mad autoing reducing mantra CD to 0 result: mad deeps/CC and volibear passive every 8 seconds dude if you get runaans does it count for 3 autos reduction to mantra timer? EDIT: Disclaimer: this build doesn't work at all lol. The thing is if you get any damage then you have too low health so that 25% of missing over 2 seconds isn't enough to save you from just dying, and if you get enough health then you do absolutely nothing and nobody cares if you dont die. You can win lanes with weaker sustain but its pretty shit, and if you end up against nunu or chogath (lol , first lane opponent I faced was nunu who opened consume....fuck you) or something you are fucked. Also getting any AP is just really weak because you dont have time to Q and auto at the same time. Its just not good. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 03 2013 18:57 GolemMadness wrote: I haven't been able to play for a couple of weeks but have been looking forward to trying the new Karma. I checked her stats on Lolking though, and she still has by far the lowest win rate, currently at 36%. Is this really reflective of her new strength? She def doesn't feel weak to me, she feels solid and I have a strong inkling she could be very overpowered in organized play. She does play a bit strangely, took me like 5 games to get the hang of things and isn't a low skill champ at all I would guess her abysmal winrate right after remake is due to a few things: 1. She plays nothing like old karma, old karma players tried this and failed. 2. People bought her and player her badly and lost due to inexperience because she isn't easily abusable, the nub rush effect 3. people tried to play her support, which is weak and not her forte after remake, and also did shittily | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 03 2013 06:00 entropius wrote: Just some math on the effect of CDR. This is theorycraft, and these numbers are not going to correspond to any real situation, but they're an attempt to quantify the CDR synergy people have talked about. Assumptions: --You're level 18 --You're using all your skills on cooldown plus 1 second (probably realistic during the course of a single extended teamfight/poke-duel, since the relevant question is "how likely am I to get to use Mantra twice?" --You're hitting at least one champion with Q 75% of the time, and obviously W hits every time Calculating the Mantra timer assuming this reduction, we get: No CDR: 32.5 seconds 10% CDR: 28.5 seconds 20% CDR: 24.6 seconds 30% CDR: 20.7 seconds 40% CDR: 18.0 seconds If we don't assume the 1 second delay between a skill coming off cooldown and its use, we instead get: 00% CDR: 31.2 seconds 10% CDR: 27.1 seconds 20% CDR: 23.2 seconds 30% CDR: 19.3 seconds 40% CDR: 15.5 seconds Note that the passive affects double should you hit 2 champions with Q. So if you throw your Q into a group and hit 2 or 3 people, it can POTENTIALLY come off cooldown even faster. Still, that's pretty likely that you get to use mantra twice in a fight. Or just use it on Q in a poke war, I guess, and it will likely come back up by the time you need to RE in a blown out fight. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:03 sylverfyre wrote: Note that the passive affects double should you hit 2 champions with Q. So if you throw your Q into a group and hit 2 or 3 people, it can POTENTIALLY come off cooldown even faster. Still, that's pretty likely that you get to use mantra twice in a fight. Or just use it on Q in a poke war, I guess, and it will likely come back up by the time you need to RE in a blown out fight. the wiki says you only get one reduction per spell, doesn't matter how many you hit | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On April 03 2013 16:03 sob3k wrote: Q is still better if you can hit them with it, the awkward part o f mantra W is it only heals for 25% missing health, so it heals for like nothing if you are at 75% health. Its only real use is if you need guaranteed damage and dont want to chance missing with Q, or if you are really low in a 1v1, or if you are running from one person and very low. I do still want to try FAT AS(s) TANK KARMA, my new theorycrafted build Max CDR Stack Mogs Spirit Visage Mantra W every CD Wits/Nashors/malady/rageblade for mad autoing reducing mantra CD to 0 result: mad deeps/CC and volibear passive every 8 seconds dude if you get runaans does it count for 3 autos reduction to mantra timer? EDIT: Disclaimer: this build doesn't work at all lol. The thing is if you get any damage then you have too low health so that 25% of missing over 2 seconds isn't enough to save you from just dying, and if you get enough health then you do absolutely nothing and nobody cares if you dont die. You can win lanes with weaker sustain but its pretty shit, and if you end up against nunu or chogath (lol , first lane opponent I faced was nunu who opened consume....fuck you) or something you are fucked. Also getting any AP is just really weak because you dont have time to Q and auto at the same time. Its just not good. At lvl 1? Mantra Q only deals 85(+.9) damage, the detonation like never hits without W. In fact, I see no reason for them to even get hit by the standard Q at lvl 1. Mantra'd W deals 135(+1.2) at level 1. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
kind of like old karma with the difference that new karma scales additionally with hp (not only with resistances) and her new passive lets her scale better with cdr and less with %ap/resistances. these changes are interesting and probably lets her scale harder with items while making early-mid build paths a bit more flexible. her additional CC makes her just generally more useful. and scales better with more cdr as well. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 04 2013 00:45 -Zoda- wrote: So after trying her top, I figured that there is an obnoxious thing with her: you need at least 3 Qs to clear a wave fast. She needs a lot of AP to oneshot mage creeps, etc... Am I doing it wrong ? Like I should be using mantra'ed E or smth ? Yeah... I've noticed this too. With W and E providing zero waveclear, that's a problem. Mantra-Q would be more effective than Mantra-E for this, though. | ||
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